Can virtual wallets be confiscated by courts?

darkangel11

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Quote from: Brunus on October 13, 2019, 03:38:52 PM

Well, if you're stupid enough to let your court know your address, you deserve to have it confiscated ...
Otherwise, it's so easy - at least for now - to keep it a secret that there's no reason to worry.

And here's when we're touching theory vs practice. Theoretically court can order you to do almost anything. They can take property, put you into debt, search your house, take all your personal belongings even the ones that don't belong to you but someone else like friends and family, they can take your freedom they can make you work for them they can even take your voting rights. This is their ability but to execute is another thing. We all know they can't take your money if they can't find it. They can't put you in jail if they can't catch you, so if you don't give them your private key they won't get it.

Brunus

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Well, if you're stupid enough to let your court know your address, you deserve to have it confiscated ...
Otherwise, it's so easy - at least for now - to keep it a secret that there's no reason to worry.

bitbunnny

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These wallets have to be placed somwhere, they need to have some provider who has the obligation to provide requested data to law enforcement and other authorities.
So, the answer is yes, for the needs of criminal procedure or other legal mather wallets and funds they contain could be confiscated.
But of course that also depends on the legal system from country to country and how are cryptocurrencies and crypto services defined and regulated.

senin

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Such a possibility is quite probable, however, a number of conditions are necessary for this.
Firstly, cryptocurrency in the state must be legalized and have a certain legal status. Without this, it is very difficult for courts to make decisions regarding cryptocurrencies.
Secondly, the court must have at its disposal information about a secret key or another way of accessing the wallet where the cryptocurrency is located. Without this, any court decision on the confiscation of cryptocurrency will not be implemented, and therefore it makes no sense to make it.

TheClownSong

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If virtual money or cryptocurrency regulated by government, for courts its more easily because its trackable. The best thing about cryptocurrency is the ledger is transparant and anybody can see the transaction and its hard to duplicate the transaction data. Government can confiscated virtual money because they have regulation about it if the money used for illegal transaction or criminal activity

basyang

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Well, for me it depends on the government of a country if they banned or legal or have a regulation about using cryptocurrency, the court can not confiscate your cryptocurrency if they have no basis or any rules that can break because of using virtual currency. So if you know how to use cryptocurrency avoid using it in illegal activities because they might do an action to stop using it.

2chase

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I like cryptocurrency, including because the things about which the author of this topic says - really have a place to be. This means that no one can force you to tell your private keys to someone if you don’t want it, it’s just physically impossible to do, none of the law enforcement officers will torture you in order to get this information from you.

BTCGOLD

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There is many wallets that have been conficated. I think there are only two possibilities for the wallet to be confiscated. It may be the takeover of data storages (hard disks, CD/DVD, memory stick..) on which there are private keys saved, or the overtaking of exchange wallet.

jcpone

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Maybe for now it is not possinle to confiscate any virtual wallet by any court or institution. This is the main reason why a lot criminals and syndicates are using bitcoin to hide their illegal activities. However, as soon as the world accept and recognize cryptocurrency, for sure regulations will be done.

rickyNmorty

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Quote from: Netnox on November 27, 2018, 11:28:24 AM

This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

Possible it is but then it should go with the right jurisdiction. In which everything must be on the law and the law will be fair. And also we are talking about a property in which they are about to get to.you, therefore it is indeed important to have rules regarding to this. But as of today I am not sure if there is a country who have such law.

anjho.ace

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How will they know who owns the wallet?
How will the court confiscate the wallet to whom?
Virtual wallet is protected by private keys and everyone can create wallet anonymously.

mummybtc

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Yes, it can, there are mny BTC wallet that was confiscated from SIlk road owner, provider you give them access to the private keys, this is why of possible one need to memorise the private keys but the down side to this is if something happen and ones family will not be able to gain access to this wealth

sinkfish

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if unknown then it wont.

darklus123

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Digital wallets were highly moderated by the government(except for crypto traders). So any form of fraud can be a subject of investigation and yes they can confiscate the amount. I've seen a lot of HYIP that shutdowns because they have violated paypal rules and paypals were ordered to surrender the amount to the government during the investigation

When it comes to crypto , it depends because it happens already that the us government mandated coinbase to give the personal data for a possible tax evasion cases but they refuse to

MainIbem

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You noticed that many exchanges are conforming to KYC. The KYC is linked to your virtual wallet. So if you have a court judgment confiscating your assets and you think it will not affect your 'virtual' then you have to think again. Cryptocurrencies are not here to conceal peoples assets.

cc80aa

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there are many different kind of digital wallet some of the wallet have your kyc profile if the government investigate about your wallet. yes they can trace if the company have giving a details to the government side.

iMark

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Quote from: realcrypto on December 03, 2018, 07:22:23 AM

If monetary law enforcement agency know about your digital asset it means the owner of wallet or the exchange that you are using is working hand in hand with Government. I think this is possible because of the rate at which most exchange are asking for KYC.

