[Cancelled] OZLOTTO | Bitcointalksearch.org

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: dust on August 06, 2012, 09:41:01 PM

This asset is -EV for everybody except the issuer who can do huge insider trading. I'd advise everyone to stay away.

Insider trading ? I dont get what you mean.

Any winnings are divided equally amongst the number of shares they dont go to one of the shares....

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: organofcorti on August 06, 2012, 09:52:33 PM

Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:49:08 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:43:38 PM

Systems are better than single tickets as you get all the combinations of the numbers.

False. The probabilty of the victory is DIRECTLY proportional to the number of tickets bought.

Let's suppose that winning chanche is 1 / 100000 each ticket.

If you buy 100 different tickets, your chance is 1 / 1000, no matter which rules you apply and how you arrange them.

Any system, over several enough cycles, yelds exactly same results as playing with random tickets.

Prove me I am wrong! :-)

You are wrong. I think you're confusing lottery tickets with lotto.

Each entry does not have the same chance of winning. With Ozlotto, a "system" entry has a greater chance of winning. This is because it's not a lottery. You choose a certain number of numbers and and are paid out based on the the amount of numbers you have correct. A systems entry gives you more numbers per game and thus a better chance of winning.

If you want to calculate odd exactly you'll need to go to the ozlotto website (which I can't do at work), and read this wikipedia entry.

This is correct. A normal game you have 6 numbers out of 45. If you have 7,8 or 9 numbers in a systems entry that increases your chances as it includes all combinations of those numbers. You can win more than 1 time on a ticket.

organofcorti

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Poor impulse control.

Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:49:08 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:43:38 PM

Systems are better than single tickets as you get all the combinations of the numbers.

False. The probabilty of the victory is DIRECTLY proportional to the number of tickets bought.

Let's suppose that winning chanche is 1 / 100000 each ticket.

If you buy 100 different tickets, your chance is 1 / 1000, no matter which rules you apply and how you arrange them.

Any system, over several enough cycles, yelds exactly same results as playing with random tickets.

Prove me I am wrong! :-)

You are wrong. I think you're confusing lottery tickets with lotto.

Each entry does not have the same chance of winning. With Ozlotto, a "system" entry has a greater chance of winning. This is because it's not a lottery. You choose a certain number of numbers and and are paid out based on the the amount of numbers you have correct. A systems entry gives you more numbers per game and thus a better chance of winning.

If you want to calculate odd exactly you'll need to go to the ozlotto website (which I can't do at work), and read this wikipedia entry.

dust

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This asset is -EV for everybody except the issuer who can do huge insider trading. I'd advise everyone to stay away.

mc_lovin

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My posts in this thread are an illusion.

pyramining

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 09:01:46 PM

Investment /= Gambling

Call it as you like, my newly invented mining company is "gambling" then, and resembles exactly a scratch-ticket lottery (or almost any other kind of lotteries). I still don't see where is the fun.

Probably the fun exists when they are smart enough to give you the illusion that chances to win/prizes are higher than cost and/or risk. Still it's only an illusion.

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:56:47 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:51:15 PM

You get better odds with scratch tickets. I only play lotto for fun

Scratch tickets don't pay more than what you put in. It's exactly the same.

Would you buy bonds from a mining company that (I am putting some round number here to make it easier) mines out on average 1 block/day (~500 USD), and has a power cost of ~ 1000 USD / day?

Your idea is exactly the same, and it's worthless. However if you find it funny and you are willing to be an investor, I will start such a mining company on GLBSE for you. At the same time I will make a second company on GLBSE that sells power to the first one, with a huge markup, so investors may have higher dividends than Pirate! :-)

Investment /= Gambling

pyramining

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:51:15 PM

You get better odds with scratch tickets. I only play lotto for fun

Scratch tickets don't pay more than what you put in. It's exactly the same.

Would you buy bonds from a mining company that (I am putting some round number here to make it easier) mines out on average 1 block/day (~500 USD), and has a power cost of ~ 1000 USD / day?

