Centralized exchanges have become the banks of the cryptocurrency world

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Quote from: pixie85 on February 13, 2020, 06:00:25 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 09, 2020, 05:21:53 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 04:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

Come on, P2P? Have you seen the volume on those sites? Probably not even 1% of crypto users go to these sites

No one knows that volume

This is the whole thing with the P2P markets. We don't and most importantly can't know how much Bitcoin is being bought and sold there. Apart from this, even if only 1% of all crypto users are trading via P2P marketplaces, that doesn't in the least mean it is only 1% of all bitcoins being traded. The entire point of using P2P is to sell huge amounts of coins in a safe way but without drawing too much attention to your operations as it inevitably and inexorably happens when you sell or buy using regular exchanges

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Quote from: Google+ on February 11, 2020, 06:44:26 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 06:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

It's not safe to store your assets to any CEX exchange as chances that it will be hack and rob still possible. Even those known exchange experience
hacking but more people still use CEX than DEX due to it's friendly interface, it's more easy to understand and use the platform and the volume also
is considered.

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Centralized exchanges gives the outlook same as Bank through the services that's been offered. However without the traditional banks support it isn't possible to use Centralized Exchanges as the banks of the cryptocurrency world. Here the need of banks can be eliminated when the end users are ready to deal only with cryptocurrencies. To have this in reality we need to wait long, because the usage of cryptocurrencies and the acceptance level at present is very low in number compared to the traditional systems followed.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 09, 2020, 05:21:53 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 04:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

Come on, P2P? Have you seen the volume on those sites? Probably not even 1% of crypto users go to these sites.
Saying that trading Bitcoin without ever using a centralized exchange is possible is just like saying that you can ditch your car and walk 10 km to work every day. Sure it's possible but nobody is going to do it in such situation just like nobody is going to run a crypto business without ever selling for fiat.

We are using fiat that's a fact and all the pumps and headlines are there because people are trading and creating volume.

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And how do you create a community and make them all to start making use of decentralized exchange? If you can’t do that here by convincing people to start making use of decentralized exchange, how do you think you can go to the extent of creating a whole community that uses just decentralized exchanges? That doesn’t make any sense.

People are using what they think is right for them, so you shouldn’t be complaining. Just keep making use of what you feel is right for you. That you like decentralized exchanges doesn’t mean that others too are going to like it. And yes , centralized exchanges are ruling now, maybe a time will come when decentralized exchanges might become better and a lot of people will switch to it.

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Quote from: Google+ on February 11, 2020, 06:44:26 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 06:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

No need to talk about the crash, we just need to talk about the case where these centralized exchanges were attacked by hackers then stealing assets from their wallets, this scenario is enough for us to see the risk of storing and turning these exchanges into banks. The crypto world doesn't need an exchange to become a bank, they just need these exchanges to work properly and be accountable, the assets that investors own will be stored in their own wallets at crypto wallet websites trustworthy or hardware wallet

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In my opinion, centralized exchanges are needed in order to tackle scams and malicious behaviors from members of the community.
Centralized exchanges offer an umbrella of safety to their users from scams. Unfortunately, they are prone to security breaches but big exchanges have the ability to refund their users if something like that happens.

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Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 06:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

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To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

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Quote from: magneto on February 10, 2020, 03:43:31 PM

Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 10, 2020, 03:09:38 PM

There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

As I've said before, the lack of adoption of DEXs isn't because of the fact that people don't want to use them or reject decentralisation.

Quite the contrary, people in the cryptosphere want to embrace decentralisation, but they are forced to use centralised exchanges because DEXs simply can't fulfill their needs in terms of liquidity, speed, and customer support.

Most people understand the risks involved with storing their coins with a third party and most would want to avoid it. But right now, there is simply no feasible alternative, especially for whales.

I believe the centralized exchanges will be the solution for the mass since it's a ready-made solution accessible to anyone while the DEXs will be for the nerds/geeks.

We could compare it with Microsoft Vs GNU/Linux.
Despite the fact that operating systems based on Linux are free and with many benefits, we keep using Microsoft. We can't even argue by saying we have no choice because it comes installed by default. If we start to ask (in mass) new computers with an open-source OS believe me than the manufacturers will start to manufacture it and we will pay it cheaper.
We could also remove Microsoft ourself and install a GNU/Linux OS, it's easier and faster to install a Buntu for example than Windows
As of today, the majority use Microsoft but there is a large group of people using Linux.

Centralized exchanges are easy to use, you create an account and deposit funds wait a few days and click 3-4 buttons to buy your favorite cryptocurrency. With the DEXs it's something different. I'm not sure if we can say they don't fit their needs since in 99.9% of the case they never bothered to try once to use a DEX.

In the same way with the example, Microsoft/Linux, people who will want to become the nerd/geek of their own finance will use the DEXs. When it's about money people are pretty quick to learn.

Also, to be honest, if you ask the question to people randomly they don't really know what is decentralization and here too

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We do have a choice in the matter to stop them from becoming too big if we ever wish to do so. Centralized exchanges have an alternative, banks do not. If you do not like your bank, all you can do is using another bank, those are the options, nowadays with the improving technology there are digital banks and other so forth examples of options but in the end they are all banks and they are all regulated the same way.

However if you dislike your exchange, you can pick a decentralized one and use that which would in return give the power to traders instead of the central exchanges that collect your money and let you do whatever while you are not in possession of your own money and they can literally just use it for regular safe investments whenever they feel like it to make small income.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 10, 2020, 03:09:38 PM

There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

As I've said before, the lack of adoption of DEXs isn't because of the fact that people don't want to use them or reject decentralisation.

Quite the contrary, people in the cryptosphere want to embrace decentralisation, but they are forced to use centralised exchanges because DEXs simply can't fulfill their needs in terms of liquidity, speed, and customer support.

Most people understand the risks involved with storing their coins with a third party and most would want to avoid it. But right now, there is simply no feasible alternative, especially for whales.

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There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

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Quote from: Japinat on February 10, 2020, 01:22:37 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 05:01:00 AM

Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 04:31:08 AM

I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference

The difference you are talking about is in fact quite superficial

To trade on most decentralized exchanges, you have to buy the asset of the underlying blockchain with your real bitcoins (e.g. BitShares, or whatever they are called now) that an exchange uses to enable more or less smooth trading in a seemingly decentralized way. And while the decentralized exchange may not have the keys to your wallet, they are still controlling the blockchain of that wallet. Put differently, it is just another level of control, and if you ask me, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It is like Bitfinex fully controlling Bitcoin's blockchain

I get it, it's just a level of control but I feel more comfortable with using DEX as you just need to supply a simple information, the advantage is no KYC requirement, you just use their system and you are good to go, if only they have the volume and liquidity, I'm sure more people would use them

This level of control is less apparent

But it doesn't make it less strong or, if I can say so, less insidious and treacherous. In fact, it is the other way around. With regular exchanges, they can indeed steal your coins or claim someone else did that on their behalf, but it will be obvious and impossible to hide. However, they can't do anything with the coins as such, i.e. they can't arbitrarily change the respective blockchains as they have no control over them. The coins will exist and go on regardless of the exchanges where they are being traded, whatever may happen to them

This is not the case with most decentralized exchanges which use a private blockchain to enable trading in a seemingly decentralized manner. Technically speaking, they can do just about anything with that blockchain, and ultimately scam you out of your money because they are controlling every aspect of their blockchain, and, more importantly, they are controlling it in so subtle ways that you may not even be aware of the changes made until it is too late. That's the ugly truth about the majority of the so-called decentralized exchanges

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Quote from: thesmallgod on February 09, 2020, 08:31:04 PM

Quote from: btccashacc on January 26, 2020, 11:39:20 AM

I somehow agree that centralized exchange already became bitcoin bank, because most of the users are now using those centralized exchanges and have been upload their details in order to verificate their account, we can't avoid using echange without verifivation because they will limit some features such a minimum withdrawing or even do a trade.

