Topic: Casinos can use AI to get additional edge? (Read 8354 times)

Quote from: GreatArkansas on July 10, 2019, 02:51:25 AM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

But we cannot deny with AI because the technology has already developed to better and I think in the future, AI will grow fast so it will help any industry including gambling industry to run a simple process. I think many gamblers will not have a problem if the gambling website has AI on their site to help them especially to handle the games. But yes, they need to try so hard to win and they need to make better strategy and of course, they still need to have the luck to win.

This is not something new in the market. We had the first casino which used AI to boost its business back in 2018. It has been a trend ever since and many casinos are making use of the great potential of AI to maximize their revenues and cut down costs. Since it could make the casino system a bit transparent, people are going to get involved in the adventure.

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On what like scenarios of gambling in casinos to use AI? Huh

Anyone can give it a scenario?
Like if you will play poker, your opponents are also human, right? Where they can use AI there?

Or maybe someone will use AI instead of a human to sit on the table? Something like that? If that so, that is really unfair, you are playing online with a computer without knowing it is really legit that they are not watching the whole game especially the cards.

AI can beat anyone on Earth in chess game, that's for sure, but with poker it is not so certain. I personally saw like a new poker site lost over 1 BTC because of using bots. Bots may be good against inexperienced poker players, but almost everyone who has played over 500 games will find a way to exploit it sooner or later.

And yet I agree with you that players should be warned that they are playing against a bot. The owner of the site I mentioned above was an honest guy, so he listed by name all the bots on his site.

GreatArkansas

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On what like scenarios of gambling in casinos to use AI? Huh

Anyone can give it a scenario?
Like if you will play poker, your opponents are also human, right? Where they can use AI there?

Or maybe someone will use AI instead of a human to sit on the table? Something like that? If that so, that is really unfair, you are playing online with a computer without knowing it is really legit that they are not watching the whole game especially the cards.

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My question is how exactly do you get to know that these Casinos are not really cheating?? I don't know what you believe but I still think that no matter what, these casinos will still be finding ways to put everything mostly in their favor so they wouldn't be the one losing the most. I don't think any of these casinos wants to end up going broke, cause you know for sure that if they do it is going to be an end of business for them and they are not going to be able to run their business any longer. So they will always do anything possible to remain in business. This is gambling, don't trust anyone.

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Quote from: romero121 on June 23, 2019, 03:45:22 PM

We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

A game is a game! No one can overpass it. That is why many people are losing streak in gambling. Because we don't know how a certain gambling works. But whatever does a gambling has, we cannot do anything just to depend to our own luck. We cannot blame the site because gambling will not say that they are cheating their users in order to prevent a lucky player that wins their games.

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Quote from: angel55 on July 08, 2019, 08:41:33 AM

Ai wont change the game odds but it will pick up on player's betting behaviors and the results can be used to have more effective advertising to bring in more customers.

Anyone remember Ocean's 13 and how they used AI to check if a player's win was legit or they were cheating.

This could be instrumental in Sin restoring the trust of many among us to get back to casinos and play a slightly fair game. I think that it could be implied in different possible ways. If it is used to ensure the transparency, I think the deployment of AI in the business will bring more money to the casino. In addition, it will make the process more easy and convenient.

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Quote from: michellee on July 08, 2019, 08:22:38 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on July 08, 2019, 03:46:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

I think the casino will do something to prevent the gambler gets more winning. They will modify the AI to work as they want so they can control the game, and they still take the profit. Maybe we don't know how they can do that, but I believe that when it comes for the profit, the casino will do what they need to take a big profit in the short term or long term. The AI system will help the casino and the owner and make their work simple than before.

OMG, can't you read? Do you know, what does "provably fair" mean in gambling? Please do at least some research on the matter, you will not regret it, I promise. Because currently you sound not like someone who has spent almost 3 years on bitcointalk discussing crypto gambling, but rather like a character from a movie about 19th century gambling.

In short, in a provably fair casino a player can know for sure, with the power of math, that the results were not rigged. That's a great achievement, and it's a pity that not all gamblers are aware of it yet.

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Quote from: virtualx on July 08, 2019, 01:00:23 PM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

But we cannot deny with AI because the technology has already developed to better and I think in the future, AI will grow fast so it will help any industry including gambling industry to run a simple process. I think many gamblers will not have a problem if the gambling website has AI on their site to help them especially to handle the games. But yes, they need to try so hard to win and they need to make better strategy and of course, they still need to have the luck to win.

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on July 06, 2019, 02:52:07 PM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Exactly my thoughts and I see no need to bring in A.i. For an advantage because the house always wins most often. Imagine a regular gambler going up against an A.i knowing at every turn he Wil be beaten or will loose. It won't be great for the industry's overall progress because many will backoff totally.

shield132

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And what about if we use artificial intelligence against casinos? Will we beat them? Or it's just matter of task whether our AI beat their AI? No, there is no need of implementing artificial intelligence for casinos in order to make better profit. At first it will be 100% shown that you always lose on one casino which uses AI and have better chances on another which doesn't use AI, it automatically decreases trust of AI used casino. On another hand there is no need of AI because mathematically chances of casinos are always high and games are built that way, that's the reason why there is always house edge.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 01:15:08 PM

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I agree with the logic you used here - "it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated." With AI, the difficulty bar is raised higher, so you have a lot of catching up to do. You will feel disappointed because it is like you have no way of winning the game. So what would be your reaction if you learned that particular casino is using AI? For me, I won't play anymore on that site. Better give at least a good chance of winning to your players. Do not be so greedy!

