Topic: Can unnecessary taxation be avoided when withdrawing crypto profits? (Read 169 times)

In Russia, the gambling business in the 1990s also had very high taxes, which were more than 50%, but the state could not control casino profits.
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Is it possible to buy products and sell them with low taxes? If that is possible, you can make a deal with a merchant to buy or supply products such as phones or a car and resell them with low taxes instead of transferring them to the bank, or try to make the sale in one payment in order to bear the tax once. There is no one way to reduce your taxes and you must take these tips from a legal advisor otherwise you may end up paying higher taxes or worse be arrested.

There are not a lot you can do to avoid the tax and you know there are stiff penalties and fines for tax evasion, so the best thing that you can do is to incorporate your taxes into the timing of the sell orders. A lot of people will continuously trade on small spikes in the price and that will get them labelled as professional traders.... you have to buy constantly and hoard to sell at a ATH (All-Time-High) .... not with every spike in the price.

It is obvious that your government are f#@$king Crypto currency traders through the ears with those percentages. They want investors to trade with Fiat investment options... not Crypto currencies. 

You can buy stablecoins like USDT or DAI. But I prefer DAI because most of the other stablecoins have a central entity that can freeze people's assets at any time, for whatever reason, while DAI is decentralized.

Whichever one you chose, you're going to need a small amount of Ethereum or whatever the blockchain's native currency is, in order to pay the tx fees when you sell the stablecoins later.

Well, first I hope that the solution you find, if you find it, is one of (legal) tax avoidance and not (illegal) tax evasion.


Those also seem pretty high taxes to me.


I think the same. The money the consultation costs you can save you a lot of money in taxes and problems in the future.

You might want to look into doing peer-to-peer non-KYC bitcoin. I don't know if you can do peer to peer with altcoins but I have no interest in them.

In the EU are capital gains taxes significantly less if you are investing or holding at least one year, like in the US?

Depends on the country, some of them have a "threshold" it seems, a limit that you can withdraw every month without paying too much taxes.

We are a socialist nation. Free stuff for everyone at the cost of enormous taxes. 60% of my gross (pre tax) wage vanishes in 1) rent to the owner of the building in which I work, 2) income tax and 3) social contribution which is another tax, specifically for health care plans. Basically we don't work for ourselves. I always enjoyed the quality education here but I can make more money in much less taxed countries. An osteopath in the USA makes 4 to 5 times more per year. I think I'd be welcome there, with a green card.

Belgium was always seen as a good example of the world's wealthiest middle class through socialism. But this is because of huge tax collection + the fact that our government has spent so much money that debt vs GDP has spiralled out of control (107%). We are now at the point where inflation is so bad that we can't afford to live this way anymore. Far too many people exploited the system with unlimited unemployment benefits. The end of that road is near.

Keep in mind that banks hate crypto. Fighting back with huge taxes serves at least 2 goals:
1) It discourages people to leave their fake money system
2) Governments get a huge cut

Like saying that the entire account was donated to a family member who lives in South America.
I don't think they can tax me for sending a 20k wallet (or its content) to someone who is not a resident in the country in which I have to pay taxes.
I could have my 78 year old mother in law go through KYC and transfer it to her crypto account, that she obviously can't manage.

50% being a full time trader? That's nuts, you're trading for your taxes.

I thought the news about the proposed tax percentage on India is crazy but no. The one that you've mentioned there in Belgium is a lot crazier than of the 30% in India.

Try to find the local community there that are into crypto. We're not from your country so we don't basically have the idea on what must be done. I guess those people in your local that does the same have been doing some things that can be suggested to you.

I know this same system from when I played online poker (about 12 years ago) and it is the reason why I never got involved before.
I was interested with BTC at $200 and of course I regret not getting involved. But I always knew that eventually this would happen. I just expected it sooner.
I'm also self employed (health care) and the fear of all of us is getting a visit from a tax inspector. We're supposed to keep all files regarding tax returns of the last 3 years, and if you get a visit of them they are guaranteed to find something to make you pay. And we are already one of the most heavily taxed countries on earth.

Getting involved with crypto is probably like sending an open invitation (through the bank, who will flag us) to have a tax inspector come over and rob us for every euro they can.

