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Topic: [Closed] 250 BTC loan @ 0.5% interest per day !!! (Read 3342 times)

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Interesting thread with some relevant points included and a couple missed.

INAUM (shortened) got into Pirate's loan scheme as an early adopter and took greater risk that they might not be paid back.  1% is a good rate, but it is unsecured and might all disappear if it grew into a giant ponzi worth millions.  He picked a division of profit that seemed reasonable and still profitable for someone putting in $1k of coins (roughly $5/day for a month in interest).  That's enough to get someone to bother moving coins around, and if you don't like it or can do better, he's not forcing anyone to take the risk or accept the interest.

For 0.5%/day for a user (INAUM) who has invested a lot into btc, it looks pretty reasonable and if I had done some different purchasing earlier this month I would have some coins that might have gone this direction.  Unfortunately I've been increasing my risk exposure as an early-ish adopter in Pirate's loan programme and have some funds parked there.

Hell of a lot better than 1.25% for 3 months - anyone with debt can probably get two to our times that return, and most can get equivalent returns from a real financial institution.  Plus, this kind of dealing (and credit to the smart people at the pointy end of this) will help grow the BTC economy.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
ok, got plenty of offers now...  No more money is needed at the moment.
donator
Activity: 266
Merit: 252
I'm actually a pineapple
If things go south, he can walk away and be a criminal. All the standard risk and profit/loss calculations people perform in finance make the assumption that you aren't going to shoot people in the head or screw them. Counterparty risk is the assumption that they might possibly do that to you Smiley

Ok we can stop the hyperbole.  Defaulting on an unsecured loan isn't a criminal act.  Not in the US, not anywhere.

Yes I get the concept of counterparty risk the point is the middle man has no financial stake in the game.  The only thing being risked is reputation.  

Personally to me that makes it a crappy deal when profit is split 50/50 and one person is risking actual assets and the other is risking only reputation.

If you disagree I assume you are interested in this deal?
You risk your life savings
I risk only my reputation
We split the profit 50/50
How much do you want to risk/invest?  I will gladly risk/invest up to $100K of your money on my reputation. Smiley

It's not hyperbole. He agreed to give someone their money back, and if he doesn't, he can't simply walk away. He may default, but there's a lot more involved in that than just reputation (assuming we have "real-world" information about him, which I'd hope a lender would insist on). Anyway, all I'm saying is that the risk to him was small, but not zero. I'm disinterested in this whole thing, and think it's arrogant to assume that the only reason someone would disagree with you is that they have something to gain by doing so.

Edit: oh crap, I was in the middle of cooking and misinterpreted your "if you disagree I assume you are interested in this deal". Disregard the arrogance comment above, sorry Smiley regardless, your "it's your life savings vs. my reputation" argument applies to any loan, and not just this one, so I stand by my "small risk, but not zero" statement earlier Smiley
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1080
Gerald Davis
If things go south, he can walk away and be a criminal. All the standard risk and profit/loss calculations people perform in finance make the assumption that you aren't going to shoot people in the head or screw them. Counterparty risk is the assumption that they might possibly do that to you Smiley

Ok we can stop the hyperbole.  Defaulting on an unsecured loan isn't a criminal act.  Not in the US, not anywhere.

Yes I get the concept of counterparty risk the point is the middle man has no financial stake in the game.  The only thing being risked is reputation.  

Personally to me that makes it a crappy deal when profit is split 50/50 and one person is risking actual assets and the other is risking only reputation.

If you disagree I assume you are interested in this deal?
You risk your life savings
I risk only my reputation
We split the profit 50/50
How much do you want to risk/invest?  I will gladly risk/invest up to $100K of your money on my reputation. Smiley
donator
Activity: 266
Merit: 252
I'm actually a pineapple
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.

Well not for the OP.  return is multiplied and risk is reduced to nothing. Smiley

Not really. He's both a lender and a borrower, and in this case he's lending more than he actually has, and thus if pirateat40 defaults (sure, unlikely), he'll be in even deeper shit than if he was just lending his own money, because he'll still owe money to his own lender. This borrow->lend business he wants to do is mostly arbitrage, so risk is low, but counterparty risk is still nonzero Smiley

Well my point is he isn't risking any capital.  If things go south he can (not that he will) simply walk away.  His maximum net loss if walking away is 0.00

If things go south, he can walk away and be a criminal. All the standard risk and profit/loss calculations people perform in finance make the assumption that you aren't going to shoot people in the head or screw them. Counterparty risk is the assumption that they might possibly do that to you Smiley
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1080
Gerald Davis
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.

