Carrying Hardware Wallets When Traveling Internationally

milewilda

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Quote from: Zanab247 on August 09, 2022, 12:50:09 PM

Quote

I don't think you need to carry a hardware wallet to travel. When you take an international trip, you carry your laptop and they don't ask you about bitcoin. Now you just need a smartphone to travel unrestricted and put your wallet in your cell phone, which is very simple.

Yes, it will help you to avoid so many negative things in the airport, because there are some countries who are not yet legalized Bitcoin in their countries which they will not like to see such things in someone laptop at the moment. Moving with your phone when embark on international trip is more comfortable than laptop because it will be very hard for the airport officials to see your wallet and the amount of coins inside your wallet without you telling them were your wallet is in your smartphone.

One of the benefits when you have crypto into your HW or even on your own mobile phone but cant we make out some questions or realizations
that we've been doing all of this for a while now considering that credit/debit cards had already long time existed? Yes, it does have limitations though not compared when you are
travelling but having those funds stored which involved millions (if you have) without putting yourself in risk because no one really knows that you do own or
bringing up that big amount. It would really be just common sense which you could really tell the difference among the two.

Zanab247

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Quote

I don't think you need to carry a hardware wallet to travel. When you take an international trip, you carry your laptop and they don't ask you about bitcoin. Now you just need a smartphone to travel unrestricted and put your wallet in your cell phone, which is very simple.

Yes, it will help you to avoid so many negative things in the airport, because there are some countries who are not yet legalized Bitcoin in their countries which they will not like to see such things in someone laptop at the moment. Moving with your phone when embark on international trip is more comfortable than laptop because it will be very hard for the airport officials to see your wallet and the amount of coins inside your wallet without you telling them were your wallet is in your smartphone.

jerry0

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How are most of you traveling then if you daytrade or do transactions then? I mean you have to bring your hardware wallet with you... but what about your seed?

hualangktsld841

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I don't think you need to carry a hardware wallet to travel. When you take an international trip, you carry your laptop and they don't ask you about bitcoin. Now you just need a smartphone to travel unrestricted and put your wallet in your cell phone, which is very simple.

crptomoon1001

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A new bill has been passed under the title "‘Combating Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing, and Counterfeiting Act of 2017’"

If this bill becomes a law, you will have to declare the cryptos while travelling IN and OUT of united states, else all cryptos could be seized.

#Merit

emath7

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Bitcoin and digital money values are variable assets. We all know. These assets are exhibited in stock markets. Bitcoin and digital money holders, if they have invested in the past, are now very lucky.
When you have a small number of assets, you can keep your assets in your online wallets. However, if the number of assets you have or the value of them increases, it is not safe in your online wallets. Blockchain wallets are safe. We can not argue this. If you protect the crypt, it's almost impossible to hack. But fraudsters will not try to break your ciphers. It tries to take over your cipher.
Now portable wallets are very popular. I think this should happen. Because it is safer to carry assets that are in portable electronic wallets instead of online ones.
There is another problem. Where should we keep these wallets. For if you lose, you will be lost in your possessions.

longwintershere

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

good point. I don't think you need to declare anything because you don't have any money with you even when cryptocurrencies would be considered as money. Ledger only stores your private keys, however the actual funds are always stored in blockchain.

Bestthefriend

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When I travel very far my hardware wallet and my laptop are two things I never forget to carry along with me as I want to be able to use my bitcoins at every opportunity.

KingFisher9

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I always travel with my Ledger Nano S and Laptop. You made an interesting point and I didnt declare the values. It is worth thinking of whether there is a need to declare.
I will think Bitcoin to be the same as gold chain, it has a value in fiat but not yet converted to fiat. I have been checked before when traveling out of my country with my bitcoin.

maaydin

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absolutely there is no need to declare it because we assume it as a credit card and even if you have millions deposited there you don`t have to declare it an d there is not any rule about it.

