Topic: Can crypto exchagnes regain users trust with PoR? (Read 248 times)
I really don't understand why this system was created?? Or what advantages does it give to the user? But you can also verify this transaction on the blockchain, what is the advantage? Maybe I don't understand something and I ask you to explain what the difference is! Who doesn't find it difficult!
~snip~
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
That's won't be enough to get all those victims for FTX and LUNA collapse since they're losing a lot of money there, but at least we can get something progressing in our crypto space. The good thing with PoR we can see that will make the current investor keep believing in Centralized Exchange.
Before implementing PoR, exchanges should think about the fact that it may not provide any additional security. From what I can tell, the premise behind PoR is that a public ledger (blockchain) is harder to falsify than a private ledger.
Although this sounds like a sensible idea, does it hold up when we consider the situation of exchange hacks?
Instead of moving all the coins to a single address, an attacker might move the majority to one address and send the remainder to smaller addresses on several different wallets or even exchanges. It would be difficult to track these stolen funds through blockchain analysis because they are split up among smaller wallets or exchanges.
I don't think that anyone would call Proof Of Reserves perfect. There are a number of issues with this mechanism, and it is quite accurate to say that no number of PoR reports can give us a full sense of an exchange's financial situation.
Although this sounds like a sensible idea, does it hold up when we consider the situation of exchange hacks?
Instead of moving all the coins to a single address, an attacker might move the majority to one address and send the remainder to smaller addresses on several different wallets or even exchanges. It would be difficult to track these stolen funds through blockchain analysis because they are split up among smaller wallets or exchanges.
I don't think that anyone would call Proof Of Reserves perfect. There are a number of issues with this mechanism, and it is quite accurate to say that no number of PoR reports can give us a full sense of an exchange's financial situation.
Like kraken ceo said multiple times. Proof of reserves is useless without proof of liabilities. This would make any exchange even FTX look solvent when you see they got $1b in reserves but have $10b in liabilities.
There are some exchanges such as kraken and Bitmex which actually have the proof of liabilities also shown and this is vital. I think moving forward many customers will be asking for this info when using a crypto exchange.
There are some exchanges such as kraken and Bitmex which actually have the proof of liabilities also shown and this is vital. I think moving forward many customers will be asking for this info when using a crypto exchange.
Indeed, when viewed from the point of view of Proof of Reserves, it is to give more confidence to investors and their customers so that they believe that this exchange still has reserve funds. This seems to be a very effective way of letting clients know more about the exchanges they trade on
How about new exchanges though? obviously they don't have the money to begin with since they are just starting on the business, what proof they should show us?
So for me this PoR is just good in papers for this exchanges, and we really don't know if this exchanges has the real funds anyone, they can play with it, I mean giving us false data, maybe it's not their real funds to begin with.
Yeah, I read though that Binance has started it, but they only show BTC only, and they say that next is all other assets.
~snip~
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
That's won't be enough to get all those victims for FTX and LUNA collapse since they're losing a lot of money there, but at least we can get something progressing in our crypto space. The good thing with PoR we can see that will make the current investor keep believing in Centralized Exchange.
It could be enough if the PoR is more transparent. So far CZ only shows partial details of the PoR, they were not showing the liabilities which because of the number of users in Binance, there could be a lot of liabilities. AFAIK there are other exchanges that did show their PoR too but the same shenanigans.
But despite all there I guess we're still going to continue to trade on them. The Crypto industry will not die.
~snip~
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
That's won't be enough to get all those victims for FTX and LUNA collapse since they're losing a lot of money there, but at least we can get something progressing in our crypto space. The good thing with PoR we can see that will make the current investor keep believing in Centralized Exchange.
Indeed, when viewed from the point of view of Proof of Reserves, it is to give more confidence to investors and their customers so that they believe that this exchange still has reserve funds. This seems to be a very effective way of letting clients know more about the exchanges they trade on
In my opinion this is too little too late, exchanges are realizing the massive mistake they made by thinking that people will simply keep their coins with them all the time and that this will never change, proof of reserves is nothing but a gimmick, if they really have the reserves needed to pay all their customers then why do they care that people are getting their coins out of the wallets of exchanges and they are transferring them to their own wallets? They care because they are afraid of a bank run and they want to avoid this by presenting a small report that says everything is fine, which is worth nothing as it is information which comes from them and not a third party we can trust.