Yeah it could happen, the government could have seized all your assets if you saved on one of the third party exchanges that had
control of your assets. but this will not apply if you save it in a decentralized wallet

Pumapipa

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In my opnion, virtual wallets like this that we are using are to be considered admissible to any court and can be confiscated shall it be warranted by the presiding judge. Virtual wallets may or may not contain assets that can be liquidated and can be presented in any court. This can be an example of evidences that can be used against a person for example in grounds of money laundering.

Rena5

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It depends from where nation we belong,certain laws are applied according to the crimes or disobedience done.Upon all the different views here in the forum it depends always on rules and regulations of the government we belong.
Virtual wallets can be confiscated by courts, its possible once they know some illegal activities or dealings online.There are experts on this kind of problems
nowadays with the latest technology online.Protect virtual wallets as much as we can.
Just to be fair and free from any problem regarding your virtual wallets or bitcoins on hand.Have a clean living always.

iv4n

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Governments can confiscate what ever they lay their hands on. If there isn't a law about it be sure that they will make one ASAP. When it's come to bitcoin and governments there is a way to cheat them, simply buy a hardware wallet, before sending bitcoins use mixer, disconnect the wallet and you are safe, of course don't spread words about it and you will be just fine.
I think everyone should have that kind of backup with some coins there, you never know when will government knock on your door with papers about paying tax and giving them your coins.

badungs

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in my opinion it can happen. if we have violated the rule of law in the country we have occupied, then all evidence can be confiscated by state security forces, including digital wallets. security forces can confiscate all of our digital assets and wallets because we have misused crypto and used crypto to harm many people.

Ozero

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I think that it is quite possible to confiscate a cryptocurrency by court decision, which is stored in virtual e-wallets. I even read somewhere about several such examples of court decisions. Of course, for this, the court should be aware of the necessary information about such a wallet and, above all, access to the secret key of this wallet or purses. The decision itself without its execution also does not mean anything, since everyone who holds a secret key to the key will still have access to it even after the decision to impose an arrest or confiscation. In order to enforce this court decision, it will be necessary to transfer the cryptocurrency that has been seized or confiscated to another wallet controlled by the investigative or judicial authorities.

Oilacris

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

This is the beauty on using up cryptocurrencies which once you do able to store up your coins or belongings no one can able to access it or bruteforce.
Even if the government or law do have the power to confiscate or rights to deduct but they cant do anything as long the users is unknown or doesn't permit
any access on the wallet.

cotton ball

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Quote from: nur rochid on December 03, 2018, 10:52:24 AM

Quote from: realcrypto on December 03, 2018, 07:22:23 AM

If monetary law enforcement agency know about your digital asset it means the owner of wallet or the exchange that you are using is working hand in hand with Government. I think this is possible because of the rate at which most exchange are asking for KYC.

but to confiscate it, the court must have a law that is legal. therefore it will be difficult from the court if it is in the government that does not have a legal rule on this matter

in some cases, the evidence instrument does not have to have legal validity, the flow of transactions traced can come from various sources and the most important is the identical algorithm equation. all forms of fraud have unusual ways and in handling them also require "unusual" clauses.

gentlemand

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Quote from: nur rochid on December 03, 2018, 10:52:24 AM

but to confiscate it, the court must have a law that is legal. therefore it will be difficult from the court if it is in the government that does not have a legal rule on this matter

It's worth money so the government will take it. There is no specific regulation over a painting or your collectible Hulk Hogan lunchbox. They still have value and someone else will give them money for it so off it goes.

nur rochid

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Quote from: realcrypto on December 03, 2018, 07:22:23 AM

If monetary law enforcement agency know about your digital asset it means the owner of wallet or the exchange that you are using is working hand in hand with Government. I think this is possible because of the rate at which most exchange are asking for KYC.

but to confiscate it, the court must have a law that is legal. therefore it will be difficult from the court if it is in the government that does not have a legal rule on this matter

FunGate

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This depends both on the virtual wallet and the court. Not all courts and countries' governments follow their own laws and a certain types of crypto storage are more protected and fool-proof than others.

