Topic: Capitalism will make socialist ideals a reality (Read 336 times)

You can't see any innovative technological advance from the socialist countries because they aren't so much right now. We have capitalism all around the world and this trend moves the global economy. In the past years, USSR had many innovations that were coming from scientists that were living there, the problem is that these ideas were filtered a lot from their leaders.

Virtually every socialist country has always slowly slipped into an authoritarian form of government. On paper everything was beautiful, the slogans were about equality and justice, but in fact everything was the opposite. That is why the USSR actually collapsed. In the name of the people, the people were in fact oppressed and destroyed. Capitalism has been freer and more open.

I think capitalism system is better than socialist system. In capitalism system, we earn from what we do, if we do hard work, we get good result. In socialist system, people do hard work or lazy get the same thing and i think its not fair

Yes, capitalism gives everyone (well, almost) fair chance to become someone in their life. But there can't really be democracy in socialism, as those things aren't really connected. Limit was put to people, because ideal concept never worked because people implementing it were flawed.

I see capitalism as a chance given to people, deserves this chance who can prove himself. As far as I know, in socialism there was no such thing as "democracy". A certain limit has been put on people and who exceed were punished huge.

this constant observation of what is happening in this area has never left anyone indifferent. I believe that the cryptocurrency is a new round of events in the framework of

For me it is all about quality living. Many people in Socialist countries accept a certain quality of living, because most of the

people around him or her, live at the same level. (Mostly Middle Class or Poor) In a Capitalist system, people are rewarded

for their individual "inputs" and the more you bring to the table, the more you get rewarded. So if you can add quality skills or

services, you can earn a much bigger income and your family will thrive and even become filthy rich. So, if I were given the

choice to be rewarded, based on my individual "inputs", then I would rather chose a capitalist system. Yes, it might not

distribute wealth equally, but the reward is much higher. Why should I have to work my ass off to pay for some other lazy

person, that does not want to work that hard, to have the same quality of living? I will rather pay taxes to support those

people who cannot get work or who do not want to work. (They will just have to accept that they will have to live at a much

lower quality lifestyle, based on their "inputs" into the economy.)

Bitcoin cannot thrive under a Socialist system, where people are not incentivised to work harder and to come up with some

innovative ideas, where they are not rewarded for those ideas.    

Typically the masses only react when it's too late, so I wouldn't be hoping for some kind of revolution to happen, that's delusional. What is interesting is to see what will happen once SHTF and everyone except some elite living in Elysium are living a decent life, since machines will have made all possible attempts of making money impossible. That is coming, again I don't care if it takes 100 or 1000 or 10000 years, those that are otherwise are deluded by thinking "oh but new forms of jobs will appear".


I also think that bitcoin may play a role in the concept of entities that aren't human holding wealth and transacting, but there are more reason to hold it. Perhaps as a way to hold value into a transition to something else in the future. The blockchain would still hold what you own, a government in deep trouble may not. The fact that his is the case makes it valuable.

Correct.

Criminals (regardless of their nature) are one of the most flexible and creative entities in an economy. In most cases they are always a few steps ahead of everyone else, and I don't see this change at all. People somehow think when this or that happens, everyone will have a better life and there is less criminality, but the nature of the beast is that it adapts to every new situation and keeps doing what it inherently taught itself to do.

It's time for people to stand up for themselves and don't rely on anyone else in order to make the world a better place. If everyone just keeps waiting for governments to take action, we'll be in the exact same situation in 2030 without any booked progress. I'm glad I stepped up right on time, but the sad thing is that everyone around me is still doing the same things they did years ago, have not changed of opinion, and will likely never change of opinion. It's their loss in the end.

From a historical perspective, a hard form of socialism was attempted on a large scale in both stalinist russia and maoist china. In both instances socialism was tried and found to be an inferior system. To compete economically on a global scale, both socialist russia and socialist china were forced to abandon socialism in favor of capitalism which has proven to be a better system.

In terms of capitalism vs socialism there are two options present. Either people have the freedom and right to own property, start businesses and patent / copyright their intellectual property. Or people lack these basic freedoms and rights under socialism where the government owns everything and controls everything.

Suffice it to say, the narrative which demonizes and attacks capitalism without providing much evidence or detail to support this thesis is totalitarian in origin.