Anyway. It depends on your crypto asset value. A lot of people use centralized exchange without verification. It is only when you have tons of btc that you begin to feel bothered about verification and besides why would someone keep a lot of BTC on exchange account. It is not save. I still prefer to use Centralized exchange because many of the decentralized ones are a piece of shit. From etherdelta to mercatox to forkdelta. From my experience, it is always rigorous to use and i dont like to upload or enter my private key on any exchange.

There is no issue in using centralized exchanges until they need us to verify our identity. Trading with smaller amounts onto those centralized exchanges would never cause any harm but if our daily trading volume exceeds above 2 BTC than the exchange might restrict you and make it mandatory to upload your KYC documents for verification which would never keep your anonymous anymore.

Decentralized exchanges would play a better role in such kind of situations as they would never ask for document verification but yet the benefits offered by such dex's are not that attractive to attract some traders onto the platform. Also there is minimum volume on such decentralized exchanges which would never make us find profits by trading with higher amounts because there would not be immense buy and sell orders to fulfill your orders.

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Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 05:01:00 AM

Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 04:31:08 AM

I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference

The difference you are talking about is in fact quite superficial

To trade on most decentralized exchanges, you have to buy the asset of the underlying blockchain with your real bitcoins (e.g. BitShares, or whatever they are called now) that an exchange uses to enable more or less smooth trading in a seemingly decentralized way. And while the decentralized exchange may not have the keys to your wallet, they are still controlling the blockchain of that wallet. Put differently, it is just another level of control, and if you ask me, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It is like Bitfinex fully controlling Bitcoin's blockchain

I get it, it's just a level of control but I feel more comfortable with using DEX as you just need to supply a simple information, the advantage is no KYC requirement, you just use their system and you are good to go, if only they have the volume and liquidity, I'm sure more people would use them.

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It’s this same issues that are causing a lot of newly started projects to be considering small exchanges for listing their coins because they know that they cannot afford all these big exchanges and their requirements. These new projects end up with the disadvantage of using a small exchange because they never get a high demand as they would if they made use of big exchanges.

There are some good projects you will see in the market today and you will be expecting them to be listed on big exchanges and after everything they end up on small useless exchanges and that’s the end of the project.

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Quote from: btccashacc on January 26, 2020, 11:39:20 AM

I somehow agree that centralized exchange already became bitcoin bank, because most of the users are now using those centralized exchanges and have been upload their details in order to verificate their account, we can't avoid using echange without verifivation because they will limit some features such a minimum withdrawing or even do a trade.

Anyway. It depends on your crypto asset value. A lot of people use centralized exchange without verification. It is only when you have tons of btc that you begin to feel bothered about verification and besides why would someone keep a lot of BTC on exchange account. It is not save. I still prefer to use Centralized exchange because many of the decentralized ones are a piece of shit. From etherdelta to mercatox to forkdelta. From my experience, it is always rigorous to use and i dont like to upload or enter my private key on any exchange.

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Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 04:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 08, 2020, 06:31:47 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 08, 2020, 05:23:59 PM

It's strange how much time it takes for people to get familiar with changes and accept them. The first step was making them go from a completely centralized fiat system to semi-decentralized Bitcoin. Now they're slowly getting ready for a completely decentralized system with anonymous cryptocurrencies and DEX.

I'm only afraid that it will take another 20 years and we'll be old farts unable to fully enjoy it when it comes.

Why are you calling Bitcoin "semi-decentralized"? It's pretty much the most decentralized cryptocurrency out there thanks to its node count, hashpower and global community. The ecosystem of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency exchanges is centralized, but it's not caused by any of the Bitcoin's properties, so it's wrong to say that altcoins are the future. And privacy has little to do with decentralization, they are different topics, and usually decentralization is needed to achieve privacy - not the opposite.

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

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Possibly yes, I can assure that to be honest, but we can't make a comparison between Banks and centralized exchanges in my opinion, maybe they affect negatively on the decentralized crypto but indirectly and without a big value. Plus, most of them are unprofitable and with a low value of market cap. In fact, I did not see a lot of this type of exchanges, so they are not widespread I would guess .The cryptocurrency world is deeply different than the FIAT.

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Crypto is becoming fully centralized now. There are less and less freedom and anonimity. It goes to be another one version of fiat

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Sadly centralized exchanges offers security, liquidity and and insurance unlike decentralize exchanges that most likely hackable and could even go down and bankrupt. What we must do is put our crypto's on a wallet or like a ledger and only deposit small amounts cos we'll never know what CEX might do.

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In a way I can agree that some cryptocurrencies exchanges play the role of the crypto bank.
But that maybe shows that there is a need for some forn of crypto bank where users could get cryptocurrency related services.
I don't think that will influence decentralization in a bad way and ruin the very essence of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Maybe that would be something worth taking into consideration.

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Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 04:31:08 AM

I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference

The difference you are talking about is in fact quite superficial

To trade on most decentralized exchanges, you have to buy the asset of the underlying blockchain with your real bitcoins (e.g. BitShares, or whatever they are called now) that an exchange uses to enable more or less smooth trading in a seemingly decentralized way. And while the decentralized exchange may not have the keys to your wallet, they are still controlling the blockchain of that wallet. Put differently, it is just another level of control, and if you ask me, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It is like Bitfinex fully controlling Bitcoin's blockchain

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Quote from: Darker45 on February 09, 2020, 03:48:40 AM

Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 03:31:01 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 01:41:30 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on February 08, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

With all these, I wonder why DEXs remain as options when they are clearly way much better than centralized exchanges

They are not much better

The sad truth is, it actually remains to be seen if they are overall better at all. The vast majority of so-called decentralized exchanges are in fact as centralized as any other exchange out there, though they may be centralized at a different level. To make such an exchange competitive, with trades as fast as possible, you will have to run a private (read, centralized) blockchain, and how is that different from a regular cryptocurrency exchange in terms of centralization and control over users funds and assets?

Not too many people are too technical about their differences.