From my understanding, the Virie market is one of those 'free market' "solutions." Might be something to look into.

realcrypto

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If monetary law enforcement agency know about your digital asset it means the owner of wallet or the exchange that you are using is working hand in hand with Government. I think this is possible because of the rate at which most exchange are asking for KYC.

CASTIEL05

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Quote from: Fies7aa on November 26, 2018, 07:22:46 PM

Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Remember is different per country, but if they know anything about a virtual wallet and the government wants to seize the currency they can try to hack into your account, or go to the company where the wallet is stored and ask for corporation. If how ever they don't find any clues that you own a virtual wallet, then there should be no problem other than going to jail because you cannot pay ur debt.

Why this question? Do you run a pharmacy lol

I am not an attorney but I read some stuff about this. The authorities can confiscate our digital wallet by virtue of search warrant. If there is a search warrant, the investigator can seize any of our property that has a conncetion to the case or crime. Well, digital wallet is connected in graft and corruption, robbery and hacking. It may solve the case.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Netnox on November 27, 2018, 11:28:24 AM

This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

They seized his live unencrypted computer. That's how they accessed the coins. If he'd managed to shut down and purge his computer before being arrested and refused to let them know how to get into it they could not have gained ownership of those coins.

No court can confiscate a properly set up wallet. It's not technically possible. However since they have jurisdiction over you they can force some extremely unpleasant things on you yourself until or unless you agree to let them in.

If they never know about it then they can't force anything about it on you. You can bet your bippy they'll be watching any financial movements if they suspect you of something very closely though. In that case you need to stay away from any fiat through an exchange or traceable expenditure such as via Bitpay.

DAVETUN

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The cryptocurrency platform is still evolving, presently courts cannot confisticated your wallets except you declare and release your private key, In the near future when there will be global acceptance of the platform, the technological developmetn will be develop to a level where you can declare your portfolio, just as the fiat bank account balance.

Netnox

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Quote from: Impulseboy on November 27, 2018, 11:35:57 AM

Quote from: Netnox on November 27, 2018, 11:28:24 AM

This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

Who auctioned the coins? The FBI? That is unethical, is it not? He probably worked on those coins but someone just auctioned it off when they took it away from him? Do you think there should be a way we can store coins in a virtual wallet that the court cannot confiscate?

Yes.. it was the FBI who auctioned his coins under the order from the courts. He had stored them in a virtual wallet, but the FBI agents were able to find the private key and transfer the coins. Anyway, those coins will be of little use for him. He is jailed for life without a chance of parole.

Cosbycoin

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Yes they can confiscate your cryptocurrency if they are aware of it, it’s possible. Whether crypto assets are legal or illegal in your country, I believe the government can always confiscate it. It only gets worst when it is illegal in your country, cause you will also be punished severally for holding an asset that has been declared as illegal by the government of your country. In a place where it is legal, they won’t confiscate it if they are not aware you are in possession of cryptocurrency. Hope I gave the right answer to your question.

Xising

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Quote from: Fies7aa on November 26, 2018, 07:22:46 PM

Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Remember is different per country, but if they know anything about a virtual wallet and the government wants to seize the currency they can try to hack into your account, or go to the company where the wallet is stored and ask for corporation. If how ever they don't find any clues that you own a virtual wallet, then there should be no problem other than going to jail because you cannot pay ur debt.

Why this question? Do you run a pharmacy lol

That's right. Every country has their own set of laws. However, if you speak of cyber laws these days, many countries have been updating their laws to cater also that kind of crimes, since there are so many crimes perpetrated online or with the use of the internet. Today, there are a wide array of cyber crimes, and thus, it needs evidence that are mostly cyber in nature as well. Therefore, in many countries, it has given the court power to subpoena or check on online records and use them as evidence in order to help settle cases unlike before when technology is not as widely used as today.

Capt00

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Quote from: Pab on November 30, 2018, 02:49:02 AM

If virtual currencies are illegal than our wallets can be blocked
If you are suspected for criminal activity can be blocked
Anyway i use vpn
Recommend you to use proton vpn
Even free version works rally well and you are protected
My internet is working better even with his vpn

You are right, then if that illegal also our wallet should be locked by into them, even if having a VPN then your wallet has compiled with KYC that most likely wallets having now in our personal data especially web wallets or apps wallet that we might convert to our local fiat.
Then, yes, it might be our wallet can be confiscated by authorities if we have commit crimes.

