Topic: Claim an old wallet and find the relative owner. (Read 253 times)

Move a small amount and wait to see if the funds move, if they didn't move for months, try to move the rest but not at once, and then wait and research about a possible owner, sometimes people who have lost their coins go around and talk about it, so there should be some chatter on social medias.

Eventually if after a year no one claimed them, you should give 1/5 to charity and take the rest.(this assumes the funds have no owner).

Exactly, main purpose of this OP were procedure to adopt in case of finding an old wallet of many years ago which seems to be "in appearance" lost.  As everyone said, I know that it isn't almost impossible, but it can happen,

also if it is very difficulty. And in case of it, there must be a sort of procedure of code to adopt in way to act in the best way possible.

I believe @OP just created a made-up story just for the sake of discussion creating a scenario where he wanted to know the reaction and point of view of every individual that read the case presented.  So we can pretend to think that the case happened and @OP wanted us to suggest something about his inquiries.


The thing is, the case provided by @OP is different, it is about a lost privatekey and it is all about someone who happen to stumble on an old private key that is loitering around and there is no way  to return the said items to the owner, obviously, any Bitcoin address that is not linked to any centralized services is anonymous.  So as I stated in my first reply[1] on this thread,  he can acquire ownership or rights on that lost private key with funds if he did the necessary procedure but the owner failed to claim the lost item. 


True that but why so serious about the possibility or impossibility of the given case, I believe this is just a case study and the example is just a made-up scenario.


Stealing one's property is against the law and immoral but if you happen to stumble on an item whose owner is unknown and there is no chance to return that item, there are laws provided for that scenario where the person who finds it can have the legal right to own that lost item or property.  Obviously it has to undergo certain procedures, time frames, and the failure of the owner to claim the lost item.

As stated by the common law[2], the founder can keep the item until the owner comes and claim it.  He can keep but he cannot spend or move it but the Modern interpretation of the law where many jurisdictions have statutes that modify the common law's treatment of lost property  states that:

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[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62059069
[2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/statute

But how do you know you need to find the owner? they could have other backups with them and you just need to destroy your copy so all is well again.

In any case, such scenerio is unlikely to happen and hence you shouldn't worry too much op.

Honestly, finding a wallet that has never moved a coin out 12 to 13 years ago, and also finding a way to break into such a wallet is near impossible, I cant say it's not possible, but it's very very near impossible..

And if somehow, you manage to gain access into the wallet, to know if moving the fund is stealing or not, we have to find out what stealing truly is..

Here is what the dictionary say stealing is "To take illegally, or without the owner's permission, something owned by someone else."....

So definitely, moving the funds is stealing, as long as you don't have permission from the real owner of the wallet to do so.

And again, finding the true owner of a wallet, most especially, when the person already lost his or her private keys, is another near impossible thing to do, so if you gain access to someones wallet who already lost his or her private keys, you have no choice but to move the funds, but consider yourself as a thief already..

But just incase you don't wanna steal, or be tempted to, then stay away from snooping on people's wallet.

@OP this article[1] is applicable to your case.

First we can tag the item stated as a lost item(Bitcoin private key) since the owner lost it.  Basically, the normal law on that is that the one who found the lost item can keep it until the proven owner came knocking to your door claiming his lost item.

But, the modern interpertaion of the law estate that you need to submit or turn the found lost item to the government official and if the property is not claimed within the set period of time, the founder will be the new owner of the item and the right of the previous owner to the property is terminated.

So the answer would be, if there is no one claiming the funds for a certain amount of time ( fund unmoved) upon registering it as a lost item on the government official then your claim would be legit.  Though it is very complicated matter but if the law is implemented, that should be the case.

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[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/lost_property#:~:text=At%20common%20law%2C%20a%20person,lost%20property%20on%20their%20property.

The question is, what kind of wallet you will find, a PK in qr code, naked PK in txt file? all are digitally copy? From 12-13 years ago? That's nearly impossible though.

Anyway, If you think that getting other funds is stealing then you should avoid moving the funds from that wallet. This make the question 2,3,4 and 5 out of the context.

I must say, you have presented quite a fascinating thought experiment! The strength of cryptography in Bitcoin is a topic that piques interest, and it's understandable why this puzzle has captivated your attention. Regarding your query about finding an old wallet with untouched Bitcoin, it's a delicate matter to ponder upon. On one hand, you could be a benefactor by helping someone recover their lost funds, which would be a remarkable gesture of goodwill. But, on the other hand, it might be considered theft since you would be taking someone else's property without their consent. It's a problem that requires careful consideration.