That's what I imagine a smart casino would do. Just mid-level difficulty on AIs. It's already a game of chance anyway so people would still be losing money. Not to mention they also earn a lot (probably more) from purely chance based games like slots.

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Ai wont change the game odds but it will pick up on player's betting behaviors and the results can be used to have more effective advertising to bring in more customers.

Anyone remember Ocean's 13 and how they used AI to check if a player's win was legit or they were cheating.

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Quote from: Betwrong on July 08, 2019, 03:46:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

I think the casino will do something to prevent the gambler gets more winning. They will modify the AI to work as they want so they can control the game, and they still take the profit. Maybe we don't know how they can do that, but I believe that when it comes for the profit, the casino will do what they need to take a big profit in the short term or long term. The AI system will help the casino and the owner and make their work simple than before.

Betwrong

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Quote from: ?? on ??

~
If you weigh actual and digital casinos, definitely the latter is easier to manipulate especially with ai. These are computer programs that run online and digital casinos, so it's silly to expect that they can't be controlled. Though the risks to the gamblers are pretty similar because ai is mostly used to make profit for owners. The gamblers still lose money.

That's what most regular people think of online casinos, but, in fact, this is not the case from quite some time. You see, it's useless to have an AI which is analyzing users' behavior and can predict the next moves when you can't actually affect the outcome in any way. Because of the provably fair system casinos do not control the outcomes, period. What's the point of having an AI on your site if you can't affect the outcomes?

jademaxsuy

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well AI is the common to betting platform but it could not be controlled by anyone else or manipulate the results. You see that therr are individuals winning in the betting process.

Try 777coin bitcoin casino and test your skills and win the games.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

If AI can apply in real world gambling in which physical is in approach so what more in online gaming in which the program is involve?yeah 100% AI is in play for casinos to get more edge

In this random numbers involving it is. MOre easy to apply artificial intelligence to beat the players and the house to succeed

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 01:15:08 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I agree with the logic you used here - "it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated." With AI, the difficulty bar is raised higher, so you have a lot of catching up to do. You will feel disappointed because it is like you have no way of winning the game. So what would be your reaction if you learned that particular casino is using AI? For me, I won't play anymore on that site. Better give at least a good chance of winning to your players. Do not be so greedy!

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on July 01, 2019, 05:38:20 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 01, 2019, 12:14:13 PM

Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

thats totally overkill! ripping the money of the gamblers at its best!
should be discreet otherwise, their area will be like a hunted one!

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can be used in order to provide benefits to the gamblers too. It is not that only the gambling casino can take benefit from AI.
By using Artificial intelligence online gambling can be made more interactive and user friendly.

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Quote from: yvesp110 on July 04, 2019, 06:00:46 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 01:15:08 PM

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I understand your point here. But it is never going to happen because this will cost a casino all its users. You just cannot win from AI if it’s on the other end of the table. Better go through the story of world champion Lee Sedol and vs. the AI robots AlphaGo and you will be surprised to know that the world champion could not win from the AL robot. So the casinos will not do that but can make use of AI in other different activities.

That's what I suggested they could attempt to do. Let's say there's only 1 human on a table, they can have the AIs on various difficulty levels that makes it not impossible for the human to win. Basically like playing Poker Superstars, it can still be an enjoyable game and the human might not notice.

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Quote from: klaaas on July 05, 2019, 05:25:31 PM

Quote from: adzino on July 05, 2019, 04:36:26 PM

No, I don't think any casino would or could do that. Not even sure how would that even work. Even if it worked, people will eventually realize this since they will notice that every large bet they place is a bet they lose.

Indeed it would be complicated. There are much easier ways to tamper on the backend if a casino want to use rogue tactics on there players.

No, I don't think so because if they can have a good team to manage the website and they have the skill to integrate their system with the AI, I think that will not impossible. That will help them to set everything to run by itself and they only need to monitor the system and if something wrong is happening, the AI will tell them so they can immediately fix that.

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Quote from: klaaas on July 05, 2019, 05:25:31 PM

Quote from: adzino on July 05, 2019, 04:36:26 PM

No, I don't think any casino would or could do that. Not even sure how would that even work. Even if it worked, people will eventually realize this since they will notice that every large bet they place is a bet they lose.

Indeed it would be complicated. There are much easier ways to tamper on the backend if a casino want to use rogue tactics on there players.

No its not complicated and its not also impossible for a casino site to use a.i and other systems just to make more money out of thier costumers . will not notice it especially if we are not techy enough because the site is composes by codes and other deep techy stuffs but i think honest casinos wont really use those things because they only want to be fair . they knew that thier costumers will comeback if the costumers are happy and satisfied from their experience .

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Quote from: Zicadis on June 27, 2019, 06:46:35 AM

Quote from: adzino on July 05, 2019, 04:36:26 PM

~They say AI can beat any player in poker, but I personally doubt it, and it would be very interesting to try to play poker with such a bot.

If the AI can destroy players at a game like Dota, why wouldn't it completely annihilate humans at a much simpler game, like Poker?
~

Maybe because poker is not a simpler game, or, I'd rather say, it's not a simpler game for computer. Bluffing may seem irrational from a computer's point of view, and the machine will perform it only if programmed to do so. But what a self-learning bot will be doing after several terrible outcomes of bluffing? Right, it will stop bluffing. But every good poker player knows that you can't win without bluffing in the long run.

OpenAI's Dota 2 bot defeated over 99% of all challengers, and they where one of the best pro players around. There are no doubts that AI can beat anyone in Dota in the end.

