Can We Consider This Casino An Industry Giant In Marketing Here In Bitcointalk

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

$7230

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

It's already been explained to you, but I'll put it another way: if they spend $7k on advertising it's because they get more than that $7k in deposits from advertising, probably a lot more.

A lot of people criticize the gambling section for spamming, but the huge amounts of money they move are a big part of the success of this forum. We must also take into account that the gambling houses have taken advantage of legal loopholes, although we have a tendency to more and more regulation and more KYC/AML, with which, the future trend I think is going to be at least that the returns obtained by the casinos are going to moderate.

Adbitco

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I don't think that is the only funds they spend on marketing, they could be involved in promotion like sponsoring marches or ads in other websites we may not have knowledge of it which might required more than just +$7k.
Secondly that amount is quite pretty enough for marketing and I believe others can spend more than that so they can't be seen as giant over here. Apparently, if they're spending such amount they knew their outcome and benefits which they derived from it, what I know mostly is that marketing is the heartbeat of every projects so any projects that fails to do proper marketing may not have the right exposure and hit to the targeted people across the globe.

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Quote from: ultrloa on December 15, 2022, 05:57:41 AM

Quote from: PX-Z on December 14, 2022, 07:31:02 PM

Quote from: Woodie on December 14, 2022, 12:43:48 PM

we have quite a number of names doing great things but having a big budget doesn't mean profitable, but to survive this long it might be the case Tongue

But without enough big budget, project will not survive this long. About being profitable, only their marketing and finance team knows it. Also, the fact that they stay this long, that it means that profit > marketing budget because if it's not, what's the reason of continuing the campaign if its not profitable.

They also add up some huge amount of prize in their contest and market it on this forum so we can really conclude that they are so successful by running their operations here since no company will spend a lot of money for nothing. And its not surprising at all bitcointalk is the biggest forum so for sure they got a lot of engagement here for what marketing options they do here.

Duelbits has done the right thing by concentrating its marketing here in Bitcointalk they have initial success and they push it to further cover territories, visitors of the Bitcointalk gambling section will not fail to notice the presence of Duelbits itd huge marketing allocation, zero scam accusations this will make them decide that this is a go-to casino.
You know a company's success by the way they market its platform and can keep up with it, so yes I consider them a marketing giant here in Bitcointalk.

RapTarX

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

I don't think so. Different casinos have different approaches to marketing. Maybe Duelbits spending more here as they considered bitcointalk campaign as a profitable marketing campaign. Nevertheless, the money you have mentioned here isn't a big some considering how much a casino earns & obviously, it's a business with a huge amount of money in hand. Besides, it's possible as well that they aren't new in the industry. If you look at Livecasino.io, they are spending a lot since the beginning. How? Because they are a sister site of sportsbet & bitcasino.

ultrloa

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Quote from: PX-Z on December 14, 2022, 07:31:02 PM

Quote from: Woodie on December 14, 2022, 12:43:48 PM

we have quite a number of names doing great things but having a big budget doesn't mean profitable, but to survive this long it might be the case Tongue

But without enough big budget, project will not survive this long. About being profitable, only their marketing and finance team knows it. Also, the fact that they stay this long, that it means that profit > marketing budget because if it's not, what's the reason of continuing the campaign if its not profitable.

They also add up some huge amount of prize in their contest and market it on this forum so we can really conclude that they are so successful by running their operations here since no company will spend a lot of money for nothing. And its not surprising at all bitcointalk is the biggest forum so for sure they got a lot of engagement here for what marketing options they do here.

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Quote from: Woodie on December 14, 2022, 12:43:48 PM

we have quite a number of names doing great things but having a big budget doesn't mean profitable, but to survive this long it might be the case Tongue

But without enough big budget, project will not survive this long. About being profitable, only their marketing and finance team knows it. Also, the fact that they stay this long, that it means that profit > marketing budget because if it's not, what's the reason of continuing the campaign if its not profitable.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

The campaign has been running for 113 weeks for a casino to run this long and allocating a very huge budget and inviting over 112 although the lineup is not yet completed do you think Duelbits can be considered an industry giant in terms of marketing here in Bitcointalk

I don't won't to burst your bubble but having a long running bitcointalk signature campaign doesn't automatically make it the biggest player in the gambling industry as this could be the cheapest marketing strategy out there! But when we consider the biggest casinos out there, Duelbits is certainly among them seeing how they have grown.... the partnerships they have take up with big sports icons and clubs you name it

Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

I know that Stake also has a huge budget and can be considered its closest rival here in Bitcointalk but Duelbits is maximizing their capacity by including senior and Full Member

Roobet, FortuneJack maybe Rollbit we have quite a number of names doing great things but having a big budget doesn't mean profitable, but to survive this long it might be the case Tongue

Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

Honestly will respect your opinion on this but If we were to consider casino's with the biggest social media following as a measure of success and not sig budgets , I think Gamdom and Roobet do standout but won't make this a contest but will appreciate their presence here on the forum.

