Topic: Can supplements be bad for you? (Read 601 times)

"""It's bad for you. It's full of chemicals. When you stop taking it, your muscles will immediately deflate,"" similar phrases can often be heard from people who don't even try to understand the issue. Of course, putting up the ""it's all clear"" label is easy. But what's the point? Without understanding and without trying, such a person deprives themselves of the opportunity to go to the next level or start feeling healthy. Still, it's worth it to get to the bottom of it.
I prefer to buy GW 501516 and protein. These two supplements are great for helping my muscles rest and recover.
The label ""chemistry"" was attached to sports nutrition in the industry's early days. At that time, most people had no access to reliable sources of information, and sports nutrition was lightly equated to anabolic steroids. Now, this seems ridiculous in the age of information technology and the availability of knowledge. And yet people are often prejudiced against sports nutrition - they think it's chemistry, having a deleterious effect on the athlete's health. This misconception was born from misunderstanding the key difference between sports nutrition supplements and anabolic steroids."

I don't think that the low life expectancy of all these people was because they took health supplements. I suppose the reason is that they already had health problems, and therefore they took supplements that helped them feel better. I have been using marmalade bears for many years like https://www.wildorchardhemp.com/product-category/delta-9-gummies/ to calm down, and I am sure that this does not affect my life expectancy and my health in any way.

Excess of supplements can lead to toxic effect also, these include conditions like hypervitaminosis due to vitamins, hemochromatosis by iron, wilson's disease by copper and so forth. The point tot noted here is  excess intake of water soluble vitamins like vitmanin B complex and Vitamin C may not cause severe problem, because they are water soluble and get excreted out in urine, However excess of fat soluble vitamins like Vitamin A,D,E, K can have serious adverse effects. I hope this information will help you to choose correct supplement for yourself.

Doctors in general only receive one or two days of training about supplements. It's all about drugs for them. They don't know anything more about supplementing than a pig knows about Sunday.

Supplement is addition of food substance because the food we eat is okay for us to survive except the person who needs supplement don't eat food that contains enough protein, mineral, calcium and carbohydrates, much of fish consumption meat millet and other food intake that contains classes of food, when eat all this constantly we don't need to eat or add supplement no matter the health status

Before we need a supplement, there must be an existing deficiency. The problem with some persons is that the supplements they consume were not recommended by medical practitioners, they only take them because others are doing the same. Speaking about vegetarianism, its by choice, I decided to be one not because I was coerced to but because I had personal reasons for being one. If you can take healthy diets, you eat whole grains, nuts, vegetables and fruits, you will need little to no supplements. Consumption of too much supplements poses one to a high health risk because they are composed of active ingredients that have strong biological effects on the body especially when you combine different forms of supplements or you take them in place of prescribed drugs.

It is very interesting debate which  concerns health of every one so my input is as follows, living natural life and eating organic food is best way to live a healthy life and dependence on medicines and supplements should be minimal. I believe that if we eat balanced food which includes at least 30% vegetables and sleep at least 6 hrs at night and do exercise for 30 minutes 5 times in a week then our immunity becomes strong and our dependence on medicines and supplements can be reduced substantially.

try probiotics, repopulate your gut with good bacteria (many strains), we depopulate them with antibiotics, i knew people who improved their gut/cured or at least there is some level of (better) tolerance to lactose..it is not just lactose but as an overall heath thing.

the good probiotics are the ones with at least 10 strains and at least 10-50 billion.

 However for milk (in raw form),  some researchs points and indicates that very regular consommation can have harmful effects for the adults, as it's containing much of growth factors that are not indicated for a body that have finished its growing!  Also it's advised to prefer fermented milks to raw milk for those.
 
 
 Also milk is not very essential for a good calcium apport, that if you eat healthy..  So do the cow have to drink milk to provide enough calcium in the milk she produces ?

 It depends on the dosage in every supplement they take, that could be a risk for but if in exact dosage will I assure that no harmful or any risk of our body but as I know supplement are more inorganic or natural unlike the drugs or medicine that we can buy in the pharmacy that there's a specification that can harm people.

My daughter had a pretty delicate stomach and we expected she might be lactose intolerant, so the first idea was to switch to plant based milks, but apparently soy milk can develop allergies, so we used wheat and almond milks, but she had even bigger problems with that. It appears that she actually was allergic to soy products, not milk, and all the other plant milks have a disclaimer on the package tat they could contain small amounts of soybeans. Anyway, she drinks normal milk without problems now.

I always find it strange that as a kid I used to eat and drink all the things people these days are allergic to and all my friends did the same. We also did not use supplements at all because in the 80s and early 90s all that was recommended for children was a lot of vegetables and maybe some vitamin C and iron. Nobody used multivitamin mixes or protein supplements, not to mention all these vegan stuff and seeds like chia.

 You are 100% right, overuse them too, I mean using them regularly in a way the body doesn't necessarily need them, so regular use can get the body used to it and then it turns into an addiction where not take them can create serious side effects.

there are also big pharma supplements that are synthetic and actually harmful and cannot be utilized by the body.

there are a lot of gray areas in supplementation. it is not as simple as good or bad.