In January 2017 an AI called LIBRATUS beat 4 pro poker players after playing 120k games, and then later another AI, DEEPSTACK, beat 10 out of 11 expert human players after playing 45k games. And yet I think it is much less certain that an AI can beat a good poker player than that of Dota. There are more unique situations in a game of Texas No-Limit Hold'em than there are atoms in the Universe. There are 10 to the power of 160 outcomes for each game. There is no way even the most powerful computers could actually consider all of those possibilities, but even if they could, they would never know for certain whether an opponent is bluffing or not.

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No, I don't think any casino would or could do that. Not even sure how would that even work. Even if it worked, people will eventually realize this since they will notice that every large bet they place is a bet they lose.

Indeed it would be complicated. There are much easier ways to tamper on the backend if a casino want to use rogue tactics on there players.

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No, I don't think any casino would or could do that. Not even sure how would that would work. Even if it worked, people will eventually realize this since they will notice that every large bet they place is a bet they lose. It takes just few seconds for a serious gambler to know if a casino is rigged or not. And yeah, people can easily abuse this system once they get to know how the system works.

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Quote from: Nalbo on July 03, 2019, 06:30:49 AM

I believe most of the Casinos do have a player on the board. Be it an AI or a real person from the casino. As we don't know the identity of the person with the username, it could be anything. Casinos would have an unfair advantage if they place their person to play with their money as they can have stack of any money.

yes, I also assume that most casinos will definitely place their players to play, so that profits do not fully fall on gamblers but can return to site owners so they don't easily lose the capital they have spent and this method is so effective that casino sites can survive long

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 01:15:08 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

I understand your point here. But it is never going to happen because this will cost a casino all its users. You just cannot win from AI if it’s on the other end of the table. Better go through the story of world champion Lee Sedol and vs. the AI robots AlphaGo and you will be surprised to know that the world champion could not win from the AL robot. So the casinos will not do that but can make use of AI in other different activities.

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Rather than integrating Artificial Intelligence it is good to rewrite the script in such a way to get additional edge when there is continuous winning streak with the user. The same is being done through the integration of artificial intelligence where the game will be observed and based on the winning it gets back an added house edge and will be fair.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 04, 2019, 01:15:08 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

Even there was a sign of AI on Truman Show and experienced gamblers can get the point if such case ever happens in any site. Virtual places can be manipulated easily with the help of various scripts, so there is no 100% trust. Audits even can be subject to the corruption and bribery facts are hidden. Only big ones are leaked to the media IMO.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

You have a point. The thing is, with gamblers they prefer to have another person playing in the same table. If the casino put an AI in there instead, it'll be like a noob playing chess on max difficulty - you'd feel very frustrated.

If it is known that an online casino used an AI, that could destroy the players' trust. How sure would they that not all "players" are AI and these are putting an act? After all, it's all virtual, you can't confirm who those are. It'll be like the Truman Show except with AIs.

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I believe most of the Casinos do have a player on the board. Be it an AI or a real person from the casino. As we don't know the identity of the person with the username, it could be anything. Casinos would have an unfair advantage if they place their person to play with their money as they can have stack of any money.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 02, 2019, 10:13:10 AM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on July 01, 2019, 05:38:20 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 01, 2019, 12:14:13 PM

Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

thats totally overkill! ripping the money of the gamblers at its best!
should be discreet otherwise, their area will be like a hunted one!

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

AI can enable companies and enterprises around the world to cut down costs and maximize profits. There have been so many applications and software that help in the business activities and companies like Microsoft, Facebook and the leading firms in the financial sector have been making their millions this way. So it is not possible to make superprofits in the current era without making use of AI.

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Quote from: AmoreJaz on July 01, 2019, 05:38:20 PM

Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 01, 2019, 12:14:13 PM

Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

thats totally overkill! ripping the money of the gamblers at its best!
should be discreet otherwise, their area will be like a hunted one!

Exactly. I don't know much about probability but it is said that the slots in physical casinos have their chances set so that every now and then one would give a payout, to encourage those in other slots to continue. Of course it's different with card games but if they want it to be realistic, they'd have to throw in a few "errors" in to make the AI realistic.

If people feel they don't have the slightest chance of winning (though to be fair they really don't have much to begin with), they won't play.

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Quote from: goaldigger on June 28, 2019, 03:56:45 AM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

This explains why there are a phenomena called beginners luck which i suppose that AI makes to make the player hooked and play in a long time. This actually some codes or systems embeded into game particularly to control the ins and outs of the gambling slots. The AI decides the winning combination depending on the money you put or some reasons.

Well, casinos do have codes or programs set up when a gambler plays but I don't think adding an AI would be necessary since with the present codes they have, the longer the gambler plays the closer it is to their house edge meaning a chance that the gambler will lose. I don't know if you have noticed that most of the time a new gambler plays, normally wins in the first few games but once he is hooked up and try to play longer they lose so that is why I think casinos will no longer go that extra mile just to rip people off.

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Quote from: TheCoinGrabber on July 01, 2019, 12:14:13 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

I remember the funniest line in my country when they lose.
"If they lose, the game is cheater. If they win, the game is so amazing!"

Doubting is good because it is just proving that we are an observer. But always doubting and blaming others to your loss is not anymore good. If you always blame the AI or gambling site itself, then quit gambling. Instead, pay attention to the one that you don't know a cheater.

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Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

thats totally overkill! ripping the money of the gamblers at its best!
should be discreet otherwise, their area will be like a hunted one!

Quote from: Zicadis on July 01, 2019, 03:38:38 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

DataRobot, Optimove , IKASI are just some of the names that are already using AI to get an edge over their competetion. Read this article here that explains more about what's happening in this space: https://www.axios.com/casinos-gambling-ai-marketing-addiction-0f01b612-7384-4875-a61e-f35684804239.html

for casinos who are already utilising AI, i guess they will not disclose it to their players. because this will prompt the gamblers not to play with them anymore.
at least give them the chance to win. dont be greedy!

