Topic: Buying ASIC Units in bulk - 1 million USD budget (Read 4428 times)

thats a nice sized budget, 1M. sweet!

Vyclid -Sounds good =). Its a lot more than a million now to invest. We have already spent over 400k in the last week on hardware. You can see it mining on BTC guild #211598 which is the 4th ranked position right now and still adding hardware to it.

BitAddict / ewibit - I am sorry we are not interested in pre orders. My advice is that you sell them as soon as possible to someone that would be willing to buy them. Even a batch 3 Avalon pre order more likely than not is a bad investment at this point.

I can too...
it's only a question of the price

Sure it does - if you were to buy $100,000 worth at $70, that's ~1428 coins; if you buy $100,000 worth at $130, that's ~769 coins. If they end up being worth $10,000 each, then you've ended up with $14.28 million on one hand and $7.69 million on the other. $6.59 million sure does seem like a lot of money to me  

Anyway, I'll get you those projections a bit later. If this is for real, and you're really serious about making a million-dollar entry to Bitcoin, I'd be happy to discuss possible business opportunities. I can get you bought into Bitcoin much cheaper than the way you're doing it, and you can still have the tax benefits of purchasing real goods.

If you're fixed on the mining thing, in fact, I can help you get hardware much more likely to end up turning a significant profit. But we'll start with the projections.

Vycid

Thanks =) I updated my post.

i don't know which rumor mill you feed off... but the mixup was not that they sent 30 chips instead of 10k.

Avalon had indicated earlier that they would send 30 sample chips per 10k chips ordered. The mixup was that they were sending 30 sample chips to per buyer irrespective of order volume. That mixup has been clarified... and attributed to communication problems...

Vycid -

I am not even sure I am bullish on Bitcoin let alone Bitcoin hardware =).  I would love to see you projections. You can email me at [email protected] or just PM me here. More likely than not I am wrong =). I tend to not assume I am right with anything.

I believe that there is a 10% chance that Bitcoin will succeed and a 90% chance it will fail. If it succeeds the gains will be unlike any other investment at values of 10k or even possibly 100k USD per BTC. Then again more than likely you will just lose all your money.

On Avalon: They are behind but soon in the next few months those chips will start hitting and then it takes time to build and all that. I think there is a 60 day to 120 day windows here. Rumor is they only sent 30 chips out instead of 10k to people (update: see post below on this). Today they did send out an update via email though which promising.

On BFL: They are over their head. I don't see them getting all these units out for at least 90 to 120 days if not more.

Bitfury:  I think this is a good bet. I preordered batch 1 units but again 60 to 90 days out.

KNCMiner: Up in the air still on these guys.

What worries me are the people not on the list. Stuff like the Coinlab secret mine and the the massive growth to networking power in the past 10 days that is unaccounted for and real ASIC (non Bitcoin) players getting into this space.

Today the smart move would simply be investing in Bitcoin and not in Bitcoin hardware and definitely don't invest in pre-orders. You probably don't want to keep a lot of hardware either and if you have a lot consider diversifying 50/50 into BTC/hardware.

For me with hardware its +/- 30% bet in the short term with all the BTC that gets made mining it just gets reinvested into more hardware.  I have a lot more confidence in hardware and what it can generate in the next 90 days vs just holding Bitcoin. So the plan is simple get hardware that can get back most of its cost in the next 90 days and make sure you have a pretty good idea what will happen over the next 90 days and all proceeds on the Bitcoin generated to go to buy more hardware for the next 90 day batch.

The bet here is that Bitcoin is going to succeed and at $10,000 or $100,000 a Bitcoin does it matter to much if you paid $70 or $130 for it.

It would seem natural for someone from the plummeting MMORPG virtual currency business to move into a more reliable virtual currency.

Serious question for Yantis: would you share with us why you're bullish on mining to the point of buying a million dollars of hardware?

My projections, based on the tens of millions of dollars worth of hardware currently on preorder, and the exponential curvature of the difficulty rate, suggest that you stand to lose quite a lot of money here (if you'd like to see my projections I'm happy to share).

Do you know something we don't?  




For reference, this is the account that received payments for Avalon chips:

http://blockchain.info/address/1FGAftzSTztFSB8LMwsrdCKTyqGY6zr3sU?offset=0&filter=0

(that's 880,000 chips at 0.282 MH/s each, or 248.16 TH/s, and it doesn't even consider Avalon Batch 2 and Batch 3 that haven't shipped yet)

This is the BFL preorder tracker:

http://bfl.ptz.ro/ (371.49 TH/s, assuming they ever ship)

Current hashrate is a modest ~130 TH/s.

And of course there's always Bitfury/100TH, KncMiner, and ASICMiner, to make things worse.

