Topic: Cannot wait for the Lightning Network to go mainstream!!! (Read 221 times)

schnorr doesnt help with lots of different inputs. schnorr only helps with multisig contracts.. where funds are put into one multiparty address.. where schnorr then hides how many signed it by making it one signature

end result is segwit already moves signatures out the baseblock to not count bytes(fake math) ..
thus segwit would have done some/maybe impact on the tx count
but schnorr because it only messes with signature data..makes no difference in tx count because schnorr just reduces the sig data sat outside the base block, thus it doesnt count anyway

analogy for the non-techs
imagine them trains in india where you see people sitting ontop the roofs because the cabin compartment is too packed
50 years ago:
a child and the proof of the childs origins ('witness'/signature) mother sit in the cabin.
years later it gets crowded. train conductor suggest segregation. get the mothers to sit on the roof so more families (children) can sit in the cabin seats.
not offering more seats in the cabin. just removing some entities to make a few more empty seats by not counting the mothers on the roof  
that is what segregated witness does.

next comes smart contracts where a father of the same child gets involved(multisignature) he too sits on the roof. ofcourse no more children fit in the cabin area, but now the roof is getting crowded... so schnorr hides how many people were involved with the conception of the child. by making the mother appear as parthenogenesis (self impregnateable) thus only one parent is on the roof again as no father can be seen
thats schnorr

schnorr doesnt make more seats in the cabin.. segregated witnesses job already takes mothers out of the cabin.
schnorr just cuts down on how many UNCOUNTED entities are involved outside the cabin.. the train conductor never counts the people on the roof anyway. so no impact on passenger(tx count) due to schnorr

....
but here is the thing people dont realise about LN
to actually get a reliable service on LN. most users need to open 5+ channels (onchain tx's) to have chances of reliable routes.
which is like imagining 5 indian children in the cabin with 5 parthenogenesis parents on the roof. just to have a good chance that 1 child gets to its desired destination

then once they done whatever they wanted. and want to come home again. 5children in cabin and 5 parthenogenesis mothers on roof

thats 10tx's worth of data per person.

even going one step further.
visa stats show that the average person only does ~1tx a day. and thats using a currency that can buy anything.
reality shows people wont risk more than 2 weeks worth of income in LN (even devs dont rccommend it) also psychologogy of average person does not plan/predict each and every spending habit beyond a fortnight.

so an average 14 tx's only end up turning into 10 tx's if lucky. for average joe.
this is why LN is not a "solution for everyone". its only a niche SERVICE for gambling/spammers who spend to same known destinations more than once a day

Yes, the main thing made me concern in bitcoin is the transaction speed.
There are many peoples already using bitcoin nowadays, but they need to wait their transaction accordingly with the btc blocktime.
Lightning network is the solution to overcome the slow block time in btc. If it fully developed, everyone can use bitcoin without waiting for 10 minutes.

Only the address sending the transaction matters for this case right? The fact that they're using legacy should be irrelevant.


Maybe they're using an outdated wallet that doesn't recognize Segwit addresses?

That's kind of sucks. You can see that Bitcoin cannot be used as a way of the transaction for small things for now. But I guess technology takes will time to advance especially that most of the people just focuses on the profit that they will gain on Bitcoin, not the technology itself.

that then makes them no longer a merchant service. but a custodial service. thus then needing auditors regulations, policies etc

same goes for LN. the 'factories' end up being custodial services.
much easier to just buy a starbucks giftcard or just use bakkt to buy coffee rather than to pre-plan spending habits for next two weeks to then use LN and have to split funds over several channels and have th risks that some routes are not online to spend all your money. or other people routd through you to spend your money before you could spend it yourself

dont get me wrong i understand the utopian concept of LN when everything is running correctly and everyone is online and no one is playing nasties. but reality is far different then the promises promised. the devs are starting to wise up to it too hense the video in my last post shows them saying LN has issues even they wont be able to fix.. its worth a watch, even by those that strongly defend that devs are kings and they own utopia

This is silly, volatility doesn't mean "negative price fluctuations", there are just as many chances to get profit off it, if the price goes up while they wait for confirmations and in the long run it would all even out. They are just shooting themselves in the foot with this stupid policy, because they have to deal with refunds and just scare off customers. If they are so scared of volatility, they should accept Bitcoin as a deposit on their site and allow to spend it as soon as it gets 1 confirmation.

Why do you think that?

It may have been that there wasn't a block mined in that time frame, or that your fee wasn't high enough. Or it may have been a fluke based on how a mining pool orders transactions. It shouldn't have to do with using (or not using) Segwit addresses.

The most recent development is that this merchant is not using SegWit addresses and this is why it is taking this long. I was sending from my SegWit addresses to their legacy address and for some reason it took 23 to 25 minutes to confirm the transaction.

I figured this out, when they wanted to refund my bitcoins and I send them a SegWit address and they emailed me to tell me that the address was wrong.

This should not be a problem, because the two should be backward compatible.   

Not sure what made you think so, but developments of this nature take a lot of time, in some cases even years. 1ML.com is a site allowing you to see the adoption taking place, it has shown some impressive growth lately.

Summarized: we need LN more than ever, and Bitcoin as it is right now isn't average joe ready. Why would they use a form of money that requires so much hassle prior to the moment they actually spend it?