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Quote from: davis196 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:33 AM

You know the saying "The casino always wins."With or without AI and random number generation algorithms,the casinos will win 99,99% of the time.

Casinos where no one will win are not the ones you want to play. The gains for the house [besides the bet sizes] are the amount of losing bets thus the amount of users playing.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

DataRobot, Optimove , IKASI are just some of the names that are already using AI to get an edge over their competetion. Read this article here that explains more about what's happening in this space: https://www.axios.com/casinos-gambling-ai-marketing-addiction-0f01b612-7384-4875-a61e-f35684804239.html

TheCoinGrabber

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Not only is the AI going to attempt to guess your moves, it's also way better at calculating the odds than you so yes, it'll definitely put the human player at a disadvantage. Seems like an overkill but I can see them attempting to use this in such a way that it wouldn't be obvious.

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Quote from: davis196 on July 01, 2019, 01:20:33 AM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

You know the saying "The casino always wins."With or without AI and random number generation algorithms,the casinos will win 99,99% of the time.The important question here is,can a gambler develop an AI or algorithm that can predict random numbers and beat the casino.

Exactly, they don't have to watch the players play the game, and in the end, the casino will get all of the money. That will help them to reduce their work in the casino, and they can do another thing to promote and attract more players. Maybe the gamblers will develop the AI or algorithm that will help them to beat the house, but the casino will prevent that thing so the casino will still take the money.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

You know the saying "The casino always wins."With or without AI and random number generation algorithms,the casinos will win 99,99% of the time.The important question here is,can a gambler develop an AI or algorithm that can predict random numbers and beat the casino.

STT

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Quote

This explains why there are a phenomena called beginners luck which i suppose that AI makes to make the player hooked and play in a long time.

They arent organising false games, that would not be AI especially just unfair and manipulative with false accounting given for open game factors. Beginners luck is better explained by somehow receives some good luck but presumes it might continue from lack of experience where as a player who has lost plenty would know better and possible take some or all of the winnings off the table. The experience can be a negative as removing all winnings reduces the streak continuing where as blind luck helps the person who beats the odds and has no idea they are being so brave to continue the risk.
Always take back your initial stake so you can play again, very much basic and then past that take more if you have been lucky especially as it wont be repeated often

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AI reacting in user's game is just normal. But, the computer will not dictate on someone like controlling the results so as to give the computer an attention for the users to get the mindset to always believe i. believe cryptocurrency should never

so as giving them also

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 23, 2019, 05:16:57 PM

I did observed some games like roulette wherein it looks like the casinos or maybe AI, when they see the pattern of your bets, you won't see success as it used to be. Of course there is almost the edge, but I don't know, see this many times when I'm playing that's why when I had a good run I will simply stop. At least I have won a few and move on the next game.

Yeah your right great ideas and decisions, if you are already won even if small amount you should stop because casino really use AI it's hard to predict the next streak bet if you gonna win or lose. Some advise control yourself in gambling play for just having fun do not play gambling if are not ready to lose funds and do not treat gambling as source of income.

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Quote from: akram143 on June 27, 2019, 03:30:33 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

when Technology developed it is also one of the good factor for the development of any field if the gambling field accept the technology as an addition then it will be giving fun and extra involvement with the attraction of the the gambling very easily so that it will be acceptable for everyone.

Artificial Intelligence should be used in gambling sites and casino. This will give many new interactive and extra features which gamblers will enjoy.
AI can also be used to target different players with different types of games based upon their interests and past habits.

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 28, 2019, 08:11:15 AM

Quote from: seleme on June 27, 2019, 02:56:49 PM

I think the widely used face detecting technology can help casinos staff to detect the cheaters among local visitors and prevent their entrance to the casino. The AI based casino management will not be successful in online sphere due to the obvious reasons. The house always wins, why to combine this edge with something that has not proven yet..

LOL That face detecting technology should have been widely used in many places not just casinos but airports and crowded places to detect which people in the crowd that is most likely to commit crime. I think it can be used in mobile phones too, gamblers playing in btc casino app will ask to approve access to camera of the gamblers for face checking.

AI could be used in many different place as it depends on the kind of artificially designed software. For airports, it is already installed in mega airports like Dubai Airport and maybe in the US I am not sure about that. When it comes to the implications of AI in the business world, you could very easily make use of AI to boost your business and reach as many costumer in seconds so yes, it could improve the gambling market.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on June 23, 2019, 05:16:57 PM

I did observed some games like roulette wherein it looks like the casinos or maybe AI, when they see the pattern of your bets, you won't see success as it used to be. Of course there is almost the edge, but I don't know, see this many times when I'm playing that's why when I had a good run I will simply stop. At least I have won a few and move on the next game.

I also notice that new forms of gambling relies on numbers and code such as roll and the times we would won on a bet game. It it very noticeable that online gambling also provides auto bet that has an intent to create a bet automatically in a choice to navigate the game easily in a way we could just watch and stop when we want to.

bittraffic

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Quote from: seleme on June 27, 2019, 02:56:49 PM

I think the widely used face detecting technology can help casinos staff to detect the cheaters among local visitors and prevent their entrance to the casino. The AI based casino management will not be successful in online sphere due to the obvious reasons. The house always wins, why to combine this edge with something that has not proven yet..

LOL That face detecting technology should have been widely used in many places not just casinos but airports and crowded places to detect which people in the crowd that is most likely to commit crime. I think it can be used in mobile phones too, gamblers playing in btc casino app will ask to approve access to camera of the gamblers for face checking.