MakeMoneyBtc

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I personally dont travel a lot and when I do it I dont take any kind of bitcoin wallet with me. I dont see a reason why transporting bitcoin through a nano ledger/ trezor would cause you any problem since there are no specific laws saying this is restricted or not. And anyway I dont think many security guys from the airport knows about bitcoin.

I suggest all of you to check the laws of the airports and governments very carefully and see if they specify anything about transporting any kind of virtual money or I any other thing that could be related with bitcoin. You never know when a security guy could stop you,then confiscated you bitcoins. You can also ask at the airport if what you are doing if ok but I doubt they would have an answer because I dont think they know what bitcoin is so it will be ok.

darina yurgova

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now You can also earn on affiliate links and make profit from the contributions of other people

eaLiTy

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

I do not usually travel with my hardware wallet,but i carry my laptop with me all the time and i do have a few coins in my electrum wallet but there is no need for you to inform the authorities that you are holding any digital coins in the first place and when in the future if they ask and if i am going to say no,how on earth are they going to find out,unless i say other wise,so i do not think it will be a big deal and that is the beauty of bitcoin. Wink

ciciteng

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First, why the heck you are carrying around your HW wallet for traveling? I think it's too risky.
Why not just setup a desktop wallet or trusted online wallet and spare some BTC/ crypto over there for daily transaction that you might need a long the way? I think that will be more feasible.
Regarding (immigration) declaration, I think they never asked about that if you not really mention anything related to it. It's like normal account bank I think. How many that you have over there, as long as it's not cash, they never care.

Nkan25

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Watch for Homeland Security, they aren't shady, just incompetent. Don't even try to explain it to them, because they'll just assume its a threat and might possibly confiscate it. Yes, abuse of power in the name of security.

Yakapo

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Declaring your woth when entering some countries like the USA and the Netherlands, failure to which and its discovered that inaccurate information was offered could lead to consequences that might not be friendly

elizavetausova0112

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if quite simply Bitcoin is a digital currency that has increased recently by 8 times

entrepmind23

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There is no need to declare anything in my point of view unless you are carrying big amount of cash. Having coins in your wallet is like having money in your bank account and since there is no need for you to declare money in your account then you don't need to declare how much is the value of coins in your wallet. Besides, if the customs inspect your things, most likely they would not be able to recognize your hardware wallet since the shape is similar to USB so they would assume that it is just a USB. Anyway, when I travel internationally, a phone with coins will do for me in case I will be short with cash.

Anti-Cen

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High fees = low BTC price

The price of the Nano S has doubled in the last few months so they must be following the
BTC miners and keeping a low supply in order to push the price up.

Don't worry if you get mugged abroad, they only wanted the Nano and not your coins
held on it

Might get one myself when they are under $30 but just now it's like buying special
Tulip soil that will be dirt cheap again after a major blow-out

Philip K Crypt

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Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

This is obviously the safest option. But the problem is interesting from a theoretical point of view. As Bitcoins are not recognized as money, they should not be allowed to harass you. But I can imagine that in the USA you could get trouble all the same.

DARKANGEL6415

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I would never carry a hardware wallets as i have had things like computerd and old school vhs tapes get erased when passed through x ray scanners. I would just move what i think i would need to a xapo wallet. I am really not sure why you would carry it anyways. If you planning on using them why not just sell the coins to fiat and use that on the vacation?

Wasurod

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it will be great to Traveling Internationally with 200,000$ in your pocket.

bitcoin make paying easy, high security and mobility.

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

I still don't understand why some people use hardware wallets.
I have a laptop, a smartphone and an USB-key on my key-ring.

Nobody has ever asked me anything about BTC, at airports nor on the road. I don't count border crossings, but I've been in 14 different countries last year.

heringasem

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Yes, if you lose it, no one is going to have access to your wallet since you need the pin in order to access to it. So your funds are extremely safe unless that your pin is 1111...
But yes, i did it a few months ago when i went to the US.

chamoisgeks

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It is not necessary to declare the value in your Bitcoin whenever you travel since it is virtual. Although, if you are travelling, it is still safe to bring real cash in case you might need them.

