600 Ft? someone pen those details.... 6ft0 maybe.
on that id ninja site it is in feet
ok it doesn't help anything i know
Topic: CoinReturn - Discussion of Current Issues and Possible Future Actions (Read 6188 times)
July 26, 2014, 04:36:23 PM
July 16, 2014, 03:14:01 PM
Hmm... Looks familiar. Is this the same guy or just another scam artist ABT - Arbitrage https://cryptostocks.com/securities/41
Why do you think it may be the same guy? I see no names in that page.(Arbitrage is a favorite activity for scam companies - it looks very profitableand easy to people who have not tried it. Like the Soccer World Cup: it is easy to be the champion, one has only to kick the ball into the goal a few times.)
(And any company whose announcement does not incldue the true full names and addresses of the top management can safely be assumed to be a scam.)
July 16, 2014, 03:07:46 PM
This is just a wild theory that could or could not be true but sometimes I like to daydream lol
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
Your wild speculations are not helping, please only post useful information or suggestions. Thanks.
July 16, 2014, 02:57:29 PM
Hmm... Looks familiar. Is this the same guy or just another scam artist ABT - Arbitrage https://cryptostocks.com/securities/41
July 16, 2014, 01:42:50 PM
This is just a wild theory that could or could not be true but sometimes I like to daydream lol
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
Why go through the trouble? I can photoshop something of that quality in ~25mins. I could even print it out on some gloss stock, cut it out with an xacto and take a picture of it with a shitty cell. And if it's to be printed out in grayscale and *then* photographed/scanned, I can cut the time by a few mins
July 16, 2014, 10:44:19 AM
This is just a wild theory that could or could not be true but sometimes I like to daydream lol
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
SamboNZ is in fact the owner of coinreturn, his tactic of keeping the I.D. to himself was a way to buy time and try to erase his digital foot print. It seems that the time he started this thread till the time he posted toms I.D. does seem like the time period it would take to have a fake I.D. made and sent to himself.
July 16, 2014, 12:44:07 AM
Now that we know that the "Thomas Mica ID " is fake, the only chance we probably have to id the promoters of CoinReturn is to have the domain owners privacy protection lifted. To do this, one would normally need something like a police report, which could be obtained with someone filing a fraud case with the police and obtaining a report of the filling to send to the registrar of the domain. or more expensively getting a lawyer to get a court ruling that can be sent to the registrar to lift the privacy protection. The registrar for the domain coinreturn.me is PublicDomainregisty.com. Their contact would be [email protected].
I am still a bit dumbfounded to find that SamboNz would accept the ID posted and announce tha he has seen Tom Mica's ID, when most of the info that can confirm his ID is redacted and the only one visible, his home address, can be easily checked with a reverse address search on whitepages.com, which indicates the house is occupied by a different person (a couple in this case). I believe a cautioned statement that some parts of the ID was redacted would have been appropriate, so others without access to the ID don't think the promoters had nothing to hide and were willing to give identifiable info to a trusted member.
So anybody actually considering filing a fraud report against this worthless schmuck? I am still a bit dumbfounded to find that SamboNz would accept the ID posted and announce tha he has seen Tom Mica's ID, when most of the info that can confirm his ID is redacted and the only one visible, his home address, can be easily checked with a reverse address search on whitepages.com, which indicates the house is occupied by a different person (a couple in this case). I believe a cautioned statement that some parts of the ID was redacted would have been appropriate, so others without access to the ID don't think the promoters had nothing to hide and were willing to give identifiable info to a trusted member.
July 15, 2014, 10:39:27 AM
Now that we know that the "Thomas Mica ID " is fake, the only chance we probably have to id the promoters of CoinReturn is to have the domain owners privacy protection lifted. To do this, one would normally need something like a police report, which could be obtained with someone filing a fraud case with the police and obtaining a report of the filling to send to the registrar of the domain. or more expensively getting a lawyer to get a court ruling that can be sent to the registrar to lift the privacy protection. The registrar for the domain coinreturn.me is PublicDomainregisty.com. Their contact would be [email protected].