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Quote from: tippytoes on June 28, 2019, 02:47:25 AM

Quote from: crwth on June 25, 2019, 08:00:14 PM

~snip

If type 2 AI is to be implemented in gambling casinos - combination of limited memory and theory of mind, that would really be scary. Gambler might not have the chance to win anymore. Before, everyone has the slim chance of winning, now with that combination, I don't think a gambler will ever win. But the question is, how much data and how long does it needs to collect data from the player to be considered that it acquired the necessary information to get the full grasp of the player's behaviour?

I do think it would be like a game changer but the fact that something like that is still not out yet in public OR probably it's in a development process that is still top secret. We will never know until we find out. I'm curious with the matter of AI and is part of a group that explores something related to that but not to gambling. Maybe you could call it gambling but it's in trading. Lol.

And I think you got it all wrong with the purpose of the AI. It's for improving your chances in winning. The player would use the AI to somehow predict the best probability of winning in a certain round or the game itself. Not the other way around. If the house uses that, they would have more advantage than ever.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

This explains why there are a phenomena called beginners luck which i suppose that AI makes to make the player hooked and play in a long time. This actually some codes or systems embeded into game particularly to control the ins and outs of the gambling slots. The AI decides the winning combination depending on the money you put or some reasons.

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whirlcoin

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

it is also important when we are doing something we also expect some new features to be add on in everything especially in gambling we need to be entertained then only it will be addictive attractive for the next time so this is also like that.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

when Technology developed it is also one of the good factor for the development of any field if the gambling field accept the technology as an addition then it will be giving fun and extra involvement with the attraction of the the gambling very easily so that it will be acceptable for everyone.

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I think the widely used face detecting technology can help casinos staff to detect the cheaters among local visitors and prevent their entrance to the casino. The AI based casino management will not be successful in online sphere due to the obvious reasons. The house always wins, why to combine this edge with something that has not proven yet..

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 27, 2019, 08:42:43 AM

Okay so we are promoting them in our signatures but majority of us doesn't believe they are doing fair on their system. Does that sound right?
I seriously think of promoting something else now like a project doing IEO than the gambling site I kept playing on.

Quote from: Zicadis on June 27, 2019, 06:46:35 AM

Quote from: mu_enrico on June 27, 2019, 03:07:44 AM

~
If OpenAI can beat Dendi, pretty sure it can eliminate 99% of human out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4-wvhgx0w
~

I don't play Dota, so the only thing I can see from this video is that AI(Bot) is beating the human player. And the human is not just a player, but he's one of the best in the field, as far as I understand.

OpenAI (Bot) was given the same algorithm as to Google’s AI that beat the world’s best ‘Go’ player: it wasn't provided with any strategies, nor has it learned from human experts, it was playing with itself from the very beginning and making small improvements, step by step, has has become the best player in the world.

They say AI can beat any player in poker, but I personally doubt it, and it would be very interesting to try to play poker with such a bot.

If the AI can destroy players at a game like Dota, why wouldn't it completely annihilate humans at a much simpler game, like Poker?

Sure, it might not be able to interpret tells and other signs of deception, but purely playing it by the numbers should allow it to beat pretty much any professional over the long run.

I can't imagine how heavily coded the AI in that case but even so, it beat a human? Why can't they do a robot for that to attack terrorist.

So we have many application of artificially designed intelligent robots and software that have been helping so much in the business. Couple of days ago I visited Proctor&Gamble’s website and I saw an option for online chat. I though it is a correspondent but it was mid night and correspondents usually do not job at such times. Later I found it is their AI software that helps you with stuff. This is the reason why so many people love P&G and AI.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

If this is already been done wouldn't it be reasonable to use brand new accounts for every bet? It is actually possible that the big casinos have a way of making rough estimates of gamblers next moves

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The casino business already pulls in billions every year, how much more of an edge do they need? They already have one of the best business models where people basically just hand over there money to them. AI will change a lot of things but I don't see it having a big affect on gambling.

bittraffic

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Okay so we are promoting them in our signatures but majority of us doesn't believe they are doing fair on their system. Does that sound right?
I seriously think of promoting something else now like a project doing IEO than the gambling site I kept playing on.

Quote from: Zicadis on June 27, 2019, 06:46:35 AM

Quote from: mu_enrico on June 27, 2019, 03:07:44 AM

~
If OpenAI can beat Dendi, pretty sure it can eliminate 99% of human out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4-wvhgx0w
~

I don't play Dota, so the only thing I can see from this video is that AI(Bot) is beating the human player. And the human is not just a player, but he's one of the best in the field, as far as I understand.

OpenAI (Bot) was given the same algorithm as to Google’s AI that beat the world’s best ‘Go’ player: it wasn't provided with any strategies, nor has it learned from human experts, it was playing with itself from the very beginning and making small improvements, step by step, has has become the best player in the world.

They say AI can beat any player in poker, but I personally doubt it, and it would be very interesting to try to play poker with such a bot.

If the AI can destroy players at a game like Dota, why wouldn't it completely annihilate humans at a much simpler game, like Poker?

Sure, it might not be able to interpret tells and other signs of deception, but purely playing it by the numbers should allow it to beat pretty much any professional over the long run.

I can't imagine how heavily coded the AI in that case but even so, it beat a human? Why can't they do a robot for that to attack terrorist.

Zicadis

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Quote from: mu_enrico on June 27, 2019, 03:07:44 AM

~
If OpenAI can beat Dendi, pretty sure it can eliminate 99% of human out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4-wvhgx0w
~

I don't play Dota, so the only thing I can see from this video is that AI(Bot) is beating the human player. And the human is not just a player, but he's one of the best in the field, as far as I understand.

