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Topic: Chavez is dead, bitcoin going to $100 tomorrow!!!! (Read 5213 times)

full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Yes, countries do not own resources. People do.

To me, all governments are thieves, but Venuzula under Chavez is kinda the king of the thieves. There are three countries on my do not go list (supplemented with countries with active conflicts) and I truly love to travel and go everywhere. The do not go list is simply because I am scared to go there Tongue. (Venezuela, North Korea and Somalia are on the list).

Anyway, feel free to disagree, but I see far less evil in a democratically elected leader doing what his own electorate wants him to do (I guess you call that "populism"?)  than in a puppet dictatorship oppressing and massacring their own people and acting only to serve the financial interests of the foreign companies that put it in power.

True I disagree (and it goes without saying you are entitled to your own opinion). But I thought this was a much more mature conversation than we had previously on these boards Smiley

 Well I have been both to North Korea and Venezuela, and nothing is more frightening than USA or France. Walking around Chicago, Miami or Paris at night? Yeah right.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Yes, countries do not own resources. People do.
So how could US or brittish companies have bought these resources from Venezualian or Iranian governments? By your logic that wouldnt have been legit to begin with.

They haven't. They bought them form other private investors. In the case they were "owned" by a government than the initial sale was a bootstrap method to get things started. Following this governments should not own anything. Did I say I dislike governments? Wink

1. Inefficient use of money
2. Money burning machines
3. 'Redistribute' money in a more equal manner, (O yeah they call it fair, that always causes me nausea. This is also true for the word social in socialism. How is thievery social?)

To me, all governments are thieves, but Venuzula under Chavez is kinda the king of the thieves. There are three countries on my do not go list (supplemented with countries with active conflicts) and I truly love to travel and go everywhere. The do not go list is simply because I am scared to go there Tongue. (Venezuela, North Korea and Somalia are on the list).

Anyway, feel free to disagree, but I see far less evil in a democratically elected leader doing what his own electorate wants him to do (I guess you call that "populism"?)  than in a puppet dictatorship oppressing and massacring their own people and acting only to serve the financial interests of the foreign companies that put it in power.

True I disagree (and it goes without saying you are entitled to your own opinion). But I thought this was a much more mature conversation than we had previously on these boards Smiley
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Yes, countries do not own resources. People do.

So how could US or brittish companies have bought these resources from Venezualian or Iranian governments? By your logic that wouldnt have been legit to begin with.

Anyway, feel free to disagree, but I see far less evil in a democratically elected leader doing what his own electorate wants him to do (I guess you call that "populism"?)  than in a puppet dictatorship oppressing and massacring their own people and acting only to serve the financial interests of the foreign companies that put it in power.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Whats the big difference between foreign occupation and a puppet regime or dictatorship imposed by foreign countries if they both serve to steal a nations resources? As for duration,  if WW2 had lasted 20 more years, would german "enterpreneurs" have a had a more valid claim on your countries resources?

Yes, countries do not own resources. People do.

With respect to the duration. That is very true as it's a gliding scale, which is more right? The longer it takes the longer the crime is disconnected from the present. If an entrepreneur has worked on business for 20 years, taking it away from him is certainly unfair. The same is true (for example) for paintings stolen from Jews during WII being being dispossessed from owners present day and "returned" to families of those it was once stolen from, even if current owners have bought it from others and are many transactions away from the original thieves. I consider that dispossession thievery as well.

But these situations are much more border line to what Chavez was doing. There is no discussion possible that is theft (the same is true for Jeroen Dijsselbloem's recent actions, glad I have always stayed away from bank stocks).
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
You are right it is likely the latter. And certainly injustice has been done both during and after the war (to Germans and Dutch people alike).

But I have to say I think there are large differences, the fact that Venezuela is not occupied, the fact that property and businesses weren't seized and resold but bought by foreign investors and the fact that those investors have owned the property and business for a far longer time than the duration of WWII being three of them.

