Topic: Buying crypto in USA or canada (Read 148 times)

I'm sorry to say this BitcoinGirl.Club but ... GET YOUR COMMENT OVER HERE[1] (Pic related) 



On a more serious note, and to bring closure to the thread (for now) to whoever comes here looking for a problem similar to yours (both current users and future crypto enthusiasts that aren't still enrolled in this "world"), OP has decided to deal within the forum as per his/her latest reply (on another thread[1]):


I guess that this goes to show that any service that offers something that goes "out of the standard" (sadly that's where we stand atm with crypto/fiat "deals"), you'll eventually be charged extra for it. I guess the volume being traded is one of reasons but I also believe that whoever deals in there knows there's a market for users that don't want to use KYC procedures and they (naturally) want to capitalize on offering those services (for a higher fee of course). I guess that one could create a service that would just gather other BTC/crypto sellers whose main focus would be to sell at a 1:1 rate but I foresee some problems such as :

• People usually running those kind of services aren't doing them just for good faith / karma. They are looking for profit since they are, in fact, facilitating your life in expense of theirs since they were the ones that had to get/buy crypto for you and search for a client;
• These kind of platforms always carry some costs (at least hosting / infrastructure) that someone would have to pay to keep it running. For example if we look at how HodlHodl "finances"" itself (a.k.a charges you for their running operation costs) we get this[2]:
  
  Quote
  How much does it cost to use Hodl Hodl?
  
  There are different trading fee rates available on Hodl Hodl trading platform:
  
      Trading fee of 0.6% will be applied for every new registered user.
      Trading fee of 0.55% will be applied to your referrees that registered on Hodl Hodl with your referral code. You can also permanently decrease your trading fee to this level by referring at least one active trader.
      Trading fee of 0.5% will be applied for every user that has passed verification process.
  
  Every user can see his trading fee rate on his profile page.
  One way to solve these operation costs would be to rely on donations from the users who used this service (similar to the way that Chipmixer operates[3]) but I don't know if it will be sustainable on the long run considering the type of users that would be using this service (again looking for that sweet 1:1 conversion rate).

Then again I might be wrong on some arguments or I'm just lacking vision. Either way, I'm happy to know that you'll be using the services of our own forum (or your friend)! I guess you could lock this thread to prevent unnecessary (necro)bumps in the future?

---

[1]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.58337757
[2]https://hodlhodl.com/pages/faq#how_much_does_it_cost_to_use
[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_what_you_want

You are really helpful and should be getting more merit than you have now. I just dumped all I had to this topic.
There are a lot to read and it's a new world for me. I never cared about fees and things.

Lately I am giving a thought about it. Let me see what my friend decides. Trading in the currency exchange section is a good idea.

Yeah you both were right, I've read more carefully you need to give your KYC in able buy Bitcoin using fiat. In their P2P trades you'll need to create an account with your real name, verify phone number, email and the payment account must be same with the KuCoin account otherwise they'll demand more information [1] At least the personal information are less than other exchanges.

---

[1] https://support.kucoin.plus/hc/en-us/articles/360025302354-Rules-for-Fiat-Transactions

I'd say it's still grey area instead of not allow as you mentioned above, even KuCoin didn't say officially they don't serve USA users but many USA users still use that advantages. It's just a matter of time until SEC will hit KuCoin and force them either follow USA regulations (of course KYC is a must) or stop serve USA users, similar when KuCoin get hitted by Canada securities.

Indeed it's not 100% correct to use KuCoin for USA and Canadian users, but in somewhat perspective it's seems possible.

Mass surveillance and population control is the name of the game for the US government. Can't possible have someone owning or spending money which cannot be traced now, can we!? Land of the free, haha.

