Topic: Can Satoshi Nakamoto remove the 21 million BTC limit? (Read 725 times)

Due to bad habits in assets other than bitcoin, which has a negative effect and side effect for a developer in maintaining sales and possibly increasing income , until the perspective of some observers arises that there will be a denial or even a chance of being replaced with another coin by Mr. Satoshi. Possible to be a replacement even though it might not happen and not deny the whitepaper. I think satoshi is still holding firm so that the above habits are not included in bitcoin and maintain stability and even continue to shine from halving to halving.

The habit of people in DCA bitcoin in my opinion there is no doubt, because anyone can claim the possibilities that occur, even with satoshi has not appeared again until now, but I admit Mr. satoshi is an anonymous person who successfully makes the coin run by itself and unites the two market segments harmoniously. I hope BTC will still be popular now, later and so on.

Depends on both the volume of incoming transaction and the size of miners competed for those fees. No one can foresee the future thus all speculations on this matter are not far from the coffee cup reading.

Bitcoin is a new technique in  transferring value and two opposite  outcomes are equally possible.

I think Jamie just wants to convince people that Bitcoin is the bad guy by speaking about it with zero knowledge in the domain.  And some people take Bitcoin price predictions by J P Morgan with no salt?  I would take them with a spoon full of it!

It only shows something about the ones who govern us.  Jamie Dimon included, because I really doubt he has nothing to do with how the world runs.  The elderly barely know how Bitcoin works yet they always comment on it.  The United States has Bitcoin laws governed by people who have only up to a decade left to live probably.  It really sucks!

Let the elder man be and stop giving him attention.  Jamie is never going to support the Currency that was created as a protective shield for the people against Banks.  It is like telling me Jeff Bezos would support their biggest competitor.  Never, unless they are in the same boat.

How is that even possible as Bitcoin is not a physical object or it can be printed. It is a software code and in order to reconfigure it a new set of codes need to be written. If a new set of codes a written then a new cryptocurrency would be made and zero changes will happen to Bitcoin. This proves how individuals in big position still are clueless about Bitcoin and why such individuals get trolled when they are online.

Bitcoin has a fixed supply of 21 million Bitcoin but we have satoshi as you can send fractions of satoshi therefore Bitcoin supply doesn't need any alterations. Anyone that wants to do that will only get himself his own Bitcoin and they'll all fail like Bitcoin cash, Bitcoin sv and the rest of the forks that all failed. Satoshi himself can't alter the supply of Bitcoin as Bitcoin is no longer under his control although he started the whole thing but Bitcoin is now owned by the community and we have the final say. Any alterations to Bitcoin supply creates another altcoins while Bitcoin will still be existing.

Satoshi needs the community approval to do that but lets say he somehow removing the whole 21 million supply limits, it takes aways the Identity of Bitcoin and just proves that it's actually a centralized coin and not decentralized as it claims but that won't happen so we can't stop thinking about that and concentrate on how we can lower the fees and make the network less congested and more appealing to merchants so they can accept Bitcoin and increase the adoption of the currency.

you are absolutely right about that. and a lot of shitty Bitcoin forks are alraedy there to prove that. I think Jamie just want to inflate Bitcoin like Fiat so he can own more and more, he think he can be wealthier like that.
Thankfully Bitcoin community have sensible people who wouldn't let that happen.

no one give anyone rights of becoming critique of cryptocurrency. it's everyone's personal choice and decidions to become a critique. now it is upto the community to listen and believe that person or not. and we can clearly see that no one taking Jamie seriously here in this community and I am pretty sure no one would take him seriously anywhere else outside of this forum.
So don't worry about whatever he says because we can't shut anyone off..

I do not agree with Jamie Dimon idea that Satoshi Nakamoto may increase the number of bitcoins. The fixed amount is 21 million bitcoins is one of the main reasons that's why bitcoin is valuable and rare. By being similar to gold, bitcoin can be a way to store value and protect against inflation. If there were unlimited supply of bitcoins it would make bitcoin less trust and can be caused hyperinflation. Also because bitcoin is decentralised no one person including Satoshi Nakamoto can change the rules by themselves. So, I think the limit of 21 million bitcoins will stay the same which will keep the bitcoin stable and valuable in the long run.

The straightforward answer to this question is a big noooooooo! Satoshi Nakamoto can't remove the 21 million Bitcoin limit because he's no more the owner of Bitcoin, the community the current owner of Bitcoin.

Even if Satoshi wants to do something like this then he won't be able to do it. He can remove the limit if he can convince the community that it's for good of Bitcoin but I doubt even Satoshi Nakamoto will be able to convince the whole community for such action.