Well not for the OP.  return is multiplied and risk is reduced to nothing. Smiley

Not really. He's both a lender and a borrower, and in this case he's lending more than he actually has, and thus if pirateat40 defaults (sure, unlikely), he'll be in even deeper shit than if he was just lending his own money, because he'll still owe money to his own lender. This borrow->lend business he wants to do is mostly arbitrage, so risk is low, but counterparty risk is still nonzero Smiley

Well my point is he isn't risking any capital.  If things go south he can (not that he will) simply walk away.  His maximum net loss if walking away is 0.00
donator
Activity: 266
Merit: 252
I'm actually a pineapple
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.

Well not for the OP.  return is multiplied and risk is reduced to nothing. Smiley

Not really. He's both a lender and a borrower, and in this case he's lending more than he actually has, and thus if pirateat40 defaults (sure, unlikely), he'll be in even deeper shit than if he was just lending his own money, because he'll still owe money to his own lender. This borrow->lend business he wants to do is mostly arbitrage, so risk is low, but counterparty risk is still nonzero Smiley
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1080
Gerald Davis
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.

Well not for the OP.  return is multiplied and risk is reduced to nothing. Smiley
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Psi laju, karavani prolaze.
Anyone else have any questions?

Edit 2: If you have any outstanding issues/debts with either the forum or IRC don't even think about contacting me to invest.

hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
ok, let's try again. 0.5% daily interest, compounded. anyone? this is my last offer
17RiZ1eaAB9e29kuTxTh8UdPyWSiisAyaZ
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
150 BTC???

huh? if you want to lend 150 BTC, sure.  I can give you 0.9 a day for 150.
legendary
Activity: 2026
Merit: 1005
150 BTC???
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
Look, bottom line is that I'm offering an interest rate second only to pirate, and insuring your loan too.  Are you interested?

---

Ok, I've just updated the interest rate.  Now it's 1.5 BTC a day.  Anyone?
17RiZ1eaAB9e29kuTxTh8UdPyWSiisAyaZ

Not right now, bitcoins are occupied. But thanks for the clarification.

No problem Smiley

Anyone else have any questions?
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
Look, bottom line is that I'm offering an interest rate second only to pirate, and insuring your loan too.  Are you interested?

---

Ok, I've just updated the interest rate.  Now it's 1.5 BTC a day.  Anyone?
17RiZ1eaAB9e29kuTxTh8UdPyWSiisAyaZ

Not right now, bitcoins are occupied. But thanks for the clarification.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
In any case, I don't think that once you have an account you can just throw any amount of money into it and expect interests, makes no sense at all.

Actually, I think that's pretty much it.

It's a matter of time until someone comes here with a proposal like this: I am an early pirateat40's lender so I will rent my account to you at X% interest Grin


Exactly.  The proposal is fucking obvious.  However, I don't see why you people are objecting to this... there are people asking for much lower interest rates who have gotten loans.  The method I use to pay your interest should be irrelevant Smiley
If you are less of a risk than loaning directly to pirateat40 then what you say is true. However, it is not obvious that you are.

I see that other people have gotten loans so that they can loan to pirateat40, are they less of a risk that lenders should take a haircut in interest payments?




I am less of a risk, because I have money coming in and because both I and pirate can pay you back.  Essentially, you are diversifying your risk and paying me for the insurance.

You never know whether the other lenders are loaning to pirate or not.  What if ThiagoCMC were lending to pirate?  He'd make a tremendous profit on his 200 BTC loan.  It appears mentioning pirate at all was a mistake.

Look, bottom line is that I'm offering an interest rate second only to pirate, and insuring your loan too.  Are you interested?


---

Ok, I've just updated the interest rate.  Now it's 1.5 BTC a day.  Anyone?
17RiZ1eaAB9e29kuTxTh8UdPyWSiisAyaZ
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
In any case, I don't think that once you have an account you can just throw any amount of money into it and expect interests, makes no sense at all.

