Can companies that produce mining equipment use devices?

Amph

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Quote from: coolcoinz on February 17, 2017, 06:21:42 AM

They can do it and they are doing it. KNC were accused of such mining in the past. I also think BFL, which was a scam on many levels, also purposely delayed shipping to mine for themselves.
This is a great way to make money if you don't care about the company's reputation, but are entering the market for a quick buck.

the knc case was different, because they were directly producing their asic i remember this, therefore they were testing it quickly after the production is complete, i see no issue with this

yes maybe they went to far with testing of some product, and delivered it later but it's different than what BFL did, which is plan scamming customers

coin revolution

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Quote from: isoneguy on February 03, 2017, 01:50:24 PM

I don't think it's polite to bank on the miners taking the loss.

That's disrespectful to the people supporting your product line.

Moral standing would imply that you share the benefits with those buying your products.

To each their own...

Yes this is what it should be. But not all people depend on ethical values. Humanity is a bit greedy. Everyone may not be as good as you.
They can think of their own interests. They may not depend on ethical values. There is a lot of news about companies violating ethical rules.

That's why I do not really trust the firm.

coolcoinz

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They can do it and they are doing it. KNC were accused of such mining in the past. I also think BFL, which was a scam on many levels, also purposely delayed shipping to mine for themselves.
This is a great way to make money if you don't care about the company's reputation, but are entering the market for a quick buck.

Xester

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Yes they are using those devices but for quality control and testing. They are doing it to test the functionality and the durability of the items. But they are not doing for very long but just in a short span of time. Without any test conducted there is a tendency that we can purchase items that are defective and is not working. But rest assured they are not selling second hand devices.

BtcoinSpider

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I understand what are your question.

Yes, then can use.

Just like a ferrari manufacturer's can produce ferrari but, can choose to go with smaller car i.e fiat to reduce cost.

I think they do what they are doing based on passion not base solely on profit.

Thks
Btcoinspider

fitty

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Quote from: isoneguy on February 03, 2017, 01:50:24 PM

I don't think it's polite to bank on the miners taking the loss.

That's disrespectful to the people supporting your product line.

Moral standing would imply that you share the benefits with those buying your products.

To each their own...

Yeah. I also think that was a wrong thing to do. Especially, they are the producers of a certain mining equipment. It is their responsibility to attain the good quality of the product. They should only test the equipment to check if it is in the good quality and not to earn bitcoins. If so, they should just make their equipment and configure to mine bitcoin or any altcoin and not to sell those products but instead, just mine bitcoins.

isoneguy

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I don't think it's polite to bank on the miners taking the loss.

That's disrespectful to the people supporting your product line.

Moral standing would imply that you share the benefits with those buying your products.

To each their own...

just_Alice

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

Most likely they are doing something like this because it looks logical. Only I've never heard someone comlaining about receiving a used miner insteed of a new one so even if they are doing this they are doing it very cautiously.

QuintLeo

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Quote from: CloudStrife on January 31, 2017, 04:14:44 PM

I think it happens, and I think the best way to reduce the chances of this happening is the emergence of more competition in the market, so that users could invest in companies that do not make the equipment available after a long time, when the difficulty of mining is already higher. Companies making things more difficult would have to adjust.

There usually HAS been competition - the last half of last year was a very uncommon period.

Down side - miners get cheaper when there is significant competiton, means more get sold (as long as the production capasity is available) so hashrate goes UP a lot faster 'till the point of "marginal for ROI achievement" is reached for most, then it slows a some 'till the "major farms don't see ROI happening on new gear" range and it slows down a LOT.

megynacuna

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 10:24:07 AM

Can the companies that produce mining machines use the devices for a certain period and then drive them to the market?
They may first use the level of difficulty they have developed themselves and then sell it later.

I'm very certain that's what had been going on because the new devices themselves needs to be tested and hence if they do test and seems to be mining more blocks than the others sometimes it's possible they might want to stay-in and keep using for a certain time before they finally let it out to the market.

alh

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Quote from: QuintLeo on January 31, 2017, 04:06:45 PM

And the jeans (Levi Strauss reference).

So for Bitcoin mining would that be a robe and slippers?

Very little "dirty" mining for most folks......

CloudStrife

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I think it happens, and I think the best way to reduce the chances of this happening is the emergence of more competition in the market, so that users could invest in companies that do not make the equipment available after a long time, when the difficulty of mining is already higher. Companies making things more difficult would have to adjust.

QuintLeo

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And the jeans (Levi Strauss reference).

nikkisnowe

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The ASIC mining manufacturers understand a lesson learned over 150 years ago. It's not the miners that get rich, it's the guy selling the shovels.

coin revolution

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Quote from: Betwrong on January 29, 2017, 11:49:22 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

Let's be realistic. These days if that was happening we'd already know about it for sure. Someone from Bitmain would tell about it on a forum, especially if that person was fired from the company. But even if he wasn't he could do it anonymously. I think it's impossible to keep a secret that big without leaks.

They can do prevent this with deterrent work contracts. If they are doing something like this, they can do it without sharing it with all the employees.