Jamie Dimon just want public attention and nothing else, that guy is more like a newbie who doesn't know much about the Bitcoin and its protocol. He has been skeptical about Bitcoin because he missed the chance to purchase Bitcoin when it was below $10 per coin and now he's just making such fake attempts to get some attention from the community. Nothing else than that.

Since Satoshi Nakamoto is the creator of Bitcoin the matter what if he decides to add more I think he can do that and the only thing it will affect the Bitcoin network because Bitcoin is decentralized. But  JPMorgan and Jamie Dimon are just a mere speculators which you have already said that they're critics of Bitcoin. To add will be possible but to erase will not be possible.

Those who don't like Bitcoin always come up with different stories to make people afraid and leave Bitcoin but that stage of Bitcoin has passed and not now again. Every Bitcoiner is getting stronger in the bitcoin investment. Therefore all those articles are just a mere formulation of stories to scare people.

That would definitely be a sight to see that would also occur in like 120 years or something like this as the last percent of these coins will be a painstakingly long process and very little mining reward in the end.

Jamie Dimon will never stop yapping about stuff that don't make sense, they're so used to the fact that the Federal Reserve can always just print more banknotes whenever they want that they think that it's the same thing for bitcoin. This reminded me of that one meme, I do remember it and I think that it fits perfectly with the discussion.

Just like I said it depends if we continue to have this upward movement of bitcoin price over the years that’s when we will say the price of bitcoin will try to cover for the lack of block subsidy, but still it wouldn’t totally covers the incentive except the charge for the transaction fees is very high like the ones we experienced during the end of last year which even put the transaction fees for a particular block to be higher than that block subsidy. But as for regular transaction fee charges no it wouldn’t cover totally.

Why I brought the bitcoin price to cover for the halving of block rewards is because the past trend have actually proven that. Take for an example the block reward now is 6.25 which on current bitcoin is equivalent to $260k when the reward gets halved to 3.125 and we possibly see a bitcoin price raise to something like a $100 then it’s equivalent will be $312k which is higher than now.

So in essence the value of tx fees (even if the amount of bitcoin for the tx fee) are going to increase to cover the lack of block reward. So if we paid a $10 tx fee before, after the halving it would rise to around $20. So then the problem arises as you mentioned for micro transactions we can't really use Bitcoin. Thus wouldn't Bitcoin lose its utility as a currency?
Unless we start thinking of currency in terms of Bitcoin instead of converting it to dollars in our heads. In this case tx fees don't really change when block reward stops, they stay similar in terms of amount in BTC.

I doubt that the majority of Bitcoin community will just blindly follow whatever Satoshi offers. This could be true in the early days when he was active and the community was small and there wasn't much knowledge about Bitcoin's technology, but today Bitcoin community already demonstrated that it knows where it stands, when it rejected the SegWit2x fork and all the other big block forks and chose to stick with the Core developers.

No he can't. The thing that people mistake bitcoin for is that they assume it could be altered by its main developers or Satoshi Nakamoto himself, But that wouldn't happen and that couldn't happen because of its immutable technology.

People have tried to argue otherwise in the past to no avail, plus the community almost always agree to never touch anything within bitcoin's code or system which is why we're still dealing with the aftermath of the blocksize wars to this day. It's just going to be the case till the end of bitcoin's existence and no one will be able to change the 21 million supply, or anything that is related to bitcoin for that matter. If you want to change bitcoin you're going to have to issue a hard fork that will create another form of bitcoin with your own sets of bells and whistles. But bitcoin classic will remain the same as it is and you can't change that.

By then I think the solution lies in the Satoshis. Right now they don't mean shit but when bitcoin becomes so valuable that even mining it would mean useless like what you're trying to suppose here, Satoshis will be the miner's best friend. I'm not really sure how viable this is but as someone who's been in the industry for a while now this question has been asked quite a couple times and I've seen people talk about sats being the solution to this valuation problem.

Exactly the only way is to create a new cryptocurrency in the form of a hard fork and put up a higher number of supply but for bitcoin it can’t just be done the way we see it, Satoshi doesn’t have that power again to make an individual decision even though he is around that’s how decentralized bitcoin has grown to. A consensus must be reached before any effective change takes place if not the change wouldn’t be effective and it will just result into creation of a new coin just like the likes of Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold and Bitcoin Diamond and no real use of it. The issue do this 21 million bitcoin is what even adds value to bitcoin because something that’s scarce is also expensive.

