Topic: Closing a futures position at 70700 ADA on margin balance and getting 52000! (Read 274 times)

I know. It's just that it happened with Binance, I'm no longer using Binance. That's a personal choice of course, others are welcome to trade there as much as they want. That being said that was my last trade and I think will be my last trade with leverage for years to come if not ever.



In fact if you look closely it states : "Average price". so in fact some of them were higher and some of them were lower than 0.14111

Liquidity comes with volume. Same order made on kucoin will do 5x more damage and on crypto.com 10x pushing you into even bigger losses.


Oh. I missed that. Sorry. But ... if your order crashed market it should not look like that:



Single trade. It should be multiple transactions with lower and lower price eating big after bid.

Hmm looks like you sold on 0.14111 but price dumped to 0.136 triggering other traders stop losses. You lost but also made other loss even more. The only person that you profit from "make a donation" button is the one who  is placing bid order so low that it is filled once per weeks.

Well, the market order thing could work very well if the liquidity is high on something. Try to do that market order on a regular btc/usdt trade, not a margin, not leverage, just plain old give usdt to get btc or give btc to get usdt regular trading, and you will realize that market order of this magnitude will not make a difference at all, it would not make any change at all, it would basically be moving veeeeery tiny that it wouldn't even be seen, hell during the same time people would make trades as well that would make your change go reverse very quickly as well.

However what you did was market order on a very liquidating problem coin with a high leverage, so there was really not that many people to eat up your order, which caused it to drop very significantly.

No in fact they said it's because of low liquidity. It's not network latency, it's BECAUSE of my trade order, the market crashed.
Anyway, I agree with you, properly speaking, it's the safest place to buy and even to trade I think. Someone should just beware of only making a limit order, and I did not know that when you have a long order fulfilled you can make a limit sell order out of it.

Nevertheless, that being said, even if it's not their fault in the strictest sense of the term, they're also responsible for the presentation they make of their platform. That "market" button sometimes means "make a transfer" or "make a donation". It is not supposed to be such an expensive lesson for anyone.

But as far as I'm concerned, lots of other exchanges are also safe with low fees. I am already very happy with 2 of them (crypto.com and Kucoin)

Did you try to blame binance for network latency bug (you did not see price crash while performing trade because of delay caused by spam of trades)?


I think that there is no better alternative. Binance is the safest, cheapest place to trade.


There are hundreds of trading bots made by hundreds of traders using dozens of strategies. Anything can happen in orderbook. It could be spoofing orders, one trader algo bug, or anything else.

At least we are clear that it's not the exchange site's fault. In a way, the smaller the difference between the current price and the opening position price that you have, the better the market orders that will come through.

This could serve as a lesson for you that you shouldn't act on it like you are gambling. Like a small change in price will immediately ”serve as profit” 

Usually promotions like that require KYC, a minimum trade, possible referral, I don't know, but I don't think they will be running with your money though. Just a portion, LOL.

It is sad that you feel that, but knowing that you admit that it was your fault and still blaming the exchange because of the lack of knowledge about trading, it says otherwise.

I agree, but the latest sell order on their book was more than 0.143. It is my market order that triggered that market crash. You are right about the limit position, and I did not know that, maybe next time (if ever).

So ok, now you could argue it was my mistake, and I agree. But I can't think of this "market" button anything else than a money transfer button disguised as "market order".

Have you seen the chart? If liquidity can disappear and reappear just because YOU are making an order, it's a more complicated way of saying somebody is stealing some money. You CAN NEVER VERIFY the liquidity of a market. All the orders you see will just disappear because you made a "market" order and reappear afterwards (and nobody knows who owns the bots on the other side). Plus they had a 100,000 dollars giveaway for first COIN futures traders in ADA (which was my case), and I did not receive a single dollar from that. But who knows? Maybe that liquidity just disappeared one microsecond before the promotion was closed lol.

That being said, I withdrew all of my money from that website, and had not used it since and will not use it again. Not that I think, as of today, it is still a very trustworthy website for those who only want to buy crypto, with a good fee. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm over with Binance. I think they should at least refund something.

But no problem, if this thread could be a warning for a single person who might fall in this trap, I would be happy.

You are quite contradicting yourself there. Check the bolded area.


