Topic: Charlie Lee: Chinese bitcoin FUD is whale manipulation (Read 1987 times)

I agree. Those investors are just really new and just started to put investment in bitcoin thinking that they can easily make profit. But the first sign that there's a FUD's, they are the one who dump the coin first and exit because they are afraid that they will lose their money. But if you are here long enough, its clear that those FUD are used to create panic in the market and entities behind do this to manipulate the price of bitcoin to their advantage, so that they can bought it at a discounted price.

What it happens is that most people investing in bitcoin do not really understand bitcoin and its future, while I’m not an expert either at least I know enough to understand that bitcoin is going to become very big in the future so it is better that I keep all my bitcoin no matter what happens, any profit that I could get now by selling my bitcoin is going to be minuscule compared to what I can get in the future.

in case someone missed it, the "rumor" or the FUD was that China has banned bitcoin and the FUDsters didn't stop there, they started creating panic in people that China is going to ban bitcoin mining too and close down miners and kill bitcoin.
although this is nothing new but it was effective for a while before people realize that what China did was close down exchanges for money laundering and ban ICOs for scamming people out of a lot of money.

they ended by the way, a while ago.

The Chinese will close all the exchanges end of this month. So there will be no more rumours.

Here is the latest Chinese fud:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-12/bitcoin-explodes-5600-30-end-chinas-golden-week-holiday

If you thought it was all finally ended when China closed the exchanges, think again. We're going to have endless rumours about how they are going to open the exchanges again, even though no sensible country bans and then reopens things on a six-monthly basis over and over.

Correct, but the best part is that we do not need to get as much bitcoin, as I said if you have a single bitcoin you are in better shape than 99% of the whole world, now I will not expect to become rich with only one bitcoin but if you have that amount now, how much bitcoin are you going to have in the future? I think I will be able to get something like 10 or 20 bitcoin in the next 5 years and if hold them I know that my future is going to be secured.

I can virtually guarantee you that you will never be able to buy a Bitcoin for $1800, or even $2500 again.  It's more likely that it will crash & burn in one fell swoop overnight... that someone(s) will break the system and make off with all the loot.  Kind of like when Congress was missing something like 3.2 Trillion dollars and nobody had any idea where it went.  There will be an investigation that is just for show that will go nowhere.  Nobody will seemingly have any idea what happened, and then it will just go away.

Sorry, that was kind of extreme.  I'm not saying that will happen, just that I see it as more likely than the price dipping down to that level ever again.  I think we'll see another climb similar to the one that took it to 5K in the first place, and it'll get to about 7K and hover there for a little.  When people see the growth freeze, even drop a tad, many will sell off their shares causing a slight drop.  But if history/trends should tell us anything it's that the declines are never as bad as we think they'll be... at least they haven't been as steep as I expected them to be.  So many people have confidence in Bitcoin that the vast majority will hold onto their shares, and even keep buying more whenever they have extra cash to invest regardless of what's going on at the time, because they believe it will rise again in the long term.  And this is the 2'nd smartest way to go about things next to having a crystal ball that will allow you to be right every time as to when to buy or sell, or can manage to make the right educated guesses anyhow.  Well, after seeing myself just type that now, I'd have to say I have them backwards as to which is the smartest measure.  And make no mistake confidence is what matters, more than anything.  People have the misconception that fiat money/currency is less valuable, tangible, etc... than a physical asset, like gold... something you can touch.  But that fallible logic.  If people have more confidence in thin air than they do in gold, then 1 ounce of thin air will be worth more than 1 ounce of gold.  So will some numbers on a computer screen ultimately consisting of nothing more than a string of 1's & 0's.  That's how it always has, does, and always will work, but it's amazing how many people don't realize it.  I think that even people that work on Wall St. for a living forget it sometimes.  Truly astounding.    