Lots of supplements and those food alternatives can be just pure businesses who pays doctors or medical professionals to vouch for them and sometimes say positive stuffs about them which might be untrue, not against supplements, but I think it is best to eat what you can find and cook naturally in my opinion, some supplements are quite expensive as well but the nutritional value they claim to provide, you can get similar nutrients in much cheaper natural foods, fruits and vegetables

I think eating organic food is the best way to live a healthy life, dependence on supplements could be good in case of any health issue or you are deficient in some area despite eating balanced food, in this this case better to consult your doctor to discuss you diet plan take his advice before taking food supplementation it should not be taken regularly and diet is the best source of food to get necessary vitamins and minerals and there is no substitute of healthy and balanced food.

To be honest, that would be a pretty vague research, such results can't actually be proven, since as you can also understand, our lifespan is made up of a huge variety of reasons. Thus, it would be completely pointless to conduct such research, while recording each case would be a pain in the ass. Supplements are an easy way to boost your immune system and your stamina, especially if you're lacking time to make decent meals. However, it shouldn't replace healthy habits.

Absolutely! Implying supplements are bad just because they're largely unregulated is just as misleading as saying the opposite. Supplements "can" be good, a waste of money, or bad. There's just no guarantees about them.
A few years ago I watched a documentary in the History Channel, in which they said, at some point in time (I don't remember), they used to sell tapeworm (Taenia Saginata) segments as weight loss supplements. Now, you can argue they are, indeed, really effective for producing weight loss, but its side effects should also be considered.

In essence, it's a simple problem: one can argue against regulation all they want, but regulations are (largely) for our protection. It makes no sense (at least to me) to take the risk to go with an unregulated product, when I can get the same (or usually better) stuff by eating properly.

I read an article probably 2 decades ago now about a study that was done on those who use supplements (specifically vitamins) with relation to their lifespan vs those who did not take supplements.  Interestingly, the study concluded that those who took supplements actually had a shorter lifespan than those that do.  I found it interesting and while the study admittedly stated this was not to be considered evidence that supplements were bad, it was eye opening.  The thing about the study where there was controversy, was people saying that those who took supplements did so because they had health issues or an unhealthy diet, and that those were likely the underlying causes for their shortened lifespan.  One could certainly make that argument, but in the end it would appear that supplements aren't the secret to a healthy and long lasting life.  Betty White said she never ate a vegetable and lived to be 99...

That's true, I've also read and seen myself that supplements aren't subjected to patent regulations by the National Drug Organization (the equivalent of FDA in Greece). I tend to stick to reputable brands when purchasing supplements, while also looking out for reviews, and at the same time, avoiding those "natural herbal" or whatever products, since in most cases, they are a complete waste of money.

I'm not against supplements, since I've noticed a difference myself, especially when I was an active cyclist, or when I had a deficiency in something. Certainly, a balanced diet is the key, however, I usually don't have the time or the energy to have one.

Ok, initially, anything can be bad for you, even if it's not bad for anyone else.

A bit over 20 years ago, a Spanish philosopher came to Argentina, and was interviewed on a TV show. Among all the unproven, unscientific bullshit he said (which is to be expected from a philosopher), he said something that caught my attention. The guy was making a defense of drugs, and said "drugs don't kill anybody. Ignorance does". It's true.
Of course, with the huge amount of information available today comes a huge amount of misinformation. Here's what I  do:

1. Supplements are not regulated by the FDA, so as a norm I stay away from them. Not only because they can be "bad" for me, but also because they can be (and probably are) scams.

2. I use Wikipedia for EVERYTHING. If it's not in it, I don't use it. Period. I don't ever buy the hype, I research everything. If a product is not on Wikipedia, I research its ingredients.

3. If I can supplement with food, I do. I don't buy fads. I don't follow "gurus". I eat meat (when I can), sugar (as of late, less than 1 Lb. a day, but normally almost 2), fat, etc. If I'm in doubt, I check the Wikipedia page for it.

4. I don't trust ANY site, no matter how reputable it may be, that would provide any data regarding my health. I go to the basics, always.

5. I don't subscribe to any diet, EVER. I try to eat varied food, as much as my wallet will allow.

6. I use my head, always. It's there, anyway.
For example: some time ago, companies started marketing cooking oil as "cholesterol free". From the get go, that sounded ridiculous to me (cooking oil is vegetable oil, and cholesterol is an animal derived alcohol), but quite a lot of people fell for it. From then on, a whole "cholesterol free" market was born. Cholesterol free potato chips, cholesterol free cheetos, cholesterol free pop corn. All things that were naturally cholesterol free to start with.
I spent almost a decade trying to reason with people about it. Then, the Justice department mandated that any "cholesterol free" advertising was forbidden because "while not misleading per se, it implies a misleading concept".
Same happens with "diet" stuff, "fat-free", you name it. People don't want to eat sugar, and will gladly take aspartame, saccharin, and a bunch of other sweeteners (all known carcinogens) in its place. They don't want to use salt (sodium chloride) because it's unhealthy, and instead use sea salt (a known poison) to substitute it.

7. I don't fall for the "natural" bullshit. Hemlock is natural. So is curare, nicotine, opium, etc.

8. For the same reasons, I don't fall for the "if it's hard to pronounce, it's bad" bullshit. Some years ago, the Skeptic Society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skeptics_Society) launched a meme that listed a bunch of chemicals, all with very difficult names, saying "Don't eat this!" on top. Below the list, it said: Do you know it? It's a BANANA.

You are most likely to have side effects from dietary supplements if you take them at high doses or instead of prescribed medicines, or if you take many different supplements. Some supplements can increase the risk of bleeding or, if taken before surgery, can change your response to anesthesia.