Actually, I think that's pretty much it.

It's a matter of time until someone comes here with a proposal like this: I am an early pirateat40's lender so I will rent my account to you at X% interest Grin


Exactly.  The proposal is fucking obvious.  However, I don't see why you people are objecting to this... there are people asking for much lower interest rates who have gotten loans.  The method I use to pay your interest should be irrelevant Smiley
If you are less of a risk than loaning directly to pirateat40 then what you say is true. However, it is not obvious that you are.

I see that other people have gotten loans so that they can loan to pirateat40, are they less of a risk that lenders should take a haircut in interest payments?


hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
In any case, I don't think that once you have an account you can just throw any amount of money into it and expect interests, makes no sense at all.

Actually, I think that's pretty much it.

It's a matter of time until someone comes here with a proposal like this: I am an early pirateat40's lender so I will rent my account to you at X% interest Grin


Exactly.  The proposal is fucking obvious.  However, I don't see why you people are objecting to this... there are people asking for much lower interest rates who have gotten loans.  The method I use to pay your interest should be irrelevant Smiley
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 502
In any case, I don't think that once you have an account you can just throw any amount of money into it and expect interests, makes no sense at all.

Actually, I think that's pretty much it.

It's a matter of time until someone comes here with a proposal like this: I am an early pirateat40's lender so I will rent my account to you at X% interest Grin
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.
Yes, this is exactly why I'm against what the op is trying to do here.
Well, I'm pretty sure he's not the only one.  I'll leave that for others to figure out, not hard BTW.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.
Yes, this is exactly why I'm against what the op is trying to do here.
sr. member
Activity: 349
Merit: 250
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
In this case risk is multiplied, for less return.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.

well this is how investing works, there can't be profit without risk.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
BitMinter
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

It's only a question of time until someone loses money at 1% daily rates.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
This is exactly what is wrong with the society today: too many middle men trying to get rich of others with doing nothing. If this is indeed the case and you can't lend to pirate directly you can lend to me and I'll give you your fair share of the profit. People like this make me sick.

In any case, I don't think that once you have an account you can just throw any amount of money into it and expect interests, makes no sense at all.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
So your interest is 0.4% a day?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1%2F250
are you retarded? I was just replying to make sure....
Looking at your frustration I'd say you are the retard. Oh well!
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1005
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
So your interest is 0.4% a day?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1%2F250
are you retarded? I was just replying to make sure....
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
So your interest is 0.4% a day?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1%2F250
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1005
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
So your interest is 0.4% a day?
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1005
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
your reputation?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
Update: You can loan a smaller amount, and be paid the proportional amount in interest.  Just thought I'd make that clear.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
So, basically, by lending you the coins, you're indirectly kicking someone out of pirate's program?

That makes no sense.

Sorry you feel that way.  But according to the current rules, it's fine with pirate and definitely beneficial for people who want to deposit right now, so whatever.  It's sort of a tradeoff... lower interest rates for guaranteed room in the program.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps


I appreciate you helping me in my complete lack of understand of his lending program. Sorry to derail your thread.

Aww, thought I had a lender Sad

Tongue

I too thought you might have had a lender too until the mention of early adopters being able to keep depositing into the program.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
So, basically, by lending you the coins, you're indirectly kicking someone out of pirate's program?

That makes no sense.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire

Hmmmm. These details are not in his original post. Can you point me to the location of this disclosure?

Also, in the event that I exceed my threshold of coins on incoming deposits I'll be manually making withdraws of principal and interest based on the age of your account.  Seniority rules and those accounts with a shorter age date will be liquidated first.

There you go Smiley

I appreciate you helping me in my complete lack of understand of his lending program. Sorry to derail your thread.

Aww, thought I had a lender Sad

Tongue
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps

Hmmmm. These details are not in his original post. Can you point me to the location of this disclosure?

Also, in the event that I exceed my threshold of coins on incoming deposits I'll be manually making withdraws of principal and interest based on the age of your account.  Seniority rules and those accounts with a shorter age date will be liquidated first.

There you go Smiley

I appreciate you helping me in my complete lack of understand of his lending program. Sorry to derail your thread.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
To be clear, you are implying that you have some type of special relationship with pirateat40 that is not advertised on his thread to get these coins into his program?