Well firstly crypto exchanges never lost the trust of Crypto-currency enthusiast. Dont generalize it. I have been using crypto-currency exchange and i havent had any distrust.
Well what i have noticed is that this has to do with centralized exchange like FTX and binance, right now its best to use decentralized exchanges. Because its most secured and your privacy is protected.
Well what i have noticed is that this has to do with centralized exchange like FTX and binance, right now its best to use decentralized exchanges. Because its most secured and your privacy is protected.
I think this isn't enough for an exchange to win the trust of its patrons. Letting other people know that you have X amount of reserves for your stablecoin is one thing, and just being a trustworthy exchange is another. People will never bother checking yet another coin if PoR is tokenized (lol) if they already know the exchange has its stablecoins. Knowing how much money the exchange has in reserves is a good to know info, but I guess for the most part it doesn't really matter to us normal users (except if the platform has its own stablecoins).
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Since Proof of Reserve is a new thing it would be too soon to say whether it is enough to regain user trust.
It also depends on what is the proof of reserve and it's significance on the users.
But I must say that Binance has played it really smart. They have gone to the safer side with the PoR.
It is at least better than no audit at all.
It was the best decision at that time because reputation is very important. The pros are that other exchanges have also followed suit and shown their reserves to convince their users of the security of their assets.Another thing is how they will manage these reserves in case of unforeseen circumstances, I really hope that we will not catch this moment. It also depends on what is the proof of reserve and it's significance on the users.
But I must say that Binance has played it really smart. They have gone to the safer side with the PoR.
It is at least better than no audit at all.
Indeed, when viewed from the point of view of Proof of Reserves, it is to give more confidence to investors and their customers so that they believe that this exchange still has reserve funds. This seems to be a very effective way of letting clients know more about the exchanges they trade on
How about new exchanges though? obviously they don't have the money to begin with since they are just starting on the business, what proof they should show us?
So for me this PoR is just good in papers for this exchanges, and we really don't know if this exchanges has the real funds anyone, they can play with it, I mean giving us false data, maybe it's not their real funds to begin with.
Yeah, I read though that Binance has started it, but they only show BTC only, and they say that next is all other assets.
Indeed, when viewed from the point of view of Proof of Reserves, it is to give more confidence to investors and their customers so that they believe that this exchange still has reserve funds. This seems to be a very effective way of letting clients know more about the exchanges they trade on
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
For people like myself and many others nothing they do is ever going to be enough, I have never trusted exchanges and the many problems I have witnessed over the years have convinced me that I have always been right about them, and I am sure many people now think the same way I do, however there are many other people which will let themselves be convinced once again to deposit their money long term with them, and eventually some of them will lose their coins once an exchange go through a similar experience again I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Honestly, we can't really do something about it if exchanges won't show proof of their reserve following the crash of FTX.
This is something that we can't demand on big exchanges.
What to do now? Follow the basic rule of thumb where just use the exchange service and don't make it your personal wallet to store your funds.
This is something that we can't demand on big exchanges.
What to do now? Follow the basic rule of thumb where just use the exchange service and don't make it your personal wallet to store your funds.
After binance opened up the idea of Proof of reserves on a very intriguing timing which when FTX is doomed to fall because of mismanagement and the funds that are supposed to be in their exchange. People will obviously realize how important it is for a centralized exchange to be transparent to their customers by atleast showing their current assets. I believe that Binance revealed the idea at a very convenient timing given that people will lose trust to centralized exchange after the incident, CZ is ready to be the first who will reveal their current assets to gain the trust of those FTX users who got scammed by FTX. A very good business move.
PoR is a must and a very basic obligation of every exchanges and investment platform. It shouldn't be considered a game changer or additional favour platforms are having with their customers. Transparency and honesty are basic concepts of every kinds of businesses and human relationships.
Only time is going to make users regain trust on such services. People need to see these exchanges working and delivering everything they promise, despite the negative situation of crypto market, so they can feel safe to trust their funds to these services once more.
Only time is going to make users regain trust on such services. People need to see these exchanges working and delivering everything they promise, despite the negative situation of crypto market, so they can feel safe to trust their funds to these services once more.