IMO, what centralized meant is that you will have to trust a site, input your password and they'll in control of you assets once you deposit it.
What I understand about decentralized is like what ETHER DELTA has been offering before, you input your private key and you are ready to go to trade and it assets listing does not go with the process of a centralized exchange,.. maybe my knowledge is not too deep, and sorry about that.

Well, basically, the difference is that decentralized exchanges do not require the user to submit his/her cryptocurrencies to the platform in order to be able to do trades. On the other hand, centralized exchanges, as stated by the very subject of this thread, is becoming the banks of the cryptocurrency world primary because they have custody over your cryptocurrency assets. That difference itself is crystal clear.

In a centralized exchange, your Bitcoin is not really your Bitcoin because you do not hold them yourself. You do not have 100% control over them. Your Bitcoin is in the hands of the centralized exchanges and those platforms could easily plan an exit scam, or be hacked, or be attacked in some other ways that would bring you into a situation where you don't have any other choice but to say goodbye to your coins.

Last year alone, hundreds of millions of USD are lost due to successful hacks. For the last decade, more hackers got past the security systems of centralized exchanges and they successfully stole coins worth billions of USD. And not just coins, hackers are even stealing personal information out of KYC submissions. And how little of these stolen amounts are actually recovered?

I understand all your explanation, I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference, you are right, we don't own the coin once we deposit it on our centralized exchange wallet address unlike in DEX where we just access in our wallet and trade and though DEX is not totally safe because there's an incident in the past that the people's private key got stolen when the website was compromise, instead they put their private key to a wrong website were all info are stolen.

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Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 03:31:01 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 01:41:30 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on February 08, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

With all these, I wonder why DEXs remain as options when they are clearly way much better than centralized exchanges

They are not much better

The sad truth is, it actually remains to be seen if they are overall better at all. The vast majority of so-called decentralized exchanges are in fact as centralized as any other exchange out there, though they may be centralized at a different level. To make such an exchange competitive, with trades as fast as possible, you will have to run a private (read, centralized) blockchain, and how is that different from a regular cryptocurrency exchange in terms of centralization and control over users funds and assets?

Not too many people are too technical about their differences.

IMO, what centralized meant is that you will have to trust a site, input your password and they'll in control of you assets once you deposit it.
What I understand about decentralized is like what ETHER DELTA has been offering before, you input your private key and you are ready to go to trade and it assets listing does not go with the process of a centralized exchange,.. maybe my knowledge is not too deep, and sorry about that.

Well, basically, the difference is that decentralized exchanges do not require the user to submit his/her cryptocurrencies to the platform in order to be able to do trades. On the other hand, centralized exchanges, as stated by the very subject of this thread, is becoming the banks of the cryptocurrency world primary because they have custody over your cryptocurrency assets. That difference itself is crystal clear.

In a centralized exchange, your Bitcoin is not really your Bitcoin because you do not hold them yourself. You do not have 100% control over them. Your Bitcoin is in the hands of the centralized exchanges and those platforms could easily plan an exit scam, or be hacked, or be attacked in some other ways that would bring you into a situation where you don't have any other choice but to say goodbye to your coins.

Last year alone, hundreds of millions of USD are lost due to successful hacks. For the last decade, more hackers got past the security systems of centralized exchanges and they successfully stole coins worth billions of USD. And not just coins, hackers are even stealing personal information out of KYC submissions. And how little of these stolen amounts are actually recovered?

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Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 01:41:30 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on February 08, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

With all these, I wonder why DEXs remain as options when they are clearly way much better than centralized exchanges

They are not much better

The sad truth is, it actually remains to be seen if they are overall better at all. The vast majority of so-called decentralized exchanges are in fact as centralized as any other exchange out there, though they may be centralized at a different level. To make such an exchange competitive, with trades as fast as possible, you will have to run a private (read, centralized) blockchain, and how is that different from a regular cryptocurrency exchange in terms of centralization and control over users funds and assets?

Not too many people are too technical about their differences.

IMO, what centralized meant is that you will have to trust a site, input your password and they'll in control of you assets once you deposit it.
What I understand about decentralized is like what ETHER DELTA has been offering before, you input your private key and you are ready to go to trade and it assets listing does not go with the process of a centralized exchange,.. maybe my knowledge is not too deep, and sorry about that.

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Quote from: Darker45 on February 08, 2020, 10:09:47 PM

With all these, I wonder why DEXs remain as options when they are clearly way much better than centralized exchanges

They are not much better

The sad truth is, it actually remains to be seen if they are overall better at all. The vast majority of so-called decentralized exchanges are in fact as centralized as any other exchange out there, though they may be centralized at a different level. To make such an exchange competitive, with trades as fast as possible, you will have to run a private (read, centralized) blockchain, and how is that different from a regular cryptocurrency exchange in terms of centralization and control over users funds and assets?

Darker45

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Centralized exchanges suck. They literally suck the money out of projects that want their coins to get listed on their platforms. Other than that, they also suck the personal information of their users through their KYC implementation. And then they suck traders with their trading fee and withdrawal fee.

Despite all these, they are quick to delist coins and pairs with low or no trading volume even if listing fees are already paid. They also freeze accounts and hold withdrawals of users despite KYC due to suspicions.

With all these, I wonder why DEXs remain as options when they are clearly way much better than centralized exchanges.

Subbir

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You are right in saying that centralized exchanges can become a drag if cryptocurrency is becoming a world Because they're trying to create a decentralized and decentralized world, these problems can cause many problems. They pay low-interest rates with different banks in their profits. i feel in Binance such a lot but it's no value this is often why these centralized exchanges should be avoided.

googol.star

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Great article, and I think that might be a top two problem in the crypto world. I used to think it was just Binance charging the equivalent of millions of dollars to get listed. I used to hold this coin that had no funding, all community driven. A lot of hope and excitement, except that it's going to go nowhere because to get listed on a major exchange requires hundreds of thousands of dollars that's not available.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: pixie85 on February 08, 2020, 05:23:59 PM

It's strange how much time it takes for people to get familiar with changes and accept them. The first step was making them go from a completely centralized fiat system to semi-decentralized Bitcoin. Now they're slowly getting ready for a completely decentralized system with anonymous cryptocurrencies and DEX.

I'm only afraid that it will take another 20 years and we'll be old farts unable to fully enjoy it when it comes.

Why are you calling Bitcoin "semi-decentralized"? It's pretty much the most decentralized cryptocurrency out there thanks to its node count, hashpower and global community. The ecosystem of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency exchanges is centralized, but it's not caused by any of the Bitcoin's properties, so it's wrong to say that altcoins are the future. And privacy has little to do with decentralization, they are different topics, and usually decentralization is needed to achieve privacy - not the opposite.

pixie85

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Quote from: avatar_kiyoshi on January 26, 2020, 08:25:52 AM

Quote from: Wexnident on January 26, 2020, 07:21:22 AM

Sadly, to build a community around a coin, you'd still need staunch supporters right? And most, if not all, would try and use the money to advertise it so in the end, it falls to the factor of, again, the problem of money.