 

Ownt!

Care to explain your signature, if you've got so many millions?

I can offer you my Avalon B3 pre-order if you're interested.

And a Nobel Prize winner to boot, no doubt. I'll bet you have a 26" long penis as well!

Thats another one added to the ignore list. If you must know, I was selling $m's before I was 18, I've won multiple national awards for entrepreneurship and consulting and I'd walk straight through you if I thought you were anything but a worthless, jealous troll sitting behind a keyboard.

Really? You're confused? Let me refresh your memory: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2385217

You really expect people to take you seriously, when you offer to 'handle their business' when you don't even have a basic understanding of how business works? Come on... How can you even take yourself seriously at this point?

You reckon you can just walk up to somebody who you see has some money, suck his dick a little, tell him how 'generous' he is and hope he'll throw some sugar your way? Better hope you have a nice pair of tits, if that's your plan.

Not related at all to this forum but slightly related to this post, I used to have a high level gnome necromancer on Everquest on the Rodcet Nife server. Undefeated in PvP duels. I was poor, didn't make much plat, but killed everyone who challenged me (plus/minus 6 levels). My idol at that time was Nerhesi (from another server.) I solo'd a lot (as was the practice with most necros / druids).


But that was 10 years ago. I don't play MMORPGs anymore.

... the fuck?

Haha! Yes, this is the 'community organizer' who reckons he can organize a mass refund request for all BFL preorders! Seems like a real solid business partner! A real go-getter! 

That seems a fair price, nice to see you're not trying to bully when commanding the cash as others might be inclined to do.

If you ever need some business doing in the UK then hit me up

That is a pretty good price estimate. Some of the first ones we paid a lot more than we should have and more recent ones we got for less.

We are currently paying $20k USD for Avalon 3 module units or 5k per module if you just have the modules (ie: defective unit etc).
Though we are lowering this price by around $200+ a day as value gets extracted from them at that rate (based on the calculations below).

71000 MH/s, earns 2.28807817 BTC/day ($232.24) on average (0.09533659 BTC/hr) with the current difficulty of 15605632.68129 but in 7 days somewhere between 15% to 25% raise in difficulty.. right now its projected at 18.55% but who knows.. it might pull another one like last week but I doubt it.. my bet is 20%.

Is it fair to estimate that you've paid ~$400k for 17 units = 23.5k per in hand avalon?

Thanks again to everyone who reached out to me. I ended up picking up 17 Avalon units in total - 71 GH/s each  (1.2 TH/s of total mining power) and still have well over half to invest in other stuff.  We physically picked these up most of these to avoid any risks.

I am still interested in your units if the price is really good though more interested in ASIC companies that can deliver. My partner and I are looking to deploy about $250,000 USD per week over the next several months so please reach out if you can deliver and when and what it would take to get first batch delivery.

I just finalized a sale to Mr. Yantis, and he was a pleasure to work with. This guy is for real. He has my full endorsement.

Thought the name looked familar...

Spiral_mind I am sure someone with more tax code knowledge than me can answer that question. I do know for a fact you can write it off.

This is a good firm to contact world wide for any kind of tax advice and planning: http://www.pwc.com/us/en/tax-services/index.jhtml

Well from what I understand if you hold onto the coins for a year before selling then you only pay capital gains tax (15%). If you sell them within a year of getting them then you pay normal income tax.

If you buy them soon, you will potentially be able to turn a large profit in the next bubble and only pay capital gains. With buying mining equipment you will have to wait to get the coins over a long time(potentially never break even at current ASIC prices), and then wait to sell them as well. I would also agree that holding coins for a very long time could be risky. You'll actually have to hold onto the coins for longer though (if you care about taxes and selling at a high point) with a miner than with just buying the coins and selling when they next bubble (probably next year).

I'm not familiar with any way to write off mining equipment on taxes, care to fill me in on that?

That really leaves you with pretty limited market options for your coins. You'd have a lot more flexibility in your profit strategy if you buy them instead of mine them IMO.

With that kind of money you want to throw around why not just buy Avalon chips and pay a engineer to whip you something up from the designs already out there?

Buying hardware would be good if you want to write-off the hardware over a 7 year schedule rather than a single one-time write-off. Guess it depends on how your income flow will be structured.

Spiral_mind = you are right on the Bitcoins. It most likely is a lot smarter to just buy the bitcoins flat out. I personally am betting on a $300+ bitcoin on the low side and $10,000 on the high side and would rather have hardware mining than bitcoins sitting in a wallet. Even it it takes me a year or two to recover my investment. This is a long term 10 year investment for me. Either bitcoin is going to make a lot of money or its going to be worth nothing. There really isn't a middle ground with it.