I am still a bit dumbfounded to find that SamboNz would accept the ID posted and announce tha he has seen Tom Mica's ID, when most of the info that can confirm his ID is redacted and the only one visible, his home address, can be easily checked with a reverse address search on whitepages.com, which indicates the house is occupied by a different person (a couple in this case). I believe a cautioned statement that some parts of the ID was redacted would have been appropriate, so others without access to the ID don't think the promoters had nothing to hide and were willing to give identifiable info to a trusted member.
I am still a bit dumbfounded to find that SamboNz would accept the ID posted and announce tha he has seen Tom Mica's ID, when most of the info that can confirm his ID is redacted and the only one visible, his home address, can be easily checked with a reverse address search on whitepages.com, which indicates the house is occupied by a different person (a couple in this case). I believe a cautioned statement that some parts of the ID was redacted would have been appropriate, so others without access to the ID don't think the promoters had nothing to hide and were willing to give identifiable info to a trusted member.
July 15, 2014, 09:32:47 AM
Give me a sec I will run it to see if its a real I.D.
Edit: Its a fake, no one by that name lives in R.I.
Edit: Its a fake, no one by that name lives in R.I.
July 15, 2014, 02:29:20 AM
July 10, 2014, 02:09:17 PM
Definitely looks like this one can be put to bed, finally. On the bright side, guess it's better for us early adopters and true believers to take the brunt of these scams and get most of them flushed out before mainstreet arrives and gets turned off.
July 10, 2014, 07:03:32 AM
SamboNZ,
now you understand, why web apps like BTC-jam take only picture of your ID together with your face + government proof of residence.
Even then, when I have their personal data information: in our country a person can announce personal bankrupt (there are legal procedural ofc) and totally legally reject all claims for loan payments. If his company borrowed the money, bankruptcy and/or insolvent procedures are possible. My point: sometimes even hard evidenced personal info don't help you resolve the loan payment.
To Thomas and co.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEjUQ15lyzk
now you understand, why web apps like BTC-jam take only picture of your ID together with your face + government proof of residence.
Even then, when I have their personal data information: in our country a person can announce personal bankrupt (there are legal procedural ofc) and totally legally reject all claims for loan payments. If his company borrowed the money, bankruptcy and/or insolvent procedures are possible. My point: sometimes even hard evidenced personal info don't help you resolve the loan payment.
To Thomas and co.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEjUQ15lyzk
July 10, 2014, 06:36:05 AM
Sigh, this seems to be developing like all the other bitcoin scams (the count must be in the hundreds already).
People who are afraid of the SEC are most likely scammers.
When you realize that someone has been lying to you, you should not believe anything he says or writes. In fact you should stop interacting with him, it is a waste of time. If he got your money and is giving excuses for not delivering the counterpart, you should take legal action, which depends on your country -- small-claims court, police, lawyer, etc..
Scammers are expert in stalling. They will sound honest and forthcoming, give you bogus evidence, place the blame on events that you cannot check, and so on.
A scammer could easily obtain a fake ID, but he would be reluctant to do so since that would be another serious crime, independent from the original scam.
People who are afraid of the SEC are most likely scammers.
When you realize that someone has been lying to you, you should not believe anything he says or writes. In fact you should stop interacting with him, it is a waste of time. If he got your money and is giving excuses for not delivering the counterpart, you should take legal action, which depends on your country -- small-claims court, police, lawyer, etc..
Scammers are expert in stalling. They will sound honest and forthcoming, give you bogus evidence, place the blame on events that you cannot check, and so on.
A scammer could easily obtain a fake ID, but he would be reluctant to do so since that would be another serious crime, independent from the original scam.