OpenAI (Bot) was given the same algorithm as to Google’s AI that beat the world’s best ‘Go’ player: it wasn't provided with any strategies, nor has it learned from human experts, it was playing with itself from the very beginning and making small improvements, step by step, has has become the best player in the world.

They say AI can beat any player in poker, but I personally doubt it, and it would be very interesting to try to play poker with such a bot.

If the AI can destroy players at a game like Dota, why wouldn't it completely annihilate humans at a much simpler game, like Poker?

Sure, it might not be able to interpret tells and other signs of deception, but purely playing it by the numbers should allow it to beat pretty much any professional over the long run.

Betwrong

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Quote from: mu_enrico on June 27, 2019, 03:07:44 AM

~
If OpenAI can beat Dendi, pretty sure it can eliminate 99% of human out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4-wvhgx0w
~

I don't play Dota, so the only thing I can see from this video is that AI(Bot) is beating the human player. And the human is not just a player, but he's one of the best in the field, as far as I understand.

OpenAI (Bot) was given the same algorithm as to Google’s AI that beat the world’s best ‘Go’ player: it wasn't provided with any strategies, nor has it learned from human experts, it was playing with itself from the very beginning and making small improvements, step by step, has has become the best player in the world.

They say AI can beat any player in poker, but I personally doubt it, and it would be very interesting to try to play poker with such a bot.

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Quote from: imstillthebest on June 27, 2019, 02:06:11 AM

you mean the ai enemies on dota ? lol you gotta be kidding me , you must be a kid because you can be easily beaten by an a.i , we humans have real brains and we are smarter than them . the same thing can be applied on gambling based a.i's or on any other a.i's out there .

With that kind of attitude, you will never grow up boi. Do some research first, please. If OpenAI can beat Dendi, pretty sure it can eliminate 99% of human out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4-wvhgx0w
Don't be so salty out there boi.

Quote from: imstillthebest on June 27, 2019, 02:06:11 AM

you quit stock trading for that reason but you join crypto trading and you are not aware that there are also a.i and bots that manipulate the crypto market .

Who said I'm a crypto trader boi? Who said I'm not aware of that?
AFAIK a trader is not a person who occasionally convert random tokens from a signature campaign into Bitcoin.

Be more constructive or simply don't post boi.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on June 27, 2019, 12:44:23 AM

I'm not a fan of AI for gambling (as a player). Seriously, if AI can be as good as OpenAI (DOTA 2), then it will only scare gamblers away. I would rather bet against random luck than strong AI.

you mean the ai enemies on dota ? lol you gotta be kidding me , you must be a kid because you can be easily beaten by an a.i , we humans have real brains and we are smarter than them . the same thing can be applied on gambling based a.i's or on any other a.i's out there .

Quote

I used to be a stock trader, but I quit once I saw how big players use supercomputers + AI to trade.

you quit stock trading for that reason but you join crypto trading and you are not aware that there are also a.i and bots that manipulate the crypto market .

FanEagle

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Quote from: electronicash on June 25, 2019, 10:37:06 PM

the house always win, it has to be that way or we don't have a platform to gamble. sonit best to side with them when they offer something like revenue sharing than rely on winning bets. this is the reason i only bet on sports since they can't manipulate results to it. dice and roullets is just not the type of game you can consider fair even when the codes are shared.

I don’t believe there’s any site that cannot be manipulated, sport bet is no exemption but they have tried to make theirs really transparent which is very good. I have come to the acceptance that casinos are designed to always be in their favor and there’s nothing we can do about this. It’s just so bad that dice are roulette are the leaders in this pattern of manipulation

Let’s just be hopeful that things would change with time and casino edge can now be 50/50 but for now, we do all we can to secure our little win and having fun with the games. Even the AI are not working properly as we want it to be, I believe it need to be upgraded and in years to come better than it is at the moment.

mu_enrico

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I'm not a fan of AI for gambling (as a player). Seriously, if AI can be as good as OpenAI (DOTA 2), then it will only scare gamblers away. I would rather bet against random luck than strong AI.

I used to be a stock trader, but I quit once I saw how big players use supercomputers + AI to trade.

DarkDays

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Nobody would use a casino that is using an artificial intelligence to cheat them out of their money.

If it's a game of skill, then nobody would be stupid enough to go up against an A.I. They've been shown to beat humans at even complex games like DOTA 2 and Go, so why would we be able to win on simple games usually available at casinos?

That being said, I wouldn't want seeing something like this for sports betting, e.g. wagering who will win, and A.I. vs a pro sports team in a competitive game. However, unless it's a shooter, we don't really have much of a chance.

Betwrong

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Quote from: Vaculin on June 25, 2019, 10:44:51 PM

Quote from: electronicash on June 25, 2019, 10:37:06 PM

the house always win, it has to be that way or we don't have a platform to gamble. sonit best to side with them when they offer something like revenue sharing than rely on winning bets. this is the reason i only bet on sports since they can't manipulate results to it. dice and roullets is just not the type of game you can consider fair even when the codes are shared.

I don't think they'll manipulate the result, they already have that house edge so they'll eventually win.
Manipulating results will make their site bad and I guess the reason why more people are still gambling in games where there's a house edge like dice is because they believe they are provably fair.
~

Not only they believe it, but they can check it via a third-party site, or even check that themselves on an offline computer if they are too paranoid

. I have long not been surprised by the fact that most ordinary people don't understand how provably fair works, and thus they think that gambling sites manipulate the outcomes. But I never cease to be surprised by such posts here. Google "how provably fair works" and choose the explanation that suits you in order to not act like flat-earthers anymore.