7 Popular Supplements With Hidden Dangers

1. Vitamin D: Too Much Can Harm Your Kidneys
Vitamin D promotes calcium absorption in the body, and getting enough is central to health and well-being, offering the promise of protecting bones and preventing bone diseases like osteoporosis. Supplemental vitamin D is popular because it’s difficult (if not impossible) to get enough from food. Also, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) notes, our bodies make vitamin D when bare skin is exposed to sunlight, but increased time spent indoors and widespread use of sunblock has minimized the amount of vitamin D many of us get from sun exposure.But enthusiasm for vitamin D supplements is outpacing the evidence. As it turns out, when healthy women take low doses of vitamin D (up to 400 international units, or IU) it does not necessarily prevent them from breaking bones, according to a U.S. Preventive Services Task Force report published in May 2013 in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine.

And taking high doses is not a good option. In healthy people, vitamin D blood levels higher than 100 nanograms per milliliter (ng/mL) can trigger extra calcium absorption — and lead to muscle pain, mood disorders, abdominal pain, and kidney stones, notes the Cleveland Clinic. It may also raise the risk of heart attack and stroke.

“More is not necessarily better when it comes to micronutrient supplements,” says Manson.

The outlook is different for women who are over age 71, deficient in vitamin D, live in institutions, or have dark skin pigmentation. For them, the National Academy of Medicine reports, vitamin D supplements prescribed by a doctor are beneficial. To achieve vitamin D recommendations — 600 IU per day for people 1 to 70 years old and 800 IU per day for individuals 71 or older — include whole foods, such as salmon, tuna, milk, mushrooms, and fortified cereals in your daily diet. You can also spend a brief time in the sun without sunblock — about 10 to 15 minutes a day, according to the NIH.

2. St. John’s Wort: Avoid Drug Interactions
St. John’s wort is a plant used as a tea or in capsules to treat mild depression, anxiety, and sleep disorders. Small studies have shown St. John’s wort to be effective at treating mild depression. For example, a review published March 2017 in the Journal of Affective Disorders looked at of 27 clinical trials with a total of 3,808 patients and concluded that the herbal remedy worked as well as certain antidepressants at decreasing symptoms of mild to moderate depression.But, says Denise Millstine, MD, an internist in the department of integrative medicine at Mayo Clinic in Phoenix, Arizona, “The biggest issue with St. John’s wort is its medication interactions.”

A study published in July 2014 in the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine found that 28 percent of the time St. John’s wort was prescribed between 1993 and 2010, it was administered in dangerous combinations with antidepressant or anti-anxiety medication, statins, the blood-thinning drug warfarin, or oral contraceptives. For example, combining St. John’s wort with an antidepressant can cause serious complications, including a life-threatening increase in the brain chemical serotonin, according to the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health.

3. Calcium: The Excess Settles in Your Arteries
Calcium is essential for strong bones and a healthy heart, but too much is not a good thing. In fact, an excess of calcium, which is described by the NIH as more than 2,500 mg per day for adults ages 19 to 50, and more than 2,000 mg per day for individuals 51 and over, can lead to problems.

According to the Cleveland Clinic, “Researchers believe that without adequate vitamin D to help absorb it, the extra calcium settles in the arteries instead of the bones.”In addition, an analysis of 10 years of medical tests on more than 2,700 people in a federally funded heart disease study, published October 10, 2016, in the Journal of the American Heart Association, suggested that taking calcium supplements may increase plaque buildup in the aorta and other arteries. In contrast, a diet high in calcium-rich foods, such as dairy products and leafy greens, appeared to be protective.

“Get calcium from your diet if you can,” advises Dr. Millstine, noting that research shows that calcium is better absorbed through food than through supplements.

The National Institutes of Health (NIH) recommends 1,000 mg of calcium a day for women ages 19 to 50, and 1,200 mg a day for women 51 and older. The recommendation for men ages 19 to 70 is 1,000 mg a day, and 1,200 mg a day for men 71 and older. According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), 6 ounces of plain low-fat yogurt contains about 311 mg of calcium, a little less than one-third of the daily recommendations. Other good calcium sources include tofu, nonfat milk, cheese, fortified cereal, and juices.Calcium deficiency, or hypocalcemia, may be detected by routine blood tests. If you have low calcium blood levels, your doctor may prescribe a calcium supplement.

4. Multivitamins and Multiminerals: No Substitute for a Healthy Diet
Think that a healthy lifestyle requires not just eating good-for-you foods, exercising, and getting enough sleep, but also taking a daily multivitamin-multimineral supplement? You may be surprised to learn that the jury’s still out on whether those supplements are truly helpful.

One surprising study published in the journal JAMA Internal Medicine, which examined data from nearly 40,000 women over 19 years, found that, on average, women who took supplements had an increased risk of dying compared with women who didn’t take supplements. Multivitamins also did little or nothing to protect against common cancers, cardiovascular disease, or death.
However, more recent research has found benefits to taking multivitamins. For example, a study published August 9, 2017, in the journal Nutrients concluded that frequent use of multivitamin and mineral supplements helped prevent micronutrient shortfalls that might otherwise cause health problems.

For women of childbearing age, taking prenatal vitamins with folic acid is recommended by the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists to help prevent birth defects. Multivitamins might also be prescribed by your doctor if you have malabsorption syndrome, a condition in which the body does not properly absorb vitamins and minerals.

But for healthy people, Manson says, “a supplement can never be a substitute for a healthy diet."