The news out of China is true, but it's also largely irrelevant.  The govt. doesn't want their people being able to make money that they can't control or tax.  But that govt. and the .001 percenters/elite are pulling their money and investing instead.  I wouldn't even doubt if China is selling off some of it's gold reserves to convert it to Bitcoins.  They won't report any of it so how could we know.  But they're short sighted.  It's only hurting their economy in the long run.  People that are unemployed and can't find work, or just don't want to, what most of them can do is use a computer.  They can make a living off of Bitcoins.  This grows the size of the middle class, lessens the size of the poor, renders unemployment rates more moot than they otherwise would be, and most of that money will find it's way right back into their local economy and businesses.  The leaders of America are crafty enough to realize all of this thankfully and see the big picture.  Of course it's also a natural benefit of a free market society over, well, what they have over there.

Everything that happens is the result of manipulation from higher hand, which shouldn't be anything new, or is it for you? These entities are in fact whales (i.e. wealthy traders/investors). This market is infested with short term gamblers that are very easily tricked into believing whatever fud, and thus sell as result. It's something that works time on time again, and for that reason, will continue to happen as long as people don't change their mentality and understanding of this market.

Well said, but this is very taft job. So getting that much rich is not possible for regular traders and people. Only, people with special skills can do this.

Whales are part of any capitalist system, what bitcoin is doing is giving a set of rules to everyone that way those that become rich do so because of their own merits and not out of corruption or something like that, you can become a whale too, but you need to be incredible smart and hard working to do it, just look around there are only going to be 21 million coins which means that most people are never going to have a bitcoin, if you have one you are in a better position that most people in the world.

You are just new to the game if you think it's just whales who manipulate. You can't trust anyone in this cryptocurrency world because majority of news that are spreading out are intended to manipulate bitcoin users. You can only trust yourself and believe in bitcoin.

That's total bullshit that only those who think Kim is a god could believe in.
North Korea has maybe 10 warheads in their whole arsenal so if they started to nuke people for using Bitcoin or anything else they'd quickly run out. Also if they ever launch at a neighboring country the USA will launch at them. Kim is done it's just a matter of time before he destroys his country.

North Korea announced just now that if they find people using Bitcoin they will nuke the shit out of them where ever they are, China ban Bitcoin or not, nothing is changed for the rest of the world. if mining gets banned in China then it should be the same in any country. they all are thinking about regulating crypto currencies but banning them wont work because it's not possible to know exactly how many people are using them and where they are.

The FUD did work and that fact cannot be denied. I only pitied the gullible new investors who panicked and allowed themselves to be played by the Chinese whales. It is not a new thing since we always have market manipulators and Jamie (JP Morgan CEO) also contributed a little bit to it so as to buy at a lower price. Hopefully, some people must have learned their lessons with this.

people read too much into these things in my opinion. they build some kind of big evil out of the government, specially the foreign government for themselves and then explain every actions they make based on that assumption.

imagine an online shop selling goods (like clothes, computer hardware,...) and this shop handles 50 million dollar sales every day. now do you think this shop can continue working with dollar without license and with no regulation? the answer becomes so clear when you look at it like that, isn't it?

I have been  saying this several times that the news of China banning bitcoin mining and exchangers activities is a whales manipulation to create panic for the amateurs to sell their coins at lose and for them to buy at cheap prices.

He's right as many sources are now saying that Chinese ban is temporary and they will resume trading at some point. The price has also recovered, which proves that investors aren't afraid of the Chinese stance. They have initially tested this tactic in 2014, when they started closing down exchanges and saw the price go down with each announcement they made. There were 3 or 4 within maybe 2 months, which just added into the downtrend. People made money back then and they made money now. We can expect more FUD from china in future.

It doesn't really surprise me if this is the case. We know that whales have influenced Bitcoin prices on some exchanges in the past so it is possible.  

I also wondered that even if China was trying to ban Bitcoin that it was for nefarious reasons like the Chinese government wanted make their own cryptocurrency and force their citizens to use it. Or the Chinese government wants the price to drop in order for them to stock up on Bitcoin before making it legal again. Essentially this would make the Chinese government a whale manipulating the price.

On top of the Twitter post that was posted by OP weeks ago, I find this article very interesting:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/china-will-likely-resume-cryptocurrency-trading-by-licensing-bitcoin-exchanges/amp/

It's very possible that China was testing how powerful their influence was and they are attempting to regulate the trades that will happen in the future only on exchanges they license. We may even see taxes on BTC introduced in China.