In the event that you do elect to pursue this endeavor, it is essential that you take appropriate precautions to safeguard yourself and the owner of the wallet. Tracking down the owner may prove to be a challenging task, but not an insurmountable one. You might attempt to establish contact via social media or other online channels, though be prepared for an extensive search. Alternatively, you might opt to enlist the services of a private investigator, though the cost could be quite high.

It's solely your call if you opt to retain the monetary resources or restitute them to their lawful proprietor. It's your innermost consciousness that will dictate your verdict. But bear in mind, possessing significant clout necessitates the shouldering of significant accountability. Best wishes on your quest, and I hope you attain your objective!

The points:

1 - There is no need to touch what doesn't belong to you. It is better not to move unless necessary.

2 - I approve. Need to find a way to contact the owner of the wallet. The option that comes to mind is sending dust with text giving information to contact you.

3 - Human gratitude - this is the best reward that you should initially count on. Anything more is on the conscience of owner.

To return, you need to know who.

4 - Here have to think carefully, because the task is not easy.

5 - This is rather a matter of morality, because the concept of legality at the moment is practically not applicable to crypto. How can one consider theft that which officially doesn't exist?

The answer to this point can be found in my 1st answer.

Seems fun in a theoretical and morally perfect person's opinion I think that not a big thing to return a huge treasure but in practical life deployment it seems impossible. In your idle case, the most terrifying step of yours is 2nd. I know there is nothing impossible in digital world but this one is close to impossible haha you can say that i-possible just 'm' is missing.

If everything goes fine with the OP's imagination I can assure you that person will defiantly give you honor and some bounty as well. The person whom you are considering the real owner bro this part is the actual test of the story as when you will offer a big amount to anyone he will directly try to convince you that it's really him who lost it a long time ago and maybe he might try to bribe you well if it happens then you better know what it means.

For the last point, I think it's not at all stealing because the money was lost and the owner accepted many of the members already explained this point perfectly in the above posts so you can keep it (Not in every case if you really found the right man then you need to give it back) and charity is a good option even better.
 

I really doubt someone who get or have access to old wallet which contain huge number of Bitcoin will want to return back to the original owner. Someone can just mix the coins and trade it on a decentralized exchange, so the government can't stop him.

But if we talking about you want to refund back to the original owner, you can just send all the coins to your wallet and then wait until someone can sign a message from the old address.

Really it will be hard to find a owner of a bitcoin Wallet address if the hardware gets lost, most if happened to a country that the police is also an bitcoin illiterate, but if the police in the country is conversant with bitcoin then you can give to them for them to locate the owner but you have to follow up.
This related thread has been discussed in the Wallet software board last year and Op I think this can help you to find some answers from the questions you asked https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-found-a-paper-wallet-on-a-beach-seriously-5408263, But if don't want to involve the law enforcement agencies then you keep the funds. I don't think African police can tracked such technical issue and if they know how to do it, they would take the funds for their personal use.

In many countries, after announcing the existence of something and opening a report at the police station, you get 10% of the assets.
I do not know what the details are in other countries, but if the amount is large, it is better to consult a lawyer.
You can safely transfer the funds to a new wallet and announce it, but then you will bear all the legal consequences if you lose those funds.

Therefore, ask a lawyer if the amount is large, transfer the money to a safe wallet, and then you will get 10% in many countries.

Note that these coins may be stolen, and then, once you move them, you may get yourself into legal problems that lead you to prison.

Maybe you've read only subject of topic and not what I've written about it.

There are a LOT of address that has been lost during this years. It could happen (of course it won't, but who I am to say it) that you could find an address which has BTC inside it, just take a look at the history of persons that

has lost access to their wallet. In some case what you would do? About me, as written, my 1st target would be to find the original owner of that account for refund that sources.

people aged 20+ put money into a pension plan and dont touch it for upto 45 years
if you consider just 10 years as lost. then pension fund managers can steal the pension pot of funds because no one touched them for 10 years... or.. reality is that its classed as theft

as for you hoping you will come across such an address
many thousands of people have been trying to brute force all signature data of satoshis known address spend to hal finney because that address was re-used half a dozen times thus there is some data leakage which many people warn can cause key leakage.... YET no one has managed to steal those funds

so goodluck with your dream, but you might be better off trying to spend your time on more legitimate ways of getting funds

To be clear efforts like LBC is not to "find addresses" but instead to "solve a puzzle" which means they can only find the key to an address that was meant to be found not random addresses with balance that were created using a "normal" RNG. If you check the keys they've found so far you can clearly see that all those keys are in a very tiny range making it easy to be found.