Your opening position of long is 0.14240 and closed at 0.14111. Definitely, you closed a losing position there.

Upon reading more of your post, you said here.

More than 0.143? What is it really?

If you pushed the market sell mode, it's going to check on what the latest sell order on their book, and that's where they will send your order through. If I were you, you should've just limit ordered your position to make sure that you are in your profit.

with futures contract , you will have to pay a lot of fees. For exchanges, when you execute a contract, you lose a large fee, the larger the order, the higher the fee.
In addition, when you arbitrarily close the contract when the price goes against what you think you will lose money due to the volatility, in addition to the priority option fee to terminate the contract. That is all fees and losses incurred on your account.

I got their answer. They said there was not much liquidity, and no refund. Ok, it's their decision. But at least, in my opinion, for that "trade" button, there should be some kind of warning sometimes, or perhaps they could replace the button "trade" by "make a donation".

And there is also something weird I noticed when I first made the limit long order. At the exact same time (like in 0 microseconds) I made my long order, I see appear, right behind my order, about 5 orders, of the EXACT SAME amount of my order, but each one a cent cheaper one after the other. As my order was being filled and amount diminished, those orders' volumes continued to be the exact same volume of my order. Can somebody explain this phenom?

Supposedly, it was not a thing to happen at your ends, you make it before the lags happen and that was surprising how it changed. Should they have to refund it if you can show some proof to them, maybe your trading history will be enough to recon it? Because it was not your fault and the fees couldn't be a reason or you have mistakenly hit the button but that was their system failure.

Your best option, for now, is to wait for their reply, it for sure they will turn back your money if they'll find it wrong.
TBH, there is too much risk when we keep our money in exchangers.

That's a possibility. It would be a sucker thing. It's like money transfer. But as I already said, if liquidity can disappear and reappear like that in a microsecond, it would be impossible for anybody to verify liquidity. It just disappears when you want to make the trade and leaves your money for the exchange, and then reappears immediately after for other suckers. It's quite laughable.

There was possibly the reason out there already, it was figured out. Your sell was so big in the ADA margin trading world that you yourself alone just managed to crash it for a second all by yourself.

Obviously it recovered but the liquidity was low and that is why it went down super fast which caused you to drop in profit. Do not forget, when you make your calculations you make it on the price that you want to get out of, not the market price, when you get out with the market price however you end up with lowering and lowering your entry point until you are totally out but that could mean that you would lower yourself into a loss as well.

There was a ton of examples with ETH for example when it flashed crashed to cents and jumped right back up because of arbitrage as well.

Probably why not explain better using some pictures, screenshot everything from when you get in the trade and at the recent issue that has taken place now.

Your image link is not correct I will advice if you want to post up images on bitcointalk.org,take your time on the platform you will understand.  visit: Imgur here! and create an account for your self

To be honest, I think a lot of ADA, and I also hold the position. I think there will be better times for this coin. Hopefully)

If someone market sell few k Cont and eat all order book, trigger stop-loses and over leveraged trades than there is no liquidity short after that (the volume is adequate for this scenario). It appears back seconds after because of arbitrage trading bots, spread/slippage trading bots and others. Possible but it is like u said - very low chance that it happened just before your trade and You didn't see it due to UI lag.

If binance will not take responsibility for this trade (matching engine bug) than try to get something blaming them for p.2 (interface lag bug).

BTW mobile or web client?

There's no other way to clear this things up, only binance can answer this as Clear as you want, if there's error or there are explanations
why instead you earned from your margin place, you lose instead.

Until then, we will be able to understand how things happened from that margin trade that you made, hopefully they'll give a concrete answer

that will make things clear and precise, hope for the best and you get this things straight.

1-Sure hell I did. And by the way, I've never been intoxicated or drunk in my entire life.
2-What is the probability of that happening? Like one in a million?
3-Yes, that's why I go on Binance. Maybe they can do it for some people from time to time. It doesn't have to be that obvious.

There is also something you mentioned about market liquidity. I know what you mean. But how did that liquidity appear just after my trade in a microsecond for the price to go back where it was? If liquidity can appear and disappear in a microsecond upon clicking on that closing trade button, there is no way of verifying liquidity. You just click and hope for the best lol.