July 10, 2014, 06:14:48 AM
So I heard back from the PI today:
So, that pretty much clinches it then; this license is a fake and is proof that this was a scam from the start.
For what it's worth, I have posted a copy of the license below. I apologize for the poor quality of the image. When I originally negotiated with 'Tom' for him to reveal some form of official ID to me. He was extremely reluctant to do so (sighting fears that the SEC could somehow get hold of it - however remote the chance), so as part of the concessions on my part, I told him that he could obfuscate any detail he liked other than his name and address and that I would securely delete the file after I had viewed it - which I did. However, before I deleted it I printed it off on a laser printer (in hindsight I should have printed it on a higher quality printer, however, I was not expecting any issues and only printed it off as a 'just in case'). The image you have is a scan of the B&W laser print of the photo that Tom sent me of his DL - hence the quality issues.
So I am going to call the PI in the next couple of days to discuss the whole situation and get his views on what we can do from here, but TBH, I think they've got away with it clean. I still have a couple of minor leads to chase up, but I don't hold much hope of those getting me anywhere.
To 'Tom' & 'Jeff' et al:
I know you will be reading this, hoping that I haven't stumbled on some crucial piece of information which may reveal who you really are. I'll give you this much; you ran a very believable operation and convinced a lot of people that you were legit, however, while you've got away with this scam, criminals like you tend to have very nervous dispositions, sleep with one eye open and feel the need to constantly look over their shoulder. It saddens me that you feel the need to put your hand to such low down schemes such as this in order to feel 'successful'. Unfortunately, the only thing you succeeded in achieving is to steal the hard-earned money of your honest shareholders, who's worst crime was taking you at your word.
I challenge you to get up right now, go stand in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eye and ask yourself if you're ok with what you've done. Ask yourself if you really want to be the kind of man who takes advantage of others, who lies, steals and steps on other people for his own gain. If your answer is 'no', then it's never too late to make amends, but if your answer is 'yes', then I truly fear for your future, because the road you are on only leads to one destination; destruction. When you finally find yourself facing the consequences of your actions, maybe not any time soon, but trust me, you will face them, think back to my words and my warning and lament that you didn't change your path then, back when you had a choice.
And beware; because karma's a bitch!
Quote
Hello Sam,
The DMV has nothing at all on this person by name, not a single trace of a record whatsoever. The license photo you sent looks real to me, but it may be fake?
I spoke to someone in enforcement at the DMV and the only thing they could do is "take it from there" if I bring a copy of this to them. We will not hear anything and by my experience there is likely very little they will do.
This guy is a ghost...but the license looks real......
Let me know what you would like to do next. I am willing to bet that a visit to that address results in nobody knowing this guy, but that would seem like the next logical step.
The DMV has nothing at all on this person by name, not a single trace of a record whatsoever. The license photo you sent looks real to me, but it may be fake?
I spoke to someone in enforcement at the DMV and the only thing they could do is "take it from there" if I bring a copy of this to them. We will not hear anything and by my experience there is likely very little they will do.
This guy is a ghost...but the license looks real......
Let me know what you would like to do next. I am willing to bet that a visit to that address results in nobody knowing this guy, but that would seem like the next logical step.
So, that pretty much clinches it then; this license is a fake and is proof that this was a scam from the start.
For what it's worth, I have posted a copy of the license below. I apologize for the poor quality of the image. When I originally negotiated with 'Tom' for him to reveal some form of official ID to me. He was extremely reluctant to do so (sighting fears that the SEC could somehow get hold of it - however remote the chance), so as part of the concessions on my part, I told him that he could obfuscate any detail he liked other than his name and address and that I would securely delete the file after I had viewed it - which I did. However, before I deleted it I printed it off on a laser printer (in hindsight I should have printed it on a higher quality printer, however, I was not expecting any issues and only printed it off as a 'just in case'). The image you have is a scan of the B&W laser print of the photo that Tom sent me of his DL - hence the quality issues.