Yes after all bitcoin have mined, Miners will definitely depend on transaction fees as the only incentives, we have discussed that many often in this forum. Miners already are having incentives from transaction fee which are much more than the block reward itself. A thing you need to know is transaction fee are charged in bitcoin, base on current rate of bitcoin price raise the price increase might be actually help, for example after the second bitcoin halving when the reward was reduced to 12.5 bitcoin you can clearly see that the current 6.25 is almost equivalent to it in terms of the fees. So this could actually help in the future too but the problem will be, will bitcoin be ok for micro transactions due to the fees that will be paid then?

I do have one concern that pertains to this very subject.  What happens when the miners begin to mine in the .00344 range or .000022 range?  I would try to considered the fact that the average person has trouble counting into the hundreds let alone the thousands and the numbers in the future will feel backwards to the average person.  This isn't going to make BTC obsolete or anything.  However, it by no means is going to add value to BTC.  What will we do?  Begin to browse Amazon for an item and try to purchase something with .000025 BTC?  I know this creates a problem.  Who has the solution?  Altcoins etc?  When does BTC decouple from the fiat?  LOLz BTC

The number of negative comments on and about Bitcoin over the years has become insanely much but Bitcoin is always coming out strong.

Considering the comment he has made, I don't see the reality of it as it is not any different from what others have said. It is also a tech and can be mirrored by fellow tech gurus, the possibility has not been seen to exist and there is no fact to back his state. I consider his statement baseless.

Anything that will alter the consensus on which bitcoin was built on will only make it lose its trust and value in the face of the people who have total trust in the system. If it has been built to only have a maximum supply of 21 million BTC, it would only make it more harder for it to be regulated or tempered with even after all coins have been mined. Changing the consensus now will be detrimental to the existence of the coin. Let’s just assume this to be a critics statement and just saying it to see the reaction of the bitcoin enthusiasts.

It's technically possible if a consensus can be reached, but only one problem with this removal of the 21 million limit  is that Bitcoin isn't run by one man as it needs other stake holders to buy in into this idea of a fork which is likely to have a negative impact on price as this could take its value lower...
And Satoshi being a smart lad I don't think this change would benefit anyone especially that he understands the dynamics of supply and demand on price, Bitcoin is better won't any change to its total allocation...

You're right, that's just an assessment by OP where a question like that might just pop up because for others it doesn't make sense. Then, for me, it is also impossible to remove the 21 million bitcoin supply again. Do you believe the OP's opinion?

That's why most of the people who commented here also don't believe and agree with what Op said, to be honest. Then it's right that it doesn't pose a threat to us, actually.

I would say they are making no sense with their remarks. First off, Satoshi is not coming back, and even if he did, he wouldn't come back and spoil what his creation has achieved so far by removing the limit on the supply and increasing it which would affect the value of the coin significantly, of course. Secondly, the whole cryptocurrency industry will start having doubts and lose trust in Bitcoin if something like that happens, I can't even think about it theoretically.

Satoshi created Bitcoin as a decentralized cryptocurrency that would be running on a public chain that would be controlled by miners who would use their computing power to mine blocks. He can't just come out of nowhere and make changes in the network when all the miners have been helping the blockchain work since the beginning.

I think this is just the opinion of one person and also a criticism of Bitcoin about the possible lifting of restrictions on the number of Bitcoins. And this opinion does not pose any threat to the principles of Bitcoin itself, including its limited supply. On the other hand, this may provoke uncertainty in the market...in any case, I think that over such a long period of Bitcoin’s existence, many have not yet doubted its main properties. So let me emphasize, this is just one person's opinion.

The fact that anyone can criticise in any way will not change anything in Bitcoin. A comment from Jamie Dimon made me wonder how he views Bitcoin. The total supply of Bitcoin is already said to be 21 million. If Satoshi Nakamoto takes any decision to increase or decrease this supply, BTC's grave will be written. It will be clear that he has been anonymous for a long time. But I consider these things to be fictional stories. Any such attempt will fail completely. Moreover, if any such action is implemented, how can we call it decentralised? I think Jamie Dimon has no basis for such words.

He should understand that even if Satoshi reappears today, he will be like any other developer maintaining bitcoin or like any other decision maker. His decision will not be the ultimate. This alone should negate the type of question an acclaimed CEO asked. Does he understand the power of open source? Now, let's assume that Satoshi has reappeared and has the power to change the 21 million cap, how will that benefit Satoshi as a person?
I don't know if it is better to be a full member in bitcointalk forum than to be a CEO of what one does not understand.