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Quote from: electronicash on June 25, 2019, 10:37:06 PM

the house always win, it has to be that way or we don't have a platform to gamble. sonit best to side with them when they offer something like revenue sharing than rely on winning bets. this is the reason i only bet on sports since they can't manipulate results to it. dice and roullets is just not the type of game you can consider fair even when the codes are shared.

I don't think they'll manipulate the result, they already have that house edge so they'll eventually win.
Manipulating results will make their site bad and I guess the reason why more people are still gambling in games where there's a house edge like dice is because they believe they are provably fair.

Well, sports is no doubt a good kind of gambling game, I am also seeing a dice sites now that are integrating sports in their service, they see the demand so they are doing it.

electronicash

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the house always win, it has to be that way or we don't have a platform to gamble. sonit best to side with them when they offer something like revenue sharing than rely on winning bets. this is the reason i only bet on sports since they can't manipulate results to it. dice and roullets is just not the type of game you can consider fair even when the codes are shared.

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Quote from: shoreno on June 25, 2019, 08:26:22 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

not all gambling are based on generating random numbers . what card games like poker ? that is an example of skill based and you are using a card not numbers . there is not right or wrong in generating a number because that is random but i think we it comes to solving something , ai or bots can work well versus humans .

When you play online poker, I think the calculations are using computation from the script, and if AI has replaced the computation system, I think they could use AI for the calculations. The player still using their skills to play poker but the opponent, which is the house, they could use AI to play for them.

Quote from: shoreno on June 25, 2019, 08:26:22 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly.

they can observe your bets but they cant predict your next bets not unless if they are not fair . also not all gambling game is in versus mode ( dice game for example ) i think this games are more safe .

Predicting what the next bets from us still difficult to them because of we bets base from the situations in the poker table and I think the AI now are not in that phase and maybe it will need to develop more so AI can work as we want.

But I am sure that in the future when the AI is grown more than now, it can help not just the casino but in the other field. We will see something new in our future and who knows what we saw in the movie will happen to our real life.

darklus123

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Machine Learning is really usable in casino slot games. You are right that a certain AI will be able to get your play style pattern and used it to casino's advantage but the good thing about it is that you as the gamer can also manipulate AI's work as you can put AI's situation where you wanted to be.

That is the bad thing about Machine Learning because the person who's been feeding the information which is the gambler can control the certain information that he would want the AI to learn and then use it to gamblers advantage.

shoreno

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

not all gambling are based on generating random numbers . what card games like poker ? that is an example of skill based and you are using a card not numbers . there is not right or wrong in generating a number because that is random but i think we it comes to solving something , ai or bots can work well versus humans .

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly.

they can observe your bets but they cant predict your next bets not unless if they are not fair . also not all gambling game is in versus mode ( dice game for example ) i think this games are more safe .

crwth

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I know that there are different types of AI. Based on my research, there are two types of it with many sub-branches after it. Type 1 and Type 2 AI (based on this reference)

For Type 1 it can be classified into two

Weak AI / Narrow AI - which is focused only on one task and that's it
Strong AI - it can perform tasks like a human being (scary it seems lol]

For Type 2 it can be classified into four and it is based on functionalities.

Reactive Machines - it's a basic form of AI and it's thinking on the present without using data or information from the past
Limited Memory - it bases it's actions with past data. The past information affects the future decisions (good for gambling maybe?)
Theory of Mind - an AI with feelings? They are able to understand peoples emotions
Self-awareness - like a human (we're not there yet)

For the usage of AI, I think the Machine Learning process on Type 2 limited memory machines would give a lot of chances to win because the more it takes on the information it could be learned on what it's doing and think of the best possible way to achieve the target. There is so much more application to AI that you can ever imagine, not just in casinos.

Links
Artificial Intelligence: Definition, Types, Examples, Technologies
How Artificial Intelligence Is Shaping Online Gambling
AI is better at bluffing than professional gamblers

Dreamchaser21

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It can help casinos on many ways but it must be set accordingly because not all gamblers in casinos are using technology some are still want to be more on traditional system. I think AI is already working in some casinos but its not that active since they still hire people to go work full time. The future of technology is good, everyone will adopt.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on June 25, 2019, 05:26:26 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

They can predict how I bet but can they predict what's the next winning number is going to be? I think not. If any gambling site manages to do that, people would stop playing there.

On point and a pretty basic thing where if they do manage such to know results then that would already be a big issue.
They can know patterns but due to random betting it would be hard or manage to know on what will be the next thing comes into your mind. Grin

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

Not really. The gambling websites don't use the traditional random number generators. Even computers or programming languages fail at that.

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

They can predict how I bet but can they predict what's the next winning number is going to be? I think not. If any gambling site manages to do that, people would stop playing there.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

Yes, they have house edge already so if they will integrate AI, they will rip more money from the gamblers. Tongue

If that would be the case, it might be very hard for the player to win now in casinos.
I don't think that's a good idea if you are a gambler and not the business owner.

Betwrong

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Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

Exactly! And that's only a single example out of many ways of overplaying robots. I used to play with bots on newly appeared poker sites, and won over 0.1 BTC that way(unfortunately, it looks like there are no such sites around anymore). It takes several hours(with small bets) to understand their algorithm, and then you can make larger bets and win most of the time. And even in the Rock, Paper, Scissors game, as you said, the algorithm can be abused.

Regarding dice, you can play with the same server seed as many times as you want, so I don't see how AI can provide a provably fair dice site with an additional edge.

