Capital controls in China. No effect on Bitcoin?

Zivdafast

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Quote from: hermanhs09 on July 08, 2016, 06:57:52 AM

If we get some crisis in china ( which is pretty impossible for me,they are the best economy so far ) we will get a huuge impact on bitcoin,
im sure about it.
Too many big whales in btc are from there,we have to hope that everything is going to be fine with chinese people Wink

The Chinese are just miners to secure the network of bitcoin. They are hard labours.. There is not many whales there.

hermanhs09

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If we get some crisis in china ( which is pretty impossible for me,they are the best economy so far ) we will get a huuge impact on bitcoin,
im sure about it.
Too many big whales in btc are from there,we have to hope that everything is going to be fine with chinese people Wink

yugo23

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

Why do you believe it doesn't produce a sustainable effect on btc price?
Fluctuations of btc prices come from so many different factors! We can only guess what's really affecting it concretly!
Maybe it's acting and we believe wrongly that brexit is at stake ^^

praprata

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Quote from: Zivdafast on July 08, 2016, 03:28:11 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on June 19, 2016, 04:28:04 AM

Quote from: Zeke2345 on March 28, 2016, 06:11:03 PM

China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

Chinese people always think ahead of time and they know the potential and future of the bitcoins. See the timing of Chinese to invest in bitcoins just a month before halving, making halving too much profitable for Chinese miners as most of the coins are mined in china these days.

So the Westerners should buy more bitcoin as it is the future of money and if you do not want to be a slave, you have hold bitcoin.

For EU people bitcoin is not the main asset to invest it. The EU government is doing all that it can to stop bitcoin by implementing bogus laws.

tyz

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The brexit has shown that established western fiat currencies like the British pound are not immun against big dumps. I am pretty sure it was not the last major currency which falls in value that much. We just need to take a look at Italy and the hugh problems with banks. The Euro could be the next victim of the massive debts.

Quote from: Zivdafast on July 08, 2016, 03:28:11 AM

Quote from: noormcs5 on June 19, 2016, 04:28:04 AM

Quote from: Zeke2345 on March 28, 2016, 06:11:03 PM

China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

Chinese people always think ahead of time and they know the potential and future of the bitcoins. See the timing of Chinese to invest in bitcoins just a month before halving, making halving too much profitable for Chinese miners as most of the coins are mined in china these days.

So the Westerners should buy more bitcoin as it is the future of money and if you do not want to be a slave, you have hold bitcoin.

Zivdafast

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 19, 2016, 04:28:04 AM

Quote from: Zeke2345 on March 28, 2016, 06:11:03 PM

China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

Chinese people always think ahead of time and they know the potential and future of the bitcoins. See the timing of Chinese to invest in bitcoins just a month before halving, making halving too much profitable for Chinese miners as most of the coins are mined in china these days.

So the Westerners should buy more bitcoin as it is the future of money and if you do not want to be a slave, you have hold bitcoin.

SilverPunk

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Quote from: noormcs5 on June 19, 2016, 04:28:04 AM

Quote from: Zeke2345 on March 28, 2016, 06:11:03 PM

China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

Chinese people always think ahead of time and they know the potential and future of the bitcoins. See the timing of Chinese to invest in bitcoins just a month before halving, making halving too much profitable for Chinese miners as most of the coins are mined in china these days.

Yes ,chinese is good when it terms of investments thats why even there is a huge number of population there they can still manipulate the richness of their country .they are ahead of technologies business and investing matters .so most of them holds a lot of bitcoins.

noormcs5

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Quote from: Zeke2345 on March 28, 2016, 06:11:03 PM

China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

Chinese people always think ahead of time and they know the potential and future of the bitcoins. See the timing of Chinese to invest in bitcoins just a month before halving, making halving too much profitable for Chinese miners as most of the coins are mined in china these days.

OROBTC

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...

Every report that I have read indicates that the Chinese are doing the bulk of BTC buying over the past 10 days or so. There is an effort among some of the wealthy in China to get money out, without doubt some of that may be via BTC. BTC allows easy "export" of capital, capital controls don't work w/ Bitcoin...

And there are a LOT of ways to get BTC out of China. Hardware wallets (my favorite). blockchain.info wallet & similar (only recommended for short-term use). In a smartphone. Or just direct transmission of BTC to a trusted one already outside China.

Easy peasy.

vero

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

I think if the Chinese government took the decision to take the pressure on the yuan, it will have an impact on price increases due most of the holder of bitcoin is china of course they will secure their money so as not eroded by inflation by buying bitcoin.