How dumb the crypto community is becoming to give someone with no knowledge of basics as critique of cryptocurrency.

If Satoshi came and hard fork to bring more coins off a new branch it will be just another coin not just bitcoin and people won't use that coin but why Satoshi will do that?

“His rhetoric, using terms like ‘blockchain’ and shipcoin buzzwords, sounds very suspicious to me. Everything he says is not on my ‘trust but verify’ list; it’s at the ‘Zero trust’ level.”

Janie Dimon only knows about fiat, and thinks that because he is successful means that he knows about bitcoin technology. I wouldn't blame him for such thinking and speech because this is how the government manipulate fiat by printing more money and he has brought that thought into his head, forgetting that bitcoin has a protocol and it is design to follow such protocol. He has shown the public that he doesn't understand anything about bitcoin and that there is no back door to bitcoin manipulation. It is because of the way that bitcoin was designed that made it more valuable and impossible for anyone to change anything in its design. The nodes are programmed to to make their own decisions and all nodes decisions are the same, this makes it difficult for anyone to change anything because bitcoin network gives complete decentralization.

The thought of Bitcoin increasing more than its initial 21 million cap is a fright to start with. Everyone knows that will kill Bitcoin and inversely, the crypto industry. I've yet to see any project whose initial cap got increased and it retained its performance before tokens were added. It has always been the near death of such a project. A few projects I invested in that did that actually couldn't recover from such action. They rebranded and moved to other chains, yet it ended in futility. Those where even projects said to be centralized. If such happens to a decentralized project like Bitcoin the community's confident level will nosedive immediately. I wouldn't put a cent on it, myself.

Jamie Dimon, expressed his personal opinion and that is what it is, he can not speak for the multitude of adopters that have accepted Bitcoin the way Satoshi Nakamoto, designed it, Bitcoin ETF has happened, bull run is building up in top gear, and investors are increasing, there's nothing to worry about. I believe that nothing can alter the 21million Bitcoin limit, he is a Bitcoin hater so we shouldn't expect anything good about Bitcoin from him and other critics.

I think so too. The decentralized nature of BTC is a key feature that sets it apart.. It's important we seek information from reliable sources when learning about BTC, rather than relying on criticisms from those who may not fully understand its principles, like Jamie Dimon i think?

Satoshi created BTC, but does not control BTC; that is the beauty of the network, freedom, permissionless and censorship resistant. Satoshi didn't create the network in such a way that he could come back at any time and take an arbitrary decision, if it were created in that way, so many people would not have bothered to use BTC or have any interest in it.

Sometimes people say what they do not understand because they want to criticize, or maybe they even understand it but they just want to elicit some kind of reaction from people. I'll advise that if people want to get good information about BTC they should not listen to Jamie Dimon.

It's not about opinions or beliefs here; there's a hard-coded cap in Bitcoin's protocol that tops out at 21 million coins. But many people forget that Bitcoin is open source. Anyone can poke around the code, do the math themselves, and see that hard stop.  

So when some people claim that developers or insiders could change the 21 million mark if they wanted, they're showing that they obviously don't know what they're talking about.  No such 'limit per se actually exists.  You've got block rewards that keep halving on a set schedule and  past that it's just simple multiplication - the protocol handles the rest.  So if somebody says otherwise, take it with a grain of salt.  The coin count itself might be abstract, but the logic governing it is carved in stone.

I'm guessing, after years of bashing bitcoin, Dimon has at least done basic research on what Bitcoin is enough to know why the 21 million limit can never be changed. As a banker, I doubt he would hate Bitcoin so much if he didn't have a clue how it worked and how powerful it is, otherwise he would have no reason to be afraid of it and no reason to hate it.

But, being a bitcoin hater, he understands that the vast majority of people have essentially zero knowledge of how bitcoin works and so most people don't actually understand why the supply cap can't be changed, and he is trying to attack bitcoin by sowing doubt in their minds. He's hoping to turn off potential future bitcoiners by seeding lies about Bitcoin in their minds.

The amount of bitcoin to be in supply must have been really considered before bitcoins were limited to 21 million. And also, with many things that has happened to bitcoins and all the milestones it has reached, Satoshi has remained silent and still anonymous. I do not see a situation that the amount of bitcoin be increased when the 21 million and decimals have been mined. Bitcoins will also still in circulation, there will still be buying and selling ongoing, and also use as currency, so there will not be a need to try to increase the amount available.