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Now that we are on a whole new level of technology, there is no question about ai being used by most gambling sites(if not all) to have an edge over their clients. But considering this fact, gamblers still do the betting not because of the house edge but because they enjoy doing so.

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The casinos always win in the long time as they have the house edge which is set in their slot machines,blackjack and roulette games.I talk about electronic games and not the real blackjack and roulette.

If they add AI it can cause a lot of damage to the gamblers as AI can read patterns and make the appropriate adjustment to the variance of the gameplay if the gsmbler is winning.

Rufsilf

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I don't think they need any more AI to get money from gamblers or for them to get additional edge because as we all know casinos will really get profits in the long run depending on the number of times the gambler play. The longer a gambler play the higher chance that gambler will lose, imagine how many gambler's play everyday, with casinos house edges they don't need to cheat or do anything because in the long run they will win.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

We definitely know that. I think a friend did a test on my before and asked me to guess a few numbers from something to something (I forgotten!) and he showed me that I picked the same number, or the same pattern of numbers,,, over and over. And I did not even realize it.

Casinos definitely watch players, and they see if you like to take big risks and low chances, they will let you do it!

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Quote from: romero121 on June 23, 2019, 03:45:22 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

Lossing streak is not a valid evidence. Wondering why you can't beat the house? Because that's the reality of gambling. You only have a small chance in beating the house. Wether you play in online casino or in physical, you'll get the same result. You're going to have more losses.

We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

You just said "picks" right? So I assumed, you are talking about sportsbetting? So, the house has nothing to do with the result. Your winning and lossing will be based on the team, fighter, player, etc. So, what can an algorithm thing can do? LOL. What's funnier here is, you are wearing a sig of online casino but you are opposing and looks like you aren't believing in provably fair.

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Quote from: DebitMe on June 23, 2019, 10:20:13 PM

There will always be the risks of online casinos and anything goes. That is why it is important to only use reputable licensed casinos. Of course, this isn't 100% perfect and diligence always needs to be done, but using common sense and avoiding shady sites is a good way to ensure you avoid any of cheating by the casino.

If a casino is licensed or not doesnt really matter. Casinos usually dont write the software they use by themself, they buy them from software vendors. A friend of mine works for such a company, there are minor tweaks in place which prevent casinos from losing too much money, eg a part of the software ensures that there arent too many jackpots per month

DebitMe

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There will always be the risks of online casinos and anything goes. That is why it is important to only use reputable licensed casinos. Of course, this isn't 100% perfect and diligence always needs to be done, but using common sense and avoiding shady sites is a good way to ensure you avoid any of cheating by the casino.

nakamura12

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:14:09 PM

Gambling is all about random number generation, and provably fair scheme provides guarantees that casino doesn't cheat, but we also know that humans are horrible random number generators - we are very easily predictable.

There are many online demonstrations available, I'll just drop one here: http://www.cs.stir.ac.uk/~kms/schools/rps/index.php
After a small number of games, computer becomes quite good at consistently beating you at the game.

So, theoretically a casino can observe how you place your bets, then predict your next bets and make their own bets (they always go first) accordingly. The flaw here is if this algorithm is implemented too naively, it can be abused by players by making big amounts of predictable low-value bets, and then making a big opposite bet.

We really are horrible random number generators but I don't think that gambler site owner won't implement algorithm too naively where what you mentioned is true that it can be abused by players who knows that it has a flaw that you can take advantages. I think they will use algorithm but I think it's more aggressive in giving randomly generated number that make the game base on pure luck.

Yaunfitda

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I did observed some games like roulette wherein it looks like the casinos or maybe AI, when they see the pattern of your bets, you won't see success as it used to be. Of course there is almost the edge, but I don't know, see this many times when I'm playing that's why when I had a good run I will simply stop. At least I have won a few and move on the next game.

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Quote from: Woodie on June 23, 2019, 03:49:40 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:34:51 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 23, 2019, 03:34:51 PM

The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

One losing streak of one player can hardly be called evidence, to get real evidence, you need to statistically analyze millions of bets and then calculate if the real house edge is bigger than the claimed house edge. This is because in short term anything can happen, you can lose or win 20 times in a row, sometimes there are bad days for casino when they lose a lot, and so on - what we should be looking at is big data.

Thats how the house defends itself in such instances

For such gambler who do only make few bets then it wont really that enough to prove out something and also

if you do try to make arguments that the site isn't fair then you would need up some solid evidence and about AI or any whatsoever
algorithms we are speaking on here it non a surprising thing actually.

Woodie

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The gambler always knows that there game is being read by someone else besides them and there is no way of proving this with their famous line of defence "they can't manipulate games" but we know the truth and AI is certainly at play! I have had this experience with blackjack, dice and many other games....the losing streak is my evidence Tongue

One losing streak of one player can hardly be called evidence, to get real evidence, you need to statistically analyze millions of bets and then calculate if the real house edge is bigger than the claimed house edge. This is because in short term anything can happen, you can lose or win 20 times in a row, sometimes there are bad days for casino when they lose a lot, and so on - what we should be looking at is big data.

Thats how the house defends itself in such instances

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We're to believe and play, the provably fair feature can really be implemented but the reality can't be examined. Always the casinos develop an algorithm that adjust with the winning made by the user. Here very lucky ones get out with a big win. As stated in a quote there is no big loss for the casinos. Maybe at times it provides with huge payout, but the same will be taken back if the player continues. This has taken place with me. I started with 0.01btc and after a week I turned it to 0.05btc further I was unable to earn than losing on majority of the picks. Finally ended with nothing in the wallet.

LoyceMobile

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With a nonce system (which many online casinos use), the results are predetermined and can't be altered without a new server seed.

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