Chase bank limiting cash and banning international wire transfers November 17???

TheButterZone

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Quote from: tvbcof on October 24, 2013, 12:14:32 PM

I just got a warning from my bank (Wells Fargo) that the federal government (U.S.) has is going to impose limits on the frequency of access to one's savings accounts. Obviously the banks is going to comply. In a nutshell, no more than 6 transactions per billing cycle (with details and exceptions which were described with an asterisk and which I've not found and studied.)

Nothing new, that's FRB Reg. D; think it was originally created in 1980, its current, more lenient form has been in effect since 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_D_%28FRB%29
http://thebutterzone.wordpress.com/2013/02/10/bitcoins-u-s-savingsmoney-market-accounts-dont/

tvbcof

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I just got a warning from my bank (Wells Fargo) that the federal government (U.S.) has is going to impose limits on the frequency of access to one's savings accounts. Obviously the banks is going to comply. In a nutshell, no more than 6 transactions per billing cycle (with details and exceptions which were described with an asterisk and which I've not found and studied.)

This seems an odd little rule which does not accomplish much on it's own either in terms of inconvenience to Joe users or value for those who may wish to engineer surveillance and control. I'm not sure why the feds would have bothered unless it is going to mesh with further restrictions (say, maximum transfer values) at some later date.

I think that if things get ugly in terms of capital controls, a lot of people will look back and say "Why didn't I see this coming!?!"

CEG5952

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Quote from: Hawker on October 21, 2013, 02:37:20 PM

Quote from: MAbtc on October 21, 2013, 01:25:55 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 21, 2013, 01:24:37 PM

No restriction on freedom - just a bank looking to increase its fee income.

That's been my feeling, too. I'm not sure how this all got so blown out of proportion. When we start seeing capital control restrictions coming from the state level..... then it's time to worry. (or too late....)

The journalist left out the word "savings account" when he "quoted" the bank restriction. Its just someone puffing for attention.

certainly got a lot of clicks from the billion places it's posted on this forum!

Hawker

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Quote from: MAbtc on October 21, 2013, 01:25:55 PM

Quote from: Hawker on October 21, 2013, 01:24:37 PM

No restriction on freedom - just a bank looking to increase its fee income.

That's been my feeling, too. I'm not sure how this all got so blown out of proportion. When we start seeing capital control restrictions coming from the state level..... then it's time to worry. (or too late....)

The journalist left out the word "savings account" when he "quoted" the bank restriction. Its just someone puffing for attention.

MAbtc

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Quote from: Hawker on October 21, 2013, 01:24:37 PM

No restriction on freedom - just a bank looking to increase its fee income.

That's been my feeling, too. I'm not sure how this all got so blown out of proportion. When we start seeing capital control restrictions coming from the state level..... then it's time to worry. (or too late....)

Hawker

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vgyiuTiQSJ4/Ul7kSj8iuYI/AAAAAAAANlA/NS4r10m--Ws/s1600/161013letter2.jpg

That's normal - savings accounts are not used as commercial accounts because they pay higher interest on the balance and have lower fees. By moving the funds from the savings account to a commercial account, that limit is removed.

No restriction on freedom - just a bank looking to increase its fee income.

pedrog

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Quote from: nthoangga on October 21, 2013, 12:35:21 PM

Quote from: Severian on October 17, 2013, 02:28:19 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 04:49:04 PM

Because the bankers will let you what? Move your fiat to bitcoin through coinbase/mt gox when the time comes?

There will come a time, soon, when people won't want to convert from btc to fiat. In the meantime, Bitcoin will continue to slowly suck up excess liquidity until it becomes more liquid than the fiat weighed down by debt.

It will be a very different monetary world in a year or two and Bitcoin is already helping to shape it.

Bitcoin sure will be surging to the top if the world is in big chaos.
But if the world is in absolute peace, then the gov won't have a lot of regulations. Then bitcoin future won't be very sure.

No need for chaos or peace, bitcoin will thrive because it's convenient, and eventually it will become easy to use also.

nthoangga

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Quote from: Severian on October 17, 2013, 02:28:19 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 04:49:04 PM

Because the bankers will let you what? Move your fiat to bitcoin through coinbase/mt gox when the time comes?

There will come a time, soon, when people won't want to convert from btc to fiat. In the meantime, Bitcoin will continue to slowly suck up excess liquidity until it becomes more liquid than the fiat weighed down by debt.

It will be a very different monetary world in a year or two and Bitcoin is already helping to shape it.

Bitcoin sure will be surging to the top if the world is in big chaos.
But if the world is in absolute peace, then the gov won't have a lot of regulations. Then bitcoin future won't be very sure.