See? I've told this many times that they were just fud'ing about everything right from the start as I understand them very well. They have greed in their blood and can do whatever it takes to shake off the markets to show them that they have now removed themselves out of the game, but they are preparing for maybe a hidden attack soon? This now becomes a question of security to the whole community and I think that this bitcoin gold may also be having few links attached to their plans as well.

The forum is Chinese and I never heard from them stating that China really has what kind of action to ban. It seems to me that it really is fake. Whales are constantly spreading the news constantly and then become even more rich. Those who sell their coins during the panic not only loses his money but makes things easier for the whales to destabilize the situation on the market in the future.

This is delusional game theory. 99% of governments have never colluded to do anything, this time it will not be any different. Someone's ban is someone's else gain, meaning that, if a country bans it, another (smarter) country realizes they can now have a bigger piece of the bitcoin pie.

What will be fun is when all of the countries that previously banned it realize their mistake and unban it again, pushing the price up further.

I also agree with that. Bitcoin gave us an advantage wherein we can all benefit and it is open for everyone not only for a selected few. With that being said, the market already coped up with banning and FUD it got over last September. The price is really going strong as of today its value is $4390 and it might really be nearing at $5000 before November.

Charlie Lee was right all along. There are really big entities behind that manipulated and take advantage and twist the story when China announced the ICO banning. And they are very successful in doing so because the price plummeted to $2900 sending shockwaves to the market. However, when all the dust has settled, we realized that's is pure manipulation and they FUD they created put a lot of investors uncomfortable that's why they immediately push the sell button without realizing what really going on. Its really sad though but I'm sure they have regretted their decisions and buy bitcoin back resulting in the recovery of the price is such short span of time.

It did work initially, till the market realized that it was doing the wrong thing - this China announcement dump behavior is repetitive. It's almost a cycle. Currently it may look like things have calmed down, which did indeed happen, but it just takes another announcement coming from China to trigger another selloff. It's stupid that the market falls each time China farts, but as long as people don't realize that China isn't what's thriving Bitcoin anymore, this will continue - people here are too busy focusing on gambling their wealth in this market.

We can't take away the fact that there is a group people trying to manipulate the price of Bitcoin and any other kind of currencies in the world as it is a profitable way for them, it is just that many people believe it fast and act so scared and started to sell their holdings without even trying to clarify if the said news is true or not, even the world's most reliable media networks can report some fake news cause there is no perfect in this world.

If you really trust the future of Bitcoin there is no need for you to doubt it as every now and then it always stays strong and keep on upgrading for the better good. I am holding the days that bitcoin's price plummeted and I don't even bother with that because I believe that it will be bouncing back soon and it really happened.

I think the fud is not working now as the price is already $4400. The bitcoin is more than many people think.

Yes,china's actions against bitcoin was a golden opportunity for big whales to spread FUD so that they could once again buy more bitcoins at cheap price.They know very well that already bitcoin investors all over the world are already concerned about china's policy on bitcoin.So,even a small spark of negative news about china would create a great price fall in bitcoin.So,the big whales just made use of it and filled their pockets.

Yes,its another golden opportunity for big whales to spread FUD and create panic selling to buy cheaper bitcoins.These big whales are continuously getting opportunities like BU,then BCC and now china's ban.This time,its working good for them as it is logic for any one to believe that china would ban bitcoin.But now,it has started to settle and bitcoin price is now $3,960.Its a great time once again for big whales.

This is the plain old truth which people refused to work with and resulted in a huge dip of bitcoin and many other altcoins because people are usually fooled with such FUD but it's good to see that people like Charlie Lee with some influence/following come out in the open to get the record straight to stop this artificial manipulation from going on. Great to see prices rising once again 

Closing down exchanges is a big step by the Chinese government. The government must have taken into account the fact that this will unnerve a lot of people. Now they will see how the market reacts before taking further action.

the annoying thing about charlie's comments is that the exchange ban wasn't FUD, and that's what drove the price down below $3000. the market didn't react all that much to the FUD about the potential bans on mining and the network itself. i'm tempted to say that the market was already headed there anyway, and that the china news just helped it along.

i will note that btcdrak is the one who dropped the rumor about the government plan to block the network....


previous times, it was only rumors. this time, they acted harshly and swiftly. i'm still not sure whether i believe that we are in the clear now regarding more action from the chinese government. but the tweets from charlie do make me feel a bit better.

yeah but what you call "problems" are nothing new! they have existed for a long time over in China. the Chinese government has always been like this towards bitcoin and any bitcoin services and from time to time when things get bad with these services the government takes swift actions like closing the exchanges. but again it is NOT the first time!

obviously people will play up news to try to make fast money but there is real problems now not all FUD

The Chinese govt is building up to their 19th National Congress which is on 18th October.