5. Fish Oil Supplements: Choose Fish or Flaxseed Instead
Rich in omega-3 fatty acids, fish oil has been touted as a means to reduce heart disease. However, more and more evidence shows that fish oil supplements have questionable heart benefits. A study published January 3, 2019, in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) found that omega-3 fatty acid supplements did nothing to reduce heart attacks, strokes, or deaths from heart disease in middle-aged and older men and women without any known risk factors for cardiovascular disease. An earlier study, published in May 2013 in NEJM, looked at people at high risk for cardiovascular disease and also reported no benefit.

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According to the NIH, omega-3 deficiency is “very rare in the United States.” Still, many people fail to consume enough omega-3s daily for optimal health. The best way to get adequate amounts is by eating a variety of foods that are rich in them, including:

Fish and other seafood, especially cold-water fatty fish, such as salmon, mackerel, tuna, herring, and sardines
Nuts and seeds, such as flaxseed, chia seeds, and walnuts
Plant oils, such as flaxseed oil, soybean oil, and canola oil
Fortified foods, such as certain brands of eggs, yogurt, juices, milk, and soy beverages.

6. Kava: Overuse Can Harm Your Liver
Kava is an herb that in concentrated forms has been used to treat general anxiety disorder with some success. An Australian study published online in 2015 in the journal Trials found that the South Pacific plant can be an effective alternative treatment to prescription medication for people diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder (GAD). An earlier, smaller study, published in October 2013 in the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology, also showed that taking kava significantly reduced anxiety compared with a placebo in people with GAD.However, taking too much kava, or taking it for too long, has been linked to serious liver damage, including hepatitis, cirrhosis, and liver failure. As a result, according to the NIH, the FDA has warned that people, especially those with liver disease or liver problems, or those who are taking drugs that can affect the liver, should talk to their healthcare practitioner before using kava. In addition, the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health reports that heavy consumption of kava has been associated with heart problems and eye irritation.

7. Soy Isolate: Careful With the Estrogen
Tofu, tempeh, and soy milk are all good sources of protein, fiber, and a number of minerals. Some women also take soy in supplement form because the plant contains estrogen-like compounds called isoflavones that may help relieve symptoms of menopause. However, concerns have been raised that the isoflavones in soy supplements may contribute to an increased risk of breast cancer.

The good news is that large-scale studies have not shown any increased breast cancer risk from eating whole soy foods, such as tofu and edamame, according to the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston.

In fact, at least one study, published March 6, 2017, in the journal Cancer, which looked at 6,235 breast cancer survivors, linked eating the equivalent of one serving of soybeans a week to a 21 percent lower risk of death from all causes during the nearly 10-year follow-up period.

But not enough research has been done on soy protein isolate (SPI) — the powder formed by removing the protein from the rest of the plant — to know its effect on breast cancer risk, Millstine says. (In addition to supplements, SPI is often found in power bars, veggie burgers, and some soups, sauces, smoothies, and breakfast cereals.)

The bottom line: “If you’re concerned about breast cancer, stay away from soy supplements and soy-based protein,” Millstine advises. “Soy intake from foods has not been shown to be of concern though.”

https://www.everydayhealth.com/news/supplements-risks-every-women-should-know/

Is there any study backing up what you're mentioning? I guess not. Supplements are often needed, not because nutrients from food aren't enough, but due to being in such a hustle and bustle environment, eating healthy in order to gain enough nutrients isn't always feasible by everyone. Thus, in some cases, supplements may be required for a short period of time. They are fine if they are taken for a few months, overdosing though isn't a healthy practice.

The best nutrition comes from natural foods that we consume, both animal and vegetable sources. Supplements are only needed if there are nutrients that are not met in the short term, not for long-term consumption.
In supplements, there are not only multivitamins that we need, but in the process other chemicals such as preservatives are also added, which if consumed long-term have a negative impact, especially on kidney health.

 It depends on the right taking supplements, some people are taking a supplement that is not accurate to the specific problem of their body
, they just take even without the advice of the consultant .Taking supplements is good for our body when In a right dosage.

Exactly, so someone eating a proper diet doesn't have a need for supplementation. Vitamin D in particular might be something someone might supplement, because of a sedentary lifestyle indoors, you won't get as much as you need. A lot of the multivitamins people take are nothing more than marketing gimmicks or placebos.


I agree generally, but the harm of having excess vitamins in your body isn't anything significant unless you are triple dosing on every vitamin supplement imaginable. And even then it'd probably depend on other factors.

The thing is, the majority of people are malnourished. I think this is partly because of lack of knowledge, however I also believe its because of how modern life is. For example, we wasn't really designed to work eight to ten hour shifts every day, in fact there's plenty of research going into how biphasic sleeping patterns could potentially be a benefit to us, since that's likely how we operating before modern living introduced jobs.

It's going to sound a little weird, and it might not be accurate, but I wouldn't be surprised if first world countries have more malnourished in terms of a balanced diet, than those that live in third world countries. Obviously, malnourished is often associated with third world countries, and it's pretty obvious why, however first world countries tend to have awful working hours which means a lot of people skip lunch or don't eat regularly enough, which in turn causes issues with your health. Even if this is a extreme assumption to make, and isn't exactly accurate at least to the degree of first world countries having more malnourished people, I think the vast majority are still malnourished, and this is often down played.