I am trying to diversify by also doing Litecoin and other scrypt currencies (though not holding my breath on the current batch of alt/scam coins).

Then you have the whole tax thing. Its a lot easier to write off hardware and explain to the IRS what you are doing when you have hardware to show for it than to explain to the IRS a million dollars in Bitcoins. I am not a tax expert and use tax attorneys for all my advice so I might be wrong on this and if so would love to hear so. The advice I am given though is its lower taxes to buy the equipment than to buy bitcoins which could be considered speculative and a much higher tax rate.

Right now you're going to pay such a premium for people's ASICS in hand that it wouldn't even be worth it. Its a box that prints money. They will make you pay more than it likely will ever make considering difficulty increases when all these other ASICS that are being made start hitting the market.

If you had a box that literally printed money how much would you charge someone for it ?

You'd be better off buying Bitcoins directly with that kind of budget.

I'm in, what are we buying and how soon can it be in Denver?

People sell their used hardware for bitcoins then use the bitcoin to upgrade to better hardware. Difficulty is going up and up so you must always have bleeding edge hardware.

Thanks =) Yes. I saw that post and bid on that about 30 minutes before you posted here. I notice you are bidding on it as well.

Though to be completely honest I already contacted him a day or two ago and offered him $30,000 USD for the unit via wire no escrow but he didn't respond (mostly because he probably wants Bitcoin as I find to be the case with most sellers - which I don't 100% get because if you want Bitcoin only then most likely think Bitcoin is going to appreciate in value which means it makes more sense to just keep mining your hardware than to sell it for Bitcoin until your able to physically replace that hardware with better hardware  but that is just my personal opinion).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/sold-221806

So far a lot of PMs on people selling preorders. What I really am looking for is someone selling hardware they have in hand. If you have something in hand and wanting to sell please PM me. I am particularly interested in buying Avalon units.

I knew it!  Sure brings back memories of the good 'ol in-game virtual currency days.

If you need some advice on a portfolio then hit me up in a PM.

yes.. same yantis I used to own a large portion of IGE then I sold it.. then I bought back all of IGE and sold the whole thing off a second time =)

Wait.. Yantis.. did you work for Brock @ IGE?  I worked for TeamVIP and ran MMOFactory before it went capoot.

Talk to Avalon team.  They might do a run for you.

That would be the stein of moggok quest assuming you were a high enough level enchanter.

Which zone in Everquest provided the most plat per hour?

UPDATE 6/9/2013:

Thanks again to everyone who reached out to me. I ended up picking up 17 Avalon units in total - 71 GH/s each  (1.2 TH/s of total mining power) and still have well over half to invest in other stuff.  We physically picked these up most of these to avoid any risks.

I am still interested in your units if the price is really good though more interested in ASIC companies that can deliver. My partner and I are looking to deploy about $250,000 USD per week over the next several months so please reach out if you can deliver and when and what it would take to get first batch delivery.


I am looking to buy hardware in hand (not pre-order) a good example would be today I am paying $XX USD for three module Avalon ASIC unit (68 to 72 GH/s). I feel these are a bit overpriced and with the difficulty going up so fast I won't buy to many at this price but am buying some now.

I am hoping  for a Chinese company that makes ASIC units wants a quick million USD for hardware they have in hand that they are most likely mining with now and don't want to risk the difficulty raises or upcoming ASIC onslaught but will also buy small single unit orders.

I prefer to buy in the USA for small orders but if its a big order (over 250k) I will fly to your country. I have done a lot of business in China and even lived there a while so I have no problem going to the PRC either. So if you are a Chinese supplier and can deliver now even better.

Payment: Will be done via USD wire transfer not BTC. There are several reasons for this:
- Its harder than you think for a US citizen to convert a million dollars into BTC
- Due to current laws I don't have a lot of legal recourse if I pay with Bitcoin vs a national currency.
- For tax purposes its a lot easier to write off a million dollar hardware charge than a million dollar Bitcoin charge.

History: I have done a few buys on the forums: 100 Lancelot units from Black Arrow, 80 USB Block Erupters, and one Avalon batch 3 pre-order paid in full for 14k. The block erupters scale decently well using Raspberry PIs see my post here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2345214 though are to expensive and I am looking for more scale.

I also wanted to point out I did this trade here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2242450

Apart from this I used to sell virtual currency as far back as 1997 with games like Ultima Online, Everquest and World of Warcraft. At one point were were doing over 10 million USD in sales a month before I got out of the space so am no stranger to virtual currencies. More info on Google since its not really related to this post.

You can PM me, email me at [email protected] or skype me at jonyantis or via wechat : yantis