It is stealing. Simple as that.

Yeah, nice joke.
Considered lost by whom? And why?

Doesn't matter what you think, there's no way for you to tell if coins are lost at all, just because they haven't moved for 12-13years.
Whatever you tell yourself, you're just trying to justify your stealing.


Not to mention that when you're able to "find" PKs to those lost coins, what's stopping you from "finding" PKs to any other coins? All coins would be in danger of put in safe way by you or anyone else.
No coin would be safe anymore.

1. You would definitely tending to transfer it on a wallet which keys havent been trying out to be bruteforced or something that it isnt really that in hot spot.
2. Impossble! You would get lots of pm's by those scammers
3. If you are that honest then you could do such thing but ofcourse this do involved huge amounts of money so its unlikely you would do that
4. There's no way on avoiding it because finding the real owner would be the toughest challenge of all
5. Getting on what you dont own is stealing but since its considered lost and for sure its owner had already accepted his fate
then it wouldnt be so bad on getting those since you are the ones who do able to access it out.

All of these things could be answered if you have successfully cracking out a PK which we know that it is close to impossible.

If I find a wallet full of bitcoins in a few years it is hidden in the wallet I got. It's quite a big challenge for me how to return it to the rightful owner.

Maybe somehow I can have an idea where it had transactions that will just take time to find out who owns it. And the difficult thing here is who is the real owner because anyone can declare that the wallet belongs to him. Unless it has proof that it is really his when he opens it in a bitcoin software wallet that holds the seed phrase or private key.

I think with enough computing power you could track it down granted that the device at least was connected to the internet from years ago, but if it is not, and it is just stored on a paper wallet, with the serial tape/serial number of the safe faded due to normal wear and tear, basically you wouldn't have any chance of finding the owner of the wallet. In all honesty, at that point if it were to be true scenario I'd fully advise you keep the loot and take the bitcoins locked away in it for yourself. No one will be able to prove that it's theirs unless they know the seedphrase or the private key but that's a farfetched dream considering more than a decade has passed based on your scenario.

So to sum it all up. With the current level of technology we have, there's no way of telling who the owner of the wallet was or even details about its previous ownership, and if the paper wallet you discovered included private key, use it up for yourself and keep it to you instead. Scammers are rampant nowadays and I personally wouldn't risk it just to reach some kind of moral high ground.

If it would happen, before to do it I'll always try to find the possible owner, if my search won't be successfull I'll use funds for launch here big signature campaign for charity project (it is the best way to say thanks to this

forum for what it has made for me). I don't understand your last sentence, what does it mean? If I move funds from "ADDRESS FOUND" to "NEW ADDRESS" in which way it could be recovered?

It's becoming challenging to comprehend all of your inquiries, but from what I understand, you're asking about what to do if you come across a lost wallet with an unknown owner. Although this situation is unlikely to occur, if it does happen, there may not be a feasible way to track down the rightful owner. However, if you're an honest individual, you could consider donating the funds to charity. It's important to avoid moving the funds for an extended period because the original owner may have a duplicate set of private keys and may be holding onto them.

I was thinking in this days at bitcoin puzzle which seems to be really interesting in way to test the "strength" of Bitcoin cryptography; I was really surprised about LBC efforts to find addresses and try solve it.

Now, question that I'd like to submit is this one:

- What if I find a wallet that has never moved nothing since 12-13 years ago (for example)?

- My thoughts was:

1) Put in safe way what I've found on a new key, maybe a paper wallet.

2) Try with all the efforts to contact/find the owner of this address.

3) Refund to him/her their bitcoin (maybe it can be some guy which has lost his private key many years ago) and eventually receive some bounty as gift.

4) About 3rd question, in which way is possible to find an owner of an address, prove that it is really him/her and avoid scammers?

5) If I found funds from an old wallet, is it legit or is it considering as "steal"?