First of all let's loot at the possibility for that, this is something that had already been programmed to only exist under the limit of 21 millions bitcoin to be mined, after this, the miners will have no reason to get stranded because they will depend on transaction fees, accepting this also will mean that bitcoin doesn't have a fix supply which we have already been preaching about and that equally makes no difference with fiat with unlimited supply, having this alone could make some believed it could be manipulated and untrusted.

JP Morgan and Jamie Dimon might have only suggested this as the way they feel and not bringing it as an idea to see come through, this is more of an interrogation through the media and everyone speaking his own opinion, which could really be something entirely different from the way bitcoin is or can be, but that doesn't suggest the things we should also expect to be in the same direction on what they are thinking about, the bitcoin network was set, it's working perfectly as it has been created for and there's no more to add or deduct irrespective of the people's opinions except the developers shift ground which is likely most impossible.

the limited supply of 21 million bitcoins is an advantage that differentiates bitcoin compared to other banking products. with a limited supply, it makes bitcoin more valuable (limited supply will make the value increase in line with increasing demand).

any attempt to increase the supply of bitcoin is a stupid thing done by stupid people who want to destroy the credibility of bitcoin. because forever there will be 21 million bitcoins and it will not increase or decrease.

so instead of wasting energy trying to intervene in bitcoin, it would be better for jamie to develop his own coin and try to offer it to other people who want it.

My question would be.... Why would anyone be stupid enough to accept this? When you increase the supply ...you decrease the value of your current coins.

So network participants will not run that code and it will have to go to a Hard fork that almost nobody would support. It will be interesting to do this and to see what the response would be, just to prove to Jamie Dimon and the other haters that they are clueless. (Bitcoin is not like Fiat currency, you cannot simply switch on the money printers and increase the supply... you need consensus from the participants in that network)   

Not enough bitcoins for a bitcoin critic?

Whatever they say, this is all pure speculation on this topic. All the words spoken by Bitcoin critics are aimed at highlighting the shortcomings of bitcoin and demonizing it.

In theory, anything is possible, but in practice, the probability of this is about zero.

In one of his posts here @satoshi said:

This statement goes against what Jamie Dimon said, which makes Jamie Dimon’s words meaningless and far from reality.

It is somewhat understandable that a senior citizen has a poor understanding of how Bitcoin works. Unfortunately, this is how a lot of anti-Bitcoin people think. The ones who are the loudest about wanting to see Bitcoin banned often lack enough comprehension to even know what they are opposing.

Dimon’s statement is reminiscent of Elizabeth Warren’s “shadowy super coders” comment. It is fine to be ignorant on certain subjects but these politicians and banking elites who have shown ineptitude in regard to Bitcoin should not be the ones influencing policy on this matter.

https://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2009-January/014994.html

Satoshi Nakomoto have already made himself out of the bitcoin space and does not want to attach himself to the advancement and future of the bitcoin technology. I know there's this curiosity that have been created in the minds of bitcoin users about the Bitcoin founder's influence in the future of the bitcoin technology.

I have been as curious as any other person about Satoshi Nakomoto and Bitcoin. However, I know he has gone and gone for the good so the bitcoin future is right in our own hands and we have the ability to determine, to a very large extent, the future of the bitcoin technology.

To be critic of something, one must first understand that thing!
A criminal like Jamie Dimon neither understands Bitcoin nor wants to. He is a FUD spreader when it comes to Bitcoin.

It's not even worth discussing here and wasting our time. His FUD about "bitcoin is fraud" is not forgotten and this new FUD is also the continuation of his FUD campaign against Bitcoin.

I agree with one of your statements that if the Bitcoin supply limit is increased then many people will lose faith in Bitcoin.  Because people are more attracted to Bitcoin because of its limited supply limit and its popularity, many people hold Bitcoin in the belief that the price of Bitcoin will increase a lot in the future. So if it is now announced that the supply limit of Bitcoin has been increased then people's confidence in Bitcoin will go away. So I don't agree with increasing the supply of Bitcoin either. It should remain as it is so that Bitcoin does not lose its value

Yeah and Mr. Trump is not a fan of this as he wanted it to remain decentralized and of course we all wanted the same. Whales and institutions will surely dump huge amount of their Bitcoins if it will happen no doubt about that and that would be very disastrous to the crypto community and market.

With the price Bitcoin has now and the potential it can reach in the future, I doubt what Dimon "The Demon" is saying. This is what I called him because everything he said is not true and most people know that.

Like, if I were the one who made or created Bitcoin, why would I remove that total supply when I see that it has already helped many people with financial problems around the world and that Bitcoin has become a way to solve the problems of most people around the world? So the purpose of creating Bitcoin is to provide a solution to the institution's financial problems. Right?

