Can't send transaction containing small amounts of Bitcoins

jaywaka2713

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aka 7Strykes

Quote from: DannyHamilton on June 04, 2013, 08:24:23 PM

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 04, 2013, 08:18:14 PM

Just downgrade to 0.8.1 to send the transaction. The change is a client patch I believe, not a change to bitcoind, so I don't think the blockchain is being forked to force the limit. If anything, you can remove it using a bitcoin.conf file, or by using the mintxfee in the console.

The modification is to the default configuration of all the full nodes on the network. If you downgrade to send a "non-standard" transaction, you may find that all of your connected peers will refuse to relay the transaction and the few miners that you happen to connect directly to will refuse to add it to a block. If may take a VERY long time for a generous miner to hear about the transaction and choose to add it to a block for you and then you have to hope that miner has enough hash power to actually solve a block in your lifetime.

It is possible that many peers and/or miners will choose to remove the restriction and relay/confirm these "non-standard" transactions, but be aware that you are taking a risk. Do you have a plan on how you will handle the situation if your transaction still doesn't have its first confirmation after 3 months?

I forgot that the change was a node change instead of a blockchain change, so the software change won't work. You are correct. Just wait till you have a bigger output to send to everyone, or attach a very high TX fee.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 04, 2013, 08:18:14 PM

Just downgrade to 0.8.1 to send the transaction. The change is a client patch I believe, not a change to bitcoind, so I don't think the blockchain is being forked to force the limit. If anything, you can remove it using a bitcoin.conf file, or by using the mintxfee in the console.

The modification is to the default configuration of all the full nodes on the network. If you downgrade to send a "non-standard" transaction, you may find that all of your connected peers will refuse to relay the transaction and the few miners that you happen to connect directly to will refuse to add it to a block. If may take a VERY long time for a generous miner to hear about the transaction and choose to add it to a block for you and then you have to hope that miner has enough hash power to actually solve a block in your lifetime.

It is possible that many peers and/or miners will choose to remove the restriction and relay/confirm these "non-standard" transactions, but be aware that you are taking a risk. Do you have a plan on how you will handle the situation if your transaction still doesn't have its first confirmation after 3 months?

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Just downgrade to 0.8.1 to send the transaction. The change is a client patch I believe, not a change to bitcoind, so I don't think the blockchain is being forked to force the limit. If anything, you can remove it using a bitcoin.conf file, or by using the mintxfee in the console.

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2612

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: DannyHamilton on June 04, 2013, 02:46:56 AM

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC.
- snip -

The new 0.8.2 Bitcoin-Qt has a limit that prevents sending (or relaying) transactions that have outputs smaller than 0.00005430 BTC:

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 29, 2013, 04:20:28 PM

- snip -
0.8.2 Release notes

Fee Policy changes

The default fee for low-priority transactions is lowered from 0.0005 BTC
(for each 1,000 bytes in the transaction; an average transaction is
about 500 bytes) to 0.0001 BTC.

Payments (transaction outputs) of 0.543 times the minimum relay fee
(0.00005430 BTC) are now considered 'non-standard', because storing them
costs the network more than they are worth and spending them will usually
cost their owner more in transaction fees than they are worth.

Non-standard transactions are not relayed across the network, are not included
in blocks by most miners, and will not show up in your wallet until they are
included in a block.
- snip -

(emphasis added by me)

Probably that's the problem. I'll check it out when I'll get access to the bitcoin client. Thanks.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 4801

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC.
- snip -

The new 0.8.2 Bitcoin-Qt has a limit that prevents sending (or relaying) transactions that have outputs smaller than 0.00005430 BTC:

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on May 29, 2013, 04:20:28 PM

- snip -
0.8.2 Release notes

Fee Policy changes

The default fee for low-priority transactions is lowered from 0.0005 BTC
(for each 1,000 bytes in the transaction; an average transaction is
about 500 bytes) to 0.0001 BTC.

