Topic: Can you use Bitcoin to pay everything online? (Read 610 times)

It is possible to pay bills for instant services and various goods with Bitcoin but not all places accept this Bitcoin payment. If you buy a product at a place that accepts bitcoin payments, you can pay for that product in bitcoins. And if you pay attention and browse various social media, you will surely see that currently Bitcoin fees are not very high. And in the case of shopping malls and electricity bills, you can pay for all these services by paying with Bitcoin. For example, if I buy food from somewhere, if I don't have real money to pay the food bill, then of course I can use currency. But if the place where I buy the food from doesn't accept bitcoin payment then I can't pay that food bill with bitcoin payment. So if you buy a product from any place, if the store accepts bitcoin payment, then of course it is possible to pay the bill with bitcoin very easily. And nowadays most of the places accept Bitcoin payment when buying any product, because at the moment the transaction fee of Bitcoin has been reduced a lot due to which transactions can be made faster and the payment system can be made more easily.

Correct, even with a low fee and the mempool being almost empty there are limits to the minimum amount you can use to pay for something with bitcoin, at that point people should use an altcoin with way cheaper fees or cash and they will save themselves some money, however the bigger the amount you use to transact with bitcoin the cheaper it becomes to do so, it is because of this some forum members believe bitcoin will become like gold and it will only be used once people need to make a large purchase.

With Bitcoin on-chain transactions, you will need to have confirmations from miners to make your payment valid. Usually merchants will ask your payment (your on chain transactions) to have from one to three confirmations.

Considering the average block time of Bitcoin is 10 minutes. 1 to 3 confirmations will be about 10 minutes to a half of hour or even longer if you make that transaction with very low fee rate. It is more usable if you buy something online and use Bitcoin for payment but it is impractical if you want to do it offline, directly at stores. You will have to wait a little time for confirmations to complete your buying and it is inconvenience.

For tiny valued transactions, you will have alternative for Bitcoin on-chain transactions, off-chain transactions with Bitcoin Lightning Network but you will have less choices, less adoption for Lightning Network.

It is not suggested to use Bitcoin if you need to make a very tiny quick payment since you risk incurring fees that are greater than the cost of the item you are purchasing.

in my country we only can use rupiah for transaction, it was a rule in my country. but I can use bitcoin and any cryptocurrency for many website for example is to buy game item. it seems that if the company is inside my country then it must use rupiah but if the company is outside my country then it is okay to use other payment method including cryptocurrency. I usually use cryptocurrency to buy game item and I am okay with that although I know that it can considered as profitable asset because I already decide how many portion is for cryptocurrency investment.

Let's just be honest and real with each other, the example that you used in your post about bananas, Bitcoin is basically not for that, because the transaction value isn't high enough for the buyer to pay any fees for it, even if the fee isn't so high, it will still be costly if the value of the item being bought isn't high either. So, when you are buying stuff that costs maybe less than $20 or something, you shouldn't use Bitcoin for that even if the transaction is quick.

We might be able to do that in the future which I doubt because you can't pay $0.2 for an item worth $0.5, that's absurd, you better pay with cash or use something that costs you nothing for that transaction, and we know that almost every cryptocurrency has a transaction fee associated with it.

It's possible but it would be up to merchants and developers to do so. Right now capabilities are set in place and are ready for the taking should a merchant like let's say, McDonald's promote the use of bitcoin in its stores. Back then it was exceptionally slow and expensive, but thanks to layer-2 solutions like the Lightning Network things are streamlined by a long shot. The other would be the fact that it takes effort into implementing bitcoin payment systems in larger infrastructures, which means more money to spend on just implementing these features just so they can accommodate a small percentage of users, which in business-terms means "hey why don't we just shoot ourselves in the foot with this one". So while it's possible, there's no need for it as of the moment and to implement it will be a massive waste for the company.

Bitcoin should still be an alternative option for most people especially in everyday transactions - but you can adopt it as a means of payment in certain places and with certain users. I don't see anything strange about the time it takes to process transactions - it really depends on the fees you use to broadcast them.

If you are an experienced user - then it may be possible for you to pay with LN or something else like the features that centralized exchanges offer. But bottom line bitcoin is still a good alternative to paying for some cheap stuff like a bunch of bananas.

I agree, it s absurd to send a payment where the transaction fee is higher in multitude than the price of BTC.  Like in our country, 1 Banana is equivalent to $0.1, it would be a waste of money if we pay in BTC and pay for tx fee of $0.7 to $1+.


Others, like micropayment applications even cost nothing when an internal transfer is done.  So I also agree that it is not practical to pay and make a direct Bitcoin transaction on every purchase we made especially when the purchase is minuscule.

Using Bitcoin for every transaction isnt the answer, especially for little, fast purchases like buying bananas from a hawker. Instead, consider Bitcoin a multipurpose instrument for managing your finances.

Its fine if Bitcoin doesnt immediately replace fiat currency or plastic credit cards for making small purchases. Where it really excels is in situations where typical banking fees would be prohibitive, such as when making large transactions.

Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are gaining popularity, and developments in technology like second-layer solutions may eventually make cheap, quick transactions the norm. In the meantime, enjoy Bitcoin for its one-of-a-kind benefits.

The world is moving towards digital and is a gradually process, which Bitcoin is the father of all alt-coins in the cryptocurrency industries, for the reason of the delay in transaction and fee's change is normal in Bitcoin, which alt-coins like TRX, Matic, LTC, BNB Coin and other alt-coins has make it easy for us, from high gas fee and delay in transaction, which is a matter of time country we accept Bitcoin as a means of payment and the few coin's can easily solve the problem.

It's possible since Bitcoin is a digital currency where it do a lot of transactions online. But only if it's already adopted by most of the people, in the situation right now there's still a lot of people doesn't trust Bitcoin and consider it as a scam so they don't acknowledged it to use for everyday life. Still there's a lot of businesses that are open to Bitcoin as they accept payments with the use of crypto. For sure the seller or the owner have ideas and background about crypto industry or blockchain technology to accept bitcoin as payment. So far all I know if people would use it as payment they would still need to convert it to known digital transactions such as Paypal and in my country which is called Gcash so people can use it cause as I said some are not yet aware of Bitcoin existence.