Pab

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If virtual currencies are illegal than our wallets can be blocked
If you are suspected for criminal activity can be blocked
Anyway i use vpn
Recommend you to use proton vpn
Even free version works rally well and you are protected
My internet is working better even with his vpn

peter0425

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Quote from: aad140386 on November 29, 2018, 01:34:03 PM

I am also interested in this question. It became especially interesting after the SEC added 2 Bitcoin wallet of Iranian citizens suspected of fraud to the ban list. I just can not understand how the SEC will be able to influence these people with this decision? After all, now nothing prevents them from exchanging their bitcoins for another cryptocurrency and finally cash out this money. For example, through monero. And no one will know that these are the exactly this people.

Exactly, although its not the SEC by the Treasury Department and they even gave warnings not to deal with that Bitcoin address. So its possible that US might be able to pressure courts to issue an order to confiscate wallets as well. And we all know that US will do everything in their power to weed out those criminals hiding through crypto so right now we might see in happened in the future, just saying.

BlueStackz

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Theoretically no, but in practicality it can be. The difference is can they prove you have bitcoins, if you are using something like coinbase for example and give your KYC information to them and make money and so forth, they will ask for your taxes and if you do not provide them that they will try to confiscate something from you, starting from more "real" stuff but can work their way into coinbase as well.

Nothing like that has happened as far as I know but doesn't mean it can't be. However if you are using something without any name that means nobody really knows you have bitcoins anywhere and they can't confiscate something they don't know about. Charlie Shrem recently got burned about it because he failed to pay a million dollars in back taxes whereas he bought a bunch of stuff with bitcoin. Nobody could trace his bitcoins but it is obvious he has some.

aad140386

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I am also interested in this question. It became especially interesting after the SEC added 2 Bitcoin wallet of Iranian citizens suspected of fraud to the ban list. I just can not understand how the SEC will be able to influence these people with this decision? After all, now nothing prevents them from exchanging their bitcoins for another cryptocurrency and finally cash out this money. For example, through monero. And no one will know that these are the exactly this people.

hahay

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I think all forms of ownership can be confiscated or used as evidence in court in all cases and not only debt. In the modern era like now, I think the government has its own law about all crimes in the online world, except that cases like this still seldom rise to the surface because usually courts only look for evidence in physical form, if someone is guilty without having a rough form so they usually continue to look for evidence to be brought to court, so in my opinion it is possible that the virtual wallet can be confiscated by the court.

Greed Dev

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The government can not prohibit and confiscate our wallets. We have a private key and they can not do anything about us. In the crypto market, the government does not have the capacity to apply the law here. This is a decentralized market and they can not do anything else. do not worry.

b3llsf1l3s

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Quote from: KrishaBitcoin on November 27, 2018, 12:44:02 AM

If Bitcoin is legal in a certain country then yes it can be confiscated by the court specially if it was involved in illegal activities like money laundering. If you are the wallet owner then the court will command you to give the private keys specially if the transactions are involving huge amounts. So lets just use Bitcoin in to good use but not in illegal transactions.

and in the end we will not be able to use the wallet again because it has been exposed and also if it only depends on the transaction history, it is likely that it will later be rejected because of less concrete evidence. The polemic about money laundering is indeed troublesome, because someone could buy / sell bitcoin to us on the pretext of investing but in fact, they make us become involved in this problem

magneto

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Two very important assumptions here.

Firstly, they would have to not recognise bitcoin as an asset at all, and secondly, they would have to not know where to look. And I think that both of them these criterion can't be fulfilled in most countries. Most countries do recognise bitcoin as some form of asset, and they do have quite extensive virtual currency teams by now I assume.

So I definitely wouldn't see bitcoin as some form of currency that is used by criminals as a safe haven (even though the media tries to get you to think this way), because all the same legal repercussions will apply if you conduct fraudulent activities with bitcoin, or if you go bankrupt etc. More likely than not, your wallet will get seized as a result of your wrongdoings if the extent is that high. I'm not sure why you're under the impression that bitcoin can't be touched, legally.