AGD

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Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 15, 2017, 10:14:16 AM

Quote from: AGD on December 15, 2017, 09:03:25 AM

No dick contest, but simple facts. Send your encrypted wallet.dat to your own email address and feel free to do whatever you want. It is as secure as you want it to be and there will be no questions at all at any border.

I probably didn't express myself clearly enough. You're right, a sufficiently well-encrypted wallet.dat file is safe. But doing this alone is not a panacea to your security problems. And your assertion "there will be no questions at all at any border" is only speculation. If you're a European who's used to crossing European borders all the time then maybe you're right. Entering the US is a whole different matter and can be downright draconian. Making assumptions about US Customs is a big mistake.

Tell me what the US Customs would be able to do against that? Force you to reveal ALL of your emailadresses with passwords, because you COULD have a Bitcoin wallet in one of them? How would they do this? If they find a computer or storing device, they can do that, but without you carrying anything they will have a very hard time. It's just like forcing someone to reveal a possible existing Brainwallet. No chance, mate.

btcjoin14

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Quote from: PossibilityMiner on December 15, 2017, 01:06:42 PM

I would not carry a hardware wallet though customs for sure and wouldn't want to take it through security either. Who knows what some customs official or screener would make of it. These aren't exactly the best and brightest. I would (and have) however traveled with wallets encrypted on my phone or laptop.

If either is stolen or seized your cryptos are still safe behind encryption. Just make sure it is stout and resistant to sustained attack and obviously have backups at home. Most importantly all some official or screener would know is that you have something encrypted on your phone or laptop vs a hardware wallet that almost certainly contains crypto. Better seize that and make sure its not money laundering!

If they don't seize the hardware wallet then the person that owns the hardware wallet faces the risk of getting the information on that device deleted when it goes through an xray.

PossibilityMiner

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I would not carry a hardware wallet though customs for sure and wouldn't want to take it through security either. Who knows what some customs official or screener would make of it. These aren't exactly the best and brightest. I would (and have) however traveled with wallets encrypted on my phone or laptop.

If either is stolen or seized your cryptos are still safe behind encryption. Just make sure it is stout and resistant to sustained attack and obviously have backups at home. Most importantly all some official or screener would know is that you have something encrypted on your phone or laptop vs a hardware wallet that almost certainly contains crypto. Better seize that and make sure its not money laundering!

shezu007

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Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

Its very dangerous that carrying the hardware wallet when traveling internationally, because there is chance of the lost of your wallet and also there is chance that some body thief your wallet and you lost your all income in the wallet, Instead of it if you have crypto currency in your crypto wallet then the chance of the lost of the money and the chance of the thief of the money is go down to zero.

whisee

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Hardware wallet is amazing technology for who have more than 1 bitcoin

they can easy have more than 100,000$ with them daily without be worry

Gmk44

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Why would you have to declare it, the nano ledger s and/or trezor is giving you access to the blockchain where your coins are stored.
You don't need to declare the ammount of fiat you have in the bank because you can log into your bank via your laptop either.

mOgliE

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Hi,

Good question.
Indeed I have travelled a lot in my life (and will do it again I guess), but such concern never reached my mind..

I actually think this is not important... for the moment. Because currently, if you are asking what you carry it is to avoid carrying "real" money (thus preventing drug dealers and others to easily clean up their money abroad). As far as I know, for individuals travelling this is just a basic information asked to avoid big scams.

Don't worry about your bitcoin for now! (But if you have the legal answer to such question, I really am interesed!)

stevegee58

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Quote from: AGD on December 15, 2017, 09:03:25 AM

No dick contest, but simple facts. Send your encrypted wallet.dat to your own email address and feel free to do whatever you want. It is as secure as you want it to be and there will be no questions at all at any border.

I probably didn't express myself clearly enough. You're right, a sufficiently well-encrypted wallet.dat file is safe. But doing this alone is not a panacea to your security problems. And your assertion "there will be no questions at all at any border" is only speculation. If you're a European who's used to crossing European borders all the time then maybe you're right. Entering the US is a whole different matter and can be downright draconian. Making assumptions about US Customs is a big mistake.