I see 3 options:

1- you did not check price at the moment of selling (you check if few sec earlier before flash crash) - bad luck
2- network latency bug (you did not see price crash while performing trade because of delay caused by spam of trades) - super bad luck
3- front running - popular strategy in not honest exchanges (even brokers on regulated market). Simply exchange seeing big order coming to orderbook calculate if it is worth to dump price using their coins and create buy order that will be filled with your order (all is done faster than a blink). 0 risk cheat strategy for exchanges. But to be honest i doubt that the biggest, the most trustful, the most influential exchange with more than 1B $ annual profit will try such thing.

Thank you guys, I will wait for their reply. My margin was 20x, that's 19000 ADA less  which is almost 2.7k$.
Tytanowy Janusz, you understand exactly what happened. But honestly, that's like the crash was triggered by my sell order. With this system, anybody can tell you oh it's a flash crash that nobody can even see it and steal all your money. Was it really that if I long and I'm right I loose, and if I long and I'm wrong I also lose? Really?

Although guys I will be informing you of what Binance final decision will be, but as far as I'm concerned, I sold that position with a margin of 20x, an entry price of 0.14240 and a closing price of more than 0.143.

Until then I completely stopped trading on that platform.

It is not questionable and OP does not question this. He questions the fact that at the moment he pushes market sell button price that was on his screen was 0.143 and account balance was 18k ADA higher (~2k$).

@OP you can try to get refund by blaming network latency (the case that you did not see current price due to lag caused by flash crash). I doubt you will get full refund but 100$-500$ is always better than nothing.

I've never seen an error yet at Binance margins, it can be confusing but you can always test things out at a very small value and see that calculations are correct.

Anyway, if it's true that you bought (long)  at 0.142x and sold (closed) at 1.411 then you definitely lost money and how much depends on your margin.

As you already contacted support get the full technical details of the trade from backend. Maybe you put in a wrong manual figure? Or as Ty shows above, the flash crash killed you

I see that we had a flash crash here with 5% amplitude from 0.143 to 0.136. It happened exactly on 18:51 8/8/2020 right when your sell order was. Maybe in fact you market sell in the moment of extreme low liquidity.

I did open a ticket support, they're checking this through. Weired situation. And by the way the chart of the support team confirms my claim that that price was 0.143 at the time of the selling, and not 0.14111 the price I had at closing. But they say "since I made a market order I ended up with a loss". As if I had a dedicated price different than that of the market.
Yes I long.
Here's the link for the image: https://imgur.com/a/mIij9sc

Please note that times are in CET. Anybody can verify that at the time of selling price was never to be at 0.14111, within that whole minute.

Open ticket with binance support. They are quite fast with responses.

Trying to answer your quesiton. I'm not sure if you longed. Maybe photo will help us to help you (Host your images on https://imgur.com/).

We are talking about this trading pair?
https://www.binance.com/en/delivery/adausd_quarter

I can see the image was not uploaded properly.
Well, I will write it here:
-I bought into the market in long position at the price of 0.14240 for ADA. I had exactly 64452.71 ADA.
-The current positions tab indicated clearly that I bought into the market at price 0.14240.
-I close my position at 12h:51 eastern time.
-Anybody can verify the price of ADA at that time. it was well beyond 0.143 during the entire time of that minute.
-And, the price of my closing position was 0.14111.
-So in fact I have longed ADA, the price went up, and I ended up loosing about 25% of my money at closing my position.

It was open for about an hour or 2, my leverage was 20x.
trading fees are very low (o.o4%).

Here's a screenshot of my trading history, I hope you can see it. If somebody was to verify the price of ADA at the exact same time of closing, it was not 0.14111. My margin balance, at the exact same time of the closing of that position was 70700 ADA, and I end up with 52000!

How long was you position open?
What was your leverage?

I am not familiar with Binance Future trading platform but there a few factors you should look at such as the funding rate and the trading fees. It would be easier to determine what happened if we were looking at the trading logs/trading history.

Hello guys,
Donno if anybody could have an explanation. It's pretty frustrating, I longed ADA in Binance futures, had an unrealized ETN of about 6400 ADA and an initial balance of 63000 ADA. I decided to close my position, and, surprise, here is my balance at 52000 ADA!! How could such a thing happen? Am sur that at the exact moment I closed that position my margin balance was 70700 ADA.
That was on COIN futures.