Umkar

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At the moment, while you can create anonymously wallets and transfer to other users of the network, you should not worry about blocking funds on the wallet. But when the adoption of cryptocurrencies and legalization begins, then most likely we all will have to go through the KYC procedure and all the wallets and the amount of funds they will be known to law enforcement agencies and it is possible that you can be held accountable for illegal actions, but still block your wallet no one can.

niteroy

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Technically, no one will be able to block your wallet even by court decision, but this only applies to decentralized coins, because Ripple can block any wallet in the system and freeze any funds on the wallet, especially since there have already been similar cases. With Bitcoin, nothing like this can happen due to its structure.

fauzan Ichsan

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Quote from: Muzika on November 28, 2018, 12:23:51 AM

it cant be if you can imagine how they be able to know it and since this kind of assets doesnt define on the book of law ( i dont know if what law we should follow ) but here in my country it is not indicated that kind of assets and even it was indicated it is still hard because there was no data bases for that and the identity of holder is not indicated also so it is hard for it to be confiscated that is why government does not want this kind of industry yet because they dont have control.

for now, in my country, of course It can't, because the government through Bappebti is still planning bitcoin to enter the trading market, not as a currency. therefore it is difficult for the court to confiscate our wallet, because there is no legal clarity

Muzika

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it cant be if you can imagine how they be able to know it and since this kind of assets doesnt define on the book of law ( i dont know if what law we should follow ) but here in my country it is not indicated that kind of assets and even it was indicated it is still hard because there was no data bases for that and the identity of holder is not indicated also so it is hard for it to be confiscated that is why government does not want this kind of industry yet because they dont have control.

Allura74

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Quote from: ecnalubma on November 27, 2018, 06:29:57 PM

I’m not a legal advisor but in my opinion I think this law is not crafted yet or will not be crafted. It will also depend on what jurisdictions, some countries may apply some may not. Just like the bank secrecy law that protect its clients from unnecessary inquiries but some can be voided by law. But for criminal cases I think it is necessary to confiscate such assets mostly if it involves in drugs and corruption without excuses and with solid evidence.

Virtual wallet for virtual currency does not hold true identity of a specific holder as the fact that virtual currency is a decentralized form but I think if has act against the law then it can be confiscated granting that they already have reliable evedince of that person who owned the wallet.

ecnalubma

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I’m not a legal advisor but in my opinion I think this law is not crafted yet or will not be crafted. It will also depend on what jurisdictions, some countries may apply some may not. Just like the bank secrecy law that protect its clients from unnecessary inquiries but some can be voided by law. But for criminal cases I think it is necessary to confiscate such assets mostly if it involves in drugs and corruption without excuses and with solid evidence.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on November 27, 2018, 05:32:29 PM

Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."

So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

it means they can't seize cryptocurrency if they can't recognize it when searching your devices, or if they can't break your wallet passphrase. if you encrypt wallet files or private keys effectively, they won't be able to access them.

if the government can seize your wallet, they gladly will. consider the case of silk road creator, ross ulbricht. or the other cases where the USMS auctioned off coins. supposedly, the bulgarian government is sitting on 213,000+ seized bitcoins.

Woah... that's a lot of money. So, basically, if the authorities know of the digital wallet's existence, then they will seize it. Otherwise, it will stay safe and sound. Sounds logical.

Ok, just to clarify for those who were wondering why I was asking this. It's just plain old curiosity and a healthy argument with a friend that lead me to this question.

Thanks, everyone.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."

So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

it means they can't seize cryptocurrency if they can't recognize it when searching your devices, or if they can't break your wallet passphrase. if you encrypt wallet files or private keys effectively, they won't be able to access them.

if the government can seize your wallet, they gladly will. consider the case of silk road creator, ross ulbricht. or the other cases where the USMS auctioned off coins. supposedly, the bulgarian government is sitting on 213,000+ seized bitcoins.

drm

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Can't confiscate anything without a private key or a .dat that isn't encrypted Wink

timerland

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Of course. As long as virtual currencies are accepted as private property, I don't see why they can't do that in case someone is in debt and assets are needed to repay the debt. It all differs country to country, because some countries may well have recognition for cryptocurrencies as property and can thus chase it down when it comes to legal issues, and others don't.

The article is suggesting that law enforcement doesn't know where to look, which is probably wrong in the majority of countries now given that bitcoin's been around for a decade.

Otherwise, all the U.S. bitcoin seizures, confiscations, and auctions would not have happened.

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Quote from: Netnox on November 27, 2018, 11:28:24 AM

This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

Who auctioned the coins? The FBI? That is unethical, is it not? He probably worked on those coins but someone just auctioned it off when they took it away from him? Do you think there should be a way we can store coins in a virtual wallet that the court cannot confiscate?