Remember, just because your eating food, doesn't mean you're eating a balanced diet. Calories are what age you, and the majority are eating more calories than they require, and still not getting the benefits they would by eating half of those calories in a more balanced way.

Are you able to provide where this good source was? Would be interested to see how much they're recommending, and to what benefit it would provide. I don't currently supplement vitamin D at all.

Not exactly the case, there are some vitamins and minerals your body needs that are produced in little (not enough quantity) or it doesn't produce at all. You can obtain such vitamins from food, and when a certain food that contains a certain vitamin you need is not available or in season, the next best option becomes supplements.


Because these vitamins will become excess in your body, and it shouldn't be so. It should be taken in moderation and supplements should never take the place of food.

Most supplements, such as multivitamins, warn you that their usage shouldn't exceed 3 months at most. At least those I used to take warned its users. I remember this particularly from a multivitamin I was taking, Centrum Performance, which would often cause me tachycardia, after taking it for a few weeks.

Anything taken in excess can be harmful, especially if it's supplements that already have quite high dosages.

There isn't a need to supplement unless you're undernourished or malnourished. Supplements won't be bad for you unless you over do it. At most, you get no benefit.

First and foremost, anything in excess can be bad for you, especially if it's the only thing. What I mean is that suplements are called that for a reason, the are suplemental to a healthy diet. Now, when I see doctors saying that most of people get enough of it from food is extremly vague because how manny people have they survayed, for what vitamins, in what enviroments, so on amd so forth. So I wouldn't say most people get enough, I would rather say that it depends grom person tonperson, and before geting to any conclusions, if possible, have some tests done to see if you are deficient.

I think your food and diet is pretty much enough to fulfil all the vitamin and minerals requirement of a healthy body. But the problem I think is our food and diet itself these days, one we have traded off our traditional healthy foods with some snacks and unhealthy fried foods which obviously Can't give that type of minerals and secondly the right timmings of our diet are also disturbed these days. I think our body does need some supplements based on the nutritional deficiencies in our diet but only for some period of time. If you are saying you need to take this supplement for rest of your life then I think it's just useless. Moreover this question I know has popped out because how aggressively these companies are marketing their supplement these days. I think if you are deficient in something and your doctor offers you supplement for sometime to treat that deficiency unless your body starts to make that vitamin on it's own using diet that is the best use of supplements.

I have heard since childhood that supplementary food vegetables are good for our body. And in various countries parents always try to feed their baby vegetables and nutrition containing food. But various studies have shown that many supplements contain a number of harmful ingredients that will do more harm than good.

Eating too many supplements can lead to death.
 
Let me give you an example, My father has always been a health-conscious person. He never took any food that contain too much oil and spice and always tries to eat vegetables and vitamin-containing food. But even after doing so much maintenance, my father became ill and various problems appeared in his body. Then I found out from the doctor that some supplementary food has harmed my father's body!!

At first, I became shocked, But later I searched about it on Google and what I found was really terrifying.

But, Supplementary food does some harm so it is not a matter of stopping eating it, everything should be eaten as measured.

Excessive intake of any food can lead to illness and even death,
Dr.  Millstein explained that,

I was also diagnosed a few years ago with a vitamin D deficiency, took a supplement for a month or two and felt a lot better. Stopped after a while because i continuously forgot to take them. My B12 is on the low side, but not that bad, I should repeat a blood test in a few months, provided that I receive the supplements daily.

Talking about fruits and vegetables now, I might get an apple or a banana every now and then, but too lazy and/or tired for something else.

In reality you can't maintain the ideal diet everyday, sometimes you want to eat other stuff that has less omega 3s, then you supplement.

There are other things in the "supplement category" that can function as medicine, more like theraphy(since you will experience results a bit longer than synthetics but better since it does not have side effects, there are cases though that it can act faster and better than synthetics like oil of oregano for fungal issues.)

I've seen a lot of really good evidence recently about vitamin D, so I added that to my supplements about 6 months ago. Just recently I saw that it was strongly linked to a reduction in autoimmune disorders.

Some people can't digest B12 well via the stomach, so you might try a spray form or a tablet that dissolves under your tongue. Then it goes directly through the skin of your mouth into your bloodstream.

For increasing your fruit and vegetable intake, you might try dried, frozen, and canned options. Fresh fruits and veggies are a little nicer to eat, but they're more of a pain because you have to wash them, chop off the inedible parts, and figure out how to use them before they go bad. I often just take canned or frozen vegetables and add some oil and spices to make a quick side dish in less than 15 minutes. Dried apricots, cranberries, and prunes are quick & delicious.

Yes excess of supplements can be really bad for health, for example excess of vitamins causes their accumulation and leads to hypervitaminosis.
This is important to  not to overtake the vitamins especially the fat soluble ones like A,D,E,K moreover excess of mineral intake can also cause their accumulation and toxicity.

So take supplements safely and moderately

You want to take the supplements that have on the label "whole foods" especially with a multivitamin. Otherwise with the cheaper supplements they have fillers that are actually bad for you.

Like Theymos suggested, if you have a balance diet, including meat, vegetables, fruit and so on, you're unlikely to have any deficiencies that would lead to the necessity of taking a supplement. The issue is lying on how many of us actually have the said diet, I'm pretty positive that most of us don't.

Personally, I rarely eat fruit and vegetables, while my food habits are quite messed up, due to me being too lazy or too tired to cook something of decent nutritional value. I was recently found with a vitamin D deficiency, along with B12, relatively low iron and hematocrit, possibly one or two more deficiencies that I can't recall now.