So I am going to call the PI in the next couple of days to discuss the whole situation and get his views on what we can do from here, but TBH, I think they've got away with it clean. I still have a couple of minor leads to chase up, but I don't hold much hope of those getting me anywhere.
To 'Tom' & 'Jeff' et al:
I know you will be reading this, hoping that I haven't stumbled on some crucial piece of information which may reveal who you really are. I'll give you this much; you ran a very believable operation and convinced a lot of people that you were legit, however, while you've got away with this scam, criminals like you tend to have very nervous dispositions, sleep with one eye open and feel the need to constantly look over their shoulder. It saddens me that you feel the need to put your hand to such low down schemes such as this in order to feel 'successful'. Unfortunately, the only thing you succeeded in achieving is to steal the hard-earned money of your honest shareholders, who's worst crime was taking you at your word.
I challenge you to get up right now, go stand in front of a mirror, look yourself in the eye and ask yourself if you're ok with what you've done. Ask yourself if you really want to be the kind of man who takes advantage of others, who lies, steals and steps on other people for his own gain. If your answer is 'no', then it's never too late to make amends, but if your answer is 'yes', then I truly fear for your future, because the road you are on only leads to one destination; destruction. When you finally find yourself facing the consequences of your actions, maybe not any time soon, but trust me, you will face them, think back to my words and my warning and lament that you didn't change your path then, back when you had a choice.
And beware; because karma's a bitch!
July 07, 2014, 08:20:45 PM
Ok, heard back from PI; it appears that he has a specific contact that he deals with at the DMV, who may be on leave at present. He will give it another day and then try someone else.
July 07, 2014, 04:31:06 PM
No update from the PI today. I have emailed to confirm.
July 07, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
It's beginning to look ....
I think thats the final puzzle in their game.
1. ipo shares every second day and paying a third of it in dividends for two months. ---> typical ponzi stated from johny08 in april
2. after that, they sold a bunch of shares for 100 btc and a month later they left. People were buying like crazy, what was not looking trustworth...
July 06, 2014, 01:08:28 PM
It's beginning to look like a back bencher case of the Usual Suspects. Not a whole lot of coinage at stake here but perhaps they timed this thing right up until the next bull run so they can have a stake to cash out. 
July 05, 2014, 08:08:36 PM
Well, that's what he told me. Maybe this is due to the holiday weekend as Chef Ramsay suggested?
July 05, 2014, 07:21:06 PM
It does not have to be a workday to get a DMV check. I can get one 24hrs a day.
July 05, 2014, 10:17:24 AM
Got another reply back from the PI regarding timing for the information regarding the license; "should be Monday".
He also sent the following:
So not a particularly good sign, but we'll see what comes back from the DMV.
He also sent the following:
Quote
I did some research through the databases we use that contain personal identifiers, address, and lots of other information on people here. Nothing comes up on him with that birth date and nothing on his name in this state at all. This is quite unusual for a 29-year-old guy and indicates he his not living a middle class lifestyle with credit cards, etc...
A search of database records on this address revealed no ties to a Thomas Mica.
No criminal records were found in the state on anyone named Thomas Mica.
No corporations or other business entities connected to his name in this state.
I did some extensive searching on the Internet I am finding nothing at all pertaining to a Thomas Mica in this region of the country.
A search of database records on this address revealed no ties to a Thomas Mica.
No criminal records were found in the state on anyone named Thomas Mica.
No corporations or other business entities connected to his name in this state.
I did some extensive searching on the Internet I am finding nothing at all pertaining to a Thomas Mica in this region of the country.
So not a particularly good sign, but we'll see what comes back from the DMV.
July 05, 2014, 10:00:43 AM
It is a holiday weekend so I don't imagine the DMV will open until Monday at least. Yes, I'm stating the obvious. 
July 04, 2014, 10:26:35 PM
I just received a reply from the PI I sent the license information to. He has sent the information to the DMV and expects to receive a reply 'next week'. I have asked him if it is possible for him to give me a more specific timeframe and I will report back when he replies.