Of course, mine is just an assumption. There is no evidence that the companies have done anything like this. If it was me, I could.

Betwrong

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

Let's be realistic. These days if that was happening we'd already know about it for sure. Someone from Bitmain would tell about it on a forum, especially if that person was fired from the company. But even if he wasn't he could do it anonymously. I think it's impossible to keep a secret that big without leaks.

QuintLeo

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BitFury, Bitmain, BW.com (Lketc), and KNC were known to have their own farms (KNC is dead now though).
Innosilicon appears to not have a farm.
Not sure on Caanan.

Bitmain has a history of putting a "used gear" sale up for about a month on their then-current model before they introduce a new model for sale to the public.

n691309

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 10:24:07 AM

Can the companies that produce mining machines use the devices for a certain period and then drive them to the market?
They may first use the level of difficulty they have developed themselves and then sell it later.

Not that they can, but they do it. They mine with the new devices, test if everything goes well and then decide to sell that device or not, we know that mining rigs/equipment are not cheap so if a series of mining rigs fails then it would be bad for their company reputation. And I think that if the bitcoin difficulty increases rapidly within a short period of time then a mining rig series is being tested.

equator

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Quote from: ironm@n on January 28, 2017, 05:14:49 PM

I think there are companies doing this, after all, they can in that way make a significant profit, and then sell the equipment when they realize that the difficulty of mining is about to increase. I think the best way to avoid this kind of injury is to try to design your own mining equipment, I think there are only a few people with knowledge to do this, but it is possible.

As not everyone can design the mining equipment , that is why due to this reason is that they are approaching the manufacturer of the mining equipment and the manufacturer in the name of testing will first start mining the coin and after some days , they just pack it back in the box and send it to the buyer of the equipment. Because without mining they cannot find the result of the equipment

ironm@n

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I think there are companies doing this, after all, they can in that way make a significant profit, and then sell the equipment when they realize that the difficulty of mining is about to increase. I think the best way to avoid this kind of injury is to try to design your own mining equipment, I think there are only a few people with knowledge to do this, but it is possible.

KougarLOB

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A company can develop and use any technology they want. Likewise, they can sell any machine they want and call it the latest and greatest available - but it just may be. Look at the rise in BTC difficulty. Someone brought a new generation ASIC online. Maybe S11 or something else. We don't know. Likely warehouses of S9s were mining long before they publicly announced the hardware. The physical units that were sold were late production models, sloppy seconds.

On the other hand, we, the market, can choose to buy or not. Feels wrong to drop thousand$ on hardware that you HOPE will break even. Only real chance one has is to use payouts as trading or investment capital.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

I think they can do that, because nothing really stops them but I don't think they actually do, because it's more profitable and a lot easier to start selling the new ones (and continue selling old ones for lower price) than starting to do mining. Mining will require very big amounts of energy consumed and you have to take the risk that after a month or so some miners will break. And you need these additional devices to provide good ventilation as well.

shield132

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Yes of course, for example we can take bitfury. They are producing 16nm asic chip and they are using it for them and bitfury ceo said that at the same time they are going to sell it. Also coin revolution said really truth, to my mind new antminers are already created but they are waiting until full sell of s9, it's simply marketing trick and everyone uses it because it's impossible to create anything great in one day.

Amph

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

i actually think that they sell the devices at a certain diff so the roi time is exactly what they want, based on an accurate estimate, it's not even that hard to do when you know the average increase, which is somehow always the same

and because of this it does not make sense to buy their equipment to roi, you will never roi unless you sell back to someone else

0xfff

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Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 12:45:20 PM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

They would already need the capital to produce the next gen units. I doubt that they have that much to invest production of units with no orders. You could be right though. It would be interesting to see global hashrate before they release a new miner.

coin revolution

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Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 11:39:19 AM

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

I'm not talking about from it.

For example, the BitMain company is now selling the S9.
But the bitmain company has the S10 on hand.
The S10 has been tested for quality control and is ready to be sold to customers.
But Bitmain wants to sell the S9 on the market first.
The customer does not know his S10.
Bitmain is doing bitcoin mining with the S10 device.
On the one hand, the S11 device is being developed.
After completing the development of the device S11, it is selling the device S10.

That's what I want to tell you. I do not know how else I can tell you more clearly.

0xfff

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Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: coin revolution on January 27, 2017, 11:31:04 AM

Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

Yes that is what they do when they """""""""""""""test""""""""""""""" them to make sure they work before shipping to customers. There may be some unseen delays in getting products to purchasers because of these """""""""""""""tests""""""""""""""" last longer than expected.

coin revolution

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Quote from: 0xfff on January 27, 2017, 10:38:23 AM

Yes that is how they "test" them.

What I would like to say is that they can use the devices for a certain period of time, extract the bitcoin and then sell it later.
I don't say: product quality testing.

0xfff

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Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Yes that is how they "test" them.

coin revolution

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Merit: 10

Can the companies that produce mining machines use the devices for a certain period and then drive them to the market?
They may first use the level of difficulty they have developed themselves and then sell it later.

Topic: Can companies that produce mining equipment use devices? (Read 2748 times)