Can a permanent ban be reconsidered | Bitcointalksearch.org

Lucius

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on November 21, 2021, 05:16:27 PM

I remember a few years ago, there was a ban wave that banned most of the accounts (even high-ranking ones) due to plagiarism.

I do not know the exact number, but it was certainly thousands of accounts, most of which are still lower-ranked. I think it was a really good move that made the forum purge combined with the introduction of the merit system. Some have certainly paid a high price because they were reckless at some point, but deliberately plagiarizing someone’s work has no justification.

Of course there are always exceptions, and those looking for a second chance got it if they were of any value to the forum.

qwertyup23

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I remember a few years ago, there was a ban wave that banned most of the accounts (even high-ranking ones) due to plagiarism. While some asked for an appeal, many were left unheeded. Most of the cases that got appealed were accounts who made a contribution to the forum and the ban that they received were switched to temporary bans (e.g. signature ban for a year, etc.).

Bottomline is, bans are considered in a case-to-case basis depending on the amount of contribution you made to the forum. While the admins have the discretion whether to allow it or not, if you break forum rules then you suffer the consequences of your actions.

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I guess Op knows that he was talking about establishing a high-profile account and then failing to follow the rules once and being banned. Is there any way the Admin could create a second route for defaulters, such as having durations for bans, to give banned users a second chance and hope? I realize this is a pointless debate, but it would make more sense if temporary bans were issued to reputable members instead of permanent bans.

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 19, 2021, 08:10:41 AM

Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

If an account is banned then the account never can grow and become a high profiled account. The moment it's banned, it lose the ability to make posts and to rank up you need to post, increase activity with required merit.

A permanent means permanent. So there are no way to make it none-permanent.

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Quote from: Coyster on November 21, 2021, 03:46:56 AM

Quote from: Daniel91 on November 20, 2021, 10:10:38 AM

What I don't understand is why some cases of permaban are resolved in 2 days and some are resolved in 2 years

I think it depends a whole lot on the case itself, the user, how the appeal was presented and the evidence delivered to the moderators, obviously some appeal cases will last longer than others before it's either revolved or debunked, sometimes it depends a lot on when the plagiarism was committed, how many times it was committed and the intent with which it was committed, in other instance, the moderators try to take a look at the reputation of the accused user, if the user actually deserves a second chance or not, or if a signature ban would be the best verdict. Other times, if the accused user cannot present enough evidence in their appeal, then it could take the mods time to come to a conclusion. Having said that, I know some cases just takes a few days to resolve, but if you look closely, such cases are easier and straight to the point that the ones that will prolly take many months

I don't suppose the double standards because its unfair what if a newbie actually plagiarized something and get punished with permaban but he has the potential to become one of the biggest asset to this community? If there is a second chance then it should be for everyone but the second chances we are talking about is not happening much often so its admins decision so nothing can be done against it.

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Quote from: Daniel91 on November 20, 2021, 10:10:38 AM

What I don't understand is why some cases of permaban are resolved in 2 days and some are resolved in 2 years

I think it depends a whole lot on the case itself, the user, how the appeal was presented and the evidence delivered to the moderators, obviously some appeal cases will last longer than others before it's either revolved or debunked, sometimes it depends a lot on when the plagiarism was committed, how many times it was committed and the intent with which it was committed, in other instance, the moderators try to take a look at the reputation of the accused user, if the user actually deserves a second chance or not, or if a signature ban would be the best verdict. Other times, if the accused user cannot present enough evidence in their appeal, then it could take the mods time to come to a conclusion. Having said that, I know some cases just takes a few days to resolve, but if you look closely, such cases are easier and straight to the point that the ones that will prolly take many months

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 19, 2021, 08:10:41 AM

There is this evil IP which can be lifted by paying a small amount of fees but I do not think it has anything to do with getting banned permanently.

If you get permanently banned, your IP will receive a certain amount of evil points. The same happens to other IPs in your range. That's why there are cases of people registering here for the first time and getting that evil points message that asks them to pay a penalty fee to fully access the forum. So there is a direct connection between bans and evil IPs.

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 19, 2021, 08:53:37 AM

Alt accounts will be banned for ban evasion there is no doubt in that but let's assume someone never used any cryptocurrency address in the banned account and the newly created one then its really not possible to prove they sre evading ban but admin csn find it if I am not wrong.

The admins don't really do that kind of research on their own unless someone reported a user for ban evasion. But in those cases, I am sure they only look at the presented evidence by the reporter.

Quote from: Daniel91 on November 20, 2021, 10:10:38 AM

This is what bothers me too, unequal criteria in similar cases.

That's just the way of life. You can see it in all segments of society. Remember what Orwell said in the Animal Farm?