Besides the lack of promotion and lack of volume, DEX also the trustless system which need require deeper knowledge to control it, this is what the newcomers avoid the platform, plus the UI/UX that are not familiar in the eyes.

It's strange how much time it takes for people to get familiar with changes and accept them. The first step was making them go from a completely centralized fiat system to semi-decentralized Bitcoin. Now they're slowly getting ready for a completely decentralized system with anonymous cryptocurrencies and DEX.

I'm only afraid that it will take another 20 years and we'll be old farts unable to fully enjoy it when it comes.

Averim

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I suppose in Satoshi plans there was no decentralized exchanges. I am not familiar with the profits registered by various DEX but in percentage probably goes hand in hand with the banks(20-30% profit netto).

buwaytress

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I'm not surprised, and I think anyone who's surprised has to be really naive. Of course centralised exchanges are banks. So are the so-called custodians. Biggest wallets have long ago belonged to these people, and BitGo, Coinbase, Binance etc. have only gotten bigger and grown fatter. Sure, that's all funds legally belonging to their users, but you know as well as most of us do, technically, the users have no control over their coins.

And now that many of these exchanges are also offering lending options. They truly are following in the footsteps of banks.

el kaka22

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Of course they are different, I don't get how people think that Banks and centralized exchanges are even remotely the same. Banks are not stock exchanges, at least they are not "just" stock exchanges, they are literally doing loans, savings, investments, insurance and many other stuff with their business plus the ability to have a card where you can spend your money anywhere you go.

Centralized exchanges are just a place where you can change your coin to another coin and that's it, you can also deposit and withdraw, this is literally the only thing you can do with a centralized exchange and that is all you allow them to do. Plus, banks can use your money however they want as long as they can allow you to withdraw, centralize exchanges can't really do that.

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 26, 2020, 06:14:33 AM

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community and then get that community to use a decentralised exchange. The only reason Dex's arn't being used is because there isn't volume there - but that can be solved if an entire community decides to use a particular Dex.

But how many people would be that community must have? it's a good solution to encourage more people to dwell with decentralize exchange, however, how many of them are willing to use it.
The ones that don't have a good experience with one of it, doesn't have the balls to try it again.

charlesmichel1

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The sad remark - this isn't the future Satoshi wanted to see for crypto.
Centralized exchanges have already became bitcoin bank. Users have to do KYC verification.

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Centralized exchanges are no different than any Banks out there, because the operate under the same rules and regulations that are prescribed by their governments.

They are also profit driven financial organizations with shareholders and partners from the financial world. Many of them have worked in the financial industry for years, so it is natural for them to operate in the same manner.

They do not have the goal and aspiration for this technology to grant people financial freedom, because they are purely profit driven. They could care less, as long as they are making a huge profit. They will not even allow you to sign a message with your private key or do it for you, because you are simply a entry on their internal ledger system.

They came into the Bitcoin scene to cash in on the opportunity to make some more money, not to make the on-ramp and off-ramp into Bitcoin easier and more convenient. Angry

AniviaBtc

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Quote from: Janation on February 06, 2020, 07:24:51 PM

Quote from: ScamViruS on February 04, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

This is an extreme fact. Centralized Exchange lists the shitcoin what they want. Centralized exchanges charge huge listings fees from shitcoin. Their work is worse than the bank. If you look well at centralized exchanges. Then you will understand how they are listing shitcoin and dumping it to retail traders. Because they can do whatever they want. The most annoying thing about centralized exchanges is kyc.

It is the worst.

The most reason is that we are using decentralized cryptocurrency because we are wanting to maximize the freedom that we have using them. KYCs are blocking them and we can't do anything about it since if we don't have other choices, we will be doing it. Here in our country, KYC is required to cash out your Bitcoins into fiats, I needed so I did it.

KYC are essential to lessen the risk of being scammed that's why. It is essential for the traders to become aware about their customer to prevent losses during transactions. If you don't want that kind of system, try to go to other countries that have a centralized cryptocurrency. A government will not do some adjustment just for you, if you really want to stay to your country and try to make a changes in crypto, try to promote it. It is true that Centralized Exchange uses most of the shitcoins and dumping in some beginners or newbie traders. That's why we must promote freedom in cryptocurrency by sharing our knowledge and thoughts about the advantages of decentralized cryptocurrency in a country and how it can changes the quality of the people using it.

Janation

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 04, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

This is an extreme fact. Centralized Exchange lists the shitcoin what they want. Centralized exchanges charge huge listings fees from shitcoin. Their work is worse than the bank. If you look well at centralized exchanges. Then you will understand how they are listing shitcoin and dumping it to retail traders. Because they can do whatever they want. The most annoying thing about centralized exchanges is kyc.

It is the worst.

The most reason is that we are using decentralized cryptocurrency because we are wanting to maximize the freedom that we have using them. KYCs are blocking them and we can't do anything about it since if we don't have other choices, we will be doing it. Here in our country, KYC is required to cash out your Bitcoins into fiats, I needed so I did it.

20kevin20

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Quote from: travwill on February 06, 2020, 05:03:34 PM

Personally, I am not happy with the fact that cryptocurrency exchanges have become central links in the distribution of assets of all trading people.
In essence, we have to trade and hold detailed assets on centralized exchanges. We ourselves allow third parties to control our money.
Centralized exchanges are not trustworthy; this has already been proven 1,000 times.

We've been used to the third-party asset storage. It's hard to change that and it's even harder for someone to familiarize with Bitcoin, third-parties vs controlling your own funds and it's very hard especially for a new crypto owner to differentiate between owning your funds on a centralized, server-sided wallet vs a client-sided one.

Every wallet tells you they do not own the private key to your wallets, and people almost always confuse that with decentralization. If a wallet tells you they are not going to hold your private keys, it doesn't mean you're safe. But again, that's part of the crypto adoption challenge and people will hardly get used to it until next generation grows up ..

travwill

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Personally, I am not happy with the fact that cryptocurrency exchanges have become central links in the distribution of assets of all trading people.
In essence, we have to trade and hold detailed assets on centralized exchanges. We ourselves allow third parties to control our money.
Centralized exchanges are not trustworthy; this has already been proven 1,000 times.

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Quote from: ScamViruS on February 04, 2020, 12:46:01 PM

This is an extreme fact. Centralized Exchange lists the shitcoin what they want. Centralized exchanges charge huge listings fees from shitcoin. Their work is worse than the bank. If you look well at centralized exchanges. Then you will understand how they are listing shitcoin and dumping it to retail traders. Because they can do whatever they want. The most annoying thing about centralized exchanges is kyc.

I think "they can do whatever they want" is why centralized exchange is very unhealthy for cryptocurrency. They still even manage to do whatever they want under government regulations. There is low chances of such abuses occurring on well-built decentralized exchange.

jostorres

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For now, centralized exchanges are leading the cryptocurrency space, maybe in the future it would be different and decentralized exchanges would take over and be more popular as centralized exchanges are right now.