MAbtc

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I've never used a bank wire to buy bitcoins or receive profits from an exchange..... but I suppose if you are trying to move 10s of thousands of dollars at a time, it's probably the most sensible way.

Taras

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I'm with Chase, which sucks.
I wouldn't buy bitcoins with anything but cash or a MoneyPak, though. Who needs wire transfer when you have that?

CEG5952

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i don't know about "capital controls", still doesn't add up to that for me. we'll see if more stuff like this starts happening, though...

phillipsjk

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Let the chips fall where they may.

My reasoning on this:

Quote from: phillipsjk

I have been thinking about this for a couple of days; and started wondering: are these actually capital controls disguised as consumer-protection legislation?

Wire Transfers are one of the few irreversible transactions that banking system has. As far as I know, it is also the only (legal) way to send more than $10,000 in one transaction. It is unrealistic to expect the International Banking network to suddenly make wire transfers reversible just because new regulation (not law) in the US says so.

This means that International Wire Transfers are essentially barred. As a concequence, transfers over $10,000 are essentially barred as well.

What is interesting is that the OP's bank has apparently found a work-around. They simply have to hold the wire transfer for 30 minutes. Since wire transfers are famous for intermediate banks tacking on fees: the OP's bank eats those as well (raising the price enough to cover it 97 times out of 100).

- Re: Let's clear the air about Chase and other Banks stopping Int'l wires

I my Paranoia is correct, we will see more explicit capital controls in the US within about 2 months.

CEG5952

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so this does or doesn't have to do with, well, capital controls?

pedrog

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Quote from: Wilikon on October 19, 2013, 03:35:15 PM

Quote from: imrer on October 18, 2013, 02:11:46 PM

It can't be true. Too big and no media attention. Even if that is true, it could tremendously help bitcoin.

It can't be true because you trust the media?
If it is not in the main stream media then it does not happen, it is out of reality. It is the new "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" reality. They even covered up the government against their own regarding the O's spying on them. Now it is but a forgotten memory.

Having say all of that, we should always be conscious about news, especially from people posting links on a forum

It is not "news worthy": http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1oo0w7/lets_clear_the_air_about_chase_and_other_banks/

Lethn

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*smug Bitcoin user*

Wilikon

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Quote from: imrer on October 18, 2013, 02:11:46 PM

It can't be true. Too big and no media attention. Even if that is true, it could tremendously help bitcoin.

It can't be true because you trust the media?
If it is not in the main stream media then it does not happen, it is out of reality. It is the new "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" reality. They even covered up the government against their own regarding the O's spying on them. Now it is but a forgotten memory.

Having say all of that, we should always be conscious about news, especially from people posting links on a forum

imrer

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It can't be true. Too big and no media attention. Even if that is true, it could tremendously help bitcoin.

pedrog

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Here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1oo0w7/lets_clear_the_air_about_chase_and_other_banks/

Remittance is a new niche for bitcoin.

Spendulus

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Quote from: MAbtc on October 17, 2013, 04:11:51 PM

Quote from: Severian on October 17, 2013, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: MAbtc on October 17, 2013, 02:31:04 PM

A year or two?

The Federal Reserve won't be able to monetize the US government's debt forever. We've already hit the wall and now we're just waiting for our butts to catch up and slam us into the wall harder.

A year or two, yes.

There seems to be a disconnect between the two bolded statements above. I don't see any indication that this won't be sustained for quite some time -- far longer, perhaps, than a year or two.

Well, at 20T of immediate debt, interest due at 5% would be equal to the total take from personal tax returns. We are at 17T now, and they are holding things together only by keeping interest at 0%. So the "year or two" or the "some time--far longer..." translates to how long can the FED keep the rate at zero.

I have thought this has several parts that have to be considered separately.

(A) debt that is longer term like 10 year T bills
(B) debt that is forced on people - like money market accounts which buy the government accounts, or the cash side of stock market accounts which I believe many are forced to hold government debt
(C) US debt that is forced on retirement accounts through pressuring the fiduciary agents. In this arena US debt is only "one part" - but it is a part.

People are dumber than you might think. Right now you can get 3-4% on a Australian $ savings account, but in the US you have to go to riskier investments to accomplish that rate of return - corporate bonds and dividend paying stocks.

As far as I can tell, serious capital flight has not yet occurred.

MAbtc

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Quote from: Severian on October 17, 2013, 02:36:10 PM

Quote from: MAbtc on October 17, 2013, 02:31:04 PM

A year or two?

The Federal Reserve won't be able to monetize the US government's debt forever. We've already hit the wall and now we're just waiting for our butts to catch up and slam us into the wall harder.