I don't think we can call it trust with this Proof of Reserved concept.
I mean even Tether has been accused in the past and up to now, that they are running on fractional reserves and yet they continue to stand up despite this huge accusations against them. So same with exchanges for me, if you have trust lets say Binance in the past and you don't have any bad experience with them, then definitely you are not affected by this whole PoR and you will continue to trade with them no matter what, in my opinion.
I mean even Tether has been accused in the past and up to now, that they are running on fractional reserves and yet they continue to stand up despite this huge accusations against them. So same with exchanges for me, if you have trust lets say Binance in the past and you don't have any bad experience with them, then definitely you are not affected by this whole PoR and you will continue to trade with them no matter what, in my opinion.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
No, I think PoR alone is not enough to gain user trust, did you know that some time ago there was information that stated that various exchanges formed a coalition to lend and borrow funds for PoR purposes? Because of that, PoR alone is not enough, exchanges need to also make their PoL (Proof-of-Liability) reports, with the combination of PoR and PoL, I think it will be enough to gain users' trust.
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
I also noticed recently that coinmarketcap added the parameter "exchange reserve funds data available" on their list of exchanges after a few of the big exchanges like Binance, KuCoin and Bitfinex have published their reserve funds. So i can imagine that if a new person joins the crypto space and is looking for an exchange to buy it's tokens then it could definitely make the difference if a exchange has published their reserve funds. As you already said though i don't think that there is a way to make 100% sure though that those reserve funds are really owned completely by the exchagnes itself or if there are also some coins of their users contained.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
This is not enough of course but knowing the PoR from CEX can at least give you peace of mind but again, it is still not advisable to hold too much money on any exchanges because the worst can still happen and that PoR might not be enough to cover all the losses. We have to learned from happened to FTX and other exchanges before, holding crypto on any exchanges for long term is not safe, so start using hard wallet now or other cold wallet where you have control, exchanges seems to be more risky in long term. Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
And who will say if they have PoR or not? CZ? doesn't make sense because he has his own exchange and the numbers he is putting on his controlled coinmarketcap as far as the ratings of exchanges are not to be trusted.
So it's either we trust the exchange that we are using right now or not and move to others, simply as that.
PoR wouldn't add anything to us, at least that's how I see this all PoR that exchanges are trying to do.
So it's either we trust the exchange that we are using right now or not and move to others, simply as that.
PoR wouldn't add anything to us, at least that's how I see this all PoR that exchanges are trying to do.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
No, I think PoR alone is not enough to gain user trust, did you know that some time ago there was information that stated that various exchanges formed a coalition to lend and borrow funds for PoR purposes? Because of that, PoR alone is not enough, exchanges need to also make their PoL (Proof-of-Liability) reports, with the combination of PoR and PoL, I think it will be enough to gain users' trust.
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Proof of reserve is a good idea and Binance has already implemented this to show their liquidity to their users. That worked well for them! I am not sure if anyone else is doing that, but if other exchanges are planning to follow the same, that will be great!
However, that's not the only indicator you should rely on. It doesn't show their debt in the market. It doesn't show where they have invested their money. It doesn't show how quickly they can liquidate their investment if needed.
In order to achieve complete control of your funds, either move to a decentralized exchange that doesn't hold your fund, or stop keeping your funds in the exchange wallet. As simple as that!
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Of course we can't get enough, maybe for the meantime we see that it creates an assurance that it has transparency but if issue arise, people will doubt it. Overall the solution will be monopolized by the government by implementing a regulation to these centralized exchanges. 
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
Since Proof of Reserve is a new thing it would be too soon to say whether it is enough to regain user trust.
It also depends on what is the proof of reserve and it's significance on the users.
But I must say that Binance has played it really smart. They have gone to the safer side with the PoR.
It is at least better than no audit at all.
Yes if they will submit the PROPER PoR that records all information including assets and liabilities of exchange. Most of the exchange only provides there balance on there hot wallet which is not enough basis that they are really holding enough funds to cover all users balance 1:1. Remember that FTX issue arise when there balance sheet is already not enough to cover user balance 1:1 after one of there biggest investors remove there investment.