I won’t really blame everyone that’s making use of CEX, they are more safe to use than using DEX. When it comes to centralized exchanges the middlemen gets involved and ensures that your transactions are safe and that’s quite unlike Decentralized exchanges, since they are decentralized there are no middlemen, traders trades direct and there are risks of losing money.

ScamViruS

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This is an extreme fact. Centralized Exchange lists the shitcoin what they want. Centralized exchanges charge huge listings fees from shitcoin. Their work is worse than the bank. If you look well at centralized exchanges. Then you will understand how they are listing shitcoin and dumping it to retail traders. Because they can do whatever they want. The most annoying thing about centralized exchanges is kyc.

bearexin

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Mostly centralized exchanges have been made KYC mandatory which might identify each of their user according to their nation, etc. Also these information about our KYC documents might be stored in a centralized server which might be accessible by any of the centralized authorities.

This makes us least safer in terms of cryptocurrency trades and that is the major reason behind why most of the people choose decentralized exchanges over the centralized exchanges. There are a number of exchanges in the markets currently but not each of those exchange has greater volume. We need to choose a exchange which has greater volume, is user-friendly, offers us few unique features like margin trading, etc.

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Quote from: Japinat on February 04, 2020, 08:48:43 AM

Quote from: tbterryboy on February 04, 2020, 08:41:45 AM

Most of the people would not even care if it is a CEX or a DEX i....

I think you are wrong, most of the people care on what exchange they will use, if you total all the daily volume of Centralized exchange, it would at least total to $5 billion, (That's my own estimate only).. while compare to the DEX, their combine volume does not even reach $100 million or even $10 million.
Binance DEX as of now only have less than $1 million trading volume, so that speaks what people really like to use.

Just a typical thing when we do compare the volume between CEX and DEX. We do know that dex ones doesnt really have that Fiat/Crypto pair and we know that majority of us
does really need that kind of feature which are absent on dexes thats why we do end up on using cex platforms due to that main reason.
Everybody loves anonymity and decentralization but there are things that can really be considered as an exception due to our needs.

Japinat

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Quote from: tbterryboy on February 04, 2020, 08:41:45 AM

Most of the people would not even care if it is a CEX or a DEX i....

I think you are wrong, most of the people care on what exchange they will use, if you total all the daily volume of Centralized exchange, it would at least total to $5 billion, (That's my own estimate only).. while compare to the DEX, their combine volume does not even reach $100 million or even $10 million.
Binance DEX as of now only have less than $1 million trading volume, so that speaks what people really like to use.

tbterryboy

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Quote from: gentlemand on February 03, 2020, 07:06:21 PM

Quote from: aioc on February 03, 2020, 07:03:59 PM

It's really about time that one decentralized exchange lead the way for this battle against these centralized exchange, they are the one who made the most profit in this industry, look at the number of ICO based exchange they are growing and looking to get a slice of the market, Binance has become an imposing monster in the community with their huge fee.

It's up to users to migrate, however from what I've seen so far nothing out there really cuts it other than Bisq and no one is using that either.

It needs to be properly decentralised for starters - ie not tied to a domain name or hosting as that can be hijacked.

As we've seen time and again most people want to centralise for the sake of convenience and hand holding. The ones who want to shun it are noble outliers.

What people might care about is their security and assurity that their funds would not be stolen or hacked. There are a number of exchanges out there but not each of them is secure to transact. There are only few exchanges which offers us complete security which are chosen by the people.

Most of the people would not even care if it is a CEX or a DEX if the exchange is giving them benefits, they would join in. What people needs is benefits. They are with trading only because they need to earn a decent amount of money and hence they would only go for exchanges which might show them unique but best features.

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Quote from: Jating on February 03, 2020, 09:56:34 PM

Checking out bisq, $79,232.82 USD

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bisq/

I guess we are really that far on people using DEX like bisq because almost majority thinks that CEX is the only exchanges that exists out there. The promotions of those top tier CEX is what really pushes out DEX of the picture and not gaining traction specially for newbies

Personally, I don't think this is the case here

DEX's have been known since at east 2015 as this is when BitShares came about which became bisq later (correct me if I'm wrong here). So it is not like they are completely unknown to the wider trading public, while the root of the problem lies somewhere else. And I can tell you where exactly. The sad truth is that these so-called decentralized exchanges are not truly decentralized at all, whatever they may claim to the contrary

They are as centralized as any other exchange out there but on a completely different level. Regular cryptocurrency exchanges are centralized on the currency level by holding the private keys to the trader account wallets, while decentralized exchanges maintain control over the blockchain itself which is the backbone of the whole shop. Put shortly, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other

Jating

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Checking out bisq, $79,232.82 USD

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bisq/

I guess we are really that far on people using DEX like bisq because almost majority thinks that CEX is the only exchanges that exists out there. The promotions of those top tier CEX is what really pushes out DEX of the picture and not gaining traction specially for newbies.

And unless we here another exchanges being hacked, exit scamming, beginners are not going to learn DEX, in my opinion.

gentlemand

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Quote from: aioc on February 03, 2020, 07:03:59 PM

It's really about time that one decentralized exchange lead the way for this battle against these centralized exchange, they are the one who made the most profit in this industry, look at the number of ICO based exchange they are growing and looking to get a slice of the market, Binance has become an imposing monster in the community with their huge fee.

It's up to users to migrate, however from what I've seen so far nothing out there really cuts it other than Bisq and no one is using that either.

It needs to be properly decentralised for starters - ie not tied to a domain name or hosting as that can be hijacked.

As we've seen time and again most people want to centralise for the sake of convenience and hand holding. The ones who want to shun it are noble outliers.

aioc

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 26, 2020, 06:14:33 AM

https://www.ccn.com/the-dark-side-of-becoming-the-next-bitcoin/

Quote

Your favorite altcoin’s path to becoming the “next Bitcoin” is a lot more treacherous than you think.

The CEO of uPlexa (UPX) told CCN.com about the financial and ethical minefield faced by upstart altcoin projects in the cryptocurrency industry. Kyle Pierce – the project’s co-founder and lead developer – paints a miserable picture of an industry that may already have been taken over by its worst people.

The “king-making” ability of centralized exchanges is no secret. The CEO of DigiByte (DGB) claims he was asked for $300,000, plus 3% of his 58th ranked altcoin’s entire coin supply, to get listed on Binance.

The demands made of the 1,371st-ranked uPlexa were equally outrageous. According to Pierce:

We’ve had offers for 50% of the premine to get listed on an exchange. 50% of our premine that’s allocated to exchange listings, marketing, hiring, founding team, core members, security audits, etc. They somehow believe that one hour of their time is worth nearly 6,000+ of our current man hours into this project.

Pierce says the saturation of centralized exchanges is making matters worse. Over 1,500 exchanges now compete for the same territory. As that number increases, the desperation of each rises accordingly.