Lipe490

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I'd rather having my wallet.dat or my private key in a secure cloud service encripted. I do not own a ledger nano and I would be paranoid in carrying it like I carry my mobile to wherever I went. I stake some coins in my laptop and I have access to it from my work desktop and I check it twice a day. Even if you take all the safe measures you think you are not protected from hackers, I understand your point.

AGD

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Keeper of the Private Key

buwaytress

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A lot of assumptions and a lot of suggestions. Probably the most important thing is to just practise good safety and security that you understand. Seen so many people already having problems using what they felt were secure options only to lose access because they didn't understand how to use/recover/restore.

If you're travelling and you need access to coins, then hardware isn't even the best option, I'd say. For coins I always use and need to be mobile, I use online services, as some people have also posted above. Yes, they're not that secure, yes, you still have to trust an intermediary, but for the convenience of access and low fees (someone said Polo only has 10k withdrawal fee, I also use similar services with standard low fees). They're easy to access, will save a lot in long term, and since I only risk a small amount, it's a risk I can live with.

For more significant amounts, for me that's in the thousands, simple seed can restore a wallet from anywhere I need to access them. Personally, hardware wallets are for permanent storage. Coins you want to hold and keep safe and secure, unlikely to be touched often. Why would you want to carry that around with you?

stevegee58

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Quote from: AGD on December 15, 2017, 03:18:07 AM

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:53:40 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:48:48 PM

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

Explain.

No problem. Your wallet.dat contains your secret keys. Your secret keys are the keys to your Bitcoin wealth and need to be protected. The best protection is a paper wallet or a whole-drive encrypted computer - preferably Linux.

If your wallet.dat file is sitting in your inbox on some server it is *extremely* vulnerable to being found and copied. Then it's game over.
You have absolutely no way of knowing how protected the mail server is or how honest the sysadmin is. It's a crap shoot.

How about encrypting the wallet with a strong password? You have so many posts, but you don't know, that you can protect your wallet with on board encryption, or if you want a second layer you put a GPG encryption on top. With that your knowledge EVERY of your wallets is at risk. You should immediately encrypt your wallet, because NOBODY will be able to take your Bitcoins then. Not even a sysadmin or a hacker or anybody else.
I can send you my filled wallet.dat and you will not be able to do more than 'view only'.

I can even post it here if you want. We can make a bet: If you can't get the private key of a wallet with 2 BTC within a certain time frame, you pay me 1 BTC. Deal?

Come now, let's not engage in personal attacks and dick measuring contests.

There are 2 main problems with the OP of this thread: Preventing your Bitcoin from being stolen and avoiding being detained at the border.
If you're looking for maximum security (and minimizing LE interaction) it's common knowledge that a layered approach is best:

Why are you carrying all your Bitcoin with you internationally? Are you planning on using it all? If you're planning on using *some* Bitcoin, only take as much with you as you need. Don't carry your entire hoard with you at all times.
Your main Bitcoin hoard should be stored in an offline wallet. If you think you might need to spend some of it, move some BTC to a hot wallet. If it's stolen (or seized) at least the damage is limited.
When you cross borders, especially into the US, you're subject to search. This includes your phone and computer and yes, you'll be required to unlock it for the officer to poke around. It's best to have *nothing* interesting on the phone/computer at all.
Of course you can store an encrypted wallet.dat on a cloud server. Is there evidence of your cloud storage on your compter? If so the customs officer could require you to open that and explain what's there. Yes, it sound unfair and a violation of your rights but almost anything goes at the border.
Do you know how you'll answer customs questions about how much money you're carrying, or if you have Bitcoin? Plausible deniability is the key. If you lie but there's a Bitcoin client on your computer then you could be held at the border. Better to have *nothing* that might raise questions on your computer and then deny all knowledge of Bitcoin. Do not underestimate customs officers. They are basically like police, trained to tell when people are honest, lying, or hiding something. If they can't figure out something on your computer and you're being evasive, you *will* be detained while an IT inspector is brought in to look at your computer.