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Quote from: Kavelj22 on November 20, 2021, 06:38:51 PM

Maybe it's my fault being sensible with such cases, even though i see how many profiles lost their profile reputation by joining a signature campaign promoting a scam or encouraged to break forum rules.

You forget that no one is forcing you to participate in fraudulent companies, and people themselves subscribe to them. Nobody drags them there by force.
Moreover, the second company 1XBit opened, managers have reduced payments, but note that clean accounts still sign up for participation, although they understand that they will be marked with a negative tag. What is the conclusion? Some people don't give a damn about reputation, money comes first.

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Quote from: ShowOff on November 19, 2021, 06:06:49 AM

Quote from: Kavelj22 on November 18, 2021, 05:41:58 PM

I do not agree with toleration for those who break forum rules. I think also that exceptions can't be done but case by case situations.

Moderators or forum admin will review and consider and resolve issues on a case-by-case. Some people have been permanently ban before because they had useful contribution to this forum but the mistake was not done on purpose. One of the name I mentioned above has been experiencing it for several days due to plagiarism even though the ban was finally canceled.

I can understand your point very well. I think it's pathetic to see profiles built over time to be destroyed in such a way like i described in my above post.

Maybe it's my fault being sensible with such cases, even though i see how many profiles lost their profile reputation by joining a signature campaign promoting a scam or encouraged to break forum rules.

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Quote from: Lucius on November 19, 2021, 09:08:27 AM

Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

This is a reality that everyone has to accept, because plagiarism is a form of virtual theft, and if you steal something in real life and get caught you have to bear the consequences. However, I believe that everyone who made such a mistake, and was a valuable member of the forum, got a second chance, the only difference is that some waited for a second chance for 2 days, and some for almost 2 years.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 18, 2021, 05:39:29 PM

I've seen maybe two cases of a permaban being overturned in all my years here.

I remember there were a lot more than 2 cases, especially considering that some got a perma-ban which was then changed to a signature ban (see a post from @DdmrDdmr). I well remember the long-running case of @RegulusHr being unbanned, and also the case of @bill gator who claimed he didn’t know about the plagiarized posts because he bought an account from someone, but also @Aveatrex, @ChiNgadOr, @tvplus006, and some other members who were given a second chance.

This is what bothers me too, unequal criteria in similar cases.
I agree that plagiarism is a very serious offense and should be punished and I also agree that deserving forum members, with a high reputation and the support of the forum community, should be given a new chance.
What I don't understand is why some cases of permaban are resolved in 2 days and some are resolved in 2 years, as was the case with RegulusHr.
In the case of RegulusHr, the whole local community gave him their support, and that support didn't stop for a full 2 years, and that was the main reason that the permaban for Regulushr was permanently removed.
To answer the question of the OP, permaban can be reconsidered, but only in the case of a deserving and distinguished member of the forum, who has the great support of the forum community.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 19, 2021, 08:53:37 AM

let's assume someone never used any cryptocurrency address in the banned account and the newly created one then its really not possible to prove they sre evading ban but admin csn find it if I am not wrong.

Finding alt account using address tracing is a very popular method in the forum but sometimes it gives us falls positive. But yes usually when an account found which is connected with a banned account then we consider it as ban evasion and the alt gets banned too.

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 19, 2021, 08:53:37 AM

But 99.99% of the permanent bans were for plagiarism and evasion of existing ban by connecting through address.

Correct. The exceptional cases are exceptional only.

Lucius

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

This is a reality that everyone has to accept, because plagiarism is a form of virtual theft, and if you steal something in real life and get caught you have to bear the consequences. However, I believe that everyone who made such a mistake, and was a valuable member of the forum, got a second chance, the only difference is that some waited for a second chance for 2 days, and some for almost 2 years.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 18, 2021, 05:39:29 PM

I've seen maybe two cases of a permaban being overturned in all my years here.

I remember there were a lot more than 2 cases, especially considering that some got a perma-ban which was then changed to a signature ban (see a post from @DdmrDdmr). I well remember the long-running case of @RegulusHr being unbanned, and also the case of @bill gator who claimed he didn’t know about the plagiarized posts because he bought an account from someone, but also @Aveatrex, @ChiNgadOr, @tvplus006, and some other members who were given a second chance.

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In the forum we have two categories of ban.
(A) Temporary ban
(B) permanent ban

Temporary: So for the temporary, it's a ban that can take place within a specific period of time in order for it to be lift because the user can't participate fully in forum activities such as signatures depends the natures of the ban, i think some ban take period of seven (7) days and months be it can be lift as i stated initially from the beginning of this sentence.