Dimon has a way of making a fool of himself, it's normal for him to go wandering around with the things he says about Bitcoin if he doesn't know the basics. You don't have to have great technical knowledge to know that and that the only way there would be to do it is to make a fork to which the majority of the community would change, as adaseb says. I didn't pay much attention to what he says already, but after seeing this, less so.

And we don't even know if he's still alive. Besides all down if increasing the supply, most likely it won't ever be possible to be made.

Satoshi himself can’t really do much anymore. He can update the code but you need to have the majority accept it and run the nodes and miners to switch over.

This is the reason why it took forever to get segwit activated, it was very controversial at the time and many refused to signal that they allow the segwit fork to happen.

So I doubt he will be able to double the supply, the chain would die pretty much. No miner would mine a chain that they knew would dump in value.

Many aspects have been taken into account by the originator of Bitcoin including its anonymous identity, basic aspects that are only available in 21 million Bitcoins including its decentralized nature. When Satoshi introduced Bitcoin to the public, at that time he was 100% sure that his creation was perfect. lifting the limit on the number of bitcoins could increase miners' income in the short term, but it would highlight one of the main arguments for investing in Bitcoin, namely its scarcity.

One of the attractions of investors starting to come to the Bitcoin industry is because of its fixed supply, lifting the limit on the number of bitcoins could remove a fundamental driver of Bitcoin's value proposition. In theory this change would increase miner income in Bitcoin, but this change would cause a huge price drop resulting in miner losses in fiat.


Source: Can Bitcoin's hard cap of 21 million be changed?

I think there are far more bitcoins:

OK, not exactly bitcoins but units of bitcoins that can be used. Each Bitcoin can be split into Satoshies, 100 millionst of a Bitcoin.

So the total amount of available Bitcoins units  (Satoshies) is 21 million x 100 million. So plenty of units.....

So maybe in the far future we are discussing the value of Satoshies instead of the value of a single Bitcoin.....

Just saying

Basically, we don't need Satoshi but need community consensus if we want to change the bitcoin supply limit. But you're right, if this happens then people will no longer trust bitcoin because if they can change it once they can do it many times. So I think that even if it was proposed by Satoshi, not too many people would agree because it would reduce the credibility of bitcoin.

Personally, I would not support the idea of increasing the supply of bitcoin, the scarcity of bitcoin is the beauty that makes it completely different from the rest of the assets. If we break that, we are destroying bitcoin.

The problem with that proposition is that all the people that's worshipping Satoshi will just blindly allow and agree on the things that he's going to happen, there will be people that's going to ask questions that will challenge the propositions but his army of blind believers will defend him to the end. I don't think that he's ever going to do that though, it's more than a decade already and I don't think that he'll be able to remember all the stuff that he's done on that and he's going to need a lot of catching up to do with the updates on bitcoin and it would be counterintuitive for Satoshi to do that because he's the richest bitcoin hodler in history and adding an additional to the 21 million total supply is gong to be problematic for him, it's unlikely what Dimon says will be done by Satoshi, he's a greedy asshole that worships money and so that's what he thinks of Satoshi, he's an apathetic asshole that can never put his feet on other people's shoes, he will die as a money hungry asshole.

Bitcoin is fully decentralized and it is fundamentally created so that only 21 million Bitcoins will ever be created.  I don't know if this is possible and on the other hand if the person or group named Sotoshi is still alive.  And do they have the ability to edit Bitcoin since it is built to be decentralized.  And all Bitcoin users know that the supply of Bitcoin is limited, so if the limit is increased, it is a big question whether people will have such confidence in Bitcoin.

One shouldn't anymore mind Jamie Dimon's ignorant suspicions and statements. He has already mentioned about this several times in national television. Such ignorant statements, but he doesn't seem to show interest about Bitcoin, so he can never understand the absurdity of his statements.

A lot of people have already corrected him, provided him explanations how it is impossible to happen, but since he doesn't mind about their answers, he continues saying false things about Bitcoin. So we should just ignore him. It's just unfortunate that he's actually globally influential in finance.

I don't think Satoshi Nakamoto will make him/their self available about anything Bitcoin again, he/they have done what he/they needed to do, and nothing else should be expected of him/them again. If he/they had wanted to influence Bitcoin further, he/they would have done enough to the issues that caused the high fees, but since he/they have done his/their part and left the rest to everyone to decide, he/they would not do such a thing again.