AGD

legendary

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Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:53:40 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:48:48 PM

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

Explain.

No problem. Your wallet.dat contains your secret keys. Your secret keys are the keys to your Bitcoin wealth and need to be protected. The best protection is a paper wallet or a whole-drive encrypted computer - preferably Linux.

If your wallet.dat file is sitting in your inbox on some server it is *extremely* vulnerable to being found and copied. Then it's game over.
You have absolutely no way of knowing how protected the mail server is or how honest the sysadmin is. It's a crap shoot.

How about encrypting the wallet with a strong password? You have so many posts, but you don't know, that you can protect your wallet with on board encryption, or if you want a second layer you put a GPG encryption on top. With that your knowledge EVERY of your wallets is at risk. You should immediately encrypt your wallet, because NOBODY will be able to take your Bitcoins then. Not even a sysadmin or a hacker or anybody else.
I can send you my filled wallet.dat and you will not be able to do more than 'view only'.

I can even post it here if you want. We can make a bet: If you can't get the private key of a wallet with 2 BTC within a certain time frame, you pay me 1 BTC. Deal?

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

There's no legal precedent yet. Many people have taken the position that a bitcoin wallet doesn't establish possession of value (cash equivalent). Rather, that value is stored on the blockchain. What they possess is access to private keys that can move BTC on the blockchain.

It's a very interesting legal conundrum. A bitcoin address is not an "account" that is tied to a legal name or entity. For example, what happens if you hardware wallet has access to a private key that is also accessible by someone else? What if both of you are boarding the same flight? You can't both be carrying the USD cash equivalent of that BTC at the same time!

I'm sure that regulators will opine on this, though. The SEC recently said that cryptocurrency should be treated like cash, but that doesn't speak to this directly. In any case, I don't like to announce that I'm carrying cryptocurrency. Better to have an encrypted wallet on USB or something.

bitart

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Vires in Numeris

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:48:48 PM

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

Explain.

What about sending it in a password protected zip file with a really strong password? Using a really common file name like IMG_0001.zip? If sysadmin has luck and can spot that the zip file doesn't cointain a real picture but a wallet.dat, he won't be able to brute force the password soon. Just an idea

Decoded

legendary

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give me your cryptos

My Nano Ses have hundreds of thousands of dollars stored in it. Would I travel overseas with them? No.

What I would do is deposit say $2000 into Poloniex, trade a little there, but use that as a spending wallet overseas. You are never carrying anything with you that can be taken or siezed besides your login.

Plus, poloniex's withdrawal fees are only 0.0001 BTC.

stevegee58

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Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:48:48 PM

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

Explain.

No problem. Your wallet.dat contains your secret keys. Your secret keys are the keys to your Bitcoin wealth and need to be protected. The best protection is a paper wallet or a whole-drive encrypted computer - preferably Linux.

If your wallet.dat file is sitting in your inbox on some server it is *extremely* vulnerable to being found and copied. Then it's game over.
You have absolutely no way of knowing how protected the mail server is or how honest the sysadmin is. It's a crap shoot.

AGD

legendary

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Keeper of the Private Key

Quote from: stevegee58 on December 14, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

Explain.

Fancyax

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You don't have to declare that you have bitcoin on you because the laws still unclear. And you can avoid to carry a hardware wallet when you're travelling if there are potential risks, you can put a paper wallet in a book or just android wallet in you phone.

stevegee58

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Quote from: AGD on December 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

OMFG. What horrible advice.

AGD

legendary

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Keeper of the Private Key

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything

dothebeats

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To avoid the hassle or the uncertainties on carrying one, I just carry my phone with bitcoins around wherever I travel, especially when I know that I might need some extra cash. Sometimes when I go to Toronto in visiting my aunt, I bring that phone together with my cards just to be ready whenever there's something I need to buy. I understand that Trezor provides security and portability but the same thing goes to your mobile device--if handled with care--as well. The authorities on the airport won't question a Trezor since most of them don't even know what it does yet. It looks like a flash drive and acts like one so yeah, you're safe.