They always do crackdowns in the lead up, especially of anything linked to capital flight. It's their way of impressing the comrades and proving they're still in control of their country.

that has always been the plan.
Chinese are known for doing weird stuff like this and they are notorious when it comes to bitcoin. there has been lots of scams through ICOs which are fund raising in China and being liquidated through exchanges. there has been lots of fraud and money laundering through the same exchanges and lots of other issues.
we should have been surprised if China didn't ban exchanges sooner.

Exactly!  Wtf is with China?  Wouldn't it be more profitable if they kept pumping Bitcoin?

And I disagree that a ban is in the works.  I think it's not gonna be a ban, but some strict regulations set by the PBOC imho.

This should be pretty obvious to anyone.

There is a small possibility that the rumors are true but i think it is completely unfeasible for the Chinese government to even try to restrict access to bitcoin and bitcoin mining. It is just impossible to regulate and enforce.

I mean it could happen. But there is no indication that it will. Why would they tell chinese exchanges to give back customer funds before they shut down if they were planning on banning the bitcoin network anyways? It seems like a bunch of people holding short positions are using media to make their profit.

quite the opposite.
price manipulation and spreading FUD is pretty hard. well to be correct creating and spreading FUD is easy but making it effective is hard. you cal look at @kwukduck for example. he has been bullshitting here for nearly as long as bitcointalk existed and it has never been effective as fast as i can remember. everybody mocks him for his stupidity. and market always does the exact opposite of what @kwukduck says
the effective FUD is when market is dropping and then it has to have some reality to it. you can't just use any lie to create FUD. it always helps when a dumb news site publishes some click bait with your FUD.

If that the case then the whale succeed,so many people suffering lost and a lot of them doing panic sell, but I only believe half of it,I think the government also playing part in this, I think the government is serious to regulate bitcoin

Price manipulation is not that a hard task. In reality the FUD spreading is quite easy with the entire digital currency market. Growth with bitcoin is a true fact and at present the Chinese were the major market generators. This might change, but till that price manipulation and other factors will be in the hands of china as a whole.

haha, you need to look at the market next time price is dropping and you will hopefully understand what a whale looks like. those big dumps all of a sudden with a large sum of bitcoin being sold on the market does not come from "herd". it is one order with a big amount coming from a whale. then the "herd" follows by multiple smaller sells after the price was already lower and then the other part of the "herd" follows when price is really at the bottom. and then if you look again you will see a big buy wall at some point be placed by the same whale with the same money to buy back what he sold.

It's so easy to manipulate price with news from China. This means that BTC market is still at a nascent stage. There is a lot of room for growth.

There seems to be no other justification for why price is going down so much.

This should be accurate of what is happening right now. When there is enough fear and doubt in the market the price will naturally go down. Releasing articles without any proof behind it is a great way to spread this doubt and fear, and shorting bitcoin at the same time would make them big $$$.

When people realise this they will buy into btc, and create a short squeeze.

Almost everything is FUD before anything has acutally been done. Market manipulation through media is not big task for these whales looking for quick and easy bucks and this seems like just that. Shorting bitcoin and commissioning the media to release negative news is easy money.

There is no evidence apart from the fact that china has shut down exchanges.

That's why it's a good time to buy right now. $3500-3600 is pretty cheap compared to a few days ago.

This is extremely plausible. Banning the entire network or bitcoin mining simply does not make any sense for the Chinese government in my opinion. They know that they can't control bitcoin because it is p2p and the funds involved in regulating bitcoin will be much higher than what it is worth.

A group of traders spreading the FUD to gain monetary benefits on their short position. Not surprising if it was true.

Though, even though Charlie lee said that he didn't make any trades he is likely holding bitcoin still. But i tend to side with him right now.