As a result, I'm taking a vitamin D supplement along with a multivitamin, I'm feeling a little better now, not something significant though but that could also be the placebo effect.

These two ideas are not inconsistent. A vegan or anyone else that regulates food by a rule set for some philosophical concept has ZERO certainty of getting all essential nutrients.

The typical reality for most people is just eat whatever they want, that may lead to obesity and other issues, but not a deficiency of essential minerals and vitamins.

Realistically a lot of "health" focused companies market that the individual lacks in the amount of vitamins they need from food, so they offer some "magic" tablet to help it. We don't really need 100% of vitamins daily. There people who need vitamins for vitamins for medical reasons, but aslong we consume a good amount of green vegetables and varied fruits we'll be fine.

I recently starting taking Vitamin D and a Fish Oil supplement. It did make a remarkable difference on my skin. I was thinking that I was lacking in Vitamin D and B12 in the first place so this was a case that Vitamins helped.

Supplements can absolutely be bad for you... like if they stay in the cupboard for 10 years, and then you eat them.

 

if its the cheap stuff thats not been fortified. dont expect high iron count.
theres a reason kellogs gets fortified because the processing of the corn actually removes the natural minerals so they put some back in.
if the cheap stuff doesnt have any fortification.. then your just eating cardboard

just keep in mind WHY something needs to be fortified
just keep in mind WHY vegan dieters need supliments.
because they are not getting the minerals naturally

when i see a vegan and they say they having a healthy diet .. but then slip up that food is modified, fortified, added nutrients and supliments.. then obviously they are not having a healthy diet. because a health diet doesnt need addatives.

its things like many foods. if you need to ad something to it to make it taste better, make you feel better. then its not the main food thats doing its job .. its whatever you are adding thats doing it

No, it's 1kcal per 100ml of "infusion". PG tips were 4kj afaik (4/7kcal).

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The corn flakes just gives me an excuse to buy the cheap stuff from lidl then, that's a win win 🤣 (they're not as tasty but they are 96% maize and still are pretty good with milk).

And I'm not sure how accurate they have to be with their values but I assume it's still the 95% purity on most things (in terms of iron content).

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@hammasan yeah I think that sort of advertising here has been banned for a while and that was almost definitely the reason...

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I thought the general rule of thumb was that 90% of the nutrients are taken in an 10% are left to turn into shit... Its why animals don't like to eat human dung and why humans don't eat each others (well its one of the reasons anyway).

These products seduce young people with the promise of accelerating muscle mass gain. However, using it on your own can have serious health consequences.
Teenagers, especially those born in the digital age, want everything for yesterday. It is not for nothing that many of them wish to exchange the child's body for a more muscular or defined version in the shortest possible time. Stepping into the gym, they are an easy audience for sports supplements, especially those that increase muscle mass, such as whey protein, BCAA and creatine.
In general, the eagerness for quick results of muscle mass gain and the need to overcome their own limits, increasing their own performance, make athletes not think about the long-term results. "Excess hormones such as testosterone, for example, can decrease erection capacity, cause pimples, cause hair to grow around the body - facts that can bring reflexes for the rest of life."

Everyone is different and RDI is just a finger in the air, about okay on average, kind of a thing. A 6ft obese 30 year old man is going to need more than a 5ft6 skinny 80 year old man. And then absorption is as important as intake. Some vitamins are water soluble (C and most of the Bs), and any excess you p1ss right out, so that's okay, but the fat-soluble ones you need to be careful with (A, D, E and K - although I don't think there's any evidence that excess K causes problems). So you can certainly absorb too much of some stuff through supplements. And then absorption varies by individual, some people for example coeliacs need to take more in certain cases because they just can't absorb a high enough quantity from regular intake. And absorption also varies with whatever else you're eating, for example iron is much more readily absorbed when it's accompanied by vitamin C.

That's only if you eat the whole bag and all of its contents, right?

each person is different. for instance some have a natural biological defect that makes them naturally iron deficiant and so they need alot more iron intake than others.. and in more cases than people realise there are many forms of iron and although cornflakes says it has 53% of rdi.. thats based on RDI grams average. and how many grams they sprinkle into the recipe. its NOT considering the type of iron. its not considering how much iron actually gets absorbed nor the bit as i said about how much iron the particular person needs.

take the leafy green (spinach) iron vs the already absorbed and converted iron in beef.. humans absorb beef based iron alot better than leafy green iron. hense needing twice as much leafy green.
and hense why cows have more stomachs to make them more efficient leafy green iron absorbers compared to humans.

heck sticking with cornflakes. did you know when they dry out and squash and cook the corn into flakes. they then have to add in sugars to make it taste nice again.
its why for instead 'frosty flakes' are sugar cane added and you dont have the corn starch. you would be so surprise at the different types of natural sugars and minerals removed in processing and then added added back later..
yep 'fortified' = artificially added in processing  

even the stuff about 'carbohydrates of sugars' most dont know that solid sugars (candy) absorb slower and differently than liquidised sugar.
and then theres the different types that also react differently. like lactose(milk based sugar) fructose(fruit based) and dextrose..

its why. if you eat an orange. you dont get the same instant spike as you would from the same single orange squeezed into juice... yep orange juice is different than orange fruit. but RDI wise its stupidly treated the same.

and its why them 'vegan health freaks' always say to juice everything. because if you had to eat all the minerals in solid fruit and veg form. you would get bloated, gain weight and have issues in the toilet.

anyway to get back to the topic of supliments
although some supliments are more the precise minerals without the leafy green parts. thus less digestion/absorption variance. the type of mineral is different. some are industrial chemical rather than natural extracts.
some are not recognise by the gut as what they should be,
an some of the binders used and favourings used to make it appealing and tasty. can have issues too.