Accardo

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Regardless of the forum members patronizing the Casinos the guests who read this forum click the banners placed on signature. So, with the big budgets it's a good sign that the forum is profitable and yields more traffic to their website. With such budget on a special interest board of gamblers is more effective than promoting on social media where many people may not be interested in such ads, thereby wasting lots of money. If I'm an ad manager I'd prefer a targeted community than a whole social media which is not targeted.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

You cannot look at the Duelbits gambling site with one eye, only guided by the campaign participants and advertisements for the Duelbits industry that are roaming Bitcointalk.

You also have to see the partners of Duelbits on the outside who are so big.
Example:
• Aston Villa Announces Partnership With Duelbits
• Oddin.gg partners with crypto casino Duelbits to bolster esports sportsbook offering
• The Argentine Football Association Presents Duelbits as Online Betting Regional Sponsor

I've seen reasons: Why Duelbits stands out

Quote

The online gambling market has been steadily growing over the last few years. Data from Zion Market Research estimates that the sports betting industry alone could be worth $155 billion by 2024, implying significant annualized growth.

In my opinion, Duelbits is currently one of the gambling industries that has the biggest budgets at the moment and has quite good partners out there, so from some of the data I have seen, of course Duelbits is one of the most successful giant industries currently in the fieldsportsbook.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

If we do look up closely on when they had decided to add up more which does simply indicates that they are really having that budget which they could allocate on weekly basis.
If we do observe out from week 1 which is really some sort of testing out and then later on adding up further more numbers which is playing in between 15-20 members for higher ranks
until it reach into this point and now they adding up more.

Sustaining that 7k per week is something that huge for marketing or almost 30k per month but if they are earning more then it would really be just a small amount for them to spend on.
What matter most is that they are really making money for them to sustain.

ethereumhunter

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Duelbits may want to grow their site more than now to make their promotions bigger. I am sure Duelbits already calculate how much their expenses are after doing all these things and with many promotions and offers on their site, this can attract more gamblers to come to their site and spend so much money. Yes, the casino that promotes Bitcointalk can become bigger and more trustworthy but that depends on how the site can manage its work and how promotions are.

Note3

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As a casino that spends a lot of money promoting on this forum? I'd say it does because duelbits beats stake.com which spends $5,000-$6,000 per week.

But duelbits isn't the biggest casino of all those doing signature campaigns, and considering all the promotion they do out there sponsoring Aston Villa and the Argentinian national team it's not a huge amount, but by them increasing the budget on signature campaigns proves that duelbits benefits from the marketing they do on this forum.

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Fact that Duelbits spends lot of money on signature campaigns doesn't means that they're giants in this industry. All main casinos (not just crypto) have huge budgets for advertising. Look at Sportsbet or Stake for example, they have deals with EPL clubs and it costs millions $ to advertise there. In comparison, signature campaign budgets, even for huge ones like Duelbits looks like a peanuts. And at the same time Sportsbet spending lot of money here with signature campaigm various promotions, sponsoring prediction pools and etc. And they're probably also spend lot of money on other types of advertising like banner ads or social media. Single signature campaign alone doesn't proves anything, even if it's huge, but probably shows that Duelbits is doing fine.
In gneral, gambling is probably least volatible crypto business, especially comparing with trading platforms and exchanges who also spent huge money for advertising in recent years. People gamble and it doesn't matter that much for them, whether Bitcoin costs $80k or $16k.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

If the lineup is completed
12 Full Members x 40 = $480
15 Snr Members x 55 = $825
45 Hero Members x 65 = $2925
40 Legendary x 75 = $3000

$7230

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

$7230 per week is nothing for a company that calls itself casino. Also, since they are paying upto 7K per week for marketing on this forum for months and years, this means that it's not the lost money, instead, it brings them more profit. Probably everyone knows Coca-Cola but they still spend huge amounts of money on marketing because they get more back from that activities.