A year or two, yes.

There seems to be a disconnect between the two bolded statements above. I don't see any indication that this won't be sustained for quite some time -- far longer, perhaps, than a year or two.

Severian

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Quote from: MAbtc on October 17, 2013, 02:31:04 PM

A year or two?

The Federal Reserve won't be able to monetize the US government's debt forever. We've already hit the wall and now we're just waiting for our butts to catch up and slam us into the wall harder.

A year or two, yes.

MAbtc

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Quote from: Severian on October 17, 2013, 02:28:19 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 04:49:04 PM

Because the bankers will let you what? Move your fiat to bitcoin through coinbase/mt gox when the time comes?

There will come a time, soon, when people won't want to convert from btc to fiat. In the meantime, Bitcoin will continue to slowly suck up excess liquidity until it becomes more liquid than the fiat weighed down by debt.

It will be a very different monetary world in a year or two and Bitcoin is already helping to shape it.

A year or two? Let's not get too ahead of ourselves. I remember thinking the same thing when i first heard about bitcoin in 2010.... but these things take time. A lot of time.

Severian

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Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 04:49:04 PM

Because the bankers will let you what? Move your fiat to bitcoin through coinbase/mt gox when the time comes?

There will come a time, soon, when people won't want to convert from btc to fiat. In the meantime, Bitcoin will continue to slowly suck up excess liquidity until it becomes more liquid than the fiat weighed down by debt.

It will be a very different monetary world in a year or two and Bitcoin is already helping to shape it.

Wilikon

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Quote from: makebitcoin on October 17, 2013, 01:40:49 PM

Everyday more laws, restrictions and limits. For every restriction they lift, three new pop up.
All the money is being sucked up by the top.
You live in your little McCube, surviving of Big Macs and putting in work at the MacFactory everyday.
Nowadays you still have some money and bitcoins, one day the only thing you will have is MacCoupons and store credit.
I think I'm going to live in some shed one day and just live off hunting.

Hunting? Better be with knives and hunting bows. 2nd amendment is next.

makebitcoin

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Everyday more laws, restrictions and limits. For every restriction they lift, three new pop up.
All the money is being sucked up by the top.
You live in your little McCube, surviving of Big Macs and putting in work at the MacFactory everyday.
Nowadays you still have some money and bitcoins, one day the only thing you will have is MacCoupons and store credit.
I think I'm going to live in some shed one day and just live off hunting.

zedicus

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CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Mis direction.. Oh look a pony!

Wilikon

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I was hoping it was another alex jones delirium

Sad

pedrog

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Another source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-16/creeping-capital-controls-jpmorgan-chase

Prepare for a bank run!

Wilikon

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Quote from: pedrog on October 16, 2013, 05:06:11 PM

Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 03:45:01 PM

Must be a joke mail I hope.

If InfoWars is the source, it's very probable!

Yes I made sure to add a bunch of " Huh

" on the subject line. We shall know soon enough Grin

pedrog

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Quote from: Wilikon on October 16, 2013, 03:45:01 PM

Must be a joke mail I hope.

If InfoWars is the source, it's very probable!

Wilikon

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Quote from: knight22 on October 16, 2013, 04:09:43 PM

I don't know but I hope this is true. This will help bitcoin adoption Grin

Because the bankers will let you what? Move your fiat to bitcoin through coinbase/mt gox when the time comes?

cryptasm

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Gamdom.com

More reason to join or create a credit union. Thinks it's time for people to vote with their wallets and close their accounts with these crooks

knight22

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--------------->¿?

I don't know but I hope this is true. This will help bitcoin adoption Grin

Wilikon

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http://www.infowars.com/chase-bank-limits-cash-withdrawals-bans-international-wire-transfers/

Dear Business Customer,
Starting November 17, 2013:
- You will no longer be able to send international wire transfers. You will still be able to send domestic wires and receive both domestic and international wires. We’ll cancel any international wire transfers, including reccurring ones, you scheduled to be sent after this date.
- Your cash activity limit for these accounts(s) will be $50,000 per statement cycle, per account. Cash activity is the combined total of cash deposits made at branches, night drops and ATMs and cash withdrawals made at branches (including purchases of money orders) and ATMs.
These changes will help us more effectively manage the risks involved with these types of transactions.
Another letter (PDF) received by Peak to Peak Charter School, a college in Colorado, states that the option to send both international and domestic wire transfers has been withdrawn from Chase business savings account holders.
---------------------------------------

Must be a joke mail I hope.

Topic: Chase bank limiting cash and banning international wire transfers November 17??? (Read 6966 times)