However, nothing is impossible, but if he/they did that, that would be the beginning of the scalability of Bitcoin, once the core structure is altered, anything else could be altered. I believe Satoshi Nakamoto enforced the limit to help Bitcoin scarcity when the time comes which will still make it rice in price due to less supply. Though it is a huge issue for the coin itself, time will tell on this, but still, it has been done, I believe Satoshi Nakamoto will leave it be that way.

This kind of belief can only be spat out by critics and those who do not have an understanding of Bitcoin.

You have some points here but I put it to you that Bitcoin becoming scarce will make it increase in it's value and the quest for people who wants to acquire it will increase as well as it takes an asset like Bitcoin to be scarce in other for the demand to be high and Bitcoin being a decentralized currency cannot be altered at this point that 19 millions of it has been mined already out of the 21 million so even if it's gonna be altered then it will be after the remaining 2 million has been mined then miners can reach an agreement to either continue it's mining or leave it at the projected 21 million by Satoshi Nakamoto.
              Any attempt to maneuver the stipulated 21 million Bitcoin that ought to be mined will rather result to Bitcoin suffering some trust issues which may not really be a welcome idea for the sustainability of the digital asset.

Yes Bitcoins 21mil cap can be removed. In a hard fork, we would essentially have Bitcoin and another coin branch off. Bitcoin will continue with the 21 mil cap but the new coin will have a new cap or no cap. I am sure there must have been a fork in the past where this was done. One coin will continue being used while the other dies off.

It’s a good question to think about actually. What happens when the 21 mil cap is reached and miners get no more block reward. What will incentivise the miners to continue mining. Will transactions fees have to compensate for the loss of block reward? In that case wouldn’t tx fees be incredibly high? So where is the utility as a currency at that point? I don’t know the answers to these. They should be another thread all together to be honest.

Satoshi Nakamoto can not and we can not.

JP Morgan CEO, Jamie must do his research and learn about basics. His statement like this means he did not do any research and did not find any basic about Bitcoin.

How is the 21 million bitcoin cap defined and enforced?

I think on the contrary, he just says what he thinks, he has never done any research on bitcoin. Because if he researched carefully, he would know that Satoshi is only the creator of bitcoin, not the person who will have full authority to change everything about bitcoin. Bitcoin is decentralized and controlled by the community, and if we want to change anything, we need consensus from everyone. To do that is extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Although bitcoin scarcity is not the only factor causing bitcoin prices to skyrocket, it is one of the important factors and everyone knows it. So I believe no one wants to change the bitcoin supply.

True, even if it's possible it would kill BTC since a lot of believers are using this as an example of why BTC is so important. Scarcity truly defines BTC.

I don't know about the code behind bitcoin but 21 million is what everyone believes to this day. If bitcoin exceeds 21 million then trust in bitcoin will collapse overnight and bitcoin will be considered a scam

Dimon concluded his statement by asking how Bitcoiners know that Bitcoin will remain at 21 million.

As far as I know, that was just a rhetorical question for the audience so that he (Dimon) could conclude his criticism speech.

How then did he also know that Satoshi could just appear and increase the supply of Bitcoin? What would Satoshi stand to gain if he increased the limited supply of Bitcoin? How did he know if Satoshi was still alive or not?

Dimon doesn't like Bitcoin, so he would rather make some hypocritical speech just to create thoughts of doubt about Bitcoin in the minds of people. I really don't care because what he said is not what will happen. If there was any intention by Satoshi to increase the supply of Bitcoin, he probably would have done it since the value of Bitcoin started increasing rapidly after the first halving and the bull market that followed it.

I wouldn't say it's not possible, Yeah because before JP Morgan made such statement he must have done some research and found the possibility rate to be high, so he wouldn't just say things for saying sake.

But IMO, I don't believe it's gonna ever happen because of the trust it have already gain and investors believe that in less than no time BTC will be so scarce that the ones that has been held already will now become so expensive then their profits will be so guaranteed. So if this 21 million feature of bitcoin is lost the value will drop hence investors will loss interest gradually everything that has been working well will now be like every other Altcoins. Which is a major reason it won't be possible.

lol that's hilarious. Dimon really is just a complete idiot when it comes to Bitcoin. That's pretty much equivalent to saying how do we know the sun is going to rise tomorrow, maybe God (or whatever other imaginary all powerful beings) is going to come and laugh hysterically and turn off the sun.


OP, I don't even see why you would make this topic, unless you are new to Bitcoin and simply don't know how it works. If that is the case, Dimon is an idiot and he either has no clue how Bitcoin works or he is deliberately spreading anti-bitcoin propaganda (as he has been for years). Satoshi has zero control over Bitcoin. Bitcoin is decentralized. Nobody can change the supply limit. There will never be a single Sat over the 21 million bitcoin limit.