Whats the big difference between foreign occupation and a puppet regime or dictatorship imposed by foreign countries if they both serve to steal a nations resources? As for duration,  if WW2 had lasted 20 more years, would german "enterpreneurs" have a had a more valid claim on your countries resources?

legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
You are right it is likely the latter. And certainly injustice has been done both during and after the war (to Germans and Dutch people alike).

But I have to say I think there are large differences, the fact that Venezuela is not occupied, the fact that property and businesses weren't seized and resold but bought by foreign investors and the fact that those investors have owned the property and business for a far longer time than the duration of WWII being three of them.
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Yes much worse.

really now. Either you are oblivious to the history of those countries, or you are insane. I assume you are dutch, after your country was liberated in WW2, did you buy back everything from those german entrepreneurs,  or did your governemt "steal" it?
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Concerning Chavez? He is a thief. He stole companies from entrepreneurs in Venuzuela for his own populist agenda and kicked them out of the country.

I guess you think that is somehow worse than foreign companies overthrowing democratic leaders to install puppet regimes to steal Venezuelan (/Iranian/Iraqi/etc)  oil? Chavez gave back to Venezuelans what belonged to them in the first place. Much like Mossadeq before him.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...

Straight to the essence, can't agree more +1

What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Obama and Bush killed no less with their conquering military politics around the globe, do you suggest to hate them as well?

 Well many do, altough people dont get it thats it all about the money, and that Obama and Bush are just pupets. How the hell did we get this place to politics too? Leave it be, its a bitcoin board

It's hard to see the two in isolation I think.

Concerning Chavez? He is a thief. He stole companies from entrepreneurs in Venuzuela for his own populist agenda and kicked them out of the country. I am not a fan of Bush or Obama or any other government or country but Chavez is one of the worst. The only reason he didn't do anything to me is he lacked the means. Not that I think the world will be a better place with his demise as I bet his successor is lining up. The more things change the more they stay the same Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...

Straight to the essence, can't agree more +1

What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Obama and Bush killed no less with their conquering military politics around the globe, do you suggest to hate them as well?

 Well many do, altough people dont get it thats it all about the money, and that Obama and Bush are just pupets. How the hell did we get this place to politics too? Leave it be, its a bitcoin board

+1
I was making bull jokes...
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...

Straight to the essence, can't agree more +1

What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Obama and Bush killed no less with their conquering military politics around the globe, do you suggest to hate them as well?

 Well many do, altough people dont get it thats it all about the money, and that Obama and Bush are just pupets. How the hell did we get this place to politics too? Leave it be, its a bitcoin board
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1087
For any USA-ians that might like to see a different viewpoint...

http://southoftheborderdoc.com
legendary
Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
Its worth pointing out Chavez got reelected time after time, in elections which western observers not only deemed free and fair, they went as far as calling the electoral process a model for democracy:
http://truth-out.org/news/item/12074-independent-observers-venezuelas-election-a-model-of-democracy

Probably not what you heard on US mainstream media, whom i am sure are now announcing the death of a tyrant.

As for Chavez being murdered by the US; I wouldnt rule it out, although it would have to have been a subtle approach since i am sure they looked very hard for evidence in Cuba.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1031
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...

Thank you for a thoughtful post.  It is a good point to think about which system causes more harm than the other... definitely not a quick and easy answer.

So best for us all not to be too hasty in passing judgement!
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1031
I like chocolate milk, therefore... bitcoin going to $100 tomorrow!

tough to argue that logic...
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1031
What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Chavez didn't directly participate to kill that number of people (he's not stalin) but indirectly he didn't fight the crime rates in Venezuela, contributing to (a fucking lot of) death by crimes on Venezuela. Although he did lots of stuff to at least try to improve the life of the poor class, the government was full of corruption and inefficacy.

Anyways, I think that Venezuela needed a change of leader (by normal means like not having indefinite elections, a law he approved), although I can't be happy for the death of anyone as I'm atheist so people won't be "with you in the sky" nor anything like that.

btw I prefer bitcoins to slowly rise than having them at 100$ tomorrow and 30$ the following day.