Since you took iron as an example, 100g of corn flakes contain 53% of your RDI.

I'd dismiss RDI on being 100% fact as I don't think some of it is reasonable. (we were looking at lethal doses for chemicals and calcium becomes deadly at 1000g - apparently). I imagine that's my entire evening meal in calcium which would be very unreasonable and thus a useless piece of data (I'm sure you'd die before then anyway).

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My table salt contains sodium chloride and sodium amide (there's something before the amide but I opened the container upside down ).

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Not going to argue with the meat and two veg but it's a little wrong.
What no one will mention from the UK is that you need a nice thick gravy or apple sauce and you'll also need something to soak it up when you're done. And the meat and two veg also assumes the main event be potatoes (a selection of roast, mash and potentially wedges too)...

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My tetley is 3 kcal also per bag

I'll start with this bit Vegan propaganda annoys the hell out of me. I am vegan, but that is my choice. If you are not vegan, that is your choice. I have zero right to presume to tell other people what to eat. You want to eat meat and dairy? Absolutely fine with me. The propaganda is irritating, sententious, repetitive and fundamentally counterproductive. If your aim is to get people to stop eating meat, you're not going to achieve it by lecturing them or taking the moral high ground. Some vegans are idiots and attention-seekers (but not all).


Depends why you're doing it though, surely? I don't want to eat animals or products of the dairy industry; I'm not doing it for health benefits. On the subject of health benefits though, the World Health Organisation has classed processed meats, especially bacon and ham, as class 1 carcinogens...


True about B12 in a natural vegan diet, however here in the UK most soya milk is fortified with B12, and all (as far as I'm aware) with calcium. In the UK, if you are getting B12 from soya milk, iodine is the big problem. We do not have iodised salt. Some soya milks have iodine, but many do not. There are other natural sources, seaweeds for example. Also there are of course supplements.
Iodine is vital. There is plenty of it in seafood, but weirdly for a tiny island nation where you're never more than 3 miles (or something :p ) from the sea, the UK has a historic problem with lack of iodine - goitres from hypothyroidism brought on by iodine deficiency were called 'Derbyshire neck', after the county in the middle of the country where you are just too far from the coast to get regular seafood.


Agreed. Balanced diet is certainly the best. But it can be achieved as a vegan, so long as you are careful about B12 and iodine as above, and so long as you make sure you're not missing out on other stuff. There are plenty of vegan meat substitutes out there.


Ha! If you're the sort of vegan who forages from hedgerows and wears a face mask so they don't accidentally inhale bugs, then maybe. I however am a conoisseur connesuir connissieur devourer of vegan junk food, where calorific intake is certainly not a problem.


To return belatedly to the original point (sorry), some people (including vegans in certain situations) might need certain supplements for certain deficiencies. In general however, it's far healthier to eat a balanced diet, as franky said. Just balanced diet, enough exercise, don't smoke or drink (or at least not much), and you're fine. Supplements are the go-to quick-fix of modern culture, and are not in general a good idea. Different people have different diets and will need different vitamins in different amounts. A pill that dumps huge quantities of everything into your system is not a good idea. Vitamin overdose is a thing, particularly with A and D which are fat-soluble.

you might want to do a bit more maths.
hint.
the iron in spinach is not absorbed the same as beef.. you actually need 1kg of spinach to meet just the same equivelent of beef
..
also funny how you picked ground beef. which is usually the fatty mix of different cuts..
take beef shoulder stake.. thats 2.5mg iron /100g weight 133kcal
take your ground beef... thats 2.5mg iron /100gweight 250kcal

kinda funny how you want it to be like eating one large 1lb burger is a whole days iron and 3/5ths of calories..
yet eating 1lb shoulder steak is only 700kcal

and like i said with spinach you actually need 1kg of it to have enough absorbed iron.
(ill give you a hint cows have more stomachs than humans so cows absorb iron better than humans.)

yep so eating 1kg of spinach just for iron.. is only 230kcal.. meaning you then have to eat a crap load of other foods for the other couple thousand

..
best diet is a balanced diet.
as the brits call.. a 'meat and 2 veg' diet (its been around for hundreds of years)

i truly find it funny when people dont really do the deeper research or try to tweak numbers to make one thing sound bad..
i have never seen mcdonalds sell a 1lb burger so have no clue of a rational reason why you chose 1lb of groundbeef. but i can guess

by the way. good luck going to the toilet after all the leafy greens and nuts and stuff..

Veganism is pointless IMO, and vegans who don't do research on nutrition are probably at a higher risk of deficiencies. But except for B12, vegans can meet all of their DRIs it without eating a truckload of vegetables per day. For example, you need 677g of ground beef = 1558 calories to get 100% DV of iron, whereas you can get the same 100% DV with:
 - 2.8 cups of cooked spinach = 504g = 116 calories; OR
 - 2 cups of cooked soybeans = 350g = 603 calories; OR
 - 2.7 cups of cooked lentils = 541g = 617 calories; etc.
A vegan is probably going to be eating a lot of that sort of stuff anyway just to get enough calories.