July 03, 2014, 03:19:16 PM
Just rang the PI - No answer. Left a voicemail for him to contact me.
July 03, 2014, 07:53:21 AM
Thanks StakeHunter, I appreciate the feedback. Hopefully we can get some confirmation on the ID soon!!
July 03, 2014, 07:51:01 AM
I for one did not sell at a loss and still hold all my shares. So I am very interested as to your progress.
Any information is better than none. And I support your methods.
Any information is better than none. And I support your methods.
July 03, 2014, 01:51:57 AM
Unfortunately the PI hasn't returned my emails since my last post here, which is odd, because previously he was very responsive. I will try to get hold of him by phone tomorrow morning my time (+12hrs from now). Unfortunately the timezone difference between me and him means that there is only 2-3hrs of overlap when I can ring him during business hours.
If this PI doesn't respond soon, I'll fall back to the other one I checked out earlier. He's more expensive, but hopefully also more responsive!
If this PI doesn't respond soon, I'll fall back to the other one I checked out earlier. He's more expensive, but hopefully also more responsive!
July 02, 2014, 08:35:15 PM
Just a quick update on progress (or more accurately; lack thereof unfortunately).
Tom's ID Verification
I am waiting to hear back from one of the parties who can provide this service, and then I can make a decision on the best option moving forward. Regardless, I will make a decision tomorrow night (my time; 24hrs from now) and then get this moving. Once I give the go-ahead, we should hopefully get some results back fairly quickly (within 48hrs).
Domain Contact Information
The domain privacy company have now said that they require some kind of 'legal notification' before they will reveal any information, which is both disappointing, and contrary to what is written on their website. So unfortunately we'll have to put this on the back-burner for now.
I'll keep you posted on my progress (or further lack thereof!)
Tom's ID Verification
I am waiting to hear back from one of the parties who can provide this service, and then I can make a decision on the best option moving forward. Regardless, I will make a decision tomorrow night (my time; 24hrs from now) and then get this moving. Once I give the go-ahead, we should hopefully get some results back fairly quickly (within 48hrs).
Domain Contact Information
The domain privacy company have now said that they require some kind of 'legal notification' before they will reveal any information, which is both disappointing, and contrary to what is written on their website. So unfortunately we'll have to put this on the back-burner for now.
I'll keep you posted on my progress (or further lack thereof!)
So whats the update mate?
July 02, 2014, 05:22:29 AM
Thanks Deadwood, I pretty much agree with everything you're saying.
No contract was signed.
I'll definitely keep you posted on how things are going.
No contract was signed.
I'll definitely keep you posted on how things are going.
July 02, 2014, 02:36:48 AM
Here's my two cents:
1. Kudos with being responsible with the ID. A witch hunt is definitely something we don't need right now.
2. A PI is an infinitely better idea than just going over there yourself for reasons others have stated (mostly, a PI should know some of the laws about recording people or dealing with them in general. That's why they're PIs). I liked the flowers idea though.
3. This might still be a scam, long con, or whatever, but it is also likely that the guys had good intentions but at some point something happened - human error, computer crash, whatever - that lost them their bankroll and the easiest way out was to just up and quit. It's not like everyone who had $50 invested there will fly over and put pressure on the agencies that can shed light on this situation - and I frankly don't even know which they would be. The police? This isn't theft, it's closer to fraud, but did you guys sign a contract?
Anyway, I'm not trying to start a flame war about which laws this might fall under, I'm just saying it might be a bit difficult to solve in court.
However, good luck with the proceedings and do keep us posted. I am not against chipping in to hire a PI - though at this point this is just for closure for me.
Thank you!
1. Kudos with being responsible with the ID. A witch hunt is definitely something we don't need right now.
2. A PI is an infinitely better idea than just going over there yourself for reasons others have stated (mostly, a PI should know some of the laws about recording people or dealing with them in general. That's why they're PIs). I liked the flowers idea though.