That also applies to other crypto currencies, if it isn't the confirmation times and fees being an obstacle, the volatility itself will be. Money is meant to be something you spend without thinking. Crypto isn't that.

generally the problem that i experienced wass mostly in the past week ever since BCash fork drama started and bitcoin price also fell. bitcoin lost a small percentage of its hashrate which made finding blocks a little slower and also like always sudden and big price changes invites a surge of transactions. so when you low ball your fee to pay the minimum amount to have high priority (like 5 s/b) then a surge happens your tx falls behind.
so you either have to pay higher than recommended or get lucky and see a block right away.

Yeah, now I would have thought that the Lighting network would be mainstream, but apparently progress is slow right now, clearly segwit and segwit 2 are not enough, it is true that most transactions take up to 30min and for a crypto as usable as bitcoin, is not ideal if we want to engage with more people

lightning is not a bitcoin feature

lightning NETWORK is a separate network for multiple coins. it involve locking funds up into a permissioned contract with another person.
and then playing with unconfirmed unaudited funds with no guarantee that you will actually get value back.

what th OP doesnt realise is the issues bitcoin network has. LN also has plus more.
EG people think signing a transaction means value transferred. but as the OP has proven he broadcast 2 signed transactions on the main net and both didnt result they way he favoured.
(take a look at the visa CHARGEBACK scams that businesses hate.. LN is the same model. but with more issues)

so yea play with unconfirmed/unaudited transactions. but dont think that it means your guaranteed immutible value when you close out

its the same with banking. 19th century, vault up the gold and play with paper money. but no guarantee you get gold back out.

dont get me wrong the LN has a niche. but its not a bitcoin solution. its just a small side service for convenience. much like purchasing coffee via purse where you hand your BTC over to a trade partner and they give you a non blockchain method of payment in the form of a giftcard

oh and if you think and agree that LN should just be for its niche of small purchases. people wont want to be masternodes for litecoin/vertcoin and bitcoin to monitor channels to then atomic swap within LN..
(and dont rebut that people will just use litewallets as that again further detaches users from a trustless decentralised payment system)
they will use things like bakkts btc app

funny part about LN is
if you deposit 0.01btc($40)
you have to split it over 3-4 channels to get good routing($10 a channel)
you then end up having others routing through you. thus your $10 in a channel can be treated as spent, but not by you.

dont follow the utopian dream of promotion, instead take a step back and think logically, realistically and from the perspective of average joe. you will see that beyond thee promotional material that LN has flaws. and even the developers admit it
https://youtu.be/8lMLo-7yF5k?t=570

thank you for remind me that i have one since 5 months.and im checking the recksplorer now, there aremuch much more nodes since i did.thats great

What happened to you is a very strange thing. Can you include addresses here? It has been several months since it took more than 10 minutes to confirm my transactions. In fact, I get confirmations within two minutes and up to medium fees.
Encouraging newbies to use SegWit addresses, requiring wallets "Blockchain.info" to accept it will reduce fees until activating the lightning network.


You do not have to push them, so let things move slowly and with high precision. In the end, you do not want to lose your coins within the network.

I don't blame merchants and exchanges for not yet looking into LN, because there isn't much to gain yet, especially with how the main-net is doing a pretty decent job keeping the fees low.

I expect Schnorr to free up even more block space, and I expect this upgrade to be taking over rapidly with how beneficial it is to any sort of service receiving tons and tons of smaller inputs from users/customers. It would even say that I consider Schnorr to be one of the best on-chain upgrades to the network ever, especially with how its impact will be felt immediately.

Innovation right there. No bullshit gimmick features, just what you really need and benefit from.

At least now the fees around Bitcoin are much cheaper than before and I remember several months ago how clogged up the blockchain was and sometimes would have Bitcoin stuck for days on end and that was really nasty, plus the fees were so expensive. I hope now with Lightning Network things will get even more impressive for Bitcoin and more and more merchants will want to adopt it and take Bitcoin for their products and services. I am praying and hoping that we get mass adoption by 202 at least another 2-55 of people using Bitcoin and in general cryptocurrency as still at only 1% of the world's population owning any Bitcoin, that is still a very small amount so we have a long way to go yet.

They should probably use a payment processor to negate the volatility problem. Requiring a confirmation within 10 minutes is crazy -- even when block times are below 10 minutes on average, I've seen 2 hour gaps between blocks. It takes time to sign and broadcast the transaction too. This can't make for a good user experience...

Yes, I did contact them about implementing the Lightning Network, but they have not seen anyone asking for this, so they reckon if there are not a lot of people asking for it, then it is not worth the time and effort to implement it.

I did ask them to increase the 10 minute confirmation window, but they say the volatility will eat into their profits, if the price goes down, like it is doing at the current moment.

10 minute window of confirmation for a bitcoin transaction is just dumb and it has nothing to do with fees, backlog or anything else. 10 minute is the average time when a block can be found. sometimes it is 1 second and sometimes it can go as high as 1 hour.

what websites that accept payment like this do is that they have a X minute payment window not "confirmation" which means you have to make the payment in that time frame or it will be invalid. and if you do then they will wait for it to confirm which can be longer than 10 min.

ps. have you contacted the website with suggestion to implement LN?

On Monday I bought a item on sale from a online website and they had a buy 1 / get 1 free deal for the day. I placed my order and I paid with bitcoin, but they have a 10 minute timeframe for the transaction to confirm.

So, I did the checkout and I paid with Bitcoin and watched the countdown from 10 minutes. Well, the SegWit transaction  did not confirm in 10 minutes.

In the end, my money was refunded and I missed out on the deal. 

The Lightning Network would have solved this problem, but we are not even close to mainstream adoption and the merchant says that they not going to switch to the Lightning Network, until there are large demand for it.