Yes we can't use Bitcoin in all businesses, but we might use it some day, op haven't you heard about the lighting network? You can also do more reading on this thread to understand some part of the lighting network and how it been used.

The lighting network is as fast as fiat network, there was a time when transactions were been delayed because of network issues people was using it to do transactions, talking about the banana seller a banana seller in that aspect that's not possible because the seller might have not heard about Bitcoin before not to talk about using it for her business, not only banana sellers do go through this but other road side business business owners have same issues of not knowing how to use Bitcoin or knows about it. using Bitcoin for transactions in road side businesses can not be possible for now but it can be possible with time

actually you can pay for various products or services online using bitcoin, now there are enough merchants that support payments using bitcoin. however, due to the adoption of bitcoin which is restricted by the government and sometimes the gas fee from bitcoin transactions can increase sharply and also the low education of merchants about bitcoin, this has made bitcoin not be adopted by many merchants globally.

If only merchants/individuals had good education about bitcoins and the government didn't restrict them from accepting bitcoins, maybe now people could pay for various products and services online using their bitcoins. But unfortunately this is not possible for now, because the number of merchants/individuals who accept bitcoins for their products or services is limited. Maybe in the future you can pay for everything with bitcoin, if there are many adopters of bitcoin globally.

There's not much to do with crypto in my country. Just being a commodity makes me happy. Right now this rule issue may be what restricts the movement of crypto. It seems that outside my country there are indeed many who open payments with crypto. Even my friend has bought a hard wallet with crypto. Nowadays it is easier for me to use conventional money for transactions. The problem is also the same, because transaction fees are uncertain and tend to be expensive.

You can use third party solutions to get rid of any restrictions that might be coming your way while using the Bitcoin. While most of the people are trying to hold the bitcoin to profit from it there are still many who wants to do real transactions on daily basis in the form of Bitcoin. We have seen merchants growing these days with Bitcoin Payment Accepted here tags in their stores. Most of the developed countries are hosting BTM everywhere thus fulfilling the needs of user like you and me.

Apart from this you can always option out for services where you can trade your Bitcoin for the gift cards. These could be for your best vendors out there like shopping sites, restaurants or may be wallets. You can safely buy such cards on paxful, bitrefill and coincola. Make sure to use the trusted ones.

As long as the store or merchant accept Bitcoin, then you can pay everything in there using Bitcoin. The fee you need to pay and need a time to wait for confirmation is depend on you, whether you comfortable or not. I think it's better if you use fiat or debit/credit card when you're want to pay in physical store and use Bitcoin in online marketplace because it should be cheaper than use mobile banking or digital fiat.

What should stops me if am a bitcoiner and i wanted to make online shoppings and discover alot of the online shopping malls accept bitcoin for making payments, what else could i need than to embrace this opportunity to buy all items needed and make my payment through their payment channel with bitcoin, this will be an added bonus for me if am a privacy minded customer who will always want to appear anonymous in dealing with the public while making transactions or any other things that involves money or personal information.

I disagree with the part I bolded, bitcoin's volatility also contributes to its inability to become a currency.  of course, governments won't accept a decentralized asset as currency, but bitcoin's volatility will only make people see it as an investment rather than using it as a currency.  like what you are saying, you are expecting an uptrend to make a profit, you do not intend to use it as a currency.  So volatility is one of the barriers for bitcoin to become a currency.

This is the motive behind bitcoin but it is misunderstood by many. Bitcoin is a digital investment (thou very risky). Although you can do whatever you like with your bitcoin such as trading it, staking or using it to pay for goods and services and as well as storing it for future purposes. It's not worrisome if you can not use it to pay for everything because that's not what it is meant for. The bitter truth is that the expectations to see bitcoin overtake fiat is far from coming to reality for now.

If you publish a currency in the market will everyone accept it, never. If you can convince all the people of the world that your coin has value then your coin is successful. As everyone knows about fiat currencies, they are issued by government agencies. The Treasury decides how much money to print. Unlike them, Bitcoins are not issued by any country in the world. They owe their presence to computer computing as well as encryption operations. Not all countries accept Bitcoin. If you can gain trust in Bitcoin among all people in the world, it will become a main currency. Only then will Bitcoin transactions at all levels be beneficial.

Although bitcoin is still not popular in being used as a payment method, I doubt that when it becomes a full-fledged payment method, will people use it? I mean, everyone knows the value of bitcoin will increase over time, and most of us want to hold or use bitcoin as a speculative tool. Very few people want to use or spend their bitcoin, so even if it becomes a payment method, I don't think people will use it.

People always make excuses that it's not legal yet so they can't use it to pay. But the main reason is that no one wants to squander a valuable asset, or frankly, we care more about bitcoin's profits than anything else it brings.

Lightning Network is good for small transaction as it has very tiny transaction fee. You can make transactions that value in satoshi, small and it will be proceeded quickly. The barrier for using Lightning Network is its adoption is not high, smaller than Bitcoin adoption for on chain transactions, so you will have less choices if you choose Lightning Network. Less stores, merchants accept Lightning Network and your choices will be smaller.

We will have to prepare ourselves with different payment options: Bitcoin on chain, Lightning Network, cash, bank transfer, credit/ debit card.

your opinion is the most accurate, it is still too early to make daily purchases with bitcoin, there is still a long way to go so that this currency can be seen more widely, the option of making a change to Fiat and in this way if canceling the products is much better. However, when there is a possibility that people can use this asset more freely, they should not make the choice to cancel directly in bitcoin, since by analyzing the comments of each one of you a little, I realized something important, and it is that the majority thought that making payments in bitcoin would be a bit complicated due to the volatility of the market, and this is true, since in such a case that a value of any product is given to be paid in BTC and suddenly the value of  this increases, we would be losing directly... so I came to the conclusion that this currency should not be monopolized for anything, but for specific purposes that favor us instead of harming us.