This information should be given too as subsequent documents to PoR to verify if the reserves is still sufficient or not. Current CEX PoR is useless and just a props to quench the doubt and curiosity of all there user. CZ introduced a fancy merkle tree for this but still not enough to explained the complete balance sheet of Binance.
This information should be given too as subsequent documents to PoR to verify if the reserves is still sufficient or not. Current CEX PoR is useless and just a props to quench the doubt and curiosity of all there user. CZ introduced a fancy merkle tree for this but still not enough to explained the complete balance sheet of Binance.
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
The exchange site operational cost was a lot and relying from the fees will not be enough to keep the exchange site alive for long term. Doing diversification was a must but the exchange site wanna get instant return and that's why most of them were using client's fund for debt, re investing or etc. I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
The problem is exchange site like ftx was using too much user's money. that was draining liquidity.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
You'r not missing something. The blockchain itself was transparent but the exchange site itself didn't wanna try to reveal the reserved funds owned by exchange site. Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
It's enough as long as the exchange site wanna publish the place that being used to store the reserved funds. At least we can track it easily and know what has been happening with reserved funds 
Announcing proof of reserve would be a plus to those who would but we just cannot demand for it. Best thing is to do our part of responsibility such as not storing huge amount in exchangers treating it like a wallet. Also, from being in this industry for years, this is the first time I've saw an actual negligence from exchanger's end so I think it would be wrong to generalize the situation for it would just complicate things. Risk is always involved in this industry and losing is a part of it. So if you cannot endure things (i'm not normalizing what happened), or even look with the possibility, then investments might probably not suit you.
As far as I know, only Binance has come out to announce their proof of reserve idea - in fact, I think they are the first to come up with this, so I don't know why you are saying 'several'.
I don't think users have any choice but to deal with exchanges even if they can not trust them enough, but this is just my opinion because despite what happened some people will still not find it necessary to store their funds in their personal wallet, users are as guilty as the exchange.
If people can use exchanges the way they should be used such an incident will not occur, exchanges are created to enable investors buy their desired crypto and store it in personal wallets not use the exchange as their personal wallets.
Im one with this side. I'd choose to make the adjustment as an investor because that's the right thing to do than to try seeking for changes from them.
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
As far as I know, only Binance has come out to announce their proof of reserve idea - in fact, I think they are the first to come up with this, so I don't know why you are saying 'several'.
I don't think users have any choice but to deal with exchanges even if they can not trust them enough, but this is just my opinion because despite what happened some people will still not find it necessary to store their funds in their personal wallet, users are as guilty as the exchange.
If people can use exchanges the way they should be used such an incident will not occur, exchanges are created to enable investors buy their desired crypto and store it in personal wallets not use the exchange as their personal wallets.
At least though it's better to see how big their wallet is, as far as supporting the trades 24x7.
And I do agree that it is not the perfect solution, and only top tier exchanges can do this. As far as trust goes, it's subjective, so we shall see, still open for debate.
Even coinmarketcap added something like "confidence" in exchanges in their rankings.
https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/
And I do agree that it is not the perfect solution, and only top tier exchanges can do this. As far as trust goes, it's subjective, so we shall see, still open for debate.
Even coinmarketcap added something like "confidence" in exchanges in their rankings.
https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
As far as I know, only Binance has come out to announce their proof of reserve idea - in fact, I think they are the first to come up with this, so I don't know why you are saying 'several'.
I don't think users have any choice but to deal with exchanges even if they can not trust them enough, but this is just my opinion because despite what happened some people will still not find it necessary to store their funds in their personal wallet, users are as guilty as the exchange.
If people can use exchanges the way they should be used such an incident will not occur, exchanges are created to enable investors buy their desired crypto and store it in personal wallets not use the exchange as their personal wallets.
GM crypto fam. Happy December!
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
I've seen that several exchanges are trying to increase client transparency after the FTX crash by disclosing their Proof of Reserves. Since there is no way to determine whether the exchange is not using client funds to cover hidden debt or anything, I personally don't buy any of this.
Since I'm genuinely unsure of whether I'm missing something, I figured I might get some helpful insights from more experienced people here.
Is PoR actually enough after all that has happened so far?
Source: https://app.getresponse.com/view.html?x=a62b&m=BVGySe&mc=9I&s=BtgXWnG&u=QcLhh&z=EShzGUd&
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