I'd be ok with hitting $100 tomorrow and coming back to $30 the following day... at least that's why my order book tells me, hehe.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
LONG LIVE BITCOINS!
legendary
Activity: 4760
Merit: 1283

Chavez brought honor and dignity to his people and to the whole region.  I'm sorry to see him go, but hopeful that the seeds he cultivated will continue to grow.

member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Socialism (particularly in a mixed economy with capitalism) is awesome, its fascism that sucks.
"Arsenic (particularly when mixed with water) is awesome, it's cyanide that sucks."
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
daytrader/superhero
Wait, socialism in a 'mixed economy with capitalism' (Huh) doesn't turn out to be the same as fascism in 99% 100% of cases?

No, not even remotely.


Forget everything I just said as it was not necessary.

Yeah, you're right, it wasn't.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Socialism (particularly in a mixed economy with capitalism) is awesome, its fascism that sucks.


Wait, socialism in a 'mixed economy with capitalism' (Huh) doesn't turn out to be the same as fascism in 99% 100% of cases?

Or, what about when those socialist countries do things like ban homeschooling (Sweden) or invade a bunch of countries and kill people in them (the U.S.) or make people wait 2 years for cataract surgery while going blind (Canada) or write socialist regulations explicitly limiting the financial liability of oil companies for environmental disasters (a bunch of countries including the U.S.) or hey [insert lots of other bad things states do] [insert more bad things states do]

Elected officials control trillions of dollars and billions of bullets. The corporation that does not buy the politicians is at a competitive disadvantage. They are merely playing the "game" that was set up for them, a game of socialist/statist violence.

Actually, never mind. "Noun-1 [Verb 'to be'] Noun-2 (identity)" is not sufficient to form a higher order abstraction. General semantics phail @ X form of government "is" "awesome". Forget everything I just said as it was not necessary.

hero member
Activity: 506
Merit: 500
Chavez would probably support bitcoin if it was explained to him. After all he hated the US banking system and bitcoin gives the power back to the people.

The vice president stated hours before Chavez's death that foreign powers (eg. USA) gave the cancer to Chavez.  It is unlikely such people would look favourably upon bitcoin, a concept very hard to understand for non computer literate people, on a still predominantly USA controlled Internet, published by a mysterious entity that no one has ever met (Satoshi could be a CIA operative!).  Anyway, bitcoin takes away the ultimate in currency control that dictators the world over love.

+1, remember they appeal to the poor in both good and bad ways, although they do nice stuff to benefit the poor people and help them raise their quality of life in a significant way, they must also know that the uneducated majority will believe them.
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...

Straight to the essence, can't agree more +1

What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Obama and Bush killed no less with their conquering military politics around the globe, do you suggest to hate them as well?
legendary
Activity: 1692
Merit: 1018
Chavez would probably support bitcoin if it was explained to him. After all he hated the US banking system and bitcoin gives the power back to the people.

The vice president stated hours before Chavez's death that foreign powers (eg. USA) gave the cancer to Chavez.  It is unlikely such people would look favourably upon bitcoin, a concept very hard to understand for non computer literate people, on a still predominantly USA controlled Internet, published by a mysterious entity that no one has ever met (Satoshi could be a CIA operative!).  Anyway, bitcoin takes away the ultimate in currency control that dictators the world over love.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
Have you ever considered how many deaths and poor people did democracy make? Give it a thought before calling another system worse ...
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Chavez would probably support bitcoin if it was explained to him. After all he hated the US banking system and bitcoin gives the power back to the people.

Too bad he was a massive statist.
legendary
Activity: 1692
Merit: 1018
I like chocolate milk, therefore... bitcoin going to $100 tomorrow!
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
good.  maybe now i can get my Crystallex mine back.

My condolences.  I owned KRY for a brief while thinking it was going to get its permit eventually, but was lucky enough to get tired of waiting and exited prematurely with just a small loss.

Unfortunately for Venezuelans and all companies who had their assets expropriated stolen, based on the speech he just gave, the VP shows no signs of being better and might in fact be even worse.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide

Chavez was a statist. It's Statism, be it in the form of State Socialism or State Capitalism, that's the problem.  Churchill, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, any Bush you care to name, Hitler, Obama, Thatcher, JFK, LBJ, FDR, etc.: all Statists.

The problem with Statists is that they think the power of the State is only safe if the "correct" people are wielding it, no matter who they're actually raping, robbing and killing while they wield it.


YES MA'AM!
I thoroughly appreciate your sentiment and share it exactly.
DROs 4tw ;-)

And people wonder why we call the silly libertarians "minarchists."

It's funny how at the beginning of last century people considered socialists and anarchists to be birds of a feather.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
daytrader/superhero
Socialism (particularly in a mixed economy with capitalism) is awesome, its fascism that sucks.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide

Chavez was a statist. It's Statism, be it in the form of State Socialism or State Capitalism, that's the problem.  Churchill, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, any Bush you care to name, Hitler, Obama, Thatcher, JFK, LBJ, FDR, etc.: all Statists.

The problem with Statists is that they think the power of the State is only safe if the "correct" people are wielding it, no matter who they're actually raping, robbing and killing while they wield it.


YES MA'AM!
I thoroughly appreciate your sentiment and share it exactly.
DROs 4tw ;-)

And people wonder why we call the silly libertarians "minarchists."
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
Socialism doesn't kill people. People kill people.
so taking all food from Ukrainian ppl with guns and they pay 200 grams of bread for each corpse they bring is not system fault is peoples fault they voluntary did that ......
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
Socialism doesn't kill people. Socialists kill people.

FTFY
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1021
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Socialism doesn't kill people. People kill people.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Chavez isn't dead. He was spotted outside a NYC record store picking up the latest Matt and Kim album.


It only cost'em 5k.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide

Chavez was a statist. It's Statism, be it in the form of State Socialism or State Capitalism, that's the problem.  Churchill, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, any Bush you care to name, Hitler, Obama, Thatcher, JFK, LBJ, FDR, etc.: all Statists.

The problem with Statists is that they think the power of the State is only safe if the "correct" people are wielding it, no matter who they're actually raping, robbing and killing while they wield it.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry

he stole my mine!
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Chavez isn't dead. He was spotted outside a NYC record store picking up the latest Matt and Kim album.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
good.  maybe now i can get my Crystallex mine back.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000

btw I prefer bitcoins to slowly rise than having them at 100$ tomorrow and 30$ the following day.

You are late to wish that.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
Chavez didn't directly participate to kill that number of people (he's not stalin)
I said word wide, soviet russian "only" killed 42 millions
hero member
Activity: 506
Merit: 500
What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him

Chavez didn't directly participate to kill that number of people (he's not stalin) but indirectly he didn't fight the crime rates in Venezuela, contributing to (a fucking lot of) death by crimes on Venezuela. Although he did lots of stuff to at least try to improve the life of the poor class, the government was full of corruption and inefficacy.

Anyways, I think that Venezuela needed a change of leader (by normal means like not having indefinite elections, a law he approved), although I can't be happy for the death of anyone as I'm atheist so people won't be "with you in the sky" nor anything like that.

btw I prefer bitcoins to slowly rise than having them at 100$ tomorrow and 30$ the following day.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
socialism did murder about 160 million ppl world wide and Chavez did participate to make that number so there are plenty of reasons to hate him
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
What did the poor man do to y'all?  Cry
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
Time to celebrate!  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
hero member
Activity: 811
Merit: 1000
Web Developer
Sell now if you know whats good for you, Chavez is dead.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
As many know Chavez is dead, announced today. Bitcoin is going to $100 tomorrow, next week will be around $1000.
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