It's not that supplements are bad for you per say, it's that most people eat a balanced diet already -- in one way or another they're getting all of their vitamins and minerals without having to take some pill.

It's very important for these companies to peddle the fact that you need your vitamins and that you're not currently getting enough. Most of this is honestly fueled by parents telling their children to eating their vitamins, vitamins companies selling a product that literally looks like gummy bears and is sugary so kids like it, and is just passed down from generation to generation now.

If the product was so necessary, like some sort of pill that you take to survive, there'd be no reason for the companies to pour money into licensing to make their vitamins / supplements have spongebob or some character on them. It's bullshit and not necessary to most people.

If you need a supplement of some sort, it should be doctor recommended.

Consume supplement is not bad for people who need to support their activity every day because, with the supplement, they can have more energy to do every task that they need to finish every day. But some people don't need to consume the supplement because they feel that their body, mind, and soul can handle their activity every day and they don't have a problem with that. Maybe they will consume the supplement if their body really needs more power to help their body or their body get drops because of something.

I see some people especially my friends don't consume the supplement because they can work with good, and if they feel they are tired, they will take a rest for a while before they continue their work. The important thing here is we need to balance our life with work, have time to get rest for a while, eat something to get the power, so we don't have a problem in our busy days. I am not consuming the supplement because I don't think that is good for myself except if I feel that my body needs that supplement. But yes, I think consuming the supplement in a long time can harm our body because we don't know what react that might our body get in the future.

many vitamins are made from industrial chemicals not vegetable extracts. or the process of vegetable extraction of minerals involves industrial chemicals

and yes if a vegan wanted to eat enough iron, theyd need to eat a kg of veg a day. then drink a kg of water and then a few more kg of other vegetables to try getting the other minerals.

if a vegan wanted to be healthy they would end up eating far more weight than then can excrete. .. basically vegans end up starving themselves.

its like the stupidity that people think smoking weed is the same as vaping cbd oils..

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anyone who promotes supliments. should instead just tell people to eat more variety. because in many countries, supliments are not graded/monitored/regulated the sme way food or drugs are. and yes you cn end up ingesting more chemicals from protein supliments than you can from say chlorinated chicken

same goes for vaping. people are dying in years, where as smoking usually took decades.
but stupid 'fitness' people think they know better.

One always have to be careful and not just go for things because they sound healthy. Vitamins are great right? But many years ago they found pounds of undigested vitamins in the gut of someone.

Supplements are essentially like any other food, except often concentrated. Certain foods people react differently toward or are allergic to. Some make you fat, some give you energy, some are good for your skin, it is more of a matter of what nutrients you need at any given time. Calling a supplement bad for you isn't a clear metric. What might be bad for you may be good for some one else. It is best to just see what works best for you and pay attention to the results.

If you eat a healthy and varied (meat+fruit+vegetables+grains) diet, not getting too many of your calories from sugar or refined grains, then your diet is likely not to be so deficient in anything as to cause serious problems. If you track your diet, then you might think at first that you're deficient in a lot of micronutrients, but this is often just because your source of nutrition info doesn't have all of the micronutrient data for your foods. You have to use the USDA Standard Reference database for everything you eat in a day in order to get a complete picture. This is pretty difficult, but it's worthwhile to do for a few days to get some idea of your nutrient intake. (On FoodData Central, uncheck "branded" on the left after searching. Use closest approximations for things not in the Database. Note that many zero-calorie things like tap water, tea, coffee, and table salt contribute nutrients to your diet.)

Most people will be under the DRI in a few areas -- exactly which depending on diet --, though this won't necessarily ever lead to noticeable health issues. I'd guess that 90% of people are below the DRI on potassium, omega-3, choline, and fiber. None of these things tend to be in multivitamins in appreciable quantities, though...

Vegans must supplement B12, which is almost impossible to get enough of from vegan sources. In the US, milk is becoming less popular in favor of plant milks, and this could lead to calcium deficiency in some cases. Even though iodine is added to table salt, iodized salt is not used in packaged food, it's not that common in food otherwise, and I suspect that low-level iodine deficiency may be common.

I'm skeptical of supplements that contain a bunch of random herbs. Maybe has some tenuous evidence for doing something good when consumed as an herbal tea every now and then, but who knows what taking some lowest-cost "filler" form of it daily for months/years will do...

I believe that the natural, growing food we eat doesn't have enough nutritional value for the fiber. In addition, there probably should be more humic acids in the plants, and especially fulvic acid.

Juicing is a good idea, but some of the fiber needs to be consumed, as well.

Supplements might be good to a certain extent, but one can easily overdue it. Researchers are finding out that over-supplementation can produce imbalances in the body that are harmful, until balanced with other supplements that work synergistically in nature.

Probably the best that a person can do is to eat small amounts of all kinds of foods, many of which are not grown locally. Distant (not local) plants often have different chemicals that the body needs.

I keep seeing vegan propaganda about people being able to get all the nutrients they need from supplements and it's much healthier or something because most people are deficient.

However, this isn't backed by the NHS or NIH who both claim that most people get the right amount of different vitamins and minerals. The NHS and NIH both go as far as to state that a long term use of supplements could actually be harmful to the body. I'm guessing the doctors have it right but since both don't cite sources it's difficult for me to work it out.

I'ma make this self mod, I don't plan to delete anything but if somethings too spammy I reserve the right to delete it. I'm after an intellectual debate, I won't delete differing views especially if they're empirically backed.