Topic: CBDCs are not an "opportunity". They'll likely offer you less than you have now. (Read 283 times)

The only similarity between a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) and a "true" cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin is that both of them are in digital format and use the Blockchain to conduct transactions. CBDC is essentially fiat currency in crypto format. Unlike Bitcoin, there is no limit on the maximum supply and the Blockchain will be controlled by a central entity. The entity will be able to revert transactions, and freeze the funds within any wallet as per it's liking. In short, you will get something like the PayPal USD.

It is terrible what happened to the financial system which is currently controlled by a handful of people who claim to be the world's police. needs clash with lives at stake. against human rights as mere toys.
remain human, without having the vice of taking life.
We need money, but our life cannot be exchanged for money.

CBDS are issued and controlled by central banks. This is a product of central banks and therefore CBDS cannot replace banks. CBDS traffic will need to be regulated. After all, this is the same fiat money, only in digital form. The concept of banks and their functions is much broader than just digital money. CBDS is just an improved format of regular money and nothing will change significantly from their appearance.

This is true, CBDCs are already there. Digital Banks, digital transactions, and so on. This isn’t a new thing and I can tell, it is no change/new. It is still the same, principles and values still kept intact. The only difference is the convenience it gives when massively accepted.

The only issue I have with this is the privacy of transactions. Like every transaction is being traced, and it is no good with people who have things done.

You can’t compare the cryptocurrencies to CBDCs, it’s totally two different dimensions. Just imagine your phone being your wallet with the currency we have right now. That is basically it.

You have underestimated how low can a person really can be just for the money, they’re willing to kill to get money, willing to go to wars, or devastating the entire nations, what’s more for just a CBDC, which is they have nothing to loss anyway, btw I’m not gonna guide you to be a person that behave like a Satan.

I don't think most people really understand what central bank cryptocurrencies are, so they probably think they'll be able to trade and make a profit - or they're so thrilled with the idea that they won't have to pay with banknotes anymore and that everything will be in digital form. But I don't see where the difference is between, say, mobile banking and their apps that allow you to transfer money quickly and instantly, and the fact that you do the same with CBDC - except that the Euro will be called the digital Euro.


You can really control people through money, and with CBDC it will really be brought to perfection - every transaction will be recorded and what little privacy is left will disappear. But I think that the adjustment will take some time, the banknotes will not just go out of use - although their use in many EU countries is already severely limited for cash transactions to a maximum of 10 000 EUR or even much less in some EU member states.

As for whether someone will accept it or not, I think most people will remain completely indifferent to it - it is not a proposal that people will be asked about - when it comes to the EU, 70% of all decisions are made in EU parliament - nation states have only a protocol role in all this (with a few exceptions).

Quite the opposite. While not a great excitements, it would be great for me to be able to deposit directly into a CB account and skip the banks. Even if it doe snot pay interest at least I do not have to trust a banks, pay commissions for the privilege of doing so and depend on them for my personal data. Also, people who do not have access to a regular bank account could at least hold some form of a wallet and maybe even have access to some short of centralised financing.

So, yes, there are some reasons to get moderately excited for most, and very excited for others.. who probably are not even aware that this is coming BTW.

Well, by your definition you said that the early adopters of CBDC is on a Ponzi isn't that the same as what happened with bitcoin, early adopters got in and profited big when moee people got in. I don't think that the government is going for an exit scam, they are going to continue the lie even though it is blatant because no one can stop them anyway.

Exactly. What they like about currency being on blockchain is the ability to trace and track every single transaction. The record of earnings, expenditure, classification of expenditure, profits and taxes will be a simple API call on their central database if the idea of CBDCs is actually implemented.

I am personally not excited about CBDC, nor would any self-respecting Bitcoiner ever be. Though I doubt that CBDCs will be able to replace individual's options for keeping cash or using cash. This brings the point that whether we should be necessarily concerned about the tracking of income and expenses of individuals. They can very well do that with the online banking systems of today itself. CBDCs seem little more than a fad to me advocated by bankers who feel like they should present an alternative to cryptocurrencies, especially considering how popular they seemingly are with the small retail investors.