Small transaction, no at this moment because of the high gas fees like you said. Lightning Network is the best solution for it so far, but not many are integrating, or using it currently.

Bitcoin can be used to pay everything online as long as both sides agree to it. The only question is who will pay for the fees especially if the amount of things that you're buying isn't that huge compare to the possible fees that you might be paying when using Bitcoin to pay. There are many online stores, and merchants who are accepting Bitcoin as an alternative payment, but to use it to buy things that has a small value is something that Bitcoin holders wouldn't want to do.

We are still not in the era where Bitcoin can be used as a payment option for everything and that includes your bananas.
Even popular stablecoins are not that popular yet to be a payment option even at known stores that accept a broad range of cards and digital money.

I have not tried using my Bitcoin yet as means of paying something because there's just no store that does it. But I do believe somewhere in the future it will happen. Our world, country, or government is just not ready yet for this new type of technology. Banks seem to be also doing a good job at preventing it to happen because now they are also trying to create their own 1:1 digital coins to give a solution to this problem.

Back to your purchase, payments in Bitcoin cannot be reversed. So, I think showing the merchant that you made the transaction should suffice. If it's just a $1 payment then I don't think anyone will cheat especially for bananas.

Yes, reversing a bank transaction is not easy or even impossible if we don't have any concrete proof. There are a lot of wrong account transfers happening to people I know, and they can't get their money back because the bank requires too much proof, and it will take a lot of our time. Unless it is a large amount we should pursue it to the end, but if it is a small amount then we should forget about it.

This is not true, reversing a bank transaction is not easy, you need to contact a bank and ask them to do so, and they will review your case manually. You only have a good chance of reversing a transaction if your money got stolen and you reacted swiftly. But banks generally rely of layers of verification to prevent that from happening.

Everything in life has got advantages and disadvantages or should I say, limitations. Having yo think of bitcoinbor cryptocurrency as an all perfect system would be wrong because, it’s none the less another creation and has got to have some down sides to it. It’s no wonder that some of its down sides plays out in terms of instant payment where you don’t get your coins confirmed when you want it without paying a high fee, you can’t seem to process a transaction without a device and your always going to need an internet connection. It’s just the way it works and we’ve have to live with that.

It’s a good thing the bitcoin revolution isn’t here to replace local fiat currency because, fiat does help and even still, it’s not suitable for transfers to hawkers on the streets. How many would be willing or even have such payment media readily in place for petty sales.

Or integrate a third-party application that instantly convert Bitcoin to fiat in order for the merchant to avoid the effect of Bitcoin volatility.  Among these limitations, the government regulation is still the biggest problem of Bitcoin since these applications that process Bitcoin payment needs to have a license from central banks in order for their application to be legitimate and their operation to be legal.


I am still baffled if this kind of Bitcoin as an asset approach is beneficial for the Bitcoin ecosystem.  We all know that for a technology to prosper it needs to have a use case and be integrated and use by the masses.  Looking at Bitcoin as an asset and hodling it seems counterintuitive.

There are a lot of limitations to Bitcoin's scalability ranging from general acceptability or network limitations, in the sense that not all merchants accept Bitcoin and those that did accept Bitcoin must have to run their payment system using layer 2 wallets and networks such as the bitcoin lightning network.
Bitcoin has gone through a lot of processes that most of its holders have placed a high value on Bitcoin as an asset rather than as a currency, and they will rather use paper money to oay fo goods and services and hold their Bitcoin.

Compared to the past days now we were able to see lot of services having direct acceptance of bitcoin. This is happening as a result of more people showing interest on cryptocurrency as investment and giving try to buy something with bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies.

When we use fiat converted from bitcoin, it gets added to the fiat payment. Offline services with bitcoin acceptance is limited and got accumulated in specific countries. More online services now have bitcoin acceptance, however those are just for namesake in most cases.

Let me open your eyes to a simple fact, and that's that, if BTC has gotten to the stage where it is accepted for every online transactions, then it would have become a legal tender or means of exchange for goods and services in your region or country of residence. Even if it not, right now, it hasn't gotten to that stage.
With SEC regulators battle with exchanges and most country government trying to enforce CBDC so as to truncate BTC thriving in the society, it is even like a stroke of luck to find a merchandise or service that can be bought with btc, mostly online.

Telsa tried using BTC for purchase of its electric cars when it firstly launched the technology, and well, we know the battles they had to put up with and their stand right now.

This example simply implies that we cannot use Bitcoin to pay everything directly.  If your question @OP is about a direct transaction between the seller and the buyer, I would say that it is a no since not all online stores accept Bitcoin as mode of payment.

Since Bitcoin has value, just like what @Cryptovator stated, we can use Bitcoin to pay for the purchase online if we convert it first to fiat and then pay the store via different kinds of fiat payment system.  In short, Bitcoin can be used to indirectly pay everything sellable online through conversion but can't be used to pay everything sellable online in direct transactions.

i believe that's the only option right now. you need to convert your crypto to your fiat via p2p services or other local exchanges, before going out and buy some items from small shops or stores. don't expect that every store will accept btc because they are not. it will take time before these merchants will integrate btc in their payment method. and even much longer for small stalls or hawkers. usually, they need up front payment because waiting is not their option.

Using Bitcoin directly may not be possible in all the places I need, including my country. However, I can still use it indirectly by selling it peer-to-peer and instantly converting it to fiat, especially through mobile financial services. While Bitcoin cannot replace fiat currency right away, the increasing availability of peer-to-peer services makes it convenient to use almost instantly. Don't expect use Bitcoin like fiat currency. It won't happen so quickly.