3. This might still be a scam, long con, or whatever, but it is also likely that the guys had good intentions but at some point something happened - human error, computer crash, whatever - that lost them their bankroll and the easiest way out was to just up and quit. It's not like everyone who had $50 invested there will fly over and put pressure on the agencies that can shed light on this situation - and I frankly don't even know which they would be. The police? This isn't theft, it's closer to fraud, but did you guys sign a contract?
Anyway, I'm not trying to start a flame war about which laws this might fall under, I'm just saying it might be a bit difficult to solve in court.
However, good luck with the proceedings and do keep us posted. I am not against chipping in to hire a PI - though at this point this is just for closure for me.
Thank you!
July 01, 2014, 05:55:49 AM
I have decided that a Private Investigator located near the address on Tom's license is the best option for verifying his ID and have sent off the license details to him. Hopefully we will hear back from him soon.
June 30, 2014, 03:32:53 AM
Just a quick update on progress (or more accurately; lack thereof unfortunately).
Tom's ID Verification
I am waiting to hear back from one of the parties who can provide this service, and then I can make a decision on the best option moving forward. Regardless, I will make a decision tomorrow night (my time; 24hrs from now) and then get this moving. Once I give the go-ahead, we should hopefully get some results back fairly quickly (within 48hrs).
Domain Contact Information
The domain privacy company have now said that they require some kind of 'legal notification' before they will reveal any information, which is both disappointing, and contrary to what is written on their website. So unfortunately we'll have to put this on the back-burner for now.
I'll keep you posted on my progress (or further lack thereof!)
Tom's ID Verification
I am waiting to hear back from one of the parties who can provide this service, and then I can make a decision on the best option moving forward. Regardless, I will make a decision tomorrow night (my time; 24hrs from now) and then get this moving. Once I give the go-ahead, we should hopefully get some results back fairly quickly (within 48hrs).
Domain Contact Information
The domain privacy company have now said that they require some kind of 'legal notification' before they will reveal any information, which is both disappointing, and contrary to what is written on their website. So unfortunately we'll have to put this on the back-burner for now.
I'll keep you posted on my progress (or further lack thereof!)
June 29, 2014, 08:45:22 PM
If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.
Under either of the 2 scenarios (scam or SEC trouble) I highly doubt he would say anything in person or on camera if ya caught up w/ him. IMO, if it was SEC trouble then they should just pay the fine and refund us our money and then carry on their private trading outfit amongst themselves. How long do they think they're gonna lay low and avoid penalty if they're already on the radar? I bet this was all well and fine until they either got spooked or notified and then they just stopped the trading and won't resume or pay divs/refunds which would prove their involvement. So, they dipped on us and outside of siccing the authorities on them the show is over.Well, whatever the scenario, I want to give them a chance to explain and I think we need to at least try to get some kind of answer. Refusing to answer at all might actually still tell us something.
June 29, 2014, 08:43:14 PM
Check the state laws about recording people, some state allow it with out consent some do not.
Thanks. I imagine the PI would know this tho.
June 29, 2014, 12:38:28 PM
If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.
Under either of the 2 scenarios (scam or SEC trouble) I highly doubt he would say anything in person or on camera if ya caught up w/ him. IMO, if it was SEC trouble then they should just pay the fine and refund us our money and then carry on their private trading outfit amongst themselves. How long do they think they're gonna lay low and avoid penalty if they're already on the radar? I bet this was all well and fine until they either got spooked or notified and then they just stopped the trading and won't resume or pay divs/refunds which would prove their involvement. So, they dipped on us and outside of siccing the authorities on them the show is over. June 29, 2014, 06:54:20 AM
Check the state laws about recording people, some state allow it with out consent some do not.
June 29, 2014, 06:52:13 AM
If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.