I am an earlier depositor.  Earlier depositors push out later ones when they deposit.

Hmmmm. These details are not in his original post. Can you point me to the location of this disclosure?

Also, in the event that I exceed my threshold of coins on incoming deposits I'll be manually making withdraws of principal and interest based on the age of your account.  Seniority rules and those accounts with a shorter age date will be liquidated first.

There you go Smiley
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
To be clear, you are implying that you have some type of special relationship with pirateat40 that is not advertised on his thread to get these coins into his program?

I am an earlier depositor.  Earlier depositors push out later ones when they deposit.

Hmmmm. These details are not in his original post. Can you point me to the location of this disclosure?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 501
That's pretty lame...
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
I apologize in advance if there is an obvious obvious answer to my question.

Why would someone loan you 250 btc to get paid 1 btc per day in interest when they can loan the funds directly to pirateat40 and make 2.5 btc per day?

Because pirate has 0 BTC storage available.

To be clear, you are implying that you have some type of special relationship with pirateat40 that is not advertised on his thread to get these coins into his program?

I am an earlier depositor.  Earlier depositors push out later ones when they deposit.
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
I apologize in advance if there is an obvious obvious answer to my question.

Why would someone loan you 250 btc to get paid 1 btc per day in interest when they can loan the funds directly to pirateat40 and make 2.5 btc per day?

Because pirate has 0 BTC storage available.

To be clear, you are implying that you have some type of special relationship with pirateat40 that is not advertised on his thread to get these coins into his program?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
Basically, someone owes me around $1k, and I will repay you when I get paid the $1k (within the next month).  In the meantime, I will be earning some interest in pirate's lending program to "hedge" against BTC price growth (well, it's not the most direct hedge, but whatever), and will pay you part of that interest (about half).

I apologize in advance if there is an obvious obvious answer to my question.

Why would someone loan you 250 btc to get paid 1 btc per day in interest when they can loan the funds directly to pirateat40 and make 2.5 btc per day?

Because pirate has 0 BTC storage available.
edit: Also, even if he had storage available, when the earlier depositors put in their money, you'd get squeezed out.  In addition to this, diversification of risk is good: I hereby give pirateat40 full permission to pay out the money from my BTC lending account if I disappear, try to scam people, etc. and do not pay back the money and interest.
Smiley
vip
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1000
AKA: gigavps
Basically, someone owes me around $1k, and I will repay you when I get paid the $1k (within the next month).  In the meantime, I will be earning some interest in pirate's lending program to "hedge" against BTC price growth (well, it's not the most direct hedge, but whatever), and will pay you part of that interest (about half).

I apologize in advance if there is an obvious obvious answer to my question.

Why would someone loan you 250 btc to get paid 1 btc per day in interest when they can loan the funds directly to pirateat40 and make 2.5 btc per day?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
I need this loan because someone owes me some money but I want to earn interest on it in pirate's program. Smiley

wuh?

Basically, someone owes me around $1k, and I will repay you when I get paid the $1k (within the next month).  In the meantime, I will be earning some interest in pirate's lending program to "hedge" against BTC price growth (well, it's not the most direct hedge, but whatever), and will pay you part of that interest (about half).
sr. member
Activity: 396
Merit: 250
Send correspondance to GPG key A372E7C6
I need this loan because someone owes me some money but I want to earn interest on it in pirate's program. Smiley

wuh?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
Hi everyone, I need a 250 BTC loan.  I will pay you 1.5 BTC a day in interest I will pay 0.5% interest daily, compounded, but I will pay the entire sum I owe you back to you within a month of when you make the loan (meaning that you don't get the interest until I pay it to you, and I will pay the interest together with the principal).
I haven't done many deals in the past, but I have handled sums of money as large as 200-300 BTC before on Bitcoinduit when I was running it (from October to mid-November) and have never stolen any (just ask any of my happy players who have always gotten paid instantly Smiley ).  Also, pirateat40 can vouch for my integrity (I bought BTC from him, Paypal froze my account based on BS, and I returned the BTC when he requested it).
Pay here: 17RiZ1eaAB9e29kuTxTh8UdPyWSiisAyaZ

I need this loan because someone owes me some money but I want to earn interest on it in pirate's program. Smiley
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