The answer is NO, because you can't buy everything online. The reason for that is that some people or a group of people doesn't support Bitcoin payment method. If your question is, can I buy something online with BTC then the answer would be yes which is the opposite of the answer of your question and that is, some shops accept BTC as payment or supported Bitcoin payment method. It is like a casino where you can gamble on their platform by depositing fiat money or deposit any cryptocurrency they accept.

Unfortunately no, bitcoin cannot be use to pay for everything. It is kind of ideal though. However, not every merchant accepts bitcoin as a means for payment. Despite the rise of bitcoin users and enjoyers it is still not as widely use and acceptable as other mobile payment transaction and bank transfer and payment.

It is true that not everything we can see online, or not every merchandise online can be paid in Bitcoin.  In order to pay with Bitcoin it should meet some requirement.  First, the merchant must accept Bitcoin, second the person have Bitcoin to spend.  If these two requirement is met then paying in Bitcoin is possible.  Sadly not all merchants are ready to accept Bitcoin, it is not about the delay or whatsoever but the position of the merchant in accepting Bitcoin as payment as indication whether we can pay in Bitcoin or not.

While you obviously can’t pay for everything online using Bitcoin, and to be honest the amount of things you can buy online with Bitcoin has declined severely over the last decade, you can be sure that there are even less things you can buy with the garbage layer 2 “solution” that is pretty much only used in third world countries that have been bamboozled into thinking it’s a good idea.

There are people that do many of there transactions using Bitcoin although in a region where Bitcoin is legal and acceptable. There are some regions that have a strict use of Bitcoin or where Bitcoin are illegal to trade. This region will make it difficult for Bitcoin users or investors to use there Bitcoin to buy and trade it online.

The Market is still ranging and that does not halt the use of Bitcoin as a currency. Even though the price is not steady, we can still trade out coins and earn from then depending on what we are looking for or what we want to do with it. There is still time for the market to set a bull trend for significant gain.

If you can’t use bitcoin to pay banana hawker, then you use your fiat currency, nobody have said that bitcoin will be used for every transaction, bitcoin was created to serve as alternative currency, so in a place where you think you can’t use your bitcoin to pay, then you make use of your fiat currency, and if you think you can pay with your bitcoin, then you make your transaction with it.

If am buying banana from a hawker, I won’t even try to make transfer from my bank account, sometimes their is always congestion in bank server which might end up delaying the transaction, sometimes it might even take hours before the transaction will be successful. So do you expect me to stay on the road waiting for the banana seller to receive alert? If am buying banana, then I will rather pay with cash than paying with bitcoin or bank transfer.

To avoid unnecessary delay, I will just pay with my cash and move, I won’t have to delay myself because if the banana seller those not receive the bitcoin or those not receive alert, then he won’t be releasing the banana for me, so the best option is just to pay with cash.

Currently, various products and services are available through Bitcoin. However, its scope will expand further in the future if every country legalizes Bitcoin. Even in countries where there is no legalization, Bitcoin transactions are being accepted in various business establishments, although it cannot be given an official form, but if it is legalized, it will spread quickly. Bitcoin has now become a very popular medium for various online-based products and services. Everyone in El Salvador can now freely trade bitcoins which is not available anywhere else in the world. But people will be interested where they feel comfortable. If you imagine that direction, all kinds of goods and services will be available through Bitcoin in the future.

Yes you can use Bitcoin to pay everything online unless the other party is accepting Bitcoin and the medium you both parties are using must be matched to make a fast and less expensive transactions. For example, if you are using any centralized exchange then the other party means the hawker must also have the centralized exchange, Let's say if you have Kraken and the owner also have Kraken Exchange.

Then you both could send Funds to each other using mail or ID without any expenses and the transaction will be fast. Secondly, you guys could prefer Lighting network to make fast transaction, if you don't want your transaction to be stuck in the network. Another way is to increase the transaction fee manually to increase the processing priority of your transaction.

I observed that the folks on Twitter are using LN for payments. LN transactions are super speedy! I tried it once, and boy, it was as fast as using a QR Code linked to a local banking service.

But, honestly, I haven't delved deeper into it. Is this LN network a good idea to uphold the fundamental principles of Bitcoin?
Should all Bitcoin users worldwide embrace LN for everyone to conveniently use Bitcoin as a payment tool?

When talking about transactions, legal or other things about the goodness of bitcoin we always point to El Salvador because they were the first country to legalize bitcoin, of course bitcoin can be used like fiat there and can be used as a means of any transaction.
El Salvador will be an example in the future that bitcoin can be used as an alternative means of transaction which I think fiat and bitcoin will go hand in hand without eliminating them. Because it's not easy and it definitely takes a very long time, and it's not certain that we're still around.

Perhaps El Salvador is an example of the fact that bitcoin, even after its adoption as a means of payment at the state level, will not become widely used among the population, but this choice should still be. I think that all options should be available, both cash and bitcoin, and let everyone decide for himself what is more convenient for him, where are smaller feeses. In some cases, it is really more convenient to pay in cash, let this method is also present.

Even in El Salvador, most of their population do not use BTC and they don't even understand how to use it, they simply just downloaded the Chivo centralized wallet, got the $30 bonus for the download and that was it for most of them and BTC.

I don't know why op has asked this question, but they don't have to try and pay for everything they buy with BTC, it is a second choice currency and in most situations you will use cash or your debit card for payments, there are even somethings that you can't pay for with your debit card and it has to be cash or nothing. By the way, if you want to spend your BTC's, look for merchants that accept BTC and spend it there.

There is nothing to rush about, the numbers of online stores that are now accepting crypto payment are growing in numbers, almost all big VPN companies now accepts Bitcoin, even the new VPN companies like WhoerNet is now accepting crypto payment, most people living in the UK are using electroneum platform to make payment, it works for those that are living outside the UK, you can use crypto to pay for some Bills and also subscribe to Netflix or buy recharge cards and data, it's only a matter of time, very soon we will have more people in Bitcoin than the past years and this will trigger crypto as means of payment for many businesses.