I mean for all the talk about CBDC, i see zero utility for even the central bank itself. What possible ulterior benefit could they have, unless they are made mandatory and people are legally bound to use only CBDCs and nothing else.

Think of CBDC as a cheap imitation of the product which means that in the long-term you won't get a lot of value out of it since it is a depreciating item that isn't the same as the original not to mention that with CBDC we are all going back to the time when the government has control over us.

Of course fiat and CBDC is centralized by default (underlying protocol doesn't have to be though), that's what fiat is and needs to be in order to government benefit from their own money. They need to have option to "buffer" it by printing it and controlling it, otherwise they could just move back to gold standard or similar to that and there's a reason no government is doing that.

you'd be surprised how many people are stuck in their ways and would never leave the corrupt centralized system for even a better decentralized and without corruption currency. the choice has been presented to them more than 12 years ago and they ignored it just because it was unfamiliar!

Well even if there weren't any official consensus, it's still known to be a centralized digital currency. Just that, and it's more than enough to identify that they'd pretty much be just the same as fiat, one that'd be pretty damn advantageous to them more compared to the current fiat system. It's pretty much like how China wants to control literally everything that happens in their country, just that this one is concentrated on the financial sector of basically the entire world.

Wish people could be given a one time opportunity to choose between Well Decentralized Cryptocurrencies or Central Bank Coin. They are allowed to read/know about their features or  terms and conditions
 Once you choose one , there is no going back. If you choose cbdc, you use it alone without decentralized crypto... if you choose decentralized crypto, you use it alone without central bank coin. Both communities sign an agreement not to stop people from using their currencies in digital and physical public spaces.

I think most people in cbcd community will end up  wanting to flee the community, but it'll be too late by then.

That's pretty clear as daylight. CBDCs will actually take away our financial privacy once and for all. Cash still have a certain degree of anonymity but with CBDC, everything will go away. Every single transaction will be viewed by the enforcement and regulatory agencies and we will have nothing to hide at all. With CBDC, every single income of ours, will be visible to the tax authorities.

So I am not sure who is cheering for CBDCs at all. But it is because they could understand CBDC at all.

Not many people in this forum likes the idea of CBDCs. To me, it is just another form of fiat but with more centralized and less privacy. Besides, it might take many years before a realistic CBDC ever exist. Most of CBDCs are in experiment. Even China, the country which only tries to control citizens, still does not implement that new form of national currency.

And when they successfully apply CBDC to the currency economy, most of the people have their own cryptocurrency, whether it is Bitcoin, or memecoin

Nope, it’s a double edged sword, those early in bitcoin would move to yet another ponzi which promise the same early adopter benefit, to kill bitcoin ponzi, create another ponzi that promise great profit for early adopter, of course the promise come from government is some of the most promising of all promises, government rarely exit their scam like most scams, also government provide the most stable income ever you can imagine, however you wouldn’t be the early no matter what.

I have never seen someone in the cryptocurrency community being excited about CBDCs.
The people,who believe in the current fiat financial system and hate crypto believe that CBDCs are an upgrade of the fiat system,which is kinda true.CBDCs will bring more centralization and less privacy,in order to fight tax evasion and money laundering.This is the main goal.The people won't get any benefit from adopting CBDCs.I don't believe that the CBDC transaction fees will be lower or that CBDcs will be more secure than the current digital fiat money,that you have in your online bank account or Paypal account.

If that was the case then bitcoin and other cryptocurrency would be the same as CBDC since the early adopters did get a lot of profit from their hodlings. I would say that CBDC is the antithesis of bitcoin and what cryptocurrency should be, free of control and not useless outside the country's border.

I saw some people expressing hopes that CBDC's would replace banks, because they will offer faster and cheaper transactions, but if it would happen, that's absolutely not a good thing, it would be just more concentration of power by the state, and most countries would be one bad election away from having a dictatorship established, because the state will have full technological and legal capability tot deeply control daily aspects of out lives.

