Can IRS go after Sotoshi for unfiled income tax

brucesewell

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Quote from: Light on March 07, 2014, 02:57:50 AM

At the current time short of a message from one of his accounts or a signed message from one of his keys there is no way to know for sure if he is Satoshi. Even if he was it would be hard for the government to force him to pay taxes on Bitcoin considering they cannot definitively prove he owns x amount of coins .

Unless the ecosystem around bitcoin is build, the owner eventually will need to exchange for fiat realize the fortune. So maybe government should track the account regardless who is behind the account.

keithers

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The only way he would be flagged is if there were a ton of deposits for over 5k each that he could not write off.

brucesewell

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Quote from: Light on March 07, 2014, 02:57:50 AM

At the current time short of a message from one of his accounts or a signed message from one of his keys there is no way to know for sure if he is Satoshi. Even if he was it would be hard for the government to force him to pay taxes on Bitcoin considering they cannot definitively prove he owns x amount of coins .

This triggers another question. Can the government force to freeze any account if it has legitimate reason to believe that the account holder is a US citizen and therefore asks to build in the open source bitcoin client software certain rules to refuse to transact with the account until income is filed. Just like the hacked bitcoin from mtgox.

The bigger question is, is it desirable?

BTCisthefuture

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Quote from: Light on March 07, 2014, 02:57:50 AM

At the current time short of a message from one of his accounts or a signed message from one of his keys there is no way to know for sure if he is Satoshi. Even if he was it would be hard for the government to force him to pay taxes on Bitcoin considering they cannot definitively prove he owns x amount of coins .

good point. how do you make someone pay taxes on something you can prove is theirs.

BTCisthefuture

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as far as i know there's currently no tax on simply mining bitcoin and he would have to convert it to fiat first.

with that said.... if a guy in america gets half a billion dollars out of thin air. it wouldnt be shocking if the government suddenly said "hey you owe us money, pay us now!" . The government is pretty greedy and tends to not like people making large sums of money without getting their cut, even if that person has never touched or used that money.

Light

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Circa 2010

At the current time short of a message from one of his accounts or a signed message from one of his keys there is no way to know for sure if he is Satoshi. Even if he was it would be hard for the government to force him to pay taxes on Bitcoin considering they cannot definitively prove he owns x amount of coins .

brucesewell

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Quote from: BrewCrewFan on March 07, 2014, 02:22:09 AM

Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:17:36 AM

Quote from: BrewCrewFan on March 07, 2014, 02:07:43 AM

Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:02:06 AM

Wow, just think about it how much money will go to Obama... Now IRS may have the best interest to keep Sotoshi safe, whoever he/she is.

How it has not been converted to FIAT so they have no way to get him for taxes.

But in theory, it is taxable income. Just like property tax, you will pay eventually. That is what I am saying, before Sotoshi pays, irs has the best interest to keep him safe.

Eventually yes, if he even uses it.

I am not sure how all that tax stuff works like with stocks when you make profit off stocks and turn it into more stocks ect ect... the only real example I have from real life is the 401K which from my understanding is not taxable as long as the cash never hits your hands... so I imagine this would fall under the same rules.

401k is created by the congress to set an exception to the general rule that all incomes are taxable. You can defer your payment of tax when you retire, so as to give you an incentive to be financially responsible for your retire life.

Bitcoin, if you treat it as intangible property, than there is no legal barrier for levying income tax when the income is realized. Even better, irs may pass a rule to realize bitcoin is income itself as it is currency in itself!

BrewCrewFan

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Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:17:36 AM

Quote from: BrewCrewFan on March 07, 2014, 02:07:43 AM

Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:02:06 AM

Wow, just think about it how much money will go to Obama... Now IRS may have the best interest to keep Sotoshi safe, whoever he/she is.

How it has not been converted to FIAT so they have no way to get him for taxes.

But in theory, it is taxable income. Just like property tax, you will pay eventually. That is what I am saying, before Sotoshi pays, irs has the best interest to keep him safe.

Eventually yes, if he even uses it.

I am not sure how all that tax stuff works like with stocks when you make profit off stocks and turn it into more stocks ect ect... the only real example I have from real life is the 401K which from my understanding is not taxable as long as the cash never hits your hands... so I imagine this would fall under the same rules.

brucesewell

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Quote from: BrewCrewFan on March 07, 2014, 02:07:43 AM

Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:02:06 AM

Wow, just think about it how much money will go to Obama... Now IRS may have the best interest to keep Sotoshi safe, whoever he/she is.

How it has not been converted to FIAT so they have no way to get him for taxes.

But in theory, it is taxable income. Just like property tax, you will pay eventually. That is what I am saying, before Sotoshi pays, irs has the best interest to keep him safe.

Bigeyeone

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as long as Satoshi does not sell his bitcoins for $ or does not buy goods with his bitcoins, the way i understand things from a blog of a US lawyer, he has not made capital gains according to the US tax code as he does not need to pay taxes

AllAboutTheBenjaminsBaby

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Do you know what income is?

jaybny

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Proof-of-Skill - protoblock.com

mods.. shut OP!

seriouscoin

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Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:02:06 AM

Wow, just think about it how much money will go to Obama... Now IRS may have the best interest to keep Sotoshi safe, whoever he/she is.

are you like 10 or something? asking such a basic question

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: BrewCrewFan on March 07, 2014, 02:07:43 AM

Quote from: brucesewell on March 07, 2014, 02:02:06 AM

Wow, just think about it how much money will go to Obama... Now IRS may have the best interest to keep Sotoshi safe, whoever he/she is.

How it has not been converted to FIAT so they have no way to get him for taxes.

This as we can all verify that the Bitcoins have not moved no fiat gain means no taxes

EDIT: Sure they can go after Sotoshi no one knows who he is Grin