What?


https://twitter.com/lipa_btc/status/1659482757146324994

Bitcoin at the moment is not ready to be used as a currency or use for payment in my opinion, I mean first of all bitcoin was not accepted in a lot of stores nationwide, so there's no way you could pay for everything online or not just using bitcoin, Compared to the past years there are a lot more stores where Bitcoin is already accepted I remember I did create a topic related to small businesses that are already accepting bitcoin and there are only a few, But today there are already a lot of them and Bitcoin is already recognized as well but a lot of companies. But it wasn't just the issue since bitcoin, in my opinion, is not suitable for business, just because of the volatile market price, if you're going to use bitcoin as a payment on your business your just gonna need huge cash for cash flow because if someone pays bitcoin you cant use that amount anymore because it will automatically be invested on bitcoin you cant just sell it anytime because prices could go down easily or vise versa.

For me Bitcoin is just suitable for investment at the moment, but for sure we are going to see a lot of changes on Bitcoin in the future and maybe it will be suitable as a currency that we could use as well on every transactions.

None of these things is as revolutionary as Bitcoin is and none of them goes against the current system and has so many enemies as Bitcoin has. Given all that, I don't think Bitcoin surprised anyone's (including Satoshi) wildest expectations.

That's right because right now what we have to be happy about is the progress towards those kinds of future because right now we are happy to see the other online store maybe not all are starting to accept bitcoins as means of payment for their products and also services and there will come a time when you can also buy essentials in small stores using bitcoins because finally they know the important of having it and they choose to have it instead of having those fiats that are always losing its value whenever inflation hits them hard.

Are you sure about 2-3 minutes? Looks like 2-3 seconds.

https://twitter.com/lipa_btc/status/1683405170582114304

It is a two-way thing, For those using Bitcoin as currency like El Salvador does, the volatility goes in two ways if Bitcoin rises it means more purchasing power while if it falls it means less purchasing power, however, I don't see more pain for someone using it as currency differently than from someone who owns it for investment’s sake. All things being equal.

Bitcoin is digital money, so you can buy digital bananas with it.

For bitcoin transactions within 2-3 minutes you will not overpay x2 the cost of your bananas. The problem with bitcoin is not that no one will pay in bitcoin for goods, but that at the moment there are few sellers of goods (like your bananas) and services willing to accept btc as payment.

I have doubts at all that there will ever come a time when you can buy a cup of coffee with the help of bitcoin. I’ll voice an already hackneyed phrase, it’s like buying a cup of coffee for a bar of gold. Bitcoin has already become disproportionately big that it is unlikely to be used for purchases of small goods. Moreover, btc has been transformed into an investment tool from digital money. This is neither good nor bad, but it just happened and you need to accept it, and not be indignant.

I don't know your definition of a hawker but I  haven't seen that many in intersections carrying a PoS either, so why do we compare banks and credit cards in this situation with Bitcoin?


Bun him!!!  


It's no longer the 20 century anymore, Uber is just as old as Bitcoin, Nokia was selling the 5320 in the hundreds of millions,  Stripe didn't exist, and neither was Instagram which I really don't think was that much of a pace forward at all. Things change fast these days, how many were using mobile banking in 2009? We're at 3 billion now!

Besides, we will never be able to "implement" fast bitcoin transaction, and it will take a decade before everyone moves to LN, not because they don't want but because it would be technically impossible to!


Block 800805 yesterday evening was late 48 minutes, enough for my next block tx fee to next 6 blocks, and we're talking about weekend!

How can you buy everything with bitcoin when not many places accept it as their payment method?  if you are not from el salvador then you will have a lot of trouble using bitcoin instead of fiat for your life. but I agree with you, I also only consider an investment asset rather than a currency. For a highly volatile asset, using it as a currency will not bring any benefit but only add inconvenience.  whereas volatility is great for speculation, why don't we take full advantage of it?

Or coffee 

https://twitter.com/SwissBitcoinPay/status/1651933197368799234

Using bitcoin as a means of payment depends on the situation and conditions.
If you can still use fiat, why should you pay using bitcoin?
Come on, don't make things difficult for yourself. Bitcoin can be an alternative means of payment solutions but if you can still use fiat as usual, it's better for you to save your bitcoins to sell and make a profit.
But it's up to you if you still want to use bitcoins, but I wouldn't want to waste my bitcoins just to pay for bananas

As long as the service provider/merchant or sinply both parties are okay with it and as long as there are no restrictions then yes. However, this is rare even at the present. Only few merchants and service providers are accepting cryptocurrency as a mode of payment for their own reason. What can we do about it? Nothing but wait for things to be accepted by more people. Using or adopting to this technology is driven by initiative. And since right now there are still present issues with regards to this industry, then waiting is the only thing we could do. But a thing to show progress is some banks considering  to do so. There'll be a lot of procedures but atleast we would be going there someday.

Seems OP not understand yet about Bitcoin transaction, you can pay as lightening network and payment process instant without any delay or get option with sending Bitcoin assets trough the same exchange account each other and less fees with transaction process instant. But its not worth sending bitcoin trough different kinds wallet and take process two block confirmation beside have to pay higher fees transaction. I am not stressing have been legal currency transaction payment and use for paying good and service due Bitcoin still available as investment assets. Can earn beneficial trough bitcoin as trading assets and earn profit when price up is seems enough without take care when bitcoin will adopt as legal currency transaction payment.

OP, currently, Bitcoin has not been accepted to be used as legal tender all over the world, and that's the reason why the banana seller cannot yet accept it. Although they can if they want, depending on whether Bitcoin is not banned in that country, they, as the trader, would have a possible solution that they could devise that would suit them well if they wanted to start accepting Bitcoin for their service. For every Bitcoin transaction, after one network confirmation, you are sure that you will definitely get the transaction confirmed; you must not have to delay your customers for all confirmations to be completed. Also, for one to accept Bitcoin in their business, they will have to consider the volatility of Bitcoin and the transaction fee, which sometimes is $1. Some customers might not want to spend that fee just to buy a banana for $5 or more, unless they are buying something in large quantity, like something in the range of $50 to $200.