This is the ultimate fate of all centralized exchanges. We've seen KuCoin reduce the limit, we've seen Binance absolutely slash their limit, and we've seen almost all other exchanges remove their non-verified accounts or tiers altogether. Government regulations, especially in the US, will soon enough force every centralized exchange to either gather KYC and perform blockchain analysis on all their customers, or to stop serving US customers. I would not recommend anyone sign up to a centralized exchange if they do not want to complete KYC, because chances are your account is going to be locked, your coins frozen, and your KYC info demanded at some point in the near future.

If your friend wants to use a centralized exchange, then they are going to have to complete KYC. If they don't want to complete KYC, then they need to use a good DEX like Bisq or LocalCryptos as mentioned above.

Although KuCoin is widely used, I don't think that it would be a right choice for OP's friend due to the fact that even if he does decide to pursue a path on KYC - thus elevating his withradwal limit - we won't be able to do it on KuCoin since they do not allow USA users to do that[1] (even though the reply from KuCoin moderator is 11 months old, I haven't found any other more recent that contradicts it). Even thought they seem to "enjoy" being in this "grey" area regarding the lack of need for KYC procedures - after all there are some users[2] that have been using it without ever sending their information to them - their whole stance seems to be driving users to eventually do KYC procdeures. The reason for my analysis is simple - take a look at the moderators reply from source [1] - he initially said that:
So 5 BTC per 24 hours with no KYC seems good right? That was 11 months ago. Fast forward to 13/10/2021 and we got this official announcement[3]:
So in less than 11 months we went from 5 BTC daily withdraw limit to 1 BTC. Imagine if you joined 11 months ago due to this "leverage" you are now left with almost no leverage and potentially you'll have to find another exchange soon. These are some of the risks that you may find if you keep trusting that exchanges will abide by their words in perpetually. Besides that, If I'm reading the P2P limits that you have on KuCoin[4] - and I might be wrong on this one - you'll only be able to "buy" 400 USD per day if you intend to keep away from their KYC policy.

---

[1]https://www.reddit.com/r/kucoin/comments/k346t2/kyc_for_usa_users/
[2]https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/ll9iyl/kucoin_in_the_us_spot_trading_leverage_etc_no_kyc/
[3]https://www.kucoin.com/news/announcement-regarding-the-adjustment-of-daily-withdrawal-limit
[4]https://support.kucoin.plus/hc/en-us/articles/360015102254-About-KYC-Verification

The huge margin is a price to pay when using no KYC p2p. Most that I have used have never been anywhere the 1:1 ratio when trading.

The better solution would be for your friend to put up adverts himself in the platforms. For example when I use Localcryptos, instead of selling my Bitcoin at 10% below market price to a merchant. I put up an advert selling them at 5% above market price and wait for someone to buy.

With the above option, your friend needs to be patient.

There is no way Kucoin is going to allow you to buy Bitcoins using fiat minus first getting verified.

I didn't read the link you posted, but from the title it looks like that applies to Canadian residents, and OP mentioned that his friend is in the US.  I'm not even sure Kucoin deals with fiat even if you're verified, though I could be mistaken.  And yes, you can trade USDT/BTC there, but first you have to get ahold of some USDT which presents a similar problem, i.e., finding an exchange.

If you're looking to trade 1:1, good luck.  I'd always recommend trying the Currency Exchange section on the forum, because there are always members looking to trade bitcoin for cash, though you have to know who you're dealing with and usually you never really do.  But 1:1 trades are definitely possible there.

Thank you o_e_l_e_o I wasn't aware of that. It seems that US really wants to grab tight the hole operation of knowing who is flowing money into exchanges that trade with Crypto, I guess that has to be the main reason why hodlhodl decided to stay out of it...
I do believe this would be a balanced approach that would both lower the trading fees (not by a much I reckon, but it's better than nothing) while at the same time providing anonymity for both parties. I don't imagine that BitcoinGirl.club would be his friends escrow - as in making the purchases trough him/she since OP is a reputable member - but I think that his/her friend should consider using one of the many bitcointalk forum reputable sellers for this. There is also another exchange - albeit it doesn't accept united states dollars - which is Bity[1] which do not requires KYC procedures for daily amounts bellow CHF 1,000 (about 1,090 USD). But we would be talking about exchanging fiat to EURO / CHF and then use it to purchase in Bity service... I've made a simulation with 200 EUR and the resulting BTC would be 0.00375397 , which means the total fees (excluding the conversion rate from USD <-> EUR) would be 2,94 EUR.