There’s 1500+ centralized exchanges that offer the exact same service, and they’re starting to lose volume. So they artificially boost the volume and hire VA’s to go around soliciting every team member of every project in hopes to quickly make a quick buck before their watering hole dries up.

These exchanges have become a choke-point for the cryptocurrency industry. The only way to get listed is to play their game. That means new cryptocurrency projects have their development plans dictated to them before they’ve even begun.

For projects who did not participate in the IEO/ICO stages and have no funding, it is nearly impossible to get listed on an exchange. So, firstly, not only are people predominantly trading on centralized exchanges in a decentralized area, but the exchanges that are making huge sums of money are killing off the potential for real-world technologies to get noticed/adopted.

Another exchange told Pierce they would be happy to list his project, if only they moved away from “the whole privacy thing.”

There is a lot more in that article about the perils of launching a coin.

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community and then get that community to use a decentralised exchange. The only reason Dex's arn't being used is because there isn't volume there - but that can be solved if an entire community decides to use a particular Dex.

It's really about time that one decentralized exchange lead the way for this battle against these centralized exchange, they are the one who made the most profit in this industry, look at the number of ICO based exchange they are growing and looking to get a slice of the market, Binance has become an imposing monster in the community with their huge fee.

Japinat

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Not totally yet, only few of the total number of centralized exchanges have that features where we can deposit and withdraw usd.

Based on my experience, I have only tried Bittrex which I did transfer money from such exchange to my bank account which I can spend the balance through my ATM card, that process alone is good, its just like banking fiat, so hopefully more banks will get license from the government so they can fully give the comfort to their clients to easily convert bitcoin to fiat and be useful in daily lives.

shield132

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Well, they are becoming at some point because for example on bitcoin's case, exchanges hold more bitcoin than ever. According to article that was published on longhash, coinbase holds 1 million bitcoin in it's cold wallet. That's bad cause not your keys, not your coins and that's 100% right without doubt, crypto isn't something that gives you ability to request chargeback and etc.
Let's move on OPs post, there is a problem of exchanges not accepting altcoins? When there is demand, there is supply. Imagine exchange not accepting btc, ether and others, their popularity would fall dramatically and their business too. These developers have to create demand on their coins and you have to make situation like if exchange doesn't accept it, they'll lose a lot. That's hard to do...
There are 6686 according to coinmarketcap, 95% of them are more than shit. From that 5%, 4% is shit. In 1% you may find some really good.

beerlover

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And I am not really against it as long as they do it right. The difference between central exchanges and banks is the fact that banks do not have the money they claim they do, whereas central exchanges all have that money, sure they are making a profit from just holding your coins, yet that doesn't change the fact that they still have it on their cold storage or on hot wallets just so they can withdraw.

The biggest example here could be the fact that every single person can withdraw all of their money from binance and even tho it may take some time to withdraw, they will be capable of doing it, if every single person wants to withdraw their fiat from the banks, banks won't be able to give that kind of money to people since they actually don't posses it on their vaults.

Edit: Sorry accidentally deleted but re-posted.

gentlemand

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Quote from: ?? on ??

And I am not really against it as long as they do it right. The difference between central exchanges and banks is the fact that banks do not have the money they claim they do, whereas central exchanges all have that money, sure they are making a profit from just holding your coins, yet that doesn't change the fact that they still have it on their cold storage or on hot wallets just so they can withdraw.

Well, that's the great unknown. I'm sure places like Coinbase would quickly get whistles blown if giant holes were found in their claimed holdings. I couldn't say the same for many of the other 'top' exchanges. We have zero idea what's going on behind closed doors.

We're still transitioning into respectability. Look at Coinbase's BCH launch. If that was in the area of conventional finance they'd be nailed to fucking the wall for it.

I expect in future there'll be 10-15 titans worldwide with legacy investment and owners that decides what becomes top tier and what doesn't. Below that I don't think the tidal wave of nothing exchanges will ever let up.

If your coin manages to blow up the world organically then you'll have an in. There'll be no more buying or tricking your way to prominence.

hello_good_sir

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It's true. But it's actually a lot damaging to the crypto-space because businesses or people who want to bank with banks aren't charged such huge amounts of money to work with them. Whilst any top exchange charges anywhere from $100,000 to $500,000, not including the altcoins they receive. It's a very monopolistic approach towards things, and it's one of the biggest issues that people face in crypto, as exchanges are so crucial for development.

However with these prices and the chokehold that these exchanges have on the market and future growth, it'll be impossible for some projects to get off the ground, and it may completely decimate the start-up aspect of crypto-currencies, as such high numbers are only affordable for already developed businesses, or ones with huge amounts of institutional investments.

The future growth will be heavily determined by how exchanges and DEXs will dominate.

The Sceptical Chymist

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If you assume this statement is true:

Quote

For projects who did not participate in the IEO/ICO stages and have no funding, it is nearly impossible to get listed on an exchange.

Then these following quotes don't make a hell of a lot of sense if you consider that the article specifically states that there are over 1500 exchanges in existence, all desperate for projects to get their coins listed on them:

Quote

The CEO of DigiByte (DGB) claims he was asked for $300,000, plus 3% of his 58th ranked altcoin’s entire coin supply, to get listed on Binance.

Quote

The demands made of the 1,371st-ranked uPlexa were equally outrageous. According to Pierce: We’ve had offers for 50% of the premine to get listed on an exchange.

It seems to me that the advantage should be going to the coin devs as far as getting listed on an exchange. If one of them is asking for an outrageous fee, it should be easy enough to say to them, "Screw you, I'll just list it on some other exchange".

On the other hand, it does explain why lesser-quality coins are only listed on obscure exchanges. Try buying Gridcoin if you want to stake it. SouthXchange is basically your only option. Reddcoin? It's listed on only about four exchanges. So I'm definitely not saying I disagree with this article, because it makes good points. I just wish there were more details given about which exchanges were trying to extort coin devs. Naming names can be problematic for journalists (and devs) but still.

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 26, 2020, 06:14:33 AM

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community

It has always been the only lasting solution

When Satoshi created Bitcoin, there was nothing, no cryptocurrency exchange to list it on, no online casino to add it to the list of supported coins, even no major news outlet to write about it. But it still succeeded in the end. Those who want to start their own coin should be more focused on how useful it will be to people and what advantages it has to offer over the competition. If it gains success, exchanges will line up to list it on their own

davis196

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Newly launched altcoin projects are desperate for one thing-promotion.
Listing them on a well known crypto exchange platform will bring them lots of new traders.
Paying for advertising/promotion is completely normal and,if you think about it,it's a form of quality control.
Do you want every newly launched shitcoin to get free advertising and exposure on all big crypto exchange platforms?That would be a disaster for the traders and a blessing for the shtcoin developers,who want fast pump&dump profits.

hello_good_sir

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Absolutely, and the degree of centrality that these exchanges introduce to the cryptospace is absolutely mind boggling in terms of the effects that they will potentially have.