Permanent: the word permanent should Cross check in your dictionary, it obviously means infinity, it has been stamped and it cant be changed, so in nutshell permanent it's not reversible after the period of appeal and it happened not to be release or free that particular moment, even though it stay some century I don't think it will free. The period of appeal will determine it continuity in the forum, from my own Perspective.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 19, 2021, 08:10:41 AM

There is this evil IP which can be lifted by paying a small amount of fees but I do not think it has anything to do with getting banned permanently. A banned account when it is caught to have another alt account then they get banned again. The ban can be for any duration. And only plagiarism is not the only reason for permanent ban. As far as I know long time ago a user got permanent ban by admin because of his unfair activities and spreading FUD if I am not wrong.

Alt accounts will be banned for ban evasion there is no doubt in that but let's assume someone never used any cryptocurrency address in the banned account and the newly created one then its really not possible to prove they sre evading ban but admin csn find it if I am not wrong. But 99.99% of the permanent bans were for plagiarism and evasion of existing ban by connecting through address.

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on November 19, 2021, 08:17:31 AM

It was not stated in the forum rules, so I don't think they can ban an IP address. Some members do not use a static IP, so if an IP ban is implemented too, I think it will not effectively serve its purpose.

In the case of IP address only the Evil IP takes place in action. Depending on the score you pay the fees to whitelist the IP. Higher score means higher penalty and that's all in my understanding.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on November 19, 2021, 07:26:26 AM

Once they were banned then its completely done and very rare exceptions which may not likely happen with new accounts but I am not sure that if any account got banned their IP also will get banned and will be restricted from registering another account from the same IP this is what strike in my mind when I am reading this thread. Roll Eyes

It was not stated in the forum rules, so I don't think they can ban an IP address. Some members do not use a static IP, so if an IP ban is implemented too, I think it will not effectively serve its purpose.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

If an account is banned then the account never can grow and become a high profiled account. The moment it's banned, it lose the ability to make posts and to rank up you need to post, increase activity with required merit.

A permanent means permanent. So there are no way to make it none-permanent.

Quote from: Findingnemo on November 19, 2021, 07:26:26 AM

Once they were banned then its completely done and very rare exceptions which may not likely happen with new accounts but I am not sure that if any account got banned their IP also will get banned and will be restricted from registering another account from the same IP this is what strike in my mind when I am reading this thread. Roll Eyes

There is this evil IP which can be lifted by paying a small amount of fees but I do not think it has anything to do with getting banned permanently. A banned account when it is caught to have another alt account then they get banned again. The ban can be for any duration. And only plagiarism is not the only reason for permanent ban. As far as I know long time ago a user got permanent ban by admin because of his unfair activities and spreading FUD if I am not wrong.

Findingnemo

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Once they were banned then its completely done and very rare exceptions which may not likely happen with new accounts but I am not sure that if any account got banned their IP also will get banned and will be restricted from registering another account from the same IP this is what strike in my mind when I am reading this thread. Roll Eyes

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on November 18, 2021, 05:39:29 PM

I've seen maybe two cases of a permaban being overturned in all my years here. One was ChiBitCty (don't know if I spelled the name right), and the other one was a real asshole that ran a gambling site if I remember correctly, and he made a huge stink about it. But both were a long time ago, so that should tell you that it's rare.

Maybe there are 3 if I don't forget the case of Mpamaegbu who was banned for plagiarism which he admit was done accidentally.

Quote from: Kavelj22 on November 18, 2021, 05:41:58 PM

I do not agree with toleration for those who break forum rules. I think also that exceptions can't be done but case by case situations.

Moderators or forum admin will review and consider and resolve issues on a case-by-case. Some people have been permanently ban before because they had useful contribution to this forum but the mistake was not done on purpose. One of the name I mentioned above has been experiencing it for several days due to plagiarism even though the ban was finally canceled.

Kavelj22

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Permaban for plagiarism is mandatory in my opinion. However, for other reasons, i think there should be few exceptions.

Permaban can be applied for spam boost also, I remember many users who were permabanned because they join a signature campaign (lunched outside the forum itself) in which one of the rules is to post in the ANN thread of the promoted project one or two posts per week. Think how many users were totally ignorant about that spam will cause a permaban by forum official rules when they didn't even realize that what they did is a pure spam.

I do not agree with toleration for those who break forum rules. I think also that exceptions can't be done but case by case situations.

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Quote from: jackg on November 18, 2021, 01:32:22 PM

I don't think permenant bans are done lightly though and they can be appealed if they seem inaccurate.

They seem to be done pretty lightly, i.e., if you're caught plagiarizing or serial spamming, you're gone. The mods just hit a button and that's it. It's strange that those two infractions are the only ones that seem to ever result in permabans, but that's bitcointalk for ya.

I've seen maybe two cases of a permaban being overturned in all my years here. One was ChiBitCty (don't know if I spelled the name right), and the other one was a real asshole that ran a gambling site if I remember correctly, and he made a huge stink about it. But both were a long time ago, so that should tell you that it's rare.

