Topic: Citizenship Amendment Bill and NRC - Good or bad for India? (Read 571 times)

See this video this is how everything begun : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUTnc9kqLuA

You can see even the minister publicly admits that we will be patient until trump leaves India and after than police stay away we will clear everything.More than 40 people were killed by RSS supporters alias MODI ji believers and injured 200+ till now.You can see the real happenings on social media videos on that RSS people got pistols in hand and shooting random protestants and killing them in frong of police and para military forces just because they were under control of MODI ji Government.

If you are a human then you won't say everything is good now.

What happened? Can you elaborate?

^I had seen local news covering the frauds related to EVMs after polling day on which the box used to lock the machines got changed after polled day itself so there is something happening beyond general public attention.

And also did you ever seen a news that even there is zero vote polled for some election candidate but do you think that they will vote for other candidates.

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India become highly corrupted since we got independence and both ruled and ruling party did damage to nation because there is no third big opposition party in our country.

Akram have you ever witnessed an election using EVM's during the polling stage and the counting stage. Especially after the introduction of VVPATs? People who claim that EVMs can be tampered are simply misinformed and are underestimating the honesty of the millions of general Indians of all races, religions and classes that oversee the election process. They also over-estimate the ruling govts ability to somehow rig the counting results.

If rigging really can happen, then it can happen only at the final publishing stage. Though, even that process is pretty much instant and verifiable/ transparent to all stakeholders. By harping on EVM's to target BJP's politics, the opposition is simply shirking the responsibility for being a shitty opposition. The problem in our country today is not EVM's, but the fact that the oldest party in India is being run by an imbecile fool who has the leadership skills of a 12 year old. And i swear i have seen 12 year olds with better presence of mind and leadership abilities.

That fucking idiot is hoisted on a party of congressmen supported by this sycophantic family structure. What we need is a solid opposition. The problem is nobody really seems to have any interest or the conviction of ethics behind their actions. If you are a leftist/ minority/ anti-saffron (by habit), then stop targeting BJP and set your own house straight. Tell your fucking leaders to actually lead and remove that moron Rahul Gandhi. The party of giants like Lajpat Rai, Nehru, Indira Gandhi (despite all the damage she did) is being run by this fucker who lives only for his regular timeouts at foreign locales. And no, leaders like Kanhaiya and Khalid will not cut it because they simply don't have an inclusive agenda and are too deeply affected by their victim mentalities to actually do anything. All they can do is rouse a crowd to abuse BJP/ Modi and question the integrity of our society and country.

Know this, Abusing Modi, Blaming EVM's, Calling righists Gaumutra drinkers on twitter, doling out sophisticated English satire WILL NOT dent the BJP's politics. We need leaders who have the conviction of their ethics.

Has there been independent reviews and research in to their safety? If they can be hacked then they can be manipulated so there should be an independent review in to their functionality at least.

Everything is good, just have faith over MODI . What you guys did in New Delhi is definitely heinous .

Germany banned EVMs,Netherland banned EVMs,UK,USA and the list goes on.These countries banned EVMs in election because it can be easily tampered that is the real fact.

You are talking about MLA election? the figures included for them as well and panchayat election still uses ballot paper.

EVMs are safe... Let's keep this aside... The public is voting for what it embodies, minority oppression and majoritarianism; sprinkled with Fake VIKAS.


P.S.
The rest of those EVMs were bought by State Election Commissions for various Local Body elections.

Definitely yes!

And also another fact,there is only two companies producing EVM for Indian election commission.They mentioned 200k EVMs were created until 2019 but only 40-50% were bought by the election commission of India then who bought the remaining manufactured EVMs.

Would you say getting rid of EVMs is the best thing to do? That might make things better for those that want to have more transparency?

Another big chaotic situation in Delhi now and government claims policemen were attacked by the protestants and one got killed while many are in serious injuries.But I can see videos on that some guys roam around the streets with pistols in Hand and shooting random people who gave them such powers,just because they are part of RSS.

The model of policing in India has always been exclusionary and oppressive since it is a colonial legacy till date, we have had multiple reforms suggested be it the Padmanabhaiah Committee on Police Reforms or the SC view in Prakash Singh Case.

Police acts as a fiefdom of the political party and imposes its ideology in their actions, hence the resulting action.

Also, no political party is ready to give police autonomy to act in consonance with the rules of the land; be it the BJP, Congress or even Left govt in Kerala.

But its heart breaking to see our policemen who act like paid rowdies from government who doesn't even show any mercy to women and kids while charging and beating them even when every protestant keep doing their protest in peaceful way.

EVMs cannot be hacked under the current system, I know ppl who handle them during the elections. The only thing possible is proxy voting, i.e. putting in votes for ppl who were absent from the booth.

Apart from this let me state, BJP is simply using the policy of Divisiveness to further it's agenda of a narrow North Indian Brahmin Manuvadi Hindu Rashtra... It's not even inclusive for Hindus of all shades...

CAA is a discriminatory law, I do not oppose the basis on which it stands, but I do oppose the current form (similarly I do not oppose reservations, but I do oppose the current form; even EWS is flawed), NRC will be a totally useless exercise which will push millions to the brink of abject poverty and statelessness. I do not agree with the individuals who posted stating that we shud not protest the laws, but wait for Supreme Court. I disagree; the SC has proved time and again that when asked to Bow, the Judges crawl.

WE SHUD PROTEST PEACEFULLY BUT VEHEMENTLY AGAINST INJUSTICE IN ALL FORMS.

P.S. It is heartening to see that our fellow Muslims are protesting in a secular constitutional way and not relying on Maulvis and Fatwas to lead the way.  

AFAIK,AAM ADHMI party proved its possible to tamper the machine before the vote counting day with the data in the favour of anyone and the case is still in pending at the court but the ruling time period got exhausted already so who cares once they got into the power because they are the one who is going to control the entire actions.Now they have EVM so they can win elections forever and no chance for the opposition to prove anything anymore.

I also heard from people that the electronic voting machines (EVM) were hacked in the previous general election but I do not think there was ever conclusive proof but if you say it was proved that they could be hacked then you have the proof I suppose.

No matter how unlikely, if the opposition came to power in the next election do you think they would be able to change anything?

As long as Electronic Voting Machine (EVM) used for polling BJB is going to win the elections.

Many parties proved that EVM can be hacked and altered the polled results to election commission of India but still they claims that no one can change the results so they are also getting corrupted.

Moreover the opposition part Congress not have much support from public and there is no third national party in India who can take advantage of this and win elections.

I am not foo familiar with the issues and background politics but what several news media outlets and online chats show is that the current government was beaten in the election that took place days ago in Delhi and that was the first election of any standing that took place after the controversial law was introduced. If that is a sign of things to come then maybe they will not be too successful at the next general election and that is saying something considering the current Prime Minister and his party won by a landslide in the 2019 elections.

Even though if they said they have no plans to bring NRC for now,they are doing it.For example when someone wants to apply for aadhar correction or new application there is a column for NRC certificate,if you failed to provide the details then you may not be considered as citizen of India even if you got Aaadhar.And also in nationalized bank account opening applications already got something about NRC.

If they have no intention of implementing such law then why they implemented on such things.

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Thanks for those merits. Indian community is on the right path now in Bitcointalk.

Things are not as simple as they seem from distance. No doubt thousands of Indians have protested against CAA during last 70 days. But most of the genuine protests are now over. Whatever left now is orchestrated drama from opposition parties and communists. One of the most prominent destination of protest currently is Shaheen Bagh. It is clearly evident that protesters there are paid certain amount and free food daily.

Protests during December had great success and they put government on backfoot regarding NRC. As a result, government decided not to bring NRC into picture for now. Story over! But some people still keep on dragging protest for no reason. It won't take much intelligence to figure out that current protest is more of a propaganda than serious rebel. 

By the way,
Messi obviously!

New CAB shows that ruling part clearly hates Muslims and wanted to build vote banks by saying Hindustan and Hindus.

Now NRC becomes more hot topic and it looks Indian government is going to take Census and verify their identity of each and every people sooner.What the funny fact is they don't accept Aadhar (national ID of every Indian) and Passport to prove that they are Indians.

From what I have read and seen regarding this subject, it is a highly contentious issue in India. So many people of all ages and religions are demonstrating in many cities against this bill by protesting peacefully by arranging sit ins.

But slowly Indian people starts to believe their lies or just pretend that India is nation for Hindus just to get more benefits if there are no more Muslims in this country but they never realized that once if Muslims got dumped then caste related issues will be burst to separate further more.

Absolutely! Just to add, please read the below news as well,

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/bjp-gains-in-polls-after-every-riot-says-yale-study/articleshow/45378840.cms

Whenever there is a riot, BJP benefited from it. Our Prime Minister is not a Saint, rather Godhra happened during his tenure where Amit Shah was the Home Minister!

These voices are from a group who never participated in the freedom struggle and the ideology of  Hindutva belongs to Savarkar who licked the British to get released from jail whenever he was arrested by the British by providing sensitive information about the plans on how the freedom fighters are planning next and now they are coming up are painting him as a saint and freedom fighter which is bull shit. These are documented history in India and they are trying to spread a different version which is bullshit lies.
It is true that the region was ruled by several kings according to the region and India was prone to foreign invasion for thousands of years and we united as a nation to fight against imperial rulers and now we are one and we do not want some stupid leaders to separate us further.

CAA and NRC are just mind diverting topic for the government because our finance minister is unable to hold economy and its drowning day by day....the idea of creating tension between 2 major religion of a country is soo beneficial for the government as this trick worked for almost 100 years for the britishers and it still works.

Regards

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BJP claims that India is a country of Hindus but it actually never a country before East India colonize there,before that it was just separated as thousands of small nations which was ruled by kings.

The situation has led to the doom of BJP. It lost in Jharkhand. Whatever it is, BJP shouldn't have isolated one religion when they know the tolerance level of the country is below 0 when it comes to religion.

^ Citizens everything when they see currency note on the hands of politicians at the time of election time and also they get manipulated heavily at that time but the real voter should take all the actions into the account while voting in their ruling period to get much clear vision of what should be done.

If some snatch the power in the name of fake patriotism and in a country where majority of the voters are illiterate who likes to hear good words from every politicians and on top of that if patriotism is used to get the voters motivated during the elections what more can we expect.

I am expecting any turn of events to show patriotism during the next election and the dumb fold people will forget everything else and vote for the current political players once again. Even if majority of the people are able to see the fake patriotism showcased by these politicians the voting majority things otherwise because they might be getting a few thousand rupees on the day of voting and that is how the voting bank works.

When we give someone as supreme power and no power to oppose the decision from the ruling party to opposition party then these things will happen.

Just be patient and show what we can do on the voting day until that no one can save us.

If the elected representatives are not doing their job and if an elected government try to create chaos then the people will protest, historically we gained freedom by peaceful and violent protest against the British and now you are telling that these protest should not be done even when they are doing things against the secular constitution of India more over the protest are peaceful but the government is trying to make it appear as if these are violent protest to silence everyone and that cannot happen in India, this is a democracy which believes in secularism and if some stupid ideology is imposed by some the entire country will not ring to that tune.

This bill on its own is very less productive. The only reason why BJP introduced this bill is for political gain. In short, it's a political stunt to impress Hindus.
But is it right to oppose bill through protests and all? No! I would suggest people remain calm and don't react much to this bill (or act now) because although act is not doing any greater good and is surely biased but on the other hand, it isn't even doing wrongful to anyone. So why so much anger?

Now coming to NRC. I won't tell whether I support NRC or not but there is one reason why I strongly oppose NRC and i.e. high chance of errors. Government may have good intention behind it, who knows but execution of NRC throughout country will create unnecessary chaos. I have experience in maintaining 'Register of Members' under Companies Act and believe me it's too complicated. Now imagine if maintaining register for handful of members is that difficult, how difficult would be to maintain register for every citizen of country! It's crazy to even think about it. Many people will have their names even though they don't qualify, many people won't have their names even though they qualify! Chaos! Chaos!

The judiciary is the final resolution for these unconstitutional bill as we as Indians  have to uphold our country and its constitution, Pakistan was created because they wanted a country on religious terms and BJP as a political movement were no where representing India in the freedom struggle as they were with the British and now they want to change history and constitution of India which cannot be accepted.

I agree with this completely, they knew that there will be strikes and uncertainty all over the country and it is their hidden agenda to create uncertainty in India and the prime example was the organized attack by the Delhi police to burn the buses and then blame those in the name of protestors and to silence every protest.

Nothing is going to change because of the mass protest. Supreme court might set aside the act as it is unconstitutional. But I am sure that Modi and Amit Shah were already aware about the possibility of a judicial review, when they passed the unconstitutional bill.

IMHO, they aren't even interested in giving citizenship to the refugees as they claim to be, all they are interested is the vote bank.. 95+ crore Hindus and 5+ crore other religious members (Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis and Bhuddists). To these communities, now Modi and Amit Shah are their saviours. Even if SC strikes down CAB, Modi and Amit Shah will be happy as they have achieved their hidden agenda.

^Only explanation given by the government side for this CAB will was they will give shelter for minorities because they were tortured by neighbouring countries so they give citizenship to them.But already Northern east part of India and state like Delhi is on chaos for this issue and soon all over India there will be more protest will happen.

My question is,will there be an change on CAB if protest goes that big?

Currently, only six religions (Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis and Christians) are eligible under CAB.
Have you heard of Ahmadiyya Muslims? Ahmadiyya Muslims are declared as non-muslims in Pakistan. I hope this answers your question. And I never said that Muslims can't apply for citizenship. I'm just saying that CAB is giving special privileges to a certain sector and neglecting others.

There are many questions unanswered here -
Why not add Ahmadiyya Muslims to the list?
Why not include other faiths?
What happened to atheists?
What happened to the refugees from Myanmar and Sirlanka? Myanmar has a history of persecution towards Rohingya Muslims, so does Srilanka with Tamil Elam's.
So why the special treatment towards these three Muslim nations?

For argument sake, if it was only Pakistan and Bangladesh, then we can say that they were separated from India once. But when you add Afghanistan why not add the Buddhist nations, Srilanka and Myanmar too?

its for minorities of those 3 countries now can you tell me one thing, if you are Muslim and living in Mulsim country then how come you will be in minorities?
even Muslims can apply for citizenship, i don't know who told you that Muslims can not apply for citizenship of India. it's just the few politicians those using this for getting there vote bank in upcoming elections on the name of CAB.

link to bill  please check once and tell me where it says muslims cant not apply for cititzenship of India - http://164.100.47.4/BillsTexts/LSBillTexts/Asintroduced/370_2019_LS_Eng.pdf

The citizenship amendment bill is completely unconstitutional. The preamble of the Indian Constitution starts like this
When you exempt the Muslims from the bill, the country is no longer secular as they claim to be. By passing this bill, the Government is creating further rift between the Muslims and other religious communities in India. The think is when you have absolute majority in the house, you can pass whatever bullshit you want, even if it's unconstitutional.
And as Clement Kaliyar pointed out, this throws a bad light on the nation and should not be entertained.

The funny things about this bill is that you decide you are a non Muslim then you are entitled to become a citizen but is shows a different light about the state of the nation to the world as it is aiming forward the religious fundamentalism rather than upholding the constitution of secularism as we as a country allows all kind of religion and respect other cultures but this fundamentalist idea should not be entertained.

I don't have much deeper knowledge about these things.

But what I read was 11 years changed to 5 years so anyone from the mentioned 3 countries can be natural Indian citizen if they can stay longer than 5 years but except Muslims.So again these things happening for political benefits not for any good cause.

I'm sure, this topic needs no further explanation as it is a hot topic right now everywhere! Even though it is not related to cryptos but I am sure want to know what people are thinking. I am listening to different opinions from different people about it - some are saying it will disturb the normal course of life in India and some people are saying it will be great for the future of India.

Please speak out your thoughts on it! Whatever your take on it, don't miss the reason!