Beatcoin.it

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There's just one rule, dont lose the ledger. Just safe it on a small and safe bag locked and you are safe to keep it untouched. Remember you have the pin too.

IrenNTA

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I don't know how it's in America, but in Europe no one cares about hardware wallets. It the same as if you travel with a flesh drive. So it's safe until they'll learn how to regulate it.

FrueGreads

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I don't travel a lot, and I never thought about that, but that's a really good point. Right now, since there is no regulation regarding that, I guess you don't really have to say anything. I don't really think it's the same as walking with your credit or debit card, because that card only works as a way for you to access your bank account, and it identifies you, and a hard wallet does not. If you carry around the airport with large quantities of gold, you would have to declare it, but there is no way to tell how much you are carrying with your wallet.

On the other hand a hard wallet is a just a way to access your coins, and it doesn't control the amount you hold, and in this way, it's similar to a credit or debit card, so you could declare something, and then just receive more after that, so it would be impossible to keep track. I guess that even if they want to have some control, they won't be able to do it.

Omega Weapon

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

I do not know why you feel the need to risk it, bitcoin can be stored in a laptop, a hard drive, an usb or even as a paper wallet and if you do not want to use any medium like that you could remember the seed words from your wallet, if they ask you if you carry more than 10k in valuables then you can say no since you are actually not carrying anything with you since the seed words are in your brain.

Mr.Dick

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I think there is no need to tell about your bticoin hard wallet or the bitcoin on your laptop, it is not accepted as currency yet and i8t is (how could it be) not in cash: so I'd say hardware wallets are morlike your housekey, which does not mean you carry thze value of your house in cash.
But honestly it won't take long time until governments will also start thinking about your point...

Crypto Bloke

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You are only carrying 'code' on your person, not physical cash, or an asset such as gold. Asking you to declare any Bitcoin you own would be like asking you if you own any stocks/shares/bonds/savings, wouldn't it?

singlecrytpo

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Quote from: Iranus on December 14, 2017, 12:24:21 PM

The US government in particular has been known to be very shady about these things. Here's an example.

It might be a good idea to be paranoid crossing borders with hardware wallets - one good way to protect yourself would be to enable passphrase protection and put a smaller amount of your coins in a wallet with one passphrase, then a larger amount in a hidden wallet with a different passphrase.

If you're asked for whatever reason, you could (correctly) call it a banking device.

I agree. Be very careful when it comes to the US. I wouldn't carry a hardware wallet unless it was a trezor

Aura

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I don't think that customs get educated to recognize Bitcoin hardware wallets, nor do they care. Google's Chromecast or flashdrives don't look much different, they're not going to plug it in a computer to check whether you have enough Bitcoins to tax. Also if I worked as a customs agent and recognized your hardware wallet, I would have congratulate you with your ticket to the moon.

baradfo

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So instead of carrying a hardware wallet during travel, why not have an empty wallet on your phone or device. Have a desktop wallet that you can download, like electrum or Jaxx, to your laptop when you get to where you're going. So all you need to have on you is your seed phrase for the desktop wallet. That way, when stopped and if asked, you can declare that you don't have any coin on you since it resides on the blockchain. Once at your destination download the desktop wallet to access your coins and if you need the coins while mobile at your destination send the amount you need to the wallet on your phone. Put the unused coins back into the desktop wallet, delete the downloaded wallet from your desktop, and re-load once you get back to your original destination. That way you don't have coin "on your person" when asked.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Svelto on December 14, 2017, 11:31:09 AM

I will think Bitcoin to be the same as gold chain, it has a value in fiat but not yet converted to fiat. Hence I feel there is no need to declare.

I'm pretty sure customs would disagree with your reasoning. It can easily be used to buy illegal weapons or fund terrorism.
Of course, you could just as well reset the hardware wallet and just remember the recovery words. You can do that without hardware wallet too, 12 words in your mind is enough to carry millions of dollars now.