For a bunch of authoritarians they ain't half wishy washy. When I'm global dictator the first thing I'll exterminate is uncertainty, then I'll kill every living thing on the planet.

That is why we are here i think of bitcoin it is because there is no ethical rules everyone will do what they wanted to they their bitcoin..
And it is also decentralized no can be manipulate bitcoin but there are whales that actually holding a large amount of bitcoin and sold then crashing  the market just to buy a cheap price again.. that is why right now the price of bitcoin is hardly to get recover of the price because i think mostly bitcoin users right now are new in crypto..  
We already experience of abuse by whales .. since op posted as a proof i think those whales are paying to post publicity their fake news into a well known bitcoin news until its spreading and other bloggers too are posting news in their blogs until it getting trending since people before are not easily be fool they do an effort right now just to buy a cheap price of bitcoin . now if they seen the price was increase like in the past few days when the price hit 4k they are starting dumping again to make a profit..

They can easily manipulate the market by using false alarm, cash out huge amount and spread the FUD about China ban mining cryptocurrency and people will intrigue to following their steps to sell bitcoin, waiting for some time and then the whales will buy back even more than the initial amount they have sold. On the other hand, how people could hold at this point if they don't have funds in their pocket? everyone should pay their bills, that's why people can't hold when bitcoin price in bloodbath.

Yup. I am quite sure that even when the uncertainties around the hard fork are starting to show the first signs of affecting this market, some people will still point to China as being the main cause of the price to plummet. It was very clear from the moment the miners agreed to this hard fork, that it would form a massive obstacle for the growth that we have gone through this year, so it shouldn't be anything new or surprising. Whether it's China taking the price down, the overbought market correcting itself, or the 2MB hard fork, one way or another, the market would go down anyway before November. The difference is that the experienced investors and traders have taken profits close to $5000, and are now prepared for whatever levels this market will bottom at, while the 'rookies' will start asking questions why the price is going down, and sell at a loss.

is that you Jamie?

are you paid by the 0.1% to get cheap coinz for their silly monopoly fiat money?  

I think it's pretty clear we're heading for $2500 or even $1800 and then heading back up. The only thing that will put a spanner in the works is Seg2x.

As long as people poop their pants when there is whatever Chinese announcement regarding crypto in general, the whales behind all this will continue to play this market like it's a piece of cake.

It shows that people put their hard earned money into something they don't know much about, and don't know how a fairly common form of manipulation works that applies to basically any market in the world.

If people stop reacting to whatever fud attempt, the whales behind all this will no longer have any incentive to continue. It's the people here that are to be blamed, and that time on time again, which is quite embarrassing.

Anything can be said about any technology and even about any money.

People have ethics, technologies aren't sentient so they can't have ethics by design

Just to add on to your post.

"Bitcoin has no ethical rules" it only has "Technical Rules".

Pump&Dump, market manipulation, stealing, scamming, crashing the market and going short on it.... all allowed in Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin is ethically as fair as Anarchy...

That is the problem of everyone, because weak hands are the majority, like 99% of users.

And those weak hands are pushing the price down, believing in whales lies.

If a whale sells part of its stash, and the weaklings dont follow him, so the price would not go down, and instead the whale will lose its dominance, since other people will buy it, believing it will go up.

It's the herd mentality which is pushing the price down.

Also, weaklings are always going all-in with bitcoin. They put all their investments into it, put all they have into a single basket. So they despair when it go down.

This is lack of financial education, which most of the herd dont have.

It is good to confirm it. Whales will always be whales... that is pretty much unavoidable. Better start buying if we can to reap some benefit.

The market and the protocol itself are two different things and I don't believe that bitcoin is designed to be like the banks in the first place. Blame greedy investors and not the protocol for what's happening in bitcoin.

On another note, Charlie Lee is right on his recent statements about the banning of exchanges which no one except he and his sources saw coming. Too bad most exchange owners in China cannot go out of that shithole yet due to the order of PBoC. If they ban mining next (another issue), guess who'll profit more on the bloody streets?

Under $2k is almost impossible, but price can go below $3k again because the recovery we had after a huge dump few days ago wasn't healthy. Recovery from a huge dump like that should take some time to have some liquidity and buy support for another bull run. Price might go sideways for next few days and might drop a little bit before getting pumped again.

