Topic: Can the Democratic Party Survive? (Read 189 times)

The US isn't able to become a socialist country because all prior attempts to create a real socialist economy have failed. What has changed nowadays?

the left in america is now supporting segregation and racism.

I think he is confusing establishment policies with being right. The left is now the party of war, censorship, corporatism, crime, and racism, all the things the left of 20 years ago was most vocally against.

No, the left did not move right after the Regan years.

The left has moved massively further left.

what do you mean with federalist expansion?

the democratic party has turned anti white and racist.

If you look back over the years and decades, you will see that the Democratic Party flip-flopped on a regular basis with the ideals and platforms that the Republican Party held. And the Republican Party did the same. However, neither party flip-flopped 100% into what the other party was. Rather, both parties adopted things of the other party that were beneficial (they thought) for getting their nominee elected.

Why is this important for us? Because things haven't changed.

If Democrat leaders will not conform to the thinking of the People, and if Republicans happen to hold a better position for the present, all that will happen will be that new Democrat leaders will arise... leaders who have better ideals for the times of the future.

Trump will win this election - outside of some unexpected anomally that might occur. But people will sour on the Republican ideals in the future. Why? Because nobody, Republicans or Democrats, can give the people what they want, and people will forget that the Democratic Party failed them this time, after the Republican Party fails them next time.

Look at it this way. Build for the future. If you like or don't like what the Democrats are doing, build for the future... when the Republicans will become weak, again.

This I think is the crux of the problem, and it's not limited to the US, it's a global phenomenon.

What happened was that the Berlin Wall fell, and with it communism. Then socialism, the more moderate and acceptable face of the political left, was tainted by association. The left moved ever rightwards in an attempt to remain electable during and in the aftermath of the 'greed is good' Reagan/Thatcher years. So the two main parties, once espousing ideologically very distinct philosophies, became more and more similar to one another. They both sought the same sort of voter. The left abandoned its traditional core support of the poor working class. After all, it didn't matter if they moved to the right: so long as they remained the left-most party, then the poor working class would still vote for them, right?

No, wrong. What happened was that the poor became disillusioned and disenfranchised. No-one represented their interests any more. They had no-one to vote for. And increasingly, as politics move rightwards 'the poor' came to encompass more and more people, including the young, the lower-middle-classes, etc.

A political void opened up, and into this stepped the populists like Trump, policy-light but always ready with media-friendly soundbites, claiming to represent the average voter, those 'left behind' by the political mainstream. And they did this by appealing to people's base prejudices. It's very simple but tremendously effective. Where the mainstream career politicians are hamstrung by the necessities of diplomacy, the populists face no such constraints. Indeed their freedom from constraints is what makes them appealing. Trump can blame everything on the Mexicans, he can build a wall to keep them out, he can demand that his Democrat opponent be locked up... and on and on. And he rode that populist wave all the way to the White House. Trump's administration is government by pithy soundbite; whether there is substance behind these utterances or not is immaterial, the soundbite itself is the message. If Obama or George W had come out with even one of the things that Trump says every five minutes, there would be outrage and calls for them to step down... but Trump doesn't have this, the outrage is part of what empowers him: because it is the outrage of the establishment, and he had positioned himself as an outsider. It's a huge strength; nothing they say can hurt him. This is why the impeachment was a stupid idea; he was guaranteed to be acquitted by a partisan Senate, and it then becomes very easy for him to frame the attempt to remove him as a last desperate gamble by the establishment. It just cements his power-base and even draws more voters towards him, the valiant underdog swimming through a sea of corruption.

To belatedly get back to the Democrats then, and the left generally across many western democracies, the political centre has become poisoned, and the outsiders are now seen by many as a best hope for a representative who is truly representative, who stands up for the interests of the common man (and indeed woman). This I think is why Bernie's popularity is growing. At the same time it explains why the DNC are trying everything in their power to stop him winning: because the party and the voters that the party should represent have moved apart. The party is more centrist than the people who vote for them. Both parties are. The electorate is becoming more polarised, and the mainstream political class from both parties are becoming more similar to one another and, on occasion, indistinguishable from one another.

So what will happen?
I think on the one hand that politics is cyclic. If the DNC defeat Bernie, or Bernie wins but Trump beats him, then it's not the end of everything. Support for Trump will fade as ordinary people see that their living standards haven't risen. It took a while for them to lose faith in the mainstream politicians, and it will take them a while to lose faith in Trump, too. But they will eventually, and centrism will likely come around again as the popular option. Democrats will regroup and will win again.
On the other hand, if Bernie wins and then gets the presidency, and is able somehow to get some of his policies enacted, then this is a huge opportunity for the US to shift the whole global narrative leftwards, away from the 1980s Reagan legacy and towards a future where inequality is reined in and government genuinely cares for and represents the welfare and the best interests of the electorate.