Your idea is exactly the same, and it's worthless. However if you find it funny and you are willing to be an investor, I will start such a mining company on GLBSE for you. At the same time I will make a second company on GLBSE that sells power to the first one, with a huge markup, so investors may have higher dividends than Pirate! :-)

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:50:42 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:48:09 PM

One day a block might be worth $2 million so yes it would be like winning the lottery.

Ok, I think I have no way to explain it to you. Hope there's someone more clever than me who can do this task, before you and/or investors will lose money! :-)

This isnt investment it is gambling which are two different things. I dont consider spending my spare change on scratch tickets as an investment either Cheesy

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:49:08 PM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:43:38 PM

Systems are better than single tickets as you get all the combinations of the numbers.

False. The probabilty of the victory is DIRECTLY proportional to the number of tickets bought.

Let's suppose that winning chanche is 1 / 100000 each ticket.

If you buy 100 different tickets, your chance is 1 / 1000, no matter which rules you apply and how you arrange them.

Any system, over several enough cycles, yelds exactly same results as playing with random tickets.

Prove me I am wrong! :-)

You get better odds with scratch tickets. I only play lotto for fun

Calling it an "investment" is wrong.

pyramining

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:48:09 PM

One day a block might be worth $2 million so yes it would be like winning the lottery.

Ok, I think I have no way to explain it to you. Hope there's someone more clever than me who can do this task, before you and/or investors will lose money! :-)

pyramining

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 08:43:38 PM

Systems are better than single tickets as you get all the combinations of the numbers.

False. The probabilty of the victory is DIRECTLY proportional to the number of tickets bought.

Let's suppose that winning chanche is 1 / 100000 each ticket.

If you buy 100 different tickets, your chance is 1 / 1000, no matter which rules you apply and how you arrange them.

Any system, over several enough cycles, yelds exactly same results as playing with random tickets.

Prove me I am wrong! :-)

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:46:02 PM

Quote from: mc_lovin on August 06, 2012, 08:42:01 PM

Yes, but lotteries provide a chance at a big win.

Yes, but with a big expense (I assume you aren't familiar with statistics).

It's exactly like mining with huge power costs, hoping that luck would bring you a block before power costs will be higher than the reward.

One day a block might be worth $2 million so yes it would be like winning the lottery.

mc_lovin

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bitcoin.me are you refusing to comment on the fact that your "lottery company" idea was taken from me?

pyramining

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Quote from: mc_lovin on August 06, 2012, 08:42:01 PM

Yes, but lotteries provide a chance at a big win.

Yes, but with a big expense (I assume you aren't familiar with statistics).

It's exactly like mining with huge power costs, hoping that luck would bring you a block before power costs will be higher than the reward.

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: mc_lovin on August 06, 2012, 08:42:01 PM

Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:36:48 PM

Mc_lovin (but maybe this applies also to bitcoin.me), it's funny that you want to invest into mining companies and at the same time partecipating into lottery.

Mining is a very fast lottery, every hash calculated is a ticket, and if you win, you get 50 BTC.

Lottery is the same, much more slower, with the difference that money you put in is less than money you get.

It's like mining with extremely high electricity costs (higher than revenues).

Does it make sense?

Yes, but lotteries provide a chance at a big win.

Systems are better than single tickets as you get all the combinations of the numbers.

mc_lovin

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Quote from: pyramining on August 06, 2012, 08:36:48 PM

Mc_lovin (but maybe this applies also to bitcoin.me), it's funny that you want to invest into mining companies and at the same time partecipating into lottery.

Mining is a very fast lottery, every hash calculated is a ticket, and if you win, you get 50 BTC.

Lottery is the same, much more slower, with the difference that money you put in is less than money you get.

It's like mining with extremely high electricity costs (higher than revenues).

Does it make sense?

Yes, but lotteries provide a chance at a big win.