Casinos are paying ten times more daily to huge influencers alone, tiny $7230 on this forum is truly nothing. Duelbits isn't an industry Giant in marketing even on this forum. I think that we can only call industry giant in marketing on this forum to only Chipmixer because there is almost no other way for them to promote their service except this forum and I believe they still make more money than any casino out there.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

Duelbits definitely advantage in this industry because this casino can survive 100+ more meaning they have got good traffic on bitcointalk forums so it lasts long more than two years they maintain signature campaign to keep operating here on budget right now for me this is still considered small because what we know is that Duelbits always gives big contest events with big prizes, starting from the Hallowen event, football predictions and now Christmas which is coming soon what is the total prize issued for that event? So obviously I think with the $7k budget that was just announced by the Hhampuz manager and starting in week 113 it's huge because we see this casino has expanded capacity in its signature campaign, but if you look at the budget outside of this forum it's probably bigger than this and especially now that Duelbits have teamed up with English club Aston Villa as a prime betting partnership.

ultrloa

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

I just saw this announcement from sir Hhampuz

Quote from: Hhampuz on November 28, 2022, 07:18:03 PM

We have 2x Full Member + 18x Hero Member + 20x Legendary Member positions open, apply now!

We are increasing the capacity for this campaign but it is not certain for how long....

That being said, we might just keep it at the larger capacity too.

The campaign has been running for 113 weeks for a casino to run this long and allocating a very huge budget and inviting over 112 although the lineup is not yet completed do you think Duelbits can be considered an industry giant in terms of marketing here in Bitcointalk I know that Stake also has a huge budget and can be considered its closest rival here in Bitcointalk but Duelbits is maximizing their capacity by including senior and Full Member

If the lineup is completed
12 Full Members x 40 = $480
15 Snr Members x 55 = $825
45 Hero Members x 65 = $2925
40 Legendary x 75 = $3000

$7230

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

If they can spend a lot of money promoting their casino here in bitcointalk then it means they earning a lot of money here, for sure they will never to that if they didn't get anything since its not wise action to do and they lose a lot of money if they just pursue this doing if they are not gaining anything in return. Besides if you look at their casino you will figure out how really successful they are so I guess we can only say they cannot pay those things if they decide to stop and cannot even do single marketing campaigns here or maybe even on outside of this forum.

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Quote from: aioc on December 01, 2022, 11:02:08 AM

This is in time for their huge giveaway Duelbits.com - $500k Christmas Giveaway December is the best time to launch a massive giveaway, gamblers will spend money to take a crack on these giveaways another one is 500 Casino they have 250k Christmas event I'm sure in the coming weeks many more are coming Duelbits started it I'm sure many more casinos are going to launch a holiday giveaways.

All of these show that Duelbits are doing well with their business but OP was claiming they are the most profitable casino for the year 2022 which can not be claimed unless there are any such survey which finds which casino made how much profit in a year. On the other hand, do we think crypto casino and sportbook will give such information unless they become a public limited company and do yearly audit?

Duelbits have a World cup promotion too where they are giving away $250k.

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Quote from: Lucius on November 30, 2022, 06:50:49 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 29, 2022, 12:13:47 PM

I was not talking about individuals but sportsbook and casinos.

You misunderstood me, I was referring to the OP and the reason he opened this topic, for him personally that amount is a lot of money. We have to understand that because some of the members of this forum come from countries where such an amount is a small fortune.

Businesses anywhere in the world will always have way more money than the respective individuals in their operating country, simply because they need more money to do business and buy stuff to generate a profit.

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Quote from: noorman0 on November 30, 2022, 10:18:11 PM

Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

Quote

We are increasing the capacity for this campaign but it is not certain for how long....

This is one of the massive marketing boosts, mostly in the context of certain events that are not yet known for sure (my guess is related to the world cup or also to welcome the new year). I dunno, I'm sure the Duelbits marketing team has taken a few approaches that they think will get more exposure.

This is in time for their huge giveaway Duelbits.com - $500k Christmas Giveaway December is the best time to launch a massive giveaway, gamblers will spend money to take a crack on these giveaways another one is 500 Casino they have 250k Christmas event I'm sure in the coming weeks many more are coming Duelbits started it I'm sure many more casinos are going to launch a holiday giveaways.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

Quote

We are increasing the capacity for this campaign but it is not certain for how long....

This is one of the massive marketing boosts, mostly in the context of certain events that are not yet known for sure (my guess is related to the world cup or also to welcome the new year). I dunno, I'm sure the Duelbits marketing team has taken a few approaches that they think will get more exposure.

robelneo

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I think not yet, but they will soon become, the fact that they are adding more posters and adding more budget that can easily tell us that they are doing good in their business and Bitcointalk contributed a lot to its popularity and reputation, it is a win-win situation for members here, for Bitcointalk and Duelbits, and its also the holiday season, and Duelbits is one step ahead on the promotion they know its the time of year where gamblers will gambler more and many new players will come in and look for a casino to start their venture in gaming

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They have the budget and probably the results are in the way they expected so they are just increasing the budget and will see how is it doing so that's how we should see. Casinos are one of the all time profit making industry so this isn't that big amount despite of seeing their potential market value, we can see it may be earned by the casino in few hours with just the withdrawal fee itself not from the betting amount.