There was some talk a while back about maybe instituting a signature ban instead of an all-out forum ban for isolated cases of plagiarism, but I don't think that discussion went anywhere. IIRC there was a lot of support for that, and I supported some leniency myself (in certain cases). But to implement any changes on the forum takes Theymos's consent, and he's rather slow in giving it.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

if a user gets banned is there any possibility of such user to recover their accounts after some years or are there programs organized by forum moderators that can help users recover banned accounts. The reason of my thread is not to encourage plagiarism nor other offense that might lead to permanent ban.

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration. At least a process can be adopted even if it's would be a very stressful one but atleast there should be a way to recover a permanently banned account

Yes, but there's it's a rare consideration especially to some users who really has proven its contribution in this forum. Some are being banned temporarily but it takes years before they retrieve it again, as far as I know 2-3 years is what I've seen as the great temporary ban (correct me if I'm wrong). It depends onto the appeal to be honest here in Meta but if you're talking of those banned persona ages ago I doubt its possibility to be recovered.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

Only quality posters can make their account reach high rank after the merit system is implemented in this forum. So this will be the reason why the permanent ban can be reconsidered by the moderators if the poster accidentally breaks the rule.

I would probably support a permanent ban if it was done on purpose even if the poster is a forum contributor or high ranking member. There is no difference in penalties between contributors and non-contributors users if the mistake was made intentionally. I think some people have said about this in another thread, I'm just reminding you.

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The only way to get a ban lifted is by submitting an appeal to global mods/admins.
You can appeal a ban by sending a message to the email address on the ban notification or by starting a thread here on meta board.

AFAIK, only global mods and admins have such privilege and only them can decide whether you deserve a second chance or not depending on your contribution to the community.

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Even if it gets reconsidered, how high do you think are the chances going to be for the person to get unbanned any time later or maybe immediately? That specific case needs to be super strong to challenge the judgement of admins and/or global moderators.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

if a user gets banned is there any possibility of such user to recover their accounts after some years or are there programs organized by forum moderators that can help users recover banned accounts.

You meant permanent ban, not temporary ban. Then, the ban is permanent and the account is banned forever. It can be appealed for as jackg commented, if not unbanned after appeal, then the account is banned forever.

Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration.

People can appeal, but best to avoid ban from the onset after account registration. There are some people that go against the rules and given temporary ban, there are cases of appeal and unbanning of account. But prevention is better than cure.

Quote from: jackg on November 18, 2021, 01:32:22 PM

I don't think permenant bans are done lightly though and they can be appealed if they seem inaccurate.

Although, the chance that admin or moderator will unban a banned account is very slim, but very possible someone can appeal and be considered.

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This thread is old now, but it kept track of some cases that were unbanned or, in any case, mostly commuted for a signature ban back in the day: ✅[BAN APPEAL]UPDATE: Total table + Ban status (Need feedback from Global mods). If you read through the thread and follow the links, you’ll be able to reach some of the details behind the cases.

Although the above thread stopped being updated a couple of years ago, I’d figure that similar criteria applies: ban appeals are studied case by case (with some luck), and if the banned account was clearly a net positive account towards the forum (and possibly somewhat noteworthy), something like a signature ban for a certain period of time could, in the best case, be considered. Most accounts on the forum won’t stand much of a chance, but if you glimpse through the cases on the list, you’d get a general idea of chances and circumstances.

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Quote from: Zilon on November 18, 2021, 01:07:39 PM

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration. At least a process can be adopted even if it's would be a very stressful one but atleast there should be a way to recover a permanently banned account

If the banned user was a good poster, he/she usually don't get a perma ban. Those users get a temporary ban or a signature ban. Sometimes they get banned permanently but if the other forum members support the banned user, the mod's/admin's opinion might change and convert his/her perma ban to a temp ban or a signature ban. I can't exactly remember but I believe similar events have happened in the past.

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Well a permenant ban does mean the user broke the rules of the forum and were given a permenant ban (I think if it was intended to be temporary still, the admins would hand out 2 year bans instead - but they don't).

I don't think permenant bans are done lightly though and they can be appealed if they seem inaccurate.

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if a user gets banned is there any possibility of such user to recover their accounts after some years or are there programs organized by forum moderators that can help users recover banned accounts. The reason of my thread is not to encourage plagiarism nor other offense that might lead to permanent ban.

But it's stressful growing an account from scratch to a high profiled account only to get banned permanently without any form of future consideration. At least a process can be adopted even if it's would be a very stressful one but atleast there should be a way to recover a permanently banned account

Topic: Can a permanent ban be reconsidered (Read 420 times)