Legasean

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

Spectators think this is the reason of the current rise. Which I doubt.
Every time the price goes up it's on weekends, where banks etc are closed. The price is being manipulated and it's not the chinese people buying in.

tyz

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Really? Take a closer look at the volume of fiat currencies in Bitcoin trading from March 2016.
https://twitter.com/carsoncole/status/705493658309513216

Chinese Yuan beats US-Dollar and Euro by light years. This means most of the price increasing is because of Chinese trading. If they increase their trading volume than the Bitcoin price will heavily be affected.

Quote from: HeroCat on June 16, 2016, 10:19:39 AM

It will not affect BTC, because BTC market price depend from demand - buy/sell and market is worldwide, especially USA, therefore China can not make real effect on BTC price. Grin

serjent05

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Quote from: HeroCat on June 16, 2016, 10:19:39 AM

It will not affect BTC, because BTC market price depend from demand - buy/sell and market is worldwide, especially USA, therefore China can not make real effect on BTC price. Grin

IF Chinese demand on Bitcoin is permanently increasing day by day, then this will greatly affect BTC price, same goes if they abandoned that demand, the Bitcoin bubble will burst and BTC price will plummet. Either way every single person generally have effect on price of Bitcoin, it might be a nano effect or a huge effect. Remember price is driven by supply and demand so every buy and sell does have a real effect on BTC price.

HeroCat

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It will not affect BTC, because BTC market price depend from demand - buy/sell and market is worldwide, especially USA, therefore China can not make real effect on BTC price. Grin

Pab

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Capital controls in China , Capital controls in USA,Russia,Europe,all govs are trying to control capital
effect on bitcoin,any,if you compere bitcoin market to fiat money market bitcoin is small,but now investors looks at bitcoin more like in the asset to invest

pereira4

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Bitcoin doesn't care about Capital controls, it just works, that's why millions and millions are being moved as we speak out of china, you can see it in fiatleak.com, the amount of BTC being bought from china increases every day for years now.

tyz

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Why do Chinese manipulate Bitcoin price in your opinion? Roll Eyes

I think they do no manipulate it accidently, they just want to bring capital abroad and need a "tool" to avoid the capial controls. Bitcoin is such a tool. So it is no price manipulation by accident just a natural increase of demand.

Quote from: DuckKeeper on June 14, 2016, 11:14:04 AM

Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

The Chinees try and manipulate the Bitcoin and I do not know why there are doing this. I hope that nothing will change because of this, I am here to make money.

DuckKeeper

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

The Chinees try and manipulate the Bitcoin and I do not know why there are doing this. I hope that nothing will change because of this, I am here to make money.

Slowturtleinc

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As much as China would love to control everything they just do not have the power set up to push every one aside.

luciann

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Quote from: Hirose UK on March 28, 2016, 08:20:20 PM

Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

I'm wondering.
perhaps China's control does not affect the world so much, or it's still trying, in a process of changing the capital.
don't know exactly, just see in a next couple years.

They been trying to control over the us dollar, like someone mention above.

But like you also point out, china still doesnt have much power like we think buts its in the process with them which would take more time.

tyz

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Quote from: Hirose UK on March 28, 2016, 08:20:20 PM

Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

I'm wondering.
perhaps China's control does not affect the world so much, or it's still trying, in a process of changing the capital.
don't know exactly, just see in a next couple years.

Years? This will be rather a question of months. Bitcoin price keeps very stable over the last weeks. It could be an positive impact but much more less then I thought.

Hirose UK

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

I'm wondering.
perhaps China's control does not affect the world so much, or it's still trying, in a process of changing the capital.
don't know exactly, just see in a next couple years.

Zeke2345

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China has actually been buying up property all around the world to protect its self from being overexposed to the Yuan. Think they are well aware of how things can go sideways on them one of these days. If it does,I expect other currencies to fall as well.

mrhelpful

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Quote from: BellaBitBit on March 24, 2016, 10:16:30 PM

China has been buying a lot of US property as a safety net against yuan for the last few years, maybe they are hodling the property?

The reason for china to do this is because they been owed for a long time lol.

They see other forms of collateral with aiding to the us deficit. Eventually wanting to replace the u.s dollar. There is a debate on this at zerohedge where they talk about wanting to become a global universal currency instead of the dollar.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-11/dollar-chinas-financial-war

tyz

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Unfortunately the site uses a paywall. Did not mean that 1 trillon $ left China through Bitcoin but 1 trillion left China in total and a part of it by using Bitcoin.