Yes, I was thinking that would be a good idea.
June 29, 2014, 06:45:23 AM
If you do approach him, make sure u have a video camera recording of anything thing he says.
June 28, 2014, 01:09:51 AM
Instead of sending a PI to "gently" speak with him, you can send flowers to his home making a simple call to a delivery.
It's cheaper.
PD: Text for flowers card: "From your shareholders"
It's cheaper.
PD: Text for flowers card: "From your shareholders"
Or you can send him a dead fish. With text:"Caveo Cavi Cautum"
June 27, 2014, 05:39:06 PM
Ok, I am making progress on the License verification front, but nothing solid to report as yet.
I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried). However, I am persisting on this front for now.
I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives. I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel. The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable. A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.
I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on. I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this. I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total. If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it. I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.
What does everyone think about that idea?
I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried). However, I am persisting on this front for now.
I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives. I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel. The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable. A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.
I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on. I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this. I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total. If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it. I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.
What does everyone think about that idea?
Sorry, but I think if you have his first and last name, and the location where he lives, you do not need money.
Instead of sending a PI to "gently" speak with him, you can send flowers to his home making a simple call to a delivery.
It's cheaper.
PD: Text for flowers card: "From your shareholders"
June 27, 2014, 04:34:50 PM
I think you should just give me his first and last name the state he lives and I will give you a phone number so you do not have to pay 2-400$ for a house call.
Thanks for the offer, but based on your previous input on this and other matters I'm not sure I can trust you I'm afraid.
June 27, 2014, 12:36:21 PM
I think you should just give me his first and last name the state he lives and I will give you a phone number so you do not have to pay 2-400$ for a house call.
June 27, 2014, 07:04:25 AM
Ok, I am making progress on the License verification front, but nothing solid to report as yet.
I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried). However, I am persisting on this front for now.
I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives. I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel. The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable. A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.
I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on. I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this. I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total. If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it. I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.
What does everyone think about that idea?
I am having some trouble getting the domain privacy company to understand the current situation (the keep telling me to contact the domain owner via their form - which I have of course already tried). However, I am persisting on this front for now.
I have also been checking out some options for engaging a Private Investigator in the area where Tom's driver's license indicates he lives. I have found another PI who works only 20 min away from Tom's address and charges $80 per hour plus travel. The first PI lived an hour away and charges $100 ph with a minimum of 4 hours billable. A third PI has not returned either of the 2 emails I sent to them in the last week.
I am thinking that if the license is legit, we could contract a PI to pay Tom a visit and (gently) try to ascertain what's going on. I am hoping that a number of shareholders would be willing to chip in and help me pay for this. I imagine that it might take 2-3hrs for this initial work - so the cost would be $160-240 in total. If we could get 25 shareholders to put in $10 (~0.017 BTC @ $580/BTC) each, that would cover it. I would be happy to use some kind of Escrow if that's what everyone wanted.
What does everyone think about that idea?
June 27, 2014, 06:22:26 AM
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/coinreturn-265079
It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?
Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.
I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.
It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?
Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.
I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.
I have tried to get the BCT admins to reveal this kind of information, but they require a police request to do so. This may come into play later on.
Thanks for the kind words, and I too am hoping this isn't a scam - for everyone's sake!
June 27, 2014, 06:20:32 AM
Have you thought that maybe these guys are in Brazil for the FIFA World Cup.
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
Hahaha, brilliant!
Best reason ever!! June 26, 2014, 11:51:57 PM
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/coinreturn-265079
It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?
Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.
I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.
It seems like they have an alternative email address - maybe see if we can get bitcointalk to hand over the email address?
Also nice write up Sambo , I - like i'm sure many others have - lost many bitcoins to this , I dipped my tow in and liked the water so threw alot more into this stock.
I'm hoping it isn't a scam and something is stopping them communicating for now.
June 26, 2014, 10:02:32 PM
Have you thought that maybe these guys are in Brazil for the FIFA World Cup.