Netnox

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This is what happened with Ross Ulbricht, right? The FBI seized more than 200K coins from his wallet and later they auctioned all those coins. So my guess is that it is possible for the courts to confiscate the coins.

bubblebubble

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I think that app depends by your fiscal history.
In other words the court should dispose to block your crypto wallet if he knows you have one. And this happens if you deviare it...

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

I think they can if they force the person who owns it to give it to them while asking support from a tech person.

shield132

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Well, that happens when you have accounts in banks, government can close them, they can also stuck transactions like receive money on your name via western union, moneygram and etc but that also highly depends where you live. Outside us, I highly doubt government will close your pp, skrill and etc accounts, they simply won't be able to do that because these companies are out of your local governments control. No one can touch your own crypto wallets, that's why some people save money in crypto for bad days.

dothebeats

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Yes, especially if a country's laws are designed to do such in the event of misuse of funds or hints of fraudulent activities, or whatever reason they see fit. It's not surprising anymore if courts would order law enforcers to seize assets and digital wallets should the jury end up declaring that something has been breached in a country's law. In the end though, as long as something is unconstitutional, they have the 'right' to take these wallets forcibly, lol.

davis196

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No virtual cryptocurrency wallet provider or cryptocurrency exchange platform would risk losing their business for having people with illegal funds in their accounts.The exchange/wallet admins will give your virtual wallet to the government without any hesitation.That's why we need decentralized crypto exchange platforms and offline cold storage.

Semaj123

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Quote from: Ranly123 on November 27, 2018, 06:10:59 AM

Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

I am an expert on this kind of issue but if I base on what I have understood, our virtual wallets does not directly connected to our personal datas. So in my own opinion, it is really hard or impossible for the authority to confiscate what is never yours.

Well, it is clearly been stated what the OP has been found out and this is why government still investigating with this kind of issue. As we currently experiencing this what they called "KYC" procedure which I think a tracking options that probably been one of the factor that the government has been made of.

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Well, is all depend on the country where you reside because there are countries that monitor any crypto related transactions both on the dark web and on exchanges but if you make use to decentralized exchanges site there is possibilities for the law enforcement not to seize or know if you hold any kind of virtual currency if you keep your wallet very well. Mind you, it is better to be clean and not get problem with the law.

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

I am an expert on this kind of issue but if I base on what I have understood, our virtual wallets does not directly connected to our personal datas. So in my own opinion, it is really hard or impossible for the authority to confiscate what is never yours.

Douglasyukanov

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

the law knows for real status and assets that can be Sita in the form of physical assets and funds that have a legacy to be accounted for.
for the blockchain I don't think it will be touched legally but it can be used as proof of relaxation Funds for money laundering are carried out by alleged guilty of legal cases.

mensahkkofie

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

It would be very difficult to see that happening in any part of the world as this is almost impossible unless bitcoin or virtual currencies are legally accepted in that part of the world. The courts usually operates with legality and it is always difficult to see anything outside the legal boundaries being implemented.

KrishaBitcoin

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If Bitcoin is legal in a certain country then yes it can be confiscated by the court specially if it was involved in illegal activities like money laundering. If you are the wallet owner then the court will command you to give the private keys specially if the transactions are involving huge amounts. So lets just use Bitcoin in to good use but not in illegal transactions.

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Quote from: SnowAugustine on November 26, 2018, 02:43:49 PM

I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Remember is different per country, but if they know anything about a virtual wallet and the government wants to seize the currency they can try to hack into your account, or go to the company where the wallet is stored and ask for corporation. If how ever they don't find any clues that you own a virtual wallet, then there should be no problem other than going to jail because you cannot pay ur debt.

Why this question? Do you run a pharmacy lol

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I am just curious and have been googling on whether the law has rules about virtual wallets. Maybe I am just not really familiar with the technical terms so I do not understand well. Or I just didn't use the correct search terms.
To give an example, if you have debts or have to pay for alimony or something of the like, are virtual wallets included in your assets to be seized or something?
According to the summary of this article: https://www.acamstoday.org/real-considerations-for-law-enforcement-in-seizing-virtual-currency/
"The bottom line for law enforcement is that they cannot seize virtual currency if they do not recognize it and do not know where to look. Even if evidence of virtual currency is found, unless law enforcement is equipped with the knowledge and the tools to take secure possession of it, then it will not happen and criminals will keep their ill-gotten gains."
So does that mean that the law will not touch your virtual wallet in case of debt, for example?

Topic: Can virtual wallets be confiscated by courts? (Read 826 times)