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They make tons of money and every single penny they spend on marketing is on a budget that's not really going to hit them bad. But if they're spending that much per week or per month then it only means they have faith to the marketing style as it works for them.

Just like any other casino or brand that's not on the forum but spends a lot of money on advertising on social media or into the banners that we mostly see through google ads.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Lucius on November 30, 2022, 06:50:49 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 29, 2022, 12:13:47 PM

I was not talking about individuals but sportsbook and casinos.

You misunderstood me, I was referring to the OP and the reason he opened this topic, for him personally that amount is a lot of money. We have to understand that because some of the members of this forum come from countries where such an amount is a small fortune.

My bad brother. Well true. In fact long ago even £2k was a lot to me. I remember in an winter afternoon, I was waiting to withdraw some cash from the ATM and an elderly woman was checking her balance. Obviously she was slow and I was losing my patience. When the balance was showing on the screen it was some £2,xxx and I was thinking damn this woman is rich 😂

Thanks to bitcoin LOL

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I don't think Duelbits is the "most profitable casino in the industry." Even so, it doesn't mean they cannot afford to spend $7,230 for their marketing here. It's a casino, after all. It's a money-making machine. But even if its profit is smaller than that, which is highly unlikely, it's still an amount worth spending. It's marketing. They need to invest in it if they want their brand to be known.

But really, $7,230 is a small amount. Compared with Stake, for example, that has a partnership with the UFC, a football club, Drake, and others. They're worth millions.

bittraffic

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All casinos are trying to keep thier campaign running in bitcointalk even the scam 1xbit despite the despise on them. Duelbit can keep running the marketing for as long as they could but the competitors like Stake and Sportsbet are also running it forever.

Bitcointalk is just one of the busiest forums not just for Bitcoin users but for gamblers. I think Rollbit is also racing this track. As long as the forum allows advertising, a lot of users are going to keep wearing the signatures.

Husires

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It is impossible to continue with this number of participants for a long time. From round one to ~100, the numbers of participants were 12, 15, 25, 25, but with the World Cup, the profits are great, and therefore the spending will increase. I doubt that they will continue with these numbers until the end of the year.

The amounts are small. the cost of official advertisements is millions of dollars on our Local TV or city while the cost here is 360k per year in bitcointalk, which seems not expensive if we take into account that the number of users will decrease.

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 29, 2022, 12:13:47 PM

I was not talking about individuals but sportsbook and casinos.

You misunderstood me, I was referring to the OP and the reason he opened this topic, for him personally that amount is a lot of money. We have to understand that because some of the members of this forum come from countries where such an amount is a small fortune.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

Why do you think that other casinos can't set aside such a budget for marketing on the BitcoinTalk.org forum? We have dozens of signature campaigns on the forum, paying thousands of dollars a week, that have been running for years continuously, and we currently don't know how long Duelbits casino intends to run this campaign.

Every business, including casino platforms, have their own marketing strategy they believe will bring them the best results. Some casino platforms prefer to spend money on affiliate marketing, while others focus on social media campaigns. However, sometimes the best methods are not always the most expensive ones.

coin-investor

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I still think that Stake.com is the biggest investor when it comes to marketing here in this forum and outside of it, they have major sponsors on so many sporting events and they have celebrities as ambassadors something that other casinos including Duelbits don't have they can choose as many participants as they want but they prefer to settle for Hero and Legendary members, I think Stake.com can break the record as the longest campaign here because they are on top in the industry and they know the value of branding.

Plaguedeath

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If you're talking about the number participants, of course it's huge since they're want to hire 112 participants. But if you're talking about the payout, surely Duelbits isn't really a giant since there's few other casino can pay higher than that. Don't forget casino is make a lot money from people who're keep losing, withdrawal fee, abandon account, gambler who break the rules and internal exchange fee. $7K isn't a big money for them, their daily profit might bigger than that.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

$7230

Obviously I don't know Duelbits' financials(and how big/small the platform is), but gambling platforms in general makes a good amount of money; so I'm going to assume $7k is probably just spare change.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Lucius on November 29, 2022, 11:54:25 AM

Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 29, 2022, 11:15:26 AM

It's peanut for Casino and sportsbook. A large casino should have millions of dollars of bankrolls.