Quote from: Herbert2020 on March 25, 2016, 05:20:30 AM

Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

because 1 trillion dollars (where did you get that number anyways i can read the article?) is not leaving the country through bitcoin and bitcoin mining. it is like comparing apples and oranges.

alyssa85

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Quote from: Kprawn on March 25, 2016, 05:43:26 AM

Quote from: tyz on March 24, 2016, 06:04:15 PM

Well, I did some research and came to point that it will only have a minimal impact of Bitcoin. When people try to get money out of the country by buying Bitcoin then they need to sell them some time later again. So, there is only a short increase of demand.

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on March 20, 2016, 01:34:53 PM

Many rich in China actually do business in USD and hold bank accounts overseas.

Bitcoin maybe just one of the many ways they transfer their wealth out of China.

I have to agree with you on this, but if this was true and $1 trillion USD did go through Bitcoin, we would have noticed this on the exchanges. I do not doubt that corrupt Chinese officials might have

used Bitcoin to attempt to hide their dark deals, but it was nowhere close to these numbers. A major capital flee will also be noticed immediately on the Chinese exchanges, and their government

would react accordingly, if that was true. Huh

Remember that a lot of miners are in China - I wouldn't be surprised if they are selling BTC directly to rich Chinese without going through an exchange (face to face transactions using cash). That way they can't be traced the way people who use exchanges are traced. Bitcoin has moved from about $200 last year to about $400 now. That's a big move in price!

Kprawn

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Quote from: tyz on March 24, 2016, 06:04:15 PM

Well, I did some research and came to point that it will only have a minimal impact of Bitcoin. When people try to get money out of the country by buying Bitcoin then they need to sell them some time later again. So, there is only a short increase of demand.

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on March 20, 2016, 01:34:53 PM

Many rich in China actually do business in USD and hold bank accounts overseas.

Bitcoin maybe just one of the many ways they transfer their wealth out of China.

I have to agree with you on this, but if this was true and $1 trillion USD did go through Bitcoin, we would have noticed this on the exchanges. I do not doubt that corrupt Chinese officials might have

used Bitcoin to attempt to hide their dark deals, but it was nowhere close to these numbers. A major capital flee will also be noticed immediately on the Chinese exchanges, and their government

would react accordingly, if that was true. Huh

Herbert2020

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

because 1 trillion dollars (where did you get that number anyways i can read the article?) is not leaving the country through bitcoin and bitcoin mining. it is like comparing apples and oranges.

tyz

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Quote from: Pab on March 24, 2016, 10:40:16 PM

What are you talking about capital control is in Greece and USA
Chinise may open bank account in any place in the world
...

I am talking about this http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-03-01/china-to-impose-more-capital-controls-straszheim
Wink

Pab

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What are you talking about capital control is in Greece and USA
Chinise may open bank account in any place in the world
Thay can open Uphold account and exchange yuan to btc eth and many fiat money thay have his Uphold integrated with AliPay,Now Wirex is offering btc cards to chinise also .In USA you have FACTA nothing outside of USA is available for you.Drink big bottle of verycold water maybe it will help

BellaBitBit

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China has been buying a lot of US property as a safety net against yuan for the last few years, maybe they are hodling the property?

tyz

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Well, I did some research and came to the point that it will only have a minimal impact of Bitcoin. When people try to get money out of the country by buying Bitcoin then they need to sell them some time later again. So, there is only a short increase of demand.

Quote from: 7788bitcoin on March 20, 2016, 01:34:53 PM

Many rich in China actually do business in USD and hold bank accounts overseas.

Bitcoin maybe just one of the many ways they transfer their wealth out of China.

Zeke2345

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Its to easy for the rich Chinese to move money through lawyers,they need to move big sums and where can you meet safe to move millions of bitcoin without getting robbed or found out? Bitcoin is to small a player to make big moves like this when you factor in the eyes watching you. You would either leave a paper trail or you would need physical money to get the bitcoin. Both options are bad when you think the potential could be jail time.
The rich are also rich because they know how to manipulate the system and they see no need to change the business scheme to get into bitcoin.

shintosai

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I think there's some casino game in china who's already adopting btc, so even rich guy coming from china also use bitcoin, easiest way to send money w/out a trace, I just don't have any relative proof as of this moment but china also adopting bitcoin and they started to use it.

7788bitcoin

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Many rich in China actually do business in USD and hold bank accounts overseas.

Bitcoin maybe just one of the many ways they transfer their wealth out of China.

RealPhotoshoper

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

people said that china give some effect to bitcoin price,but actually is not,they contribute to bitcoin price when so many people on china start adopt bitcoin and start to invest on it.