Quote from: gentlemand on December 14, 2017, 11:36:01 AM

If I was planning on accessing some while there I'd put a seed in a dark corner of an SD card somewhere and restore a phone wallet.

There's another reason why I wouldn't bring a hardware wallet: it shows you own enough funds to buy a hardware wallet, so you're a good target to get robbed (I don't have one, don't rob me Tongue

). A good old "your money or your life", and you'll most likely hand over your PIN.

Quote from: BingoDog on December 14, 2017, 11:38:02 AM

As far as I know this rule only applies if you carry cash in such amount or more then you have the obligation to declare, not credit cards or any other goods.

Credit cards are okay, because authorities can trace them. Bitcoin is a lot more like cash, it can't be traced, so customs will be very interested.

Quote from: joebrook on December 14, 2017, 01:30:33 PM

Though i haven't used any of the hardware wallets before, one stand the risk of losing their bitcoins once it gets missing.

That's why you have a recovery seed phrase.

ladadadiweliketoparty

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Quote from: secondgarlic on December 14, 2017, 02:01:59 PM

Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Maybe a sidebar, but if we're talking about short term travels here (1 week or so) why would you want to carry your hardware wallet around with you? The fear of somehow losing it would terrorize me and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the trip at all. Wouldn't it be best to keep the wallet locked up at home?

Exactly! I would be super paranoid about getting caught even though I haven't done anything wrong and that would show in my actions. As a result, I would be on edge the whole trip and would not be able to enjoy myself. I would always leave it at home and let the cryptos do what they will for that week. It isn't worth the risk of losing a potentially huge asset for something that is the cost of a trip.

secondgarlic

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Maybe a sidebar, but if we're talking about short term travels here (1 week or so) why would you want to carry your hardware wallet around with you? The fear of somehow losing it would terrorize me and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the trip at all. Wouldn't it be best to keep the wallet locked up at home?

joebrook

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 14, 2017, 11:01:02 AM

Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Though i haven't used any of the hardware wallets before, one stand the risk of losing their bitcoins once it gets missing. And with declaring how much you are carrying, i don't think it really matters especially since the government haven't made any laws making people declare the bitcoins they are holding when travelling.

Iranus

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The US government in particular has been known to be very shady about these things. Here's an example.

It might be a good idea to be paranoid crossing borders with hardware wallets - one good way to protect yourself would be to enable passphrase protection and put a smaller amount of your coins in a wallet with one passphrase, then a larger amount in a hidden wallet with a different passphrase.

If you're asked for whatever reason, you could (correctly) call it a banking device.

BingoDog

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As far as I know this rule only applies if you carry cash in such amount or more then you have the obligation to declare, not credit cards or any other goods. And since bitcoin is not regulated in every country on the same way or is not regulated at all what exactly would you declare.
On the other hand it's interesting point, I never thought of hard wallets that way.

gentlemand

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I've heard of some weird incidents in the past with TSA when they think you have 'the bitcoin' on you and started nosing. It's only a matter of time before someone's called out for carrying a hardware wallet even when they haven't done anything wrong and the law is completely unclear. A Ledger at least has more of a resemblance to a bog standard USB stick and I'd also be inclined to cover any branding with tape.

If I was going to the US particularly I wouldn't take one just in case. If I was planning on accessing some while there I'd put a seed in a dark corner of an SD card somewhere and restore a phone wallet.

Svelto

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I do travel with my Ledger Nano S (not in the box) and Laptop. You made an interesting point and I didnt declare the values. It is worth thinking of whether there is a need to declare.

I will think Bitcoin to be the same as gold chain, it has a value in fiat but not yet converted to fiat. Hence I feel there is no need to declare.

jerry0

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Are there many of you who travel internationally? If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people. But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well? If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset. But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it? Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?

Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor? But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different? And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Topic: Carrying Hardware Wallets When Traveling Internationally (Read 700 times)