And you think that socialist and communist countries live in harmony with the environment? Because that is false as well, if that is what you want then you do not need a change from capitalism to socialism what we need is to change the way we think about the world and about growth, just take a look at the way we consume, people buy clothes every week or month when in the past people kept and maintained stuff for years or decades

Bitcoin will obviously go to the moon. Just imagine what will
happen when increasingly AIs make investment decisions.
Faced with the decision between inflationary fiat currencies
and a hard currency like BTC, they will obviously allocate funds to Bitcoin.


Why do you think that an eradication of poverty leads to a reduction in the crime rate?
I´d argue that this may be true for some types of felonies, but things like white collar
crime shouldn´t be influenced by this at all. Besides, a big welfare state
opens up completely new opportunities for crime (e.g. people that claim welfare
payments while earning additional funds by dealing drugs or similar stuff).

I agree with what you think, but I think there is a group of elites in the world who design all this to master the world economy, we know that we must follow the prevailing system so that everyone does not all have the freedom to do economic activities.

The truth is, as automation continues improving and getting rid of jobs, on a long enough timeline the majority of people will be rendered out of any possible employment. At that point what you have is a ton of people unable to meet coverage of basic needs.

So what are you going to do about it? I only see two options:

-Minimum wage of sorts is implemented to avoid massive rioting due big amounts of desperate people within your country.

-Annihilation of population: The elite gets rid of the masses because they no longer need them (and guess what, we are the masses, don't be deluded to think otherwise)

Outlook looking not so good. And I don't care if it takes 20 or 1000 years, eventually machines will be able to do most tasks.

How Bitcoin will play out in this scenario? who knows, but the sane thing is to be holding a decent amount just in case.

I just think of all those happy Venezuelans out there and question the first sentence... 

perhaps cryptocurrencies will help to look at many things differently, because the possibilities of cryptocurrencies without

there is a good deal with a social country that adopts a capitalist which has equal people's aims. like cheap goods and basic technology. just imagine things that are something that is expensive already affordable.

I would argue that if you live in the United States, definitely a capitalist country, you won't starve to death if you're out of work.  You can get food stamps and state-paid health insurance.  You could live in a shelter or get housing assistance, and probably cash assistance too.  There are soup kitchens, and many other forms of help for low-income folks.

Socialism has been tried before.  It just doesn't work.  I'm a big fan of capitalism, especially when the economy is booming (which it is now).  Even during the Great Recession of 2008-12 or thereabouts, it was still the best system.  I didn't read many instances of citizens staving to death in the US, did you?

Capitalism or socialism does not matter. Every opportunity to benefit people should be assessed. We have to give up on the wrong side and try to do the right things.

What we have to accept is, Capitalism has destroyed the world now.  We don't know how long the modern civilization will last with this situation? I think we must live in harmony with the environment. otherwise, we cannot survive. Nature will react soon.

You are falling in the same mistake that all socialists make, they see the wealth created by capitalism and they think that they can use that wealth to pay for all the free stuff that they want, but that is not the way it works as soon as you begin to give free stuff to people that takes away to desire to work hard for it and people stop innovating and working, this is what happened in Venezuela, and now look at the state of that country.

Free market capitalism is great but what you're speaking of is cronny capitalism where big corporation crush genuine competition and you're left with same products or spin of similar products. Equality of the people is utopian view which is hard to reach in a society that is driven by diversity.

Based on one article, under capitalism all people have a chance to make a better life for themselves, people have incentive to work and earn money to be spent. We have seen it throughout history that under capitalism many more people prosper than under systems like socialism and communism that often result in the birth of oppressive totalitarian regimes. In capitalism private property is sacred, the individual is respected with the right to a pursuit of happiness. Without capitalism many great innovations would have never come about. Many would argue that the worker isn't respected and is repressed by an oligarchy of corporate leaders, this is simply untrue due to the fact the worker has at his disposal the most precious commodity in the world, his labor. If a worker isn't treated fairly and receives to little pay, they have the ability to quit there job and work at a better company. This means if a business man wants workers to work at his business and produce the product he wants them to produce he must provide proper working conditions and wages in order to attract labor thus benefiting the worker. Capitalism is a good system

USA is a "capitalist" country,but I think that the US income taxes are quite big,if not "astronomical".
I don't think that you distinquish socialist countries from communist/totalitarian countries.I don't know wether or not the sitizens of North Korea are happy.Maybe they are,because they are still alive,maybe they aren't.Who knows?All that "capitalism vs. socialism" shit is completely obsolete.China is a very capitalist country with big social inequality,but with communist government.

Every is getting cheaper and cheaper over last millennium, but we still have people that dont have everything. Why?  Because people want and need more and more. Right now beggars live longer then Kings 1000 years ago.  There will never be that everyone will have everything because of finite resources. No matte of singularity and free energy. If I own land where s placed Eiffel tower then you cant own it also. Land will always be scarce.

I'm in favor of socialism because it makes society a much safer place.  If you eradicate poverty the crime rate would plummet.  There has been a lot of support for a universal basic income across the world, hopefully it will be implemented soon.

Socialist ideals for the common man are good, but in different countries and among different peoples, their customs and traditions, which can strongly contradict the socialist system of the state.

If we are talking about the economical reasons than capitalism will always triumph against socialism because there are people with different needs and different greeds and you can't just put that into a box and tell people to not get out of that.

Moreover, social democratic countries still are great, you can still have universal health care (almost all great countries have this, how come USA don't I don't know, should ask an american) but the problem with countries like USA is not the governmental approach but the regulations, they just allow companies to do whatever they want and than government becomes under the pressure.

For example in USA people are mad that government pays for the medical bills or not pay the medical bills, however in reality hospitals charge you 15 thousand dollars for a cavity in your tooth, first of all it doesn't cost that much, you should regulate that, if you regulate that than the bills will be really cheap and not a topic of discussion.

It would be helpful for this discussion if the OP could define which socialist countries they have in mind. Because after the cold war, the situation has changed dramatically.

For example, if you search "socialist countries" on google here's what comes up at the top:



Denmark, Ireland, Scandinavian countries, even Canada. As far as social benefits and living standard goes, these countries have already fulfilled many of the ideals of socialism.

I don't think we can categorise countries as being wholely capitalist or socialist. Least not countries such as the USA which you highlighted. Amazon, Google etc lend so much of their success to the socialistic aspects of the country. While capitalists may succeed purely because of their desire for more profit they need socialists to do so.

I don't think socialism is making those places better in any way, but they(some countries in Europe) have been wise enough to not mess too much with the free market economy. So those countries are still ok despite socialism.

Pretending to reward all human beings equal is unfair, every person have different capacities, intelligence and work ethic. It's unfair for the capable ones, the incompetents/lazy will always be thankful.

However, in the America's continent more precisely South America the socialists are only destroying the countries leaving the wealth in the hands of the corrupts and the others in equal level of misery. It seems that the problem of Latin America's dictators is that they never stop being greedy. In Venezuela, the price of $1 it's around 13.000.000.000Bs. Of course the dictators took zeros out of the currency in hopes people forget the real price of each dollar and how bad the devaluation is going.

The people in Nicaragua is seeing the situation getting bad also. Let's see what the guy in Mexico will do in some years.

It seems to depend in the geographical location of the leaders of such movements also, because with the exception of Spain - That people in Europe knows how better to not mess too much with the free market economy. Same in Asia.

What? NO! The bigger the country is, bigger is the number of people that will be unhappy. No country has the status that have most of their citizens covering their basic needs. VR isn't a great heartbreaking technology either.

I am brain dead, when it comes to socialism and capitalism. Let me refresh my brain and put my thoughts on the topic.

As practice has shown, the ideas of socialism are beautiful, but they were not real for our life. The socialist system too limited the freedom of every person, motivating it with the need for the needs of the whole society. In the name of a man in the USSR, millions of people were killed. The politicized society was not needed by a particular person. He just needs to raise wealth and enjoy the fruits of human thought and technical achievements. Therefore, in general, yes, the present society, which can hardly be called capitalistic, will largely solve the problems that were posed in a socialist society.

Socialist countries may have happier citizens because their basic needs are covered and they wouldn't starve if they're out of the job, but you don't see much innovation coming out of these countries. Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon-these are products of capitalism. People are abundantly awarded for their work because don't have to pay astronomical income taxes in capitalist countries.

The way I see it, this process is now on its way to making socialist values a reality. "Equality of the people" is among the most prioritized.

The latest technology being driven by financial gain seems to be AI and VR/AR technology. This will be the great equalizer of the people. Things will become much cheaper to produce, and once-exclusive experiences will be available to everyone for very cheap. All things are on their way to becoming accessible to all people in the developed world, due to the inherently low cost of digital assets.

Thoughts on this?