It goes without saying that these centralized exchanges are prone to attacks the way that decentralized cryptos are simply designed to circumvent. The risk of the middleman within a transaction essentially gets reintroduced as soon as people start using third parties.

I'm not say that it's possible to eliminate all of them, but the pushes towards DEXs is definitely warranted and needed.

wozzek23

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Yes that’s the truth but it wouldn’t be the same when the government starts to create their own cryptocurrencies, all these centralized exchanges might not be the ones that would be in control of government issued cryptocurrency, maybe they will, but not really like you think. At that time banks will evolve to something bigger and exchange to their services I guess, that way people will be able to buy the assets from their online banking app and also sell it when they want to and convert to original currency.

teosanru

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This actually is true and quite worrying too. No matter what we say top exchanges today are actually controlling major flow of Cryptocurrencies and these are based solely on trust and fidelity. There are absolutely no norms made for them. But we as an investor and users are actually out of options. DEX are extremely time consuming and boring. Moreover most of them these days are bot driven which makes them even less lucrative. Moreover coming yo the part that many alts are merely trading commodities I think this pretty much holds true for a few years only. There were many vague companies during the dot com bubble but only a few survived which actually were based for utilities and same would happen in Cryptocurrencies too only those with some utility would survive rest would be dumping sooner or later.

royalfestus

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Centralized exchanges are very efficient and basically the most active unit of cryptocurrency. Developments are now going into crypto to fiat exchange, wherebye giving access to easy cash out, either through bank ATM or mobile app that links to banks. This also give more physical interaction for all holders and reduce the stigma attached to virtual coin, also improve the process of crypto purchase, Although cryptocurrency has the reduced address as virtual coin.

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Quote from: hugeblack on January 27, 2020, 01:49:25 PM

Although the central platforms are worse than banks, the cryptocurrencies (most of shitcoins) that want to be listed are worse than paper money, so I agree with any restrictions that are added even if they are greedy from the platform.

Many cryptos have no future and they are pumping/dumping models. thus may lead you to lose your money in the long run.
Therefore, it is reasonable to place strict restrictions on them, as it is the duty of governments to place restrictions on these platforms.

A lot of crypto creators find a way to earn quick money without divulging their identities. So you are right that somehow we need strict regulations to lessen if not eradicate these scammers. If they will just use blockchain projects in the rightful manner and not be abusive about it, we will not need these centralized exchanges.

hugeblack

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Although the central platforms are worse than banks, the cryptocurrencies (most of shitcoins) that want to be listed are worse than paper money, so I agree with any restrictions that are added even if they are greedy from the platform.

Many cryptos have no future and they are pumping/dumping models. thus may lead you to lose your money in the long run.
Therefore, it is reasonable to place strict restrictions on them, as it is the duty of governments to place restrictions on these platforms.

Wysi

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Quote from: bangjoe on January 27, 2020, 08:23:24 AM

the decision can not be one-sided only from the community, but from how each DEX developer to improve the quality of the platform, not only by providing a place and only packaged in a simple way without things that make users comfortable and competitive, the article only discusses the understanding of listings coins on a particular exchange without offering something as an active solution.

Yes indeed, DEX should be partially blamed as well for indirectly pushing users towards centralized exchanges as DEX lacks the basic quality required for a smooth transactions and they need to learn from centralized exchanges and try implementing the features and interface available at centralized exchange as that's the only way to stop migration of users to CEX and we cannot blame CEX for their rules as it's upto us whether we want to indulge or not.

bangjoe

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the decision can not be one-sided only from the community, but from how each DEX developer to improve the quality of the platform, not only by providing a place and only packaged in a simple way without things that make users comfortable and competitive, the article only discusses the understanding of listings coins on a particular exchange without offering something as an active solution.

target

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Its making the industry worse. Asking 50% of the premined tokens just to get listed is really not acceptable but to some desperate teams wanting to make their investors happy would probably just give it to the exchange. Its no wonder now that more exchanges are created since 2017 up to today since its listing-to-coins business.

Now that centralize exchanges are pushing all to the edge, its really a good time to make Dex work for us all. If there are just more users concerned to privacy, we could have been giving more volume to trading in dex.

ajiz138

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regarding the centralization of the bank which is the center of crypto exchange, I don't think that will be possible. Obviously the banking system, although it has adopted a blockchain system, is definitely different from the actual crypto system. If that happens, there will be a massive capitalization and monopoly by one party, and will even trigger a dispute.
Is cryypto created by banking people? the answer is no, in essence crypto is made for fun in technology. That is all

Harriti

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HEX: Longer pays better

Quote from: alyssa85 on January 26, 2020, 06:14:33 AM

https://www.ccn.com/the-dark-side-of-becoming-the-next-bitcoin/

There is a lot more in that article about the perils of launching a coin.

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community and then get that community to use a decentralised exchange. The only reason Dex's arn't being used is because there isn't volume there - but that can be solved if an entire community decides to use a particular Dex.

Yes, this is also a good idea. I also think we should not be controlled by anyone. DEX is really great when we trade from our own wallets to exchange with others, developers only provide the platform for us and in addition they do not keep any assets of traders. It's a very good thing and I feel very comfortable and safe when trading at DEXs like IDEX, Binance DEX, Forkdelta. But in order for this to come true, new DEXs in the future should reduce transaction fees, providing even more functions.

liuqi

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This is the most negatives spreading website for centralised coins and cryptocurrency market.
You don't believe my words you may go and check their previous six months of news articles about cryptocurrency to understand how they troll all cryptocurrency as much they can.
If you better article you may share it here Wink

alyssa85

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Quote from: mu_enrico on January 27, 2020, 07:16:45 AM

It's difficult for a small community coin to grow if there is no "purge" event.

Yes I agree. What needs to happen is that a lot of these shitcoins need to die a death, freeing up the space for the good coins.

But - and this is the connundrum - as long as a coin is listed, it's alive and will be kept alive by various pump-and-dump artists. So really we need some of the exchanges to die as well, taking some coins with them.

mu_enrico

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C'mon man, some of them are worse than banks. There is no pump and dump, flash crash, stupid listing fees, etc., in traditional banks. We could argue that the regulated one is somewhat safer. However, KYC makes it uncomfortable since you have to give up a passport, selfie, etc., well, it is then become similar to banks as well with a lesser reputation for data breach.

About listing fees, as others said, it is because of too many shitcoins competing to get listed for the pump. It's difficult for a small community coin to grow if there is no "purge" event.

alyssa85

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Quote from: squatz1 on January 26, 2020, 11:37:02 AM

Centralized Exchanges are the banks of the crypto world, if you let them become that. In my mind, if you build a great coin with great features (think of something like XMR), then you're going to get the exchanges to accept you without having to dump tons of money on exchange fees. This is the thought process of 'if you build it, they'll come'

But that is not what is happening, sadly. You can have the best coin in the world, but they won't list it unless a) you pay them money or b) you have proved there is so much volume on a Dex, that they list it anyway to get a cut of the fees on the trading volume.

In order for b) to happen, you need a huge community. It's hard to build a community in the cryotocurrency world because there is no central place any longer where you can gain followers. It used to be this forum, but it's now fragmented into several subreddits, twitter, facebook and elsewhere.

Darooghe

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It's true. the centralized exchanges have been manipulating markets for too long. storing large amounts of crypto on a wallet that you don't have keys to is the most foolish thing an investor could do. Now all these exchanges are encouraging staking on their platforms in return for a small percentage in annual interest and who know what they're doing with all those staked coins. What is the difference between a savings account paying you interest and these exchanges paying you interest. It's literally the exact same thing.

merchantofzeny

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They basically get all the benefits of being a bank without the additional responsibilities. I don't know how a decentralized exchange would work but I think it's the way to go to avoid the perils of using centralized exchanges, namely government surveillance and possibility of data breaches.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 26, 2020, 06:14:33 AM

There is a lot more in that article about the perils of launching a coin.

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community and then get that community to use a decentralised exchange. The only reason Dex's arn't being used is because there isn't volume there - but that can be solved if an entire community decides to use a particular Dex.

How much of his stash did Satoshi give to exchanges to get Bitcoin listed? Oh wait, it's zero because exchanges listed it for free. The solution is clear - build and they shall come. The guy from the article complains about oversaturation of exchanges, but there's also oversaturation of shitcoins, hence why exchanges can charge big buck for getting a shitcoin listed there. If a project is indeed honest and all around good, it shouldn't matter if its listed or not, people will find ways of exchanging it and using it.

outatime1

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Centralized exchanges have the upper hand because there aren't any decentralized ones yet. Or at least I don't think they are active yet. I know that there are some in the works, but I think it could be this year before they go live.

btccashacc

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I somehow agree that centralized exchange already became bitcoin bank, because most of the users are now using those centralized exchanges and have been upload their details in order to verificate their account, we can't avoid using echange without verifivation because they will limit some features such a minimum withdrawing or even do a trade.

squatz1

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Flying Hellfish is a Commie

Centralized Exchanges are the banks of the crypto world, if you let them become that. In my mind, if you build a great coin with great features (think of something like XMR), then you're going to get the exchanges to accept you without having to dump tons of money on exchange fees. This is the thought process of 'if you build it, they'll come'

So this means instead of building from the top down (the top being exchanges) you have to built from the bottom up. This is going to take more time, more people, more resources in developing, and so on and so forth but you're going to be rewarded in saving on the exchange fees. A coin like XMR, builds itself in local communites first -- showing that it is a coin that is like cash again, anonymous. That's obviously going to be loved by regular people who value their privacy, people who are protecting their government, people doing shady things (drugs online, etc), online drug marketplaces, etc.

Now that you've built yourself into the community, the exchanges are going to slowly come. From the shitty / scammy ones, to the ones that are legitimate and big and have the volume required. At first you're probably going to have to run your own exchange -- a simple btc to XMR (or whatever your coin is here) conversion that people do manually (requires a good deal of trust)

They are the banks, but you can do a lot to dethrone them.

Ucy

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Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

This is probably so because they are trying to mix the two worlds: centralized and decentralized worlds. You will only end up bringing in the problems associated with centralization (real crypto enthusiasts are trying to solve) into decentralized world. It's hard to be a good person in a centralized setup...hence the need to avoid/reduce it as much as possible.

fiulpro

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Indirectly - yes ofc

But at the same time most of the time these exchanges are the place where the buyer and seller meet each other and strike a deal and I think it's just like a market where you don't have to hunt for what you want and just go and see that everything is there. I think it is completely safe for it to be seen like that since it is rather important one and actually is something that does have a hand in making the market bigger and more popular.

avatar_kiyoshi

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Quote from: Wexnident on January 26, 2020, 07:21:22 AM

Sadly, to build a community around a coin, you'd still need staunch supporters right? And most, if not all, would try and use the money to advertise it so in the end, it falls to the factor of, again, the problem of money.

Besides the lack of promotion and lack of volume, DEX also the trustless system which need require deeper knowledge to control it, this is what the newcomers avoid the platform, plus the UI/UX that are not familiar in the eyes.

Wexnident

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I don't request loans~

I guess you can say that the saying "Money makes the world go round" still holds true even in the crypto scene. Dex is not much used since one, there isn't really a DEX out there that is as well known as the top CEX's we have like Binance. Two, DEX just doesn't offer what CEX can offer. This makes CEX much more appealing, and over time, the market that was supposed to have been gotten by DEX went to CEX.

Sadly, to build a community around a coin, you'd still need staunch supporters right? And most, if not all, would try and use the money to advertise it so in the end, it falls to the factor of, again, the problem of money.

alyssa85

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https://www.ccn.com/the-dark-side-of-becoming-the-next-bitcoin/

Quote

Your favorite altcoin’s path to becoming the “next Bitcoin” is a lot more treacherous than you think.

The CEO of uPlexa (UPX) told CCN.com about the financial and ethical minefield faced by upstart altcoin projects in the cryptocurrency industry. Kyle Pierce – the project’s co-founder and lead developer – paints a miserable picture of an industry that may already have been taken over by its worst people.

The “king-making” ability of centralized exchanges is no secret. The CEO of DigiByte (DGB) claims he was asked for $300,000, plus 3% of his 58th ranked altcoin’s entire coin supply, to get listed on Binance.

The demands made of the 1,371st-ranked uPlexa were equally outrageous. According to Pierce:

We’ve had offers for 50% of the premine to get listed on an exchange. 50% of our premine that’s allocated to exchange listings, marketing, hiring, founding team, core members, security audits, etc. They somehow believe that one hour of their time is worth nearly 6,000+ of our current man hours into this project.

Pierce says the saturation of centralized exchanges is making matters worse. Over 1,500 exchanges now compete for the same territory. As that number increases, the desperation of each rises accordingly.

There’s 1500+ centralized exchanges that offer the exact same service, and they’re starting to lose volume. So they artificially boost the volume and hire VA’s to go around soliciting every team member of every project in hopes to quickly make a quick buck before their watering hole dries up.

These exchanges have become a choke-point for the cryptocurrency industry. The only way to get listed is to play their game. That means new cryptocurrency projects have their development plans dictated to them before they’ve even begun.

For projects who did not participate in the IEO/ICO stages and have no funding, it is nearly impossible to get listed on an exchange. So, firstly, not only are people predominantly trading on centralized exchanges in a decentralized area, but the exchanges that are making huge sums of money are killing off the potential for real-world technologies to get noticed/adopted.

Another exchange told Pierce they would be happy to list his project, if only they moved away from “the whole privacy thing.”

There is a lot more in that article about the perils of launching a coin.

The only solution it seems to me, is to build a community and then get that community to use a decentralised exchange. The only reason Dex's arn't being used is because there isn't volume there - but that can be solved if an entire community decides to use a particular Dex.

Topic: Centralized exchanges have become the banks of the cryptocurrency world (Read 1165 times)