For some, $7000 is obviously a lot of money, so some are surprised that certain companies spend so much on advertising on this forum. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that their direct income from advertising on this forum exceeds their investment many times over - because only one passionate player with a slightly bigger wallet is enough to pay for the campaign for the whole week, or maybe even for the whole month.

I was not talking about individuals but sportsbook and casinos. The amount of money they make is enormous. Those of us who are not big gamblers may feel that how do the casino survives but when a casino with millions of users depositing even $100 per week, it's a billion dollar income even considering some lose to pay the winners. We had many scam accusations and they were settled later. Few of them I can remember. Once was over 335 BTC and another one was over 1500 LTC. Fact is, we are only seeing those are coming in public but they should have many more big clients like these.

I think with bitcointalk for some of them it's a cheaper advertising option. When casinos sponsor an international club or event, they spend millions.

Lucius

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Quote from: BitcoinGirl.Club on November 29, 2022, 11:15:26 AM

It's peanut for Casino and sportsbook. A large casino should have millions of dollars of bankrolls.

For some, $7000 is obviously a lot of money, so some are surprised that certain companies spend so much on advertising on this forum. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if I found out that their direct income from advertising on this forum exceeds their investment many times over - because only one passionate player with a slightly bigger wallet is enough to pay for the campaign for the whole week, or maybe even for the whole month.

As long as there is interest in advertising, we should not doubt that it is profitable for all those who do it, and this means that there is a significant number of active members and guests who regularly browse the forum.

BitcoinGirl.Club

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

$7230

It's peanut for Casino and sportsbook. A large casino should have millions of dollars of bankrolls. Stake spends over $6k per week. It's not just the gambling companies but other services are doing the same.

If I am not wrong then Chipmixer is spending over $15k per week. Best change is also spending over $4k per week. Of course the conversion from the community worth a value for these companies. Mainly they want to see their name all over.

Quote from: examplens on November 29, 2022, 10:38:33 AM

it is very difficult to draw a conclusion as to who is the most profitable because they do not share such data at all.

A small casino which is not spending much in advertising may have higher profit margin than a bigger one. It's obviously relative to businesses.

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Quote from: Saisher on November 29, 2022, 09:09:07 AM

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

I'm not sure what's confusing you here, but for a long time the trend is that gambling and porn are the most profitable businesses on the Internet (probably also offline). if you think that $7230 is huge, how much do you think ads cost in premier league matches (i think I saw their banner there)?
For example, Sportsbet and Stake have been sponsors of some PL clubs for years, and I believe that it is a question of million-dollar contracts. Also, you can find that Rollbit has in their hot ETH wallet more than $1.2 million at the moment reference. it's just one of their addresses.
it is very difficult to draw a conclusion as to who is the most profitable because they do not share such data at all.

fortunecrypto

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I can consider them considering that they spend that huge amount of money on advertising, both Stake and Duelbits are proof that it's worth marketing here in Bitcointalk, and we call this branding, Duelbits and Stake could have stopped after 3 to 5 months like what other casinos have done and done but they opted to brand themselves here in Bitcointalk because branding is important and gamblers are attracted and considered these casinos who spend money as a long term casino that you can rely on to protect their reputation by being fair.
There are other casinos that are running for a long time already and they too believe that a signature campaign is a good way to advertise and brand your platform.

Saisher

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I just saw this announcement from sir Hhampuz

Quote from: Hhampuz on November 28, 2022, 07:18:03 PM

We have 2x Full Member + 18x Hero Member + 20x Legendary Member positions open, apply now!

We are increasing the capacity for this campaign but it is not certain for how long....

That being said, we might just keep it at the larger capacity too.

The campaign has been running for 113 weeks for a casino to run this long and allocating a very huge budget and inviting over 112 although the lineup is not yet completed do you think Duelbits can be considered an industry giant in terms of marketing here in Bitcointalk I know that Stake also has a huge budget and can be considered its closest rival here in Bitcointalk but Duelbits is maximizing their capacity by including senior and Full Member

If the lineup is completed
12 Full Members x 40 = $480
15 Snr Members x 55 = $825
45 Hero Members x 65 = $2925
40 Legendary x 75 = $3000

$7230

How can Duelbits come out with a huge budget only here in Bitcointalk that other casinos cannot when Duelbits started operation on February 2020 can we also consider them the most profitable casino in the industry?

Topic: Can We Consider This Casino An Industry Giant In Marketing Here In Bitcointalk (Read 403 times)