Topic: Catalonia independence vote rejected (Read 2583 times)
The only true way to be independent is to fight for it. If you have as many supporters as ou say you do you will likely win but it you don't like Scotland you will lose.
Destruction of Yugoslavia and the Kosovo case opened up a can of worms and there is no turning back now. By the way, Spain did not recognize Kosovo as an independent country. Reasons are pretty obvious.
Madrid knows very well that Catalonia would surely go if they allow referendum, that's why they are fiercely against it. As a matter of fact, I am not sure that London would have agreed with the Scottish referendum either if the independists there had such strong initial support like those in Catalonia (and yet, Scots almost succeeded). Besides, Madrid is afraid of the Basque, perhaps some other regions too - after the Catalonian independence it becomes nearly impossible to stop others from doing the same.
So, let's see how far are Catalans ready to go. If they really want separation so badly, well... sometimes, unfortunately, there is no other way but to fight. Literally.
Madrid knows very well that Catalonia would surely go if they allow referendum, that's why they are fiercely against it. As a matter of fact, I am not sure that London would have agreed with the Scottish referendum either if the independists there had such strong initial support like those in Catalonia (and yet, Scots almost succeeded). Besides, Madrid is afraid of the Basque, perhaps some other regions too - after the Catalonian independence it becomes nearly impossible to stop others from doing the same.
So, let's see how far are Catalans ready to go. If they really want separation so badly, well... sometimes, unfortunately, there is no other way but to fight. Literally.
Catalonia president orders independence referendum on Nov. 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUzdfBidiuI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUzdfBidiuI
Scottish NO vote will have a resonance in Catalonia interestingly... Although both countries are different.
http://rt.com/news/189208-catalonia-independence-vote-spain/
Republic of Crimea/Republic of Abkhazia/Republic of South Ossetia/Transnistrian Moldovan Republic scheme is in progress.
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The Catalan parliament has passed a law giving its regional president the power to carry out a non-binding consultation vote on secession from Spain.
Republic of Crimea/Republic of Abkhazia/Republic of South Ossetia/Transnistrian Moldovan Republic scheme is in progress.
I've never understood why so many people are nationalists or "regionalists".
For Catalonia (or Venice) it's a question of who is feeding whom. When your taxes stand for the most part of the country's welfare, yet you yourself see little of that welfare, you'd want to get out to actually enjoy the fruits of you hard work. Add to that suppression of your language/history/national identity and you definitely want to get out
The worse was the people in Crimea saying they wanted to be Russians. I wish everyone to become stateless.
You can't blame Russians who just happened to be given as a present to Ukraine, and lately having been more and more robbed of their identity, while their region didn't see any investments to want to go back to their country of birth, taking their land with them. See my point above.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying Madrid has a terrorist regime
Any regime which prevents the people from using their native language is a terrorist regime. Language is one of the main aspects of the culture, along with religion. The same goes for the current rag-tag government in Kiev, who have banned the Russian language.
Both Spain and France have made it clear that they will not allow the Catalonians to declare unilateral independence.
I understand that. France is afraid an independent Catalonia would want the Perpignan area, and then the Basque would ask for the other side of the Pyrenees, so it has a lot to loose. When you start to change the borders, there's no end. I've never understood why so many people are nationalists or "regionalists". The worse was the people in Crimea saying they wanted to be Russians. I wish everyone to become stateless.
Having lived in Bilbao and the Basque Country for a while I'd be surprised if we didn't see an escalation (military/violent) in the coming months in their bid for complete independence...
I sympathize with the Basque people. For many decades now, the terrorist regime which is in power in Madrid has tried to destroy the Basque culture. Until recently the language was banned from schools and media. The situation was much worse than Catalonia and Galicia. Now they are on their path to independence and Spain won't be able to stop it.
All the northern ethnic groups, Catalans, Basques, Leonese, Cantabrians, Mirandese, Asturians, Aragonese, Galicians.etc will break away from Spain in the near future.
Controversial hehe... ETA have done some pretty rancid things in the past, but it does seem to be justified in a sense... the repatriation of prisoners is a really contentious issue (and one which causes still weekly ''gatherings'' in central Bilbao) but I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying Madrid has a terrorist regime...
I did some work for the peace museum in Guernica and a lot of people in the Basque Country are just sick of how they have been ostracised by the rest of Spain, even the Catalans...
Now the Catalans are mobilising I wonder whether the Basque's recent quietness (in relative terms) is soon to end.
Having lived in Bilbao and the Basque Country for a while I'd be surprised if we didn't see an escalation (military/violent) in the coming months in their bid for complete independence...
I sympathize with the Basque people. For many decades now, the terrorist regime which is in power in Madrid has tried to destroy the Basque culture. Until recently the language was banned from schools and media. The situation was much worse than Catalonia and Galicia. Now they are on their path to independence and Spain won't be able to stop it.
All the northern ethnic groups, Catalans, Basques, Leonese, Cantabrians, Mirandese, Asturians, Aragonese, Galicians.etc will break away from Spain in the near future.
It makes sense that Catalonia and other autonomous regions in Spain want independence: their wealth is being inequitably redistributed to support the extreme poverty that is affecting Andalucia/Murcia/Extremadura...
This vote should come as no surprise, the Spanish voting need Catalonia's cash...
Having lived in Bilbao and the Basque Country for a while I'd be surprised if we didn't see an escalation (military/violent) in the coming months in their bid for complete independence...
This vote should come as no surprise, the Spanish voting need Catalonia's cash...
Having lived in Bilbao and the Basque Country for a while I'd be surprised if we didn't see an escalation (military/violent) in the coming months in their bid for complete independence...
There are few EU trolling solutions possible.