To put things in perspective, we're talking that in your 200 EUR of purchase, 1,47 % went directly to fees (again, excluding conversion rate). There are people that would find this amount exorbitant but considering the fact that they have no information on you (regarding KYC) it seems to be a reasonable price to pay for the anonymity.

---

[1]https://bity.com/

Hodlhodl has since disabled trading for US customers again:

---

Sure, there are some offers which are 10-15% above market rates, but there are also some which are 1-2% above market rates. (There are also some at or even below market rates, but those are generally in brand new accounts or accounts with very little feedback, so I wouldn't take the risk with them, but others might.) If you friend doesn't like any of the offers he sees, then just post his own offer and wait for someone to take him up on it. If he is looking to buy on a regular basis, then there is a good chance he could set up a recurring deal with a single seller and therefore negotiate much better prices.

Even KYCed exchanges still charge trading fees and withdrawal fees, so even then he won't be buying at rates of 1:1 once those are factored in.

USA and Canada are very strict when it comes to regulations, what you're looking for is centralized exchanges which is all centralized exchanges serve USA and Canada citizens is must verified account.

KuCoin is the possible solution for this but there's a chance they will froze your funds [1]

@OP why you not become a seller for your friend? I mean you buy from centralized exchanges (or any other way to earn) and then sell it to your friend, or you live in very strict country too?

---

[1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/107586/kucoin-ontario-canada-securities-law-enforcement

Sadly I did hence my warning regarding the balance between no-KYC vs fees associated with it (this is mostly due to the trading volume in this exchanges being somewhat low when compared to others). I also forgot to say that HodlHodl could also be considered as an option since they have enabled trading in the US ever since 2018[1].
I guess your friend could keep an eye on this website[2] that has a comparison of different rates being applied to this kind of service. If you check the option of "Only anonymous exchanges" it will lead you to services that he / she is interested in. Oddly the website shows "localbitcoins.com" as a feasible option, but the service has implemented KYC procedures[3], so it shouldn't be seen as an option. There is also this[4] Github page that has a bit list of P2P Non-KYC exchanges services (you'll some that I've mentioned here) but then again, a higher level of fees will be applied.

Would your friend consider using a reputable member from our dedicated section of the forum[5]? Or that is something that he isn't willing to do?

---

[1]https://hodlhodl.medium.com/hodl-hodl-enables-trading-for-us-ebb52490d7c0
[2]https://exchangerates.pro/?from_country=US
[3]https://localbitcoins.com/blog/id-verification-update/
[4]https://github.com/cointastical/P2P-Trading-Exchanges
[5]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0

Thanks brother.
Did you see the margin? 15% and above for USDT. Fees will eat up a large volume to be honest. I was looking at something where trade will be 1:1

Exchanges that usually don't ask for "too much information", as in KYC procedures, usually offset that feature with a slight bump in their fees. However, if your friend is willing to pursue this path I'm sure he won't mind to pay a bit more considering that his private information is kept away from centralized entities. That said, and considering that he is in the US, I would recommend the following services:

• Bitsq[1]
• Localcoinswap[2]
• Localcryptos[3]

I reckon that he can always use one of the many reputable sellers that we have here in the forum - which I would say its the best option considering the goal - but perhaps he isn't willing to follow that route considering that he seems to be looking for a "no-frills" experience.

---

[1]https://bisq.network/
[2]https://localcoinswap.com/
[3]https://localcryptos.com/

I have a friend in US wants to buy crypto regularly. He is looking at Bitcoin, and other established coins. Which exchange has the lowest fee and give 1:1 rate. Or please give me a good idea how to buy bitcoin easily in US without giving too much information.