I just don't see how they can verify exactly which cryptos we hold, because we take them off of the exchange into cold storage. My goal was always to keep all profits out of the banking sector. Because it will inevitably lead to confiscation.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE
NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE

you could just move your coins from one wallet to another and then move coins minus loss back to show a papertrail of "loss"
EG
imagine a 20% bad bet/trade/theft STORY

BC1qWeThePeople 0.5367 -> bc1qSecretwallet 0.5367

bc1qSecretwallet 0.5367 -> BC1qWeThePeople 0.42936
                                    \->BC1qSecretwalletA 0.10734

now you can show a paper trail that publicly shows you put into a private trade 0.5367. but you could only trade back at the 20% loss amount thus only getting 0.42936

the 'secret wallet' you claim as being someone else you dont know
you then only declare you have 0.42936
repeat a few times.. and when you are at 0.053(10% left) and the price then 10x you can sell and show you had multiple bad deals. and then one good deal that brought you back to breaking even

not declaring your secret wallet as being yours. but left aside for other spending elsewhere like while on vacation or via wife.

---

other ways is to approach someone that can create loan certificates recognised by authorities(official money service)
you ask for a $200k loan after a 10x market pump of your $20k. whereby you pay them btc to settle up

loans are not taxable

its best to speak to a financial adviser because there is a THIN line between legitimate tax avoidance. vs illegal tax evasion. but in both cases you do need to show proof of funds transactions should they ever question you or want to audit your paperwork

It's frustrating really to be taxed for crypto profits mostly when charges will be inclusive in the withdrawal process.
The taxing system varies for each countries I believe, because it would be quite a serious business and more people will prefer to just stick to the traditional white collar jobs, instead of seeking for an alternative source of income or probably mainstream income in trading or HoDling BTC.

I am sorry but what the fuck! with that kind of taxes, you are basically working like a slave for your government. I can't imagine working hard to earn money just for the majority of it to be taken by the government.

is your wife with you in Belgium? if she is, won't the tax be the same for her or are the tax you mentioned are just applicable to Belgian citizens?

In as much as I do not support shitcoins or other cryptocurrencies I will still make a suggestion that can help you in this kind of situation.

Your idea of using your wife's identity from another country might also be good for you if only it will work but if it may not be successful you can consider diversifying your bitcoin instead of losing when the price is bearish, can withdraw you profits into stable coins like usdt or any other coin that is attached to the price of a currency. This method you can be quite safe from government taxation for the time being.

This category system is fucking stupid in my opinion. Tax people who've been in the industry for so long but make it so vague that people wouldn't have the slightest clue what it means to be a category three trader in Belgium? What an utter joke.

The first thing you should make sure, when proposing a new ordinance or a law is to make sure that no one misconstrues it, so as to not make people liable for violating it get away under vague grounds. Not that taxing people for crypto usage is a massive movement in the first place, but it just grinds my gears that they propose such a particular law under super vague terms. It's frustrating honestly.

So I intend to invest 20k in a few cryptos.
I'm located in Belgium and I am currently looking up information about taxation on crypto profits.
It looks like our government is changing tax declaration forms, with a subdivision "diverse holdings" in which these have to be declared.

The Belgian government developed 3 categories of speculators, and the way we are treated depends on the category in which we fall.

1) amateur
2) occasional trader
3) professional trader

Obviously the government has made vague, subjective guidelines to categorize us such as "not taking many risks" and "doing it as a hobby".

It says that category 1 are long term holders who don't trade a lot.
Category 2 has to declare crypto holdings on the tax sheet and is exposed to a 33% tax (!!!) upon any withdrawal.
Category 3 are people who mainly trade for a living and they are taxed 50% (!!!) upon withdrawals. They are also forced to pay other taxes for health insurance. I'm in this category with my regular job and about 60% of my gross wage vanishes in taxes.

This kind of wealth confiscation reminds me of my time as an online poker player.
Governments want a huge cut of withdrawals, but they give you 0 compensation on losses.
It is simply not possible to become profitable with such a system and it is not fair.
This withdrawn money serves to reinvest later, but we can't do that if each withdrawal is taxed.

Imagine that BTC goes up 10x and then a crash is expected. I have to withdraw but can't leave money on the exchange (all of them in legal fights). I can't withdraw to a bank because it leads to enormous taxation. Is there any way to preserve profits without withdrawing to any bank? For example by buying other assets directly in BTC and not declaring them (jewelry). I think that this is legal.

I'm concerned that simply because of the amount I wish to invest, I will not be seen as an amateur. While in reality I am. Governments obviously want to put us in category 2 and 3.

An option I thought about is to make a crypto account for my wife, who is Brazilian. Brazil has lower taxes on crypto withdrawals.