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
They stopped paying dividends the same day that World Cup began.
But, many people have undersold their shares so quickly...
June 26, 2014, 05:43:07 AM
Thanks for your comments Casco.
Yes, I think that we would definitely do better working together to learn about what is happening with CoinReturn. I have some ideas about how we can do this, but let's see what comes of my first round of inquiries and then we can work out the next step from there.
Yes, I think that we would definitely do better working together to learn about what is happening with CoinReturn. I have some ideas about how we can do this, but let's see what comes of my first round of inquiries and then we can work out the next step from there.
June 26, 2014, 04:46:08 AM
Sambo and all colleagues investors,
although I personally believe, that whole CoinReturn is a scam, I appreciate your work here. Please keep us updated in the future about the progress. Hope that all ends well and that at least some of our investment will be repaid.
Secondly, this situation(s) is (are) calling for some action - maybe we should form an Investor Coalition to resolve such plausible fraud cases. What do you think?
Casco
although I personally believe, that whole CoinReturn is a scam, I appreciate your work here. Please keep us updated in the future about the progress. Hope that all ends well and that at least some of our investment will be repaid.
Secondly, this situation(s) is (are) calling for some action - maybe we should form an Investor Coalition to resolve such plausible fraud cases. What do you think?
Casco
June 25, 2014, 04:42:49 PM
Thanks Sambo... Good writeup.
cheers mate, I appreciate the support
June 25, 2014, 04:42:27 PM
Sam, first off I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your thoughts and logic.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss. Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss. So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them.
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it. Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast. We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss. Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss. So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them.
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it. Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast. We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.
Thanks youlead. To be clear, the 2 week deadline was for taking further significant action, not necessarily to release the ID information I have. That is certainly an option down the track, but I think there are a number of possible avenues we could pursue before we get to that point.
June 25, 2014, 04:23:21 PM
Thanks Sambo... Good writeup.
June 25, 2014, 04:05:29 PM
Sam, first off I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your thoughts and logic.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss. Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss. So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them.
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it. Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast. We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.
At some point I believe most people like myself liquidated our stock at a loss. Our choice but at this point regardless of if it turned out to be a scam or not we still have the option to Buy And/Or sell at a loss. So the legal preceding of claiming this is a scam in my mind get sticky until CS actually decides to de-list them.
I personally applaud you for holding onto the ID information and not releasing it. Unfortunately that deadline you are setting for yourself is coming up fast. We could extend it or set it based off when CS puts a trading halt on the account.
June 25, 2014, 03:03:30 PM
Please note: This thread is for CoinReturn Shareholders to discuss the current situation and what to do about it. If you are not a CoinReturn shareholder, please be respectful and refrain from posting unless you have something of useful substance to add which may help the situation. Polite, constructive arguments, opinions and discussions are welcome, trolling, abuse, baseless accusations, personal attacks and general BS is not, and posts containing such will be deleted.
10 July 2014 Update:
I have confirmation from a PI in Rhode Island that there is no record of 'Tom Mica' in the DMV records and therefore the license is fake. This proves that CoinReturn was a fake from the beginning and all other theories are wrong. Therefore I have removed my own invalid theories from this post as not to cloud the issue.
I have a couple of minor leads to follow up on, but I don't hold much hope that they will lead anywhere. In any case, I'll keep you all posted on how I go.
Cheers,
Sam.
10 July 2014 Update:
I have confirmation from a PI in Rhode Island that there is no record of 'Tom Mica' in the DMV records and therefore the license is fake. This proves that CoinReturn was a fake from the beginning and all other theories are wrong. Therefore I have removed my own invalid theories from this post as not to cloud the issue.
I have a couple of minor leads to follow up on, but I don't hold much hope that they will lead anywhere. In any case, I'll keep you all posted on how I go.
Cheers,
Sam.
Jump to: