Topic: Chinese official numbers are they truly trustworthy? (Read 330 times)

This is a closed country, so it will be difficult to verify the data.

you think that the EU should ally and form a force against the UK

are you really that lost that you think that hate is the answer.

i propose that the EU should just house them.. no anger no racial finger pointing. just house them

you seem to be on a complete mission to create divide and to cause tension with all your thoughts. you seem to be very racial and very angry.

have you ever thought of a calm peaceful solution.. i doubt it

so what do you propose should the eu ally with the migrants against the uk like turkey does against greece, and help them get over the border in order to demand welfare?

uk will be a poor country once it loses its connection to europe, it will return to medieval or early industrial life conditions. it will become mexico of europe

if 1 person turns up sick on the 18th of december.. and one doctor treats them.. is this worthy of calling it a pandemic and alerting the world.. no

if a dozen people in the next 3 weeks come into hospital with similar symptoms.. and its found out to be from a single isolated location like a wet market.. is this enough to declare pandemic.. no
because at this point they did not have the rna test results to know for sure if this was seasonal flu or a new varient.

results came back on january 7th and by january 9th the world knew.. this to me is sensible timeline and practical assurance they done the things corectly rather then shouting wolf at every hospital admittance.

..
what was bad. was most countries then took 2 months to do anything
from january to march UK/US continued to try bringing US/UK people from china to the US/UK.. thus bringing it over to the US/UK
what should have been done was the US/UK the people in china money to stay in a hotel and ensure their foreign medical care/travel insurance would pay out if they needed to be treated in china..

that would have been the real smart thing to do. to truly curb the spread.
the fact that it was not until march until UK/US started expanding hospital bed capacity. was a flaw too.
china was doing it at the end of january. so why were other countries not doing the same

..
as for the numbers. NO country has accurate numbers
people coughing and have temperatures while staying home are not being tested.

..
in china they actually got their act together and traced back everyone that was in contact with known corona recipients and isolated them and done daily welfare checks on them beyond the standard self isolation stuff
they provided those direct contact people with daily food and stuff so that there was absolute no need to leave their homes.
again above and beyond the self isolation protocols of other countries..

but yes a few slipped out the net and there are other cases not strictly monitored and tested.
but compared to other countries.. well i dont see a problem with china methods compared to other countries.


if UK/US didnt import the virus in with their 'repatriation' flights. less would be sick
if UK/US started manufacturing more supplies and ventilators and retaining staff that usually are not ICU specialised into a standard that can handle the more intense stuff. and got more beds in february.
then the lockdown would be even more effective then it is now.
yes the lockdown is doing some good. but not as much as it could if hospital capacity was at it optimum intime
. this whole self isolate and then try to get manufacturing done while simultaneously saying to workers its ok to take a couple months off work you wont lose your job, just contradicts any good policy.

the first stage of 'delay the spread' should have been not repatriating vacationers. but instead fund them to extend their vacation IN CHINA.
then expand hospital capacity in jan/february(not 2 months later in march/april)
.. then repatriate the vacationers. and actually monitor them by knowing everyone they come into contact with..

..
but everything i said.. is all in hindsight.
yea i admit it in hindsight we can all sound like we know better. but atleast we can use this as a learning experience to form a policy/plan should it occur again. and not just be racially profiling/finger pointing

They also covered up how the virus happened to appear in Wuhan in the first place. IMO their numbers are not trustworthy and you could see it when first Chinese Bitcoin exchanges started to appear in 2013. By 2015 the whole world (including the Chinese government) knew that they were faking their numbers to pump up the price. That's probably the main reason why they got shut down so fast.

WHO confirmed their numbers? WHO is a puppet!

It comes amid continued criticism of the WHO’s approach towards both Taiwan and China. Taiwan has been excluded from participating in the World Health Assembly after heavy lobbying from China, which considers Taiwan part of its territory.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/senior-who-adviser-appears-to-dodge-question-on-taiwans-covid-19-response

W.H.O. has vouched for China's numbers.  You could also see pollution levels go down from satellite imagery.  They actually locked people in their houses and had drones patrolling the streets 24/7.  With all of that considered, I don't know why its so difficult for people to buy the idea that they stopped the spread of the virus with such drastic measures.

Do not take China's number with any sort of credibility at all. They purposefully silenced doctors that tried to announce a new strain of coronavirus and refused work with U.S. officials and in fact exiled U.S. journalists so they could purposefully hide the true number of cases. WHO even downplayed the effects of COVID-19 when this first broke out which essentially tells you how worthless WHO when it's being directed by a communist nation. There's evidence to suggest that over tens of thousands of people died in Wuhan's outbreak which means, presumably, that there should have been over 1 million cases that broke out in Wuhan alone. 

No, they are not, remember they keep the Corona virus outbreak to the world and even threaten the doctors and the journalist who tries to expose this virus, they only serve their own interest, they always keep vital information that will undermine them as a powerful country, so don't just believe on the data and numbers they come out.

europe didnt want to house the middle eastern refugee's and passed them onto the borderlines of non eu countries..

yep the camps at Calais was EU attempt of saying, try and find a way to get on a euro tunnel to the UK because we dont want you

nazis imprissioned people based on a race identiy ideology and nationality, EU seeks to achieve human rights and development in europe through tolerance,

while EU unites in europe, you try to divide europeans among nationalities, and attack those with mixed nationality and intereuropean economic relations, eu hating nationals look pretty much like nazis to me.

uk left eu because it wanted to scam its european neigbours, imagine texas leaving uk in order to create a tax heaven in order to scam rest of the usa.

no its not racist to be pro eu, its even more racist to be a nazi. besides EU is a communal administration not a race based "nation"

uk left EU to be able to be racist against EU people and non eu people thats even more racist, besides EU is so "antiracist" it even, enslaves its own nations to fix the broken lifes of every jackass in africa and the middle east.

i thnk someone fell asleep watching Pro-EU youtube videos and let it sink into his mind as he slept.

kind of a shame to then add racial rhetoric and warcrimes ontop.. that just then makes your point, pointless. and just an empty rant to show off your pro-eu and racist against non eu people
anyway moving on this topic seems to have ended

thats absolutely not true, the nazis where race and nationality based enslavers and surpressors of weaker nations, getting europe to work harmonically and in peace is peaceful with benefits for all is antinazi.

EU is like USA in europe, uk is now nazi, it tries to scam other nations and take advantage of them, by creating a tax heaven, and uses nationalist feelings for that, thats what the nazis did.

germany is pro europe, while in  europe the nazis all thing about themselves and want to return to violent conflicts against each other, based on race and nationality like they did for 2000 years.

i hope you all nazis go to hell soon and eu ruling over you human rights and freedom and peace for all europeans.

if you call the EU nazi, you can then also call the USA nazi, because there is fundamentally no big difference they are both pancontinental capitalists

you do know the nazi's wanted to take over europe and control its laws of all euro countries..
so reality is EU is nazi and brits are the ones that escape the concentration camp to live on in freedom
so using your own racial tones. you would be more accurate in your analogy if you compared brits to jews

but now we are just meandering into racial debates which i have typically seen from you.

ok back to trusting the 'official' numbers of infections vs deaths
..
just going by UK reporting methods
doctors report to the DHSC department the corona + patients and their symptoms
if they die due to corona based symptomology its reported to DHSC
these stats become what appears in media and on chart sites like worldometer

separately there is a government department. which has been taking data from official death certificates (5days after death registered) and if it even mentions corona+ even if the cause of death was something else. they build their own statistic for corona+ deaths of any cause.. this stat is not the one that is publicly used.

china are similar. they are not just checking death certificates of any random people with corona but not symptomatic of corna symptoms but still class it as a corona death.
thy are taking data directly from hospitals and clinics at the time of the patients diagnoses and symptom change and possible eath due to symptom


the only flimsy bit of data i can possibly think coming out of china that is misleading is:
1. they were not testing as much. but heck most countries were not. unless the patient actually requires hospitalisation
2. sayin the virus wasnt from local transmission recently but imported.
sorry although the patient has a passport. the virus doeesnt.

im not saying any number from any country is 100% fake. or 100% accurate. but in comparison to how other countries data presents. it seems china's stats do tally if you take into account how differently different countries acted around self isolation early or not

there are different levels of selfsustaiability, on a personal and individual level (survival preppers)

on a nazi level (Brexit)
on a continental level (EU)

and on a global level (UN)

no one trusts and believes in the UN anymore,

one moment your on about wanting self sustainability. next your crying that some countries want to be more self sustained.
which is it?
your not going to come up with solutions if you cant decide what side of a problem you are looking to have

as for drawing pencils.
the UK can actually get its own carbon from its own land and trees. and make its own pencils. they just CHOOSE to get them elsewhere.

there is no actual resource/land shortage. when it comes to food and essentials

I am watching this right now. It will be interesting to see what these people will be saying.


DATA OR DECEIT? : THE COVID-19 PEAK (Publisher Recommended)




DATA OR DECEIT? : THE COVID-19 PEAK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCnpPjUvdLM

brits are crazy and they are nazis want to undo 50 years of european economic cooperation.

This sounds logical on first glance, but actually it's not. We really do have a worldwide, interlinked economy.

A classic example of this is the making of a pencil. Here is one version of that story.

https://cpb-us-east-1-juc1ugur1qwqqqo4.stackpathdns.com/cobblearning.net/dist/c/1326/files/2013/11/PDF-Pencil-Activity-Presentation-Interdependency-2ai1m1a.pdf

At the same time, the recent pandemic has brought to everyone's attention that nations should to some extent, and on certain issues, be capable of some level of self-reliance.

if countries cut out the luxury stuff thats not 'a need' then they woud easily concentrate on the things that are.
like i said countries were not invented in the last 30 years.

we can be self sustainable. just CHOOSE not to

food does not need to be grown within 10 metres of someones house to be local
if you actually worked out the footprint needed of a house per person. and worked out the land to feed that person. there i enough.

cities are not mega populated non garden area's out of lack of space. its out of people wanting to profit by selling land suitable for 4 houses. into apartment blocks for 100 people.

people do not need to be squeezed into an apartment. they CHOOSE to be within 10 minutes walk of work because of a lifestyle choice

instead of being nomad's for survival. walking around all day to live. we have chosen to reduce our daily travel for work. and then increase our distance of travel for pleasure

cities can't there are many logistic problems for cities. also farming needs equipment, and a regular supply of labour and nutriets, if china controlls more and more technology. it can get ugly and dangerous for other parts of the world.

countries were not invented in the era of the 1970's+

people actually can grow their own local veg of food groups that a re suitable for that area, and eat them

its the abundance of choice people want that makes people in the UK for instance want to get thai dragon fruit.
thai dragon fruit and asparagus is not a basic/crutial dietary need for brits. its a luxury/lifestyle food.

the issue is not need but ability and choice of variety.
if people want a car. UK can create all the cars needed. but some dont want just a basic car, some want styleish cars. some want glamourous cars.

functionally countries can survive on their own.
The UK can and right now proving they can make their own ventilators when the NEED arises.

the problem is that being able to get it elsewhere makes it less of a NEED to be self sustainable

..
we are not reliant on other countries. so we are not slave to china. but luxury consumerism just makes people want things from different places.. its a 'want' not an 'need' problem

dependency and political power, a societiey that isn't open can use its exporting and manufacturing capabilities to enslave everyone else

food does not catch corona. there was no reason to stop delivering food around the world
you will still get your coconut oil from brazil. your oranges from florida. and your other veg from all over the place..

trying to make corona into a reason to stop getting food from china is stupid.

yes for 100 years it has always been best to 'buy local'
and with LED greenhouse farming. places that dont have good climates can start growing things not meant for their climate. so yes in years to decades things can change

but the 'food source' debate is not a corona debate

i checked in my supermarket obviously china is exporting masses of food abroad especially also aspargus

https://netzfrauen.org/2017/04/04/mogelpackung-herkunft/

this is actually very bad for europe as it is losing selfsufficiency raw food ingredients should be produced locally only served and exotic food (luxury) should be allowed to ship.

first of all
china done many things different to the rest of the world

3 weeks after patient zero. they informed the world. and that month they worked on making extra hospital bed capacity and such.
when they had a case, they followed up to find everyone that person came into contact with and immediately self isolate them, no matter if they had symptoms or not. and checked on them daily to make sure they were following through

during this month they also got people to socially distance and isolate if mildly symptomatic. and followed through finding contacts of those symptomatic. then self isolating of everyone

.....
however this self isolating is not the end of the local thing for china. because 99% who self isolated are YET to get it.
infact china are today reporting signs of their second wave..
(chinas first wave was calm before the storm)
..
other countries knew about it in january. but were still asking people to travel home from china to their home countries like italy, uk, us etc, even as late as march.
UK/US during march only started expanding beds and making more ventilator saying weeks more before what they believe is optimum capacity of resources to be prepared. (emphasis to be prepared. not to be over it)

UK/US did not follow up to try locating those who might have come into contact with those with corona.

but with all that said. the whole 'curbing the spike' self isolation first wave is not designed to end the virus spread completely. its purely to reduce numbers in one go.
its obvious china done good on their first wave.. but this is not the only wave.
yet more is to come.

china has some strange numbers regarding chorona epedemic that make it doubtable weather china is able to really be that successful as they pretend,

also in other fields china gives out strange numbers like for example the human intensive farming of Asparagus

according to my german wikipedia site china produces 87.6% of the worlds aspargus, https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gem%C3%BCsespargel

with 1.3 billion people,

germany produces just 133.020 tones of it with 83 million people economy, while china produces 7.982.230 tones

china has 15 times more people than germany, but produces 60 times more asparus per person than germany, and that although germany is farming quite a lot of aspargus.

what is happening with all the aspargus produced in china, are they exporting it worldwide? or does it get wasted or is the number a lie in the first place?

are chinese official numbers actually trustworthy?

regards