NUFCrichard

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To be honest, we don't need the rich guys to use bitcoin to move their money out of China, we need one or two!
The total value of Bitcoin might be too low for someone to really move wealth around, but if one Billioniare moved a few hundred million into bitcoin, the price would skyrocket.

That is a good thing for bitcoin, but maybe a bad thing for the investor. I personally wouldn't be too keen to buy into an Alt if I thought that I needed to pay say 20% higher than market rate, because my buy was too big for the market!

zodiac3011

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Quote from: Babayega31 on March 04, 2016, 02:20:45 AM

Quote from: zodiac3011 on March 03, 2016, 06:51:22 AM

Quote from: Zivdafast on March 03, 2016, 06:47:07 AM

The rich guys do not use bitcoin. Even if they transfer bitcoin to the West, it will be difficult for them to exchange into fiat.

why do you say so? and if you don't use bitcoin then how? Bitcoin is much faster kind of transaction than bank transfer. Exchanging into fiat is now kinda difficult only in USA I have to say

agree, but rich guy will trade btc to gold for long invest, maybe they only use bitcoin for fun, or for style?? or money laundry maybe the anonymousity bitcoin can avoid tax etc.. dll idk.. im just newbie

nah rich guy won't trade btc for gold at all they will buy gold with fiat for sure. whether bitcoin can avoid tax or not still can be a big problem while Swedish (I remember so) is the only one to remove tax for bitcoin

Kakmakr

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It could also be that most of the money has already crossed the borders and that the panic that surrounded the previous event has subsided since. Another possibility is that they might have found another way to transfer the money without the government knowing and they do not need Bitcoin to do it. There are no sure way to really know what they are doing, but it's obvious that Bitcoin is not the primary panic button and
exit strategy to counter Capital controls. This is in a way good news for Bitcoin but bad for the price.

Babayega31

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Quote from: zodiac3011 on March 03, 2016, 06:51:22 AM

Quote from: Zivdafast on March 03, 2016, 06:47:07 AM

The rich guys do not use bitcoin. Even if they transfer bitcoin to the West, it will be difficult for them to exchange into fiat.

why do you say so? and if you don't use bitcoin then how? Bitcoin is much faster kind of transaction than bank transfer. Exchanging into fiat is now kinda difficult only in USA I have to say

agree, but rich guy will trade btc to gold for long invest, maybe they only use bitcoin for fun, or for style?? or money laundry maybe the anonymousity bitcoin can avoid tax etc.. dll idk.. im just newbie

zodiac3011

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Quote from: Zivdafast on March 03, 2016, 06:47:07 AM

The rich guys do not use bitcoin. Even if they transfer bitcoin to the West, it will be difficult for them to exchange into fiat.

why do you say so? and if you don't use bitcoin then how? Bitcoin is much faster kind of transaction than bank transfer. Exchanging into fiat is now kinda difficult only in USA I have to say

Zivdafast

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The rich guys do not use bitcoin. Even if they transfer bitcoin to the West, it will be difficult for them to exchange into fiat.

n2004al

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

The link cannot be read because need payment and subscription. So everything told following may not be correct. Or better is written having in mind the possible (known or guessed) ways of going of the money out of a country. First of all the effect of this migration to bitcoin might be the actual price of bitcoin (which is not few) and all the stability of its price the last year. Then was a bubble a November which was attributed to the Chinese market and the increase of demand came from this bitcoin market. Then maybe the most of them who send money out of China (don't have statistics or data that can argues such variant so it is only a guess) are miners or are connected with each other. If so, are known people between them which do exchange of favors between each other and this make the price of bitcoin at the same level. Or the last variant (which may be not the less important) bitcoin is used very few in this migration of money. There are to many ways (and even more secure) invented even before the born of bitcoin. Maybe these channels are the most preferred ones compared to bitcoin.

zodiac3011

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Quote from: tyz on January 29, 2016, 04:15:58 PM

Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

I have to wonder about this too. The capital controls have made a great effect on the bitcoin price last time but not this time? Last time, the law pumps the price up significantly. However, this time it doesn't have any effect yet or the lunar new year causes something with the price which overwhelms the effect of capital controls?

tyz

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Chinese government is considering to extend the capital controls in order to stop the outflows and take away the pressure on the Yuan currency. Obviously, there has been left capital of around 1 trillion dollars within last year. Why does it not produce an sustainable effect on Bitcoin price?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5213ea3e-c35d-11e5-b3b1-7b2481276e45.html

Topic: Capital controls in China. No effect on Bitcoin? (Read 1942 times)