One of them is signing a confederate treaty with Iran or another extreme EU-unfriendly state. There are no common borders with Iran, but that's not a problem if government of Iran will decide to sign such treaty. As a result, Catalonia de jure becomes an Iranian territory (while keeping independence and sovereignity de facto) and any aggression against them will mean a threat of response from Iran. They own enough rockets to fix this issue.
One of them is signing a confederate treaty with Iran or another extreme EU-unfriendly state. There are no common borders with Iran, but that's not a problem if government of Iran will decide to sign such treaty. As a result, Catalonia de jure becomes an Iranian territory (while keeping independence and sovereignity de facto) and any aggression against them will mean a threat of response from Iran. They own enough rockets to fix this issue.
I hope that final result will be similar to something like this
Except in this case, they don't have an ally like Russia to protect them from Spain. Both Spain and France have made it clear that they will not allow the Catalonians to declare unilateral independence.
I hope that final result will be similar to something like this:
Catalonia to press for independence despite red light from Madrid:
http://rt.com/news/catalonia-independence-referendum-spain-177/
http://rt.com/news/catalonia-independence-referendum-spain-177/
Good decision. EU must first get its house in order, before it pokes its nose in to Ukraine. Catalonians don't have to worry anything. They have a population of 7.5 million, and can easily assemble an army of 100,000 people.
Catalonia to press for independence despite red light from Madrid:
http://rt.com/news/catalonia-independence-referendum-spain-177/
http://rt.com/news/catalonia-independence-referendum-spain-177/
Technically, it started with NATO's intervention in Kosovo. Back then Russia was telling NATO that they are setting up a dangerous precedent for separatism. 
Exactly. Kosovo was historical Serbian homeland which was snatched away by Bill & Hillary Clinton, and given to the organized Shqiptar criminals. You reap what you sow.
...this Crimea thing might be a trigger for all other nations to think, hey, we can do that too
and that's exactly what they need to do, stop the oppression
and that's exactly what they need to do, stop the oppression
Technically, it started with NATO's intervention in Kosovo. Back then Russia was telling NATO that they are setting up a dangerous precedent for separatism.
Later this year, there'll be a referendum for independence of Scotland, which UK acknowledges, so there is a good chance will see one more state emerge this year.
By the way, draft constitution of Crimea was put up for discussion yesterday
To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority.
No one asked for the permission. There is a planned referendum on November this year, so see whether the people want to be independent or not. On the other hand, Spain is saying that it will not allow Catalonia to hold the referendum.
wow, this will escalate
the world is getting involved in confilcts more and more by each day, this Crimea thing might be a trigger for all other nations to think, hey, we can do that too
and that's exactly what they need to do, stop the oppression
Next step is deny presidential or parliamentary elections. 
To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority.
No one asked for the permission. There is a planned referendum on November this year, so see whether the people want to be independent or not. On the other hand, Spain is saying that it will not allow Catalonia to hold the referendum.
Isn't this contradictory? If you have to ask for independence, you're really not serious about independence. To be independent is to be sovereign; to ask permission to be independent implies you're submitting to a higher authority. So of course they voted no; they were stating the obvious.
We shall also remember that 2 years ago, Catalonia was begging Madrid for refinancing.
That depends on which media you want to rely on.
Catalonia, with less than 20% of the Spanish population contributes to more than 40% of its tax revenue. So two years ago, when the province faced a revenue crunch, they asked the Madrid to give them a part of the tax revenues, which were extracted from the province.
I'm going to Spain quite often, and all this is laughable. Italy had the same problem when the Northern League wanted to break up from the South. In both cases, this is highly opportunistic. Catalonia is doing a bit better than the other Spanish regions at this time but that wasn't true 100 years ago, and that may not last.
We shall also remember that 2 years ago, Catalonia was begging Madrid for refinancing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9290206/Catalonia-calls-for-help-from-central-government-to-pay-debts.html
We shall also remember that 2 years ago, Catalonia was begging Madrid for refinancing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9290206/Catalonia-calls-for-help-from-central-government-to-pay-debts.html
I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Opinions polls have found huge support for independence there. There is a lot of resentment that Catalonia, one of the most tax paying regions of Spain is funding the other regions in the South.
but how will we watch the El Clasico ever again?
I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Opinions polls have found huge support for independence there. There is a lot of resentment that Catalonia, one of the most tax paying regions of Spain is funding the other regions in the South.
I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
That's what a referendum would have found out. Yet, the central government is scared of it, so their fears that the region that feeds the whole Spain will secede must be justified.
I wonder if Catalonia really need it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
Also how many people leaving there really want it.
In a world that as communicated and with a common market and currency like that of Europe, independence tends to be relative and easy to sustain even for very small units like Catalonia. If anything I expect many more such movements.
NATO should intervene and bomb Madrid to free Catalonia
Did you mistook Madrid for Belgrade? (And Catalonia for Kosovo?
)
NATO should intervene and bomb Madrid to free Catalonia... Oh, wait. NATO already have a military base in Spain. Nothing to do there. Democracy and self-determination is already achieved. Move along.
They need to start formation of self-defence forces, like people of the Republic of Crimea did. Then ignore central government and perform a referendum without their permission...
P.S. Seizure of local administrative institutions may be helpful too.
P.S. Seizure of local administrative institutions may be helpful too.
doesn't matter what they think, only matters what people in Catalonia think
Well.. according to the opinion polls, the vats majority of the Catalonians want independence. But the Spanish politicians are saying that they will intervene militarily to prevent that.
doesn't matter what they think, only matters what people in Catalonia think
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26949794
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Spanish MPs have voted overwhelmingly to reject a request by the Catalan authorities to hold a referendum on independence on 9 November. After seven hours of debate, 299 MPs voted against the motion, with 47 votes in favour and one abstention.
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