Either way, yes, I am very confident that the Democrats will survive. But what we mean when we say 'Democrats' may shift a little bit from what it is now. Politics is nothing if not malleable.

I was talking to some friends a little bit ago, and I truly think this is the optimal time for a 3rd party candidate to run for President and to start their own party. Obviously we're talking about Bernie here. Obviously he wouldn't be able to win the general, but I do think he'd be able to build up a Democratic-Socialist party if he wanted to at this point. There'd be a lot of support.

Might be hard to raise funds on the national level, as you'd have to build up a MASSIVE infrastructure to support all of this (like what the DNC,RNC have right now) but I think this is the best time to do it if they want to.

The Democratic Party will survive just like the Republican party survived throughout the Tea Party Revolution. But who knows what will come out of the party.

BernieBros are going to be pissed, it's just going to be interesting finding out if they hate their establishment party more then Trump. Cause if they hate the party more then Trump, they may not come out to vote, and that's going to sway this election back to a 2nd term for Donald Trump.

A new internal power structure has to arise, from the ashes of Clinton, the Center for American Progress, and the twisted sick fuck of the Clinton Foundation.

Will that be heavily influenced by international, anti-American interests?

Can the Democratic party survive given it's current trajectory towards socialism and federalist expansion?

I ask this as a disillusioned, former Democrat myself.  I'm wondering about the party's future.  To be honest, I'm not keen on it's survival if it keeps going the way it is.  I would rather see it die a quick and sudden death than see it turn into the "Federalist" party and attempt to consolidate control, or worse, turn into the socialist party that many registered Democrats want it to become.  

Then there's the Trump psychosis; most of the so-called "moderates" have gone completely bonkers over the fact that Trump was elected president.  They can't seem to come to terms with the fact that they lost in 2016.  Wasn't it enough that their party has controlled the Executive branch for the previous eight years?  Sixteen out of the previous 24?  Or, is that part of it, the fact that they had so much control for such a long period that they have gotten used to it?  One can even argue that Democrats didn't give up much control during the Bush years, as he wasn't able to keep a Republican majority in Congress or the Senate for more than a few minutes.

This delusional phenomena (I'll call it Trump derangement syndrome, or TDS for short) is what has me bothered by today's Democrats the most.  The constant delusions over collusion, and quid-pro-quo, and Porn Stars' memoirs, and who knows what's next.  The lies, the deception, and rabid refusal to get over the result of the last election have proven to be nothing but a big waste of time.  The weirdest part about it; they could actually get be getting a lot of stuff done with this president.  He's hardly a true Republican, he's more independent than anything.  He doesn't see issues strictly from a party line.  If Democrats actually cared about solving the problems that affect America they would be working with him, not trying to undermine him.  This behavior causes me to think there's more to it than just hating Trump and his twitter feed.  I makes me believe that there is deep rooted corruption, not only in the Democratic party, but also among the Republican "Never Trumpers."  These people will put in more effort to protect their power positions than they will to serve the American people.  And they themselves are making it clear and obvious who they are.

Some might argue that the Democratic party is being swallowed up from within it's own ranks by so-called "Democratic Socialists," and that the more moderate Democrats are feeling disenfranchised by this trend.  I would argue that's only part of the equation, possibly the smaller part.  There have been socialists within the Democratic party for most of my life, but until recently they were marginalized by the more main-stream Democrats.  I believe that the country is largely tired of TDS, and it's divisiveness.  

I live a very liberal part of the country, and most of my family and friends fall into that category.  Up until a few months ago one couldn't speak of his endorsement of Trump without getting a ration of disdain from those within earshot.  Those who spoke of their disdain for Trump were met with accolades and agreement.  But, within the last couple of months that seems to be changing.  The most vociferous anti-Trumpers are now being largely ignored.  Repeating the Main Stream Media's criticisms of Trump are now being met with arguments and challenges as opposed to accolades and agreement.  Are the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot with their hatred for Trump?  Are people starting to equate it with a hatred for America?

There used be a time when when there were very few differences between Democrats and Republicans, and most of those differences were limited to social liberties.  Both parties were in favor of supporting the middle class, preserving the American ways of life such as freedom and liberty.  Many Democrats of the past were pro second amendment, pro capitalism, in favor of lowering taxes for the poor and middle classes.  Are those Democrats completely gone, are they a thing of the past?  Or, will the Democratic party spit into two factions; the Democrats who hold to the historical doctrine of the party, and the Democratic Socialists who want the party to turn the party to towards socialism and federal control?

Where does it go from here?