IMO, yes it can be possible if Satoshi wants to but the 21 million max limits is already on the Bitcoin protocol.
So to change that protocol there could be widely accepted consensus among the Bitcoin community, including miners, developers, and users as mentioned above.  Because the decentralized nature of Bitcoin means that changes to the protocol are proposed and implemented through a consensus mechanism that involves miners, developers, and users.

IMO, even Satoshi has nothing to do now with the Bitcoin supply.

Yes, it is extremely possible. In the mind of a dreamer . It isn’t possible folks hence it’s not happening. It isn’t even something to put into consideration unless you’re in the dreamland and imagining another universe. Bitcoin is nothing more than 21M. Does he not know that if it were possible, Bitcoin wouldn’t have the value it has today? People would have invested with the fear that more could be created. That scarcity is key if not it’s just like fiat then. Shrugs.

All that statement does is proving that Dimon understands nothing about Bitcoin. Satoshi hasn't been active for over a decade, but even if he returned, he wouldn't be able to make any changes in Bitcoin, he could only propose them. In fact everyone can only propose changes, even Jamie Dimon can, but it's up to us users to decide whether we want them or not.

It is the design of Bitcoin and if Jamie Dimon thinks of something like this, I guess that he's got some plan that will benefit him if it's technically possible. But is there a point from satoshi's post that he'd already told about that it won't be changed and it will stay to the same supply limit? I Maybe there is, right?

People have bought and invested on Bitcoin for this very reason. The halving that's making the rewards for miners cut into half every cycle or 4 years makes it even scarcer and for that reason, many are believing that its design is perfect and just don't take the opinion of the people like Jamie Dimon. He would always say something that won't matter at all. He might be the owner of JP Morgan Chase or the CEO of it but he's been telling shit about Bitcoin since long time ago.

bitcoin diamond already created in 2017
210m cap
no one noticed, no one cared no one uses it

Do you know that sometimes I do think about this as well, with the halving Bitcoin will be scarce in time to come and what is the essence of halving to remove some of the supply right?
Okay come to think of this, do you think if the halving continues we would have bitcoin for our 3 to 4 generation? So why halving meaning bitcoin is not singly operating as it was created as peer to peer nature so there's every possibility to be scarcity of bitcoin either the supply should be increased or halving should be extended to every 10 years or more to enable bitcoin Last for generations to come just as we are using cash currently and it has been in existence for centuries so why bitcoin can't be created as that.

I would comment by saying Jamie Dimon does not know what he is talking about.  Bitcoin is not J P Morgan.  Bitcoin is DE Centralized.  It is Trust LESS.

Satoshi created Bitcoin and let it run in the wild.  He has no more power of governance over it, ever since Bitcoin became public.  There is no 'access key' to inner workings of Bitcoin and every body pretty much knows that after a five minute serious read on this topic.

The only way this can happen is through a Hard Fork.  I doubt every body is dumb enough to accept such a significant change which has an obvious and very strong negative impact on Bitcoin.

Well, the 21 million BTC is a fundamental aspect of Bitcoin's design. Changing this limit would require a consensus from the network participants, which I believe it is unlikely given the strong commitment to Bitcoin's original protocol.

It also would alter Bitcoin's scarcity value and economic model.

Dimon's comment might be speculative or aimed at provoking thought, but it's good to remember the decentralized nature of Bitcoin that makes such changes pretty hard to make.

I believe that making such a change could mean a huge decrease on BTC value and even the loss of trust on the coin.

agree, or we will have

BITCOIN JV ( Jamie Vision )

ha ha ha

That limited amount that makes bitcoin deflationary can not just be added to or erased. What that will cause the supply to be altered will means that miners will all agree to that and nobody will agree to that. People want it to stay at 21 million BTC. I speculate that any attempt to do anything to alter the 21 million supply will only be a failed attempt.

Never expect anything good about bitcoin from bitcoin critics.

well that depends on community, i am pretty sure if that were to ever happen

we will have a fork ( two bitcoin networks)

and you will be able to access both, and evidently one chain will die and you will be left with the chain with most reasonable logic.


plus even if supply is doubled or increased ? wouldn't it double your bitcoin holdings too ?

Speaking in Davos on Wednesday, JPMorgan CEO and also a well-known bitcoin critic Jamie Dimon made a suggestion that Satoshi Nakamoto might lift the limit on the number of bitcoins, which as we know is 21 million BTC. How would you comment on such a statement?