Bitcoin Oz

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Mining bonds in particular are a bad investment as the return reduces over time and they are way too overpriced for the return you can expect. Fixed interest securities are better to keep your principal intact. If you can find higher returns that are insured its a good thing.

pyramining

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Mc_lovin (but maybe this applies also to bitcoin.me), it's funny that you want to invest into mining companies and at the same time partecipating into lottery.

Mining is a very fast lottery, every hash calculated is a ticket, and if you win, you get 50 BTC.

Lottery is the same, much more slower, with the difference that money you put in is less than money you get.

It's like mining with extremely high electricity costs (higher than revenues).

Does it make sense?

mc_lovin

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It's funny you have this idea only hours after I post mine.

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/index.php?topic=958.msg1856#msg1856

Already submitted for approval, and the current version of the company should be approved according to Nefario's post above.

Side note, you last logged into my forum August 5th at 10PM. That means you "happened" to see it on my forum and I will now consider you to be an idea stealer.

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote

Any winnings get paid to shareholders

Where did you get the idea I would pay only 1 shareholder Huh

pyramining

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Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 07:37:38 AM

Then everyone holding a ticket/share gets paid.

I think that he wants to buy a set of other lottery's tickets with received funds, and in case they win, he will share the prize with investors as a dividend.

Nefario

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 07:20:18 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 07:16:02 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 07:03:40 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 06:10:12 AM

Listing it as an asset for a lotto company (where the funds are used to develop software or something) then yes that's fine, but having the shares being the lotto tickets, then no.

Nefario

Hey I've no problem with you going ahead with this, but having the tickets as shares won't work from a technical point of view either, there is no way to pick a single share out of all sold to make any payment to.

It also helps to keep GLBSE cleaner, there are already a lot of assets on the market page (this is going to be improved).

I would just convert the AUD to btc and pay it out as a dividend ?

Perhaps divide the assets into market sector would help.

Then everyone holding a ticket/share gets paid.

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 07:16:02 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 07:03:40 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 06:10:12 AM

Listing it as an asset for a lotto company (where the funds are used to develop software or something) then yes that's fine, but having the shares being the lotto tickets, then no.

Nefario

Hey I've no problem with you going ahead with this, but having the tickets as shares won't work from a technical point of view either, there is no way to pick a single share out of all sold to make any payment to.

It also helps to keep GLBSE cleaner, there are already a lot of assets on the market page (this is going to be improved).

I would just convert the AUD to btc and pay it out as a dividend ?

Perhaps divide the assets into market sector would help.

Nefario

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GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 06, 2012, 07:03:40 AM

Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 06:10:12 AM

Listing it as an asset for a lotto company (where the funds are used to develop software or something) then yes that's fine, but having the shares being the lotto tickets, then no.

Nefario

Hey I've no problem with you going ahead with this, but having the tickets as shares won't work from a technical point of view either, there is no way to pick a single share out of all sold to make any payment to.

It also helps to keep GLBSE cleaner, there are already a lot of assets on the market page (this is going to be improved).

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: Nefario on August 06, 2012, 06:10:12 AM

Listing it as an asset for a lotto company (where the funds are used to develop software or something) then yes that's fine, but having the shares being the lotto tickets, then no.

Nefario

Nefario

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Listing it as an asset for a lotto company (where the funds are used to develop software or something) then yes that's fine, but having the shares being the lotto tickets, then no.

Nefario

sebnow

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Interesting. Which securities do you plan on investing in?

Winning the jackpot (>$2mln AUD) would give about 90BTC per share (minus expenses) atm. The odds probably aren't that great with only 2200 shares though.

Bitcoin Oz

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Buying lotto tickets with a group of people is not illegal at least where I live Cheesy

Bitcoin Oz

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Quote from: dust on August 05, 2012, 06:16:33 PM

Are gambling securities allowed on the GLBSE?

I dont see why not.

dust

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Are gambling securities allowed on the GLBSE?

Bitcoin Oz

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Edit: This is a bad idea as people are confusing the purpose and structure of the fund.

Topic: [Cancelled] OZLOTTO (Read 2364 times)