It wouldn't surprise me if they insisted people be registered, accredited brokers before they're allowed to do anything like day-trade one national CBDC against another.

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Nope.  Fiat currencies, broken though they may be, aren't a ponzi scheme.  There won't be any benefit for adopting early.  You're just surrendering your privacy and autonomy faster by doing that.  They will retain the same value as the existing national currency.  In other words, you can't profit by selling your digital national currency back for the same physical national currency.  All it means is that cash will be gradually phased out as more people adopt the digital version.

It would work out as another ponzi, the early adopter would definitely gain handsomely, they need some take the initiative and also paid them a lot to make sure everything could take off, you may get less if you are late, I’m certain those get in early would gain most of them, sadly you won’t be one of the early, those early spots would likely taken to the ponzi master and the bankers.

So far fiat are traded using broker which are also providing exchange platforms to trade fiat, that means people will be able to trade CBDCs also, but with the brokers or exchanges that can follow the rules of the countries that created the CBDCs. But CBDCs will be coins that will not let people to have privacy, it will just be a coin of modern day monetary slavery, I mean monetary slavery because the government will have full control over it, not individuals. In my opinion, I can not have any CBDC because I like privacy, digital fiat lack privacy, but CBDCs will lack privacy more than fiat.

There's no official consensus yet how CBDCs should work and what kind of platform they should run on, but one of the main things will be privacy bcause public blockchains are uncompliant with GDPR. Take a look what Dusk Network is building for example, that's one of the solutions that could work. But eventually we might be getting a better deal then we thought, a system that replaces physical cash and doesn't go China's way, but acts as a alternative for full blown govenrment tracking program.

Yeah point 2 applies especially to current centralised exchanges as well as things like national debt.

Countries could just start wiping the slate clear by altering a couple of numbers. There's a chance some countries will offer a decentralised solution but it won't be as secure as the current blockchains we have now (dcr, eth and btc).

Additionally, chances of getting physicals like gold on chains allows for even more inflation to be added to the asset (as has already been done with vaulted gold). There could be algorithmic increases too thst are harder to track (eg you possess a kilo today, 980 grams next year, 965 grams the year after)...

Let's settle this once and for all.  There are few, if any, reasons to be excited about the "potential" of CBDCs.  Assuming they even happen, they will just be a continuation of existing national currencies, only without the physical coins and banknotes.  If you have no current interest in buying and holding everyday, normal fiat currencies like Yuan, Pound Sterling, Dollars and others, then equally you should have no interest in buying and holding any CBDCs.  If anything, they will offer you far less freedom and autonomy than you currently have, because they'll try to phase out physical cash, which offers you privacy and anonymity.  Why would you support something that sacrifices that?  Don't buy the hype.  CBDCs are nothing more than the next step in the war on cash and continued erosion of your freedoms.

I honestly don't understand why people are actually looking forward by this.  People seem to think you'll be trading them on exchanges like you do with cryptocurrencies.  I think this is a little naive.  You'll only be sending funds to an exchange if the central bank, government, regulators, etc allow you to.  And I highly doubt they will allow that.  Why would they?  Keep in mind that they will likely have the power to freeze, or even seize, funds and also reverse any transactions they don't approve of.  If they decide they don't want your coins being on an exchange, they're as good as gone.  All it takes is them making a quick adjustment to their ledger, which they will easily be able to do.  At any time and for any reason.  You won't have a say in the matter.  

When they're cherry-picking which parts of our technology they're going to utilise, do you really think they're going to keep the parts that benefit you?  Of course they won't.  They'll take any parts that allow them to monitor, surveil, record and document every single move you make.  That's all they're interested in.  CBDCs will give those in authority absolute and total control.  To be perfectly blunt, you're an absolute fool if you would unquestioningly welcome that proposition.  Whatever opportunities you thought it was going to give you, think again.  If anything it will likely take away some of the few rights you still have remaining.