Payments (transaction outputs) of 0.543 times the minimum relay fee
(0.00005430 BTC) are now considered 'non-standard', because storing them
costs the network more than they are worth and spending them will usually
cost their owner more in transaction fees than they are worth.

Non-standard transactions are not relayed across the network, are not included
in blocks by most miners, and will not show up in your wallet until they are
included in a block.
- snip -

(emphasis added by me)

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2612

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 06:02:51 PM

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 02:00:55 PM

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 11:21:23 AM

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC. The full amount of the transaction is 0,00126 BTC, the transaction fee is set 0.0005 BTC per kB. It simply says 'Transaction amount too small' and then 'Transaction creation failed'. Anyway I could get through this because I am running a small Bitcoin faucet and I really need to send the bitcoin. Thanks in advance.

Is your balance big enough to carry all the payments and the fee? It's possible you don't have the 0.0005 necessary for the fee. Also, the set fee is no longer 0.0005, it's 0.0001

Yes, the balance is big enough. It probably is the fee. When I'll get more funds I'll try again with a bigger fee and post if something (or nothing) happens

Are you using the new 0.8.2 client? It may be a bug. Make sure you are using the sendmany command correctly, and if nothing else works, roll back to 0.8.1 to do your transactions.

Yes, I am using the new client and I prefer sending through the UI rather then messing with commands. How do you use commands anyway?

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 02:00:55 PM

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 11:21:23 AM

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC. The full amount of the transaction is 0,00126 BTC, the transaction fee is set 0.0005 BTC per kB. It simply says 'Transaction amount too small' and then 'Transaction creation failed'. Anyway I could get through this because I am running a small Bitcoin faucet and I really need to send the bitcoin. Thanks in advance.

Is your balance big enough to carry all the payments and the fee? It's possible you don't have the 0.0005 necessary for the fee. Also, the set fee is no longer 0.0005, it's 0.0001

Yes, the balance is big enough. It probably is the fee. When I'll get more funds I'll try again with a bigger fee and post if something (or nothing) happens

Are you using the new 0.8.2 client? It may be a bug. Make sure you are using the sendmany command correctly, and if nothing else works, roll back to 0.8.1 to do your transactions.

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2612

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

Quote from: jaywaka2713 on June 03, 2013, 11:21:23 AM

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC. The full amount of the transaction is 0,00126 BTC, the transaction fee is set 0.0005 BTC per kB. It simply says 'Transaction amount too small' and then 'Transaction creation failed'. Anyway I could get through this because I am running a small Bitcoin faucet and I really need to send the bitcoin. Thanks in advance.

Is your balance big enough to carry all the payments and the fee? It's possible you don't have the 0.0005 necessary for the fee. Also, the set fee is no longer 0.0005, it's 0.0001

Yes, the balance is big enough. It probably is the fee. When I'll get more funds I'll try again with a bigger fee and post if something (or nothing) happens

jaywaka2713

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

aka 7Strykes

Quote from: mprep on June 03, 2013, 08:24:00 AM

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC. The full amount of the transaction is 0,00126 BTC, the transaction fee is set 0.0005 BTC per kB. It simply says 'Transaction amount too small' and then 'Transaction creation failed'. Anyway I could get through this because I am running a small Bitcoin faucet and I really need to send the bitcoin. Thanks in advance.

Is your balance big enough to carry all the payments and the fee? It's possible you don't have the 0.0005 necessary for the fee. Also, the set fee is no longer 0.0005, it's 0.0001

mprep

global moderator

Activity: 3794

Merit: 2612

In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce

I'm trying to send a transaction containing 38 addresses each receiving the amount of 0,00002 BTC. The full amount of the transaction is 0,00126 BTC, the transaction fee is set 0.0005 BTC per kB. It simply says 'Transaction amount too small' and then 'Transaction creation failed'. Anyway I could get through this because I am running a small Bitcoin faucet and I really need to send the bitcoin. Thanks in advance.

Topic: Can't send transaction containing small amounts of Bitcoins (Read 5131 times)