Not if they fud and manipulate the price too much. As soon as we go below the MA20 (so far we always bounced off from this line since late 2015) in the weekly chart the sentiment could turn bearish and we some more downwards pressure.
Let's wait what's going to happen. Whatever happens, I won't sell my coins!!

I agree it is a whale manipulation but how low will it go? when will whales be ready to pump next. I hope they wont wait until it decreases under 2k

i sometimes think all these weak hands and everyone who repeats the FUD like a parrot has Attention Deficit Disorder!
you people just read the word "ban" and then make up stories in your little heads

have you read the whole thing, i mean the "WORD" that came literary after the word "ban"? i seriously doubt half of you even noticed the other word.
that word was ICO not bitcoin! the two words doesn't even look alike so you have no excuse for confusing them either.

It makes perfect sense for the Chinese authorities to ban bitcoin, they have done plenty of currency manipulation (right or wrong) to the Yuan and place restrictions on wide sections of peoples lives. Whether it is true this time is difficult to ascertain, because the authorities are so opaque. Frankly if the Chinese economy crumbled tomorrow, it would be the fault of their government for being against transparency.

p.s. I always thought "FUD" meant "Fucked up definition", does that have any place in the context used?

If this is true China will in the short to medium term future announce bitcoin is not banned & the price will moon, right?

Well, and he was right wasn't he? Charlie Lee got accused of being a FUDster himself when he claimed that China was going to ban exchanges. He said he could trust his sources. Turns out hours later, the ban indeed came: Charlie Lee was right. And he is probably right again. There will be no chinese mining ban, and if there is, it's bullish for Bitcoin anyway.

Also in no moment in history have all governments agreed to do something. They will not agree to ban Bitcoin, there will always be places where it isn't banned (other than Antarctica)

Lol this guy.
Just two days ago he was tweeting that he heard from "trusted sources" that this was just the beginning of the China ban and that things would get much worse from here.
I think we found one of these whales he's talking about...

It doesn't matter though, even if China wasn't planning to ban Bitcoin initially, you can bet your life that they got wind of the influence Bitcoin has with all this drama and they want nothing of it.
So bans ARE in the works, and not only in China, the only thing allowed to be in control and set strict rules are the Governments and banks in these countries, and they are big in numbers.

My prediction is that within a 2-5 year time frame Bitcoin will be illegal in 99% of the worlds countries and only be allowed in Antarctica or some other place where nobody actually lives or does anything with it.

You have to be really naive to think the 0.1% of people holding 99.99% of the worlds wealth will give that up for a silly monopoly money computer program.

Its well known fact that all chinese bankers want to get their share on bitcoin and they create FUD and different propaganda along with some big whales so they can buy bitcoin at cheaper price.

I am expecting huge accumulation below or around $3k level for next few days before another huge bull run to new ATH price.

This is very interesting lately,
we can see a lot of thread opened to tell people that we will be fucked up and told us to sell our Bitcoin,
whatever it is true or not we should can see it clearly and make some preparation to face it.
but i believe it is not the end of the cryptocurrency world because no matter what we still have the world to shoulder it.
(if the chinese confirmed doing all of what they said a while ago)



fully agree with you,
it's just based on individual view and opinions,
Bitcoin mission is to create a freedom for their users.even if you're using Fiat you will still can see something like this.
so it's not only in cryptos,but in other assets you will something like this.
you will never can stop the whales to manipulate the markets

Wrong. Bitcoin was all about putting fair rules for everyone, and the rules are fair and clean, open source, there are no lies within the protocol. You can never stop whales from forming and you can never stop them from telling lines. If you are stupid enough to fall for the FUD and sell and lose your BTC then that is your problem, not anyone's else or BTC's problem itself.

Bitcoins Intention was to brake the banks dictatorship. As we can see, nothing changed with bitcoin. Instead of banks, now whales dominate everything, manipulate and steal.

they keep spreading the FUD and keep insisting on foolish things such as China banning bitcoin, China banning mining, ... and manipulate the price while shorting.

you have been told.

https://twitter.com/SatoshiLite/status/911067464796053506