Waiting time is long and 10 minutes, the average block time is long but sometimes we will get a first confirmation within a few seconds, one or few minutes less than 10 but it is when we are very lucky.

Waiting 10 minutes even when we use high fee rate to buy something at groceries is painful.

I agree that Bitcoin transaction fee is expensive with many people even when Bitcoin mempools are normal, not too overloaded. When it is overloaded, congested, transaction fee will be very expensive and we can not compare Bitcoin blockchain with Ethereum blockchain and say it gives better transaction fee. It is better than Ethereum but nothing to be proud about it.

To have more adoption, Bitcoin transaction fee should be cheaper.

Voila! You are right! Bitcoin is not capable of handling micro transactions and it is expensive to spend. Which makes Bitcoin a very bad currency system. It's more of an asset class than a currency system. It can not compete with the current payment solutions we have in the market. Bitcoin can not compete to become a currency system. It's an investment asset.

Some bitcoin puritans will still argue. But that won't change the truth!

USD/BTC -50% per year.

USD/GBP -30% per year. GBP not a currency? Lol

Although according to Satoshi's concept, bitcoin is a digital currency, a peer-to-peer payment method. But honestly, with volatility, it's not considered a currency, it's regarded as an asset and more of an investment. So using it for daily payments is not suitable, especially for small payments like the banana purchase you are referring to. I really don't want to pay extra transaction fees and wait time for the transaction to complete, whereas fiat would do that much better. But when it comes to international payments or cross-border transactions, bitcoin will definitely outperform fiat.

Technically you could pay in Bitcoin or USD, but the seller could exchange their goods or services with EUR or CHF. They call it currency conversion 

https://twitter.com/SwissBitcoinPay/status/1651933197368799234

Technically, yes you can pay for everything online as long as the seller specifically wants to exchange their goods or services with bitcoin but practically speaking, it's inconvenient and not a smart idea because bitcoin grows everyday, the price ebbs and flow so you might be overpaying for the stuff that you've bought, just remembering the story of Laszlo Hanyec buying a pizza for 10,000 bitcoins is enough to make you think about spending your bitcoin to buy stuff that you might not like when it arrives. There are obviously exceptions to the rules though, some people like those in the Marketplace are okay with that fact so then again, if you don't mind that there's a possibility you're overpaying for something because the price fluctuates, you go on ahead.

You can set a fee that will most likely ensure that your transaction will be in the next block, but that can still take up to 10 minutes to get confirmed, and even waiting for, like, 5 minutes at the counter when paying for groceries is such a long time. And you're right that the cost of the transaction is also likely to be significant, compared to the small amount a person is spending. I think a solution to that is centralized services that rely on custodial wallets, or just using Bitcoin only for big purchases. Both have their downsides, of course, and point at limitation of BTC on-chain transactions.

Try Bitcoin LN in Germany

https://twitter.com/lipa_btc/status/1683713610684710912

If you know the ways then yes, through Bitcoins you can buy anything and everything. But if you ask me then I won’t treat Bitcoins as a currency. Rather Bitcoins are so valuable that, I will try to gather or acquire as many Bitcoins as I can. So yes if you are also thinking of spending the coins, then I would suggest you to not do it so. Bitcoins have lot of capabilities, so if you hold for long term, then definitely you will make tons of profits from it.

As of today, there are no problems with paying for bananas with Bitcoin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/rycq79/2_bananas_591_sats_025_r4_and_a_lightning_network/

Bitcoin transaction is so slow, how to get over it? spend more Bitcoin for the transaction fee! it's too much especially I only buy a banana, don't use Bitcoin! instead use fiat where you said there's no fee and it's delivered fast only for 2-3 minutes. No one force you to pay with Bitcoin when you don't like it.

You: I'm rich and I live in Germany, I want to travel to Italy. What's the most convenient way?
Me: You can go using an airplane, it only take 1 hour and 50 minutes.
You: Nah, I think the best way is walk using my own feet, but I'm worried if I don't have enough power, I don't want to waste my times etc keep complaining and forcing yourself to use your feet.

Your question is if one can pay use Bitcoin to pay for everything online but then your analogy of paying for a banana on the go doesn't doesn't fit into the question.

Bitcoin is yet to have a 90% adoption rate so not everyone owns or accepts Bitcoin for online payment just yet. And even when it happens in the future not everyone would because some Mom &Pop stores will still be either stuck in the past and refuse to add a new payment option or outright don't want Bitcoin because they don't understand it.

It's too early to make all purchases with Bitcoin yet. In the example you gave, there may be some minor issues to perform this trade as well. But for faster transactions, layer-2s emerged. After a while, all transactions can be with Bitcoin. I don't know exactly when. Bitcoin is a value that is evolving and being embraced by everyone. So of course it is normal to encounter some problems. But I am sure it will overcome these problems.

Nowadays, in order to be able to pay with Bitcoin, the seller must receive payment in Bitcoin. In the example you gave, this is not the case. Bitcoin can be used to pay for something more valuable.

As time goes on, the usage area of Bitcoin will become more widespread. Other currencies will not disappear, however. You can always use your local currency for this type of purchase.

It is true that paying with bitcoin is often not the most convenient thing to do, at least not for now. Keep in mind that Bitcoin was created only 14 years ago which is a very short amount of time in the grand scheme of things so it will take some time to properly implement low cast and fast bitcoin transfers.

I simply don't stress mytself too much about situtaion where bitcoin is not the most convenient and instead focos on those where I can sp[end my bitcoin easily, like for examplt paying for IPTV, VPN, gambling etc.

The point Bitcoin’s trying to make by existing isn’t that it’s gonna be better than the banks. There’s always going to be a difference between banks and Bitcoin due to Bitcoin lacking trust and centralization. Banks will always help you recover your card or replace it, something Bitcoin won’t. Transactions can be “instant” with banks when you transfer to the same bank or when you pay through card, but the latter option only seems like an instant payment - card payments take days before they’re actually confirmed.

Banks can freeze your money though, Bitcoin can’t. Banks can close, Bitcoin can’t! If you really wanted to pay for everything, the best option is either withdrawing cash from ATMs or getting yourself a Bitcoin debit card you can fill with BTC and pay at the stores with. Otherwise, you’re obviously stuck with the businesses accepting to operate with BTC.

Ther are now many merchants who accept btc payments online through third party apps like they get fiat as platform charges fees only so you can find lot but word everything doesn't fit in this matter.There are still many who don't accept and rely on traditional methods only.

The LN fees is negligible as you can make multiple transactions without even bothering about fees as only the main transactions are pooped up to the blockchain so it works better for many people as it's really helpful.

The smart choice would be to withdraw some cash from a nearby ATM and pay him, or just look for other vendors that accept Bitcoin if you really wanted to use your BTC to get some bananas. I don't think it is a big deal, at the end of the day you can't pay with crypto if the stores don't accept them.

Personally, I never use my BTC for daily necessities since I don't think it is worth the cost. But BTC is my go-to choice for international payments. I use BTC to pay for VPN, gaming top-ups, and stuff like that regularly. It is cheaper, faster, and allows me to decrease my personal data exposure compared to using a credit card or something similar. Would I like to pay for everything with BTC? Maybe in the future, but for now I see no reason to use my Bitcoin to buy a coffee.

Bitcoin Lightning Network fees ~1000x less than Visa and Mastercard

I seriously agree that using bitcoin to pay for daily transactions which can be done with local fiat currency or paper money looks like me miss using my valuable asset (bitcoin). Rather bitcoin is actually advised to be used for transaction only if it is a cross boarder transaction, because cross boarder transactions are actually stressful going through the banking hassles. If we even compare it to bitcoin transaction fee except maybe the transaction fee is extremely high or mempool is congested, bitcoin payment is easier when use for cross border transaction.

bitcoin transfer is also instant. just check blockchain and you see your payment has been broadcasted immediately.
confirmation are "slow" requires as a median 10 minutes but once confirmed is confirmed.
With classic bank transfer payment could be always reversed (even 30 days later). ok maybe for a banana this will not happens but it must be taking in account.
In any case make a replace-by-fee transaction for paying a "cheap" object is useless. I mean you will pay 1 dollar + 0,10 cent of fee, I don't think it's a viable solution double spend this amount and add bigger fee...

Generally speaking nowadays you can pay everything with btc just because there are several method to instant cashout your coins if are not accepting directly.

Kind of but you do not have the right approach on the subjet. Bitcoin was created as a currency and can be used as such, although today it is better as an investment vehicle than as a currency.

Why are you going to spend something that appreciates enormously. Wouldn't it be better to keep it or spend little? Today it makes no sense to use Bitcoin to buy bread, for that better to use fiat, shitcoins or CBDCs.

Why would you be paying a banana seller with Bitcoin, when you can just give them cash and be on your way? Let's say you're on a public transport, and you're not the only one on-board, you're not going to start wasting other people's time buying banana and pulling out your phone to start asking for seller's address, and in worst case scenario, there happens to be a slow network issue, you would end up wasting everyone's time, when you could have just pull out cash and hand it over to the seller, easy.

There is nothing that cannot be purchased using bitcoin; however, if you want to use bitcoin to purchase things in an instance where the fee alone may be greater than what you initially want to purchase, you can make a provision for a centralized means of payment. That's to say, since you are so concerned about how that could be made possible, You can develop something that you can promote within your locality that those who deal with small businesses and those buying from small business dealers can use as a means of transacting bitcoin off-chain. At the end of every day or week, when they (business owners) have gathered enough to cover the fee and profit, they can withdraw it back to their personal wallet or, better yet, convert it back to fiat, where they can use the money to buy goods for their next market.

No. Because I live in a country that does not allow crypto as a means of paying for goods and services.
In other countries there may be people who pay for something in transactions using bitcoin as a means of payment, but I am not interested in using bitcoin in transactions to buy goods and services both offline and online. I only use Bitcoin as an investment asset. If I'm on vacation to a country that allows transactions with bitcoins, maybe I'm more interested in paying using a cryptocurrency other than bitcoin.
Bitcoins are very valuable to me for me to spend in paying for something.

A bigger value of the trade you are making, a more Bitcoin on-chain confirmations for that transaction should be seen. If I am trading with only $100, I can take risk if the person I am trading with is a person I know, and I don't wait for 1 confirmation. If it is a person I don't know, I will wait for 1 confirmation minimally.

If I have a trade like $1000 or $10,000, I am sure I will wait 3 or 6 confirmations. Because, it is a big capital with me and 3 or 6 confirmations will need like 30 minutes to 1 hour or a little bit longer.

How many Bitcoin confirmations is enough?

Paying things with paper money does not cost on-chain transaction fee.

Storing bitcoin and use it for payment is risky. If I buy my bitcoin when 1 BTC values at $60,000 and 1 year later, I need to use it to pay my purchase when it values at $30,000, it is painful. So investment must be different with what I need for payment, purchase, expense.

I understand your point. While there are ways to make Bitcoin transactions faster I still don't believe it's suitable for all types of purchases. Even though Bitcoin is a digital currency it does have limitations, and we shouldn't expect it to work for everything. If you want to buy something from someone using Bitcoin the first thing to consider is whether they accept that payment method. Not all online platforms have the option to pay with Bitcoin so it's essential to be prepared to use your local currency. When dealing with street vendors or hawkers it's always a good idea to carry cash if you tend to buy things on the go and want to avoid any payment delays or complications.


I won't quite agree with you here mate. If we all take it from your perspective, then no one will ever think of payment using Bitcoin. Yes Bitcoin will always appreciate but you only paid for what you bought at that instant using the current price at that time. So what ever the amount of Bitcoin you've paid with appreciates to shouldn't be your concern as it is one of the features of Bitcoin.

There are options that you can use if you want to pay in bitcoins in daily transactions, or if you want to buy something valuable, waiting for several minutes will not cost you anything. For example, When you want to buy a property, waiting for several minutes will not cost you anything.
The big question remains, will you use Bitcoin to pay for everyday things when you have paper money? The majority will not use it, even if the fees are low and the confirmations are immediate, but because the value of bitcoin may increase and the value of paper money may decrease, and therefore you will spend paper money because it is less valuable to you than bitcoin, which is money and investment, which may be one of the last options when you spend.

You can not do everything with Bitcoin everywhere. Different local locations will have different acceptance for Bitcoin and you must have other reserves like cash, fiat in your bank account, e-money applications to pay your expenses.

Bitcoin on-chain transactions need waiting time for confirmations, at least 1 confirmation to make it valid. So it will take in seconds to 10 minutes or longer to get a first confirmation. It is not instantly in most transactions. If you need faster transaction, you must use Lightning Network but the Lightning Network adoption is less than Bitcoin on-chain.

You need your smartphone running to make payment so if your smartphone battery is dead, need to charge, you can not make a payment. Having cash in your pocket is never a bad choice.

All the online payment systems that have bitcoin transaction system can be transacted through bitcoin in all payment systems but most of the payment systems do not have the facility of bitcoin that is why it is not possible to transact through bitcoin online even if you want to. In some cases, even if there is a Bitcoin payment system, investors may not pay with Bitcoin because the price of Bitcoin is likely to increase significantly in the future. Now bitcoin is worth $30K If you pay $1K right now and after a few months if the price of bitcoin is $60K, then you will see that you paid an additional $1K for that payment, many people will not pay with bitcoin.

Bitcoin was created to give us financial freedom, not mainly for the exchange of goods and services, as you said.

Yes, Bitcoin is a digital currency, which I think is good for investment. You can buy Bitcoin and hold it for a long time instead of taking your money to the bank to save. If you invest in Bitcoin in your personal wallet, you are your own bank and will be in control of your money, not banks again, and you can have some profits if the price of Bitcoin goes up, unlike saving in your bank, where the bank will have charges removed from your money instead of adding to it since they do use the money.

Then why use Bitcoin to buy everything when you have Fiat currency that is generally acceptable for both small and large businesses?

As your are new to crypto world let me tell you. Transactions are not slow all the time but only when the network is highly congested (high traffic). But there are many possible solutions to that too. For example you could use lightning network to send BTC instantly or if your transaction stuck you could increase the fee you are paying (yes you can do that we call it RBF where even during the transaction being processed we could increase the transaction fee) why we would do that? To increase the priority of our transaction to be processed earlier.

Other than such options, you might want to get benefit from many third party platforms. I came to know about 2 in my mind which is the new Mixin wallet messenger (i am not trying to advertise it) and other is vultor.io (this is not yet released). You could use a NFC card provided by Vultor.io and could use it to scan on the app of Vultor (that app will be on the merchant side) means you would instantly send BTC.

And in mixin messenger wallet, your hawker must have one so that you could send free of cost BTC from one mixin messenger wallet to another (receiver).

Note* i know these projects are new but i recently came to know about them and liked the motive but will not advice you to follow this path of trusting on third party platform like the two i aforementioned. Because there must be many great platforms in the market that must have great trust level.

Other than third party option, if you are using some CEXs like Binance and the Hawker is also using Binance then you could directly send him BTC over Binance pay id for free of cost and in no time also. This is not limited to only Binance because many other exchanges also provide such options.

Bitcoin to buy bananas from a hawker? What do you expect the hawker to use the Bitcoin for? And how much are you paying for the bananas? In my city I can buy a bunch of bananas for 0.45$ and imagine I want to pay using Bitcoin, lets pretend that the hawker can accord Bitcoin as payment solution, which means I will use like 0.50$ to send Bitcoin to the hawker's Bitcoin address, it makes no sense.

There Are a few things that I have used Bitcoin to pay for but they are more valuable than buying Bananas, if what you are buying is valuable, and fits the transaction fee, also if the seller accepts Bitcoin as payment then no issue, I have bought...

Gaming consoles, digital cameras, shop for games online, pay for electricity and data bills, desktop PCs, laptops etc and that's because few stores online accepts Bitcoin and few other coins as means of payment.

None of these was bought in a offline store, no store in my area or city accepts Bitcoin as a means of payment.

1. Base-layer bitcoin is slow and can be expensive at times, hence why we have layer-2 solutions being developed — which are networks/channels designed to have cheaper and faster transactions.

2. You obviously can't use bitcoin to pay for everything today because not everyone accepts BTC as payment. A bandaid solution though are bitcoin debit cards — which are quite useful if you're heavy on BTC and if you're fine with AML/KYC.

I don't have bitcoin yet but planning to acquire it. I have been in the forum for sometimes now though I am not regular, but studying whenever I visit the forum. And noticed one thing about bitcoin. Bitcoin is a digital money for trading, payment of goods and others. But what I noticed is that, bitcoin cannot be used to buy and pay some instant services and goods. Examples, you want to buy banana on the way while driving from a hawker, will you use bitcoin to pay the bananas? Because the way I am looking at it, it is possible but the delay in transfer is the concern here. Bitcoin transfer is not like the bank transfer in which we received instant allert within 2-3 minutes time. I know some people will say set the transaction fee high then you can pay whatever you are buying with instant alert. I don't think someone will pay something with BTC and the transaction fee is very high and double the amount you want to pay for the goods.

So I want to know in such situation, what will you do? I am asking this question because bitcoin is a digital currency for exchange of goods and services. I know that there are some services you pay ahead but what of the ones you are buying instant? You just came to the place and you want to buy from the hawker and zoom off, and you are to pay with bitcoin because there is no physical cash in your wallet/pocket/hands. And because of the delay in payment I was thinking that not everything we see can be purchased with bitcoin, is it true?