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ABCbits

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Quote from: PrivacyG on May 28, 2022, 07:44:42 AM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 26, 2022, 07:11:34 PM

You can use a microSD card with an adapter. Plug the microSD card using the adapter into your online computer, transfer the file on the microSD card and slide the adapter's lock/unlock switch down as you can see in the below image to make it read-only so the file can not be modified. Then you can connect it to your airgapped computer.

Or you can use a USB flash drive that has a read-only switch as well.

Remember not to do this with a locked microSD card adapter plugged inside a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 adapter that is then plugged into the PC. I have this adapter because my computer does not have a microSD adapter slot so I had to adapt. For some reason, my USB adapter cancels out the microSD lock and lets the card both read and write. I found out by trying to create a new file on the microSD, and it worked so the lock has been somehow canceled. Always test the card out beforehand.
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PrivacyG

Read-only switch on microSD adapter usually happen on software-level, so i can see why using USB adapter on top of it would cancel read-only mode. Alternatively, you could either use CD/DVD (if your device has CD/DVD reader) or manually mount your storage device as read-only.

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

That depends on your definition of "better"

Using cold storage will generally be more secure than storing your private keys on a computer that is connected to the internet. However, it will also be more difficult to spend your coin because you will be having to transfer transactions between your internet-connected computer and your cold-storage computer.

In general, I would advise to try to minimize the number of times you are accessing your cold storage wallet. Anytime you access your cold storage, you potentially expose yourself to physical attacks. Generally speaking, you may wish to keep modest amounts of coin on an internet-connected device that you may use for "everyday" type transactions, and only access your cold storage when you are wanting to make a larger purchase.

The above will depend on how much money is involved for each type of transaction, what you can afford to lose, and the value of your time.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 26, 2022, 07:11:34 PM

You can use a microSD card with an adapter. Plug the microSD card using the adapter into your online computer, transfer the file on the microSD card and slide the adapter's lock/unlock switch down as you can see in the below image to make it read-only so the file can not be modified. Then you can connect it to your airgapped computer.

Or you can use a USB flash drive that has a read-only switch as well.

Remember not to do this with a locked microSD card adapter plugged inside a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 adapter that is then plugged into the PC. I have this adapter because my computer does not have a microSD adapter slot so I had to adapt. For some reason, my USB adapter cancels out the microSD lock and lets the card both read and write. I found out by trying to create a new file on the microSD, and it worked so the lock has been somehow canceled. Always test the card out beforehand.
-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: dkbit98 on May 27, 2022, 11:38:56 AM

Obviously, for signing transaction and sending coins you would need to have other device that is connected to internet.

Exactly. But for nevrche not to get confused, it is still the watch-only wallet that is the online wallet. So far only master public key is imported into the online wallet, that makes it becomes a watch-only wallet. Watch-only wallet can not be used for spending unless a transaction it create is sent to its cold storage wallet for signing and send back the signed transaction to the watch-only for broadcast. While also watch-only can be used to be tracking transaction including newly received transactions without communicating with the cold storage. Cold storage is only used for signing which is very important for spending, without it, the coins can not be spent.

dkbit98

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

is it good idea to store my bitcoin on laptop that not connected to the internet except Bitcoin Core ? and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

Bitcoin Core wallet needs internet connection to sync and download blockchain, but you can use your laptop as offline storage for your bitcoin keys.
This is not working exactly like trezor, ledger and other hardware wallets, but it could be better if you know what you are doing and if you installed fresh linux os.
Just to make sure I would remove wifi card or click switch off button if your laptop have this option.
Obviously, for signing transaction and sending coins you would need to have other device that is connected to internet.

nevrche

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 26, 2022, 07:11:34 PM

Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 06:34:25 PM

this is real helpful but how i can install electrum in my airgapped device ? plug USB flash memory to the device to install the electrum ? if so thats not really an airgapped device anymore, im really newbie in cold storage thing sorry if i don't get it yet

You can use a microSD card with an adapter. Plug the microSD card using the adapter into your online computer, transfer the file on the microSD card and slide the adapter's lock/unlock switch down as you can see in the below image to make it read-only so the file can not be modified. Then you can connect it to your airgapped computer.

https://i.imgur.com/WCDLnTf.png
https://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1102/~/sd%2Fsdhc%2Fsdxc-memory-card-is-write-protected-or-locked

You can use CD. Copy the file to a CD from your online device and load the CD on your airgapped device.

Or you can use a USB flash drive that has a read-only switch as well.

Download Electrum from https://electrum.org and verify it signature for authenticity

Thank you a lot, this really helpful !

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 06:34:25 PM

this is real helpful but how i can install electrum in my airgapped device ? plug USB flash memory to the device to install the electrum ? if so thats not really an airgapped device anymore, im really newbie in cold storage thing sorry if i don't get it yet

You can use a microSD card with an adapter. Plug the microSD card using the adapter into your online computer, transfer the file on the microSD card and slide the adapter's lock/unlock switch down as you can see in the below image to make it read-only so the file can not be modified. Then you can connect it to your airgapped computer.

https://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1102/~/sd%2Fsdhc%2Fsdxc-memory-card-is-write-protected-or-locked

You can use CD. Copy the file to a CD from your online device and load the CD on your airgapped device.

Or you can use a USB flash drive that has a read-only switch as well.

Download Electrum from https://electrum.org and verify it signature for authenticity

nevrche

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 26, 2022, 05:57:16 PM

Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

is it good idea to store my bitcoin on laptop that not connected to the internet except Bitcoin Core ? and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

jackg and PrivacyG had given perfect replies. But make sure that if you want to setup an airgapped device, I will advice you to remove the wireless modules and install Linux OS like Ubuntu, making sure there is no means your hardware wallet can connect to the external environment.

You can use this guide to setup electrum cold storage but make sure the cold storage is perfectly airgapped.
https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

Quote from: jackg on May 26, 2022, 04:14:20 PM

Hardware wallets are different from cold wallets.

They interact with machines that themselves interact with the Internet so they're not airgapped - there is a chance a vulnerability could still affect the device.

If you're able to keep the laptop offline then that will be the most secure way to store your keys (ahead of hardware wallets).

Reputable hardware wallet's seed phrase and private key are offline, not online, that makes hardware wallet also to be cold wallet. The unamended known vulnerable that can affect hardware wallet is clipboard malware, but that is why it is good to check and recheck the address you paste before sending bitcoin to a recipient. Although, you are right that wallet on airgapped device can be more secure but user needs to also have experience in a way to avoid mistakes just like using other wallets. But I too will recommend wallet on airgapped device for bitcoin if properly setup.

this is real helpful but how i can install electrum in my airgapped device ? plug USB flash memory to the device to install the electrum ? if so thats not really an airgapped device anymore, im really newbie in cold storage thing sorry if i don't get it yet

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I think he means on the first question he talking about other wallets?
If I'm right then other wallets like Electrum can be used as a cold storage wallet with no internet or any online connection or without hardware wallets.

If you are going to spend BTC from your cold storage you will need to make a raw transaction from the watch-only wallet you can install Electrum in android and import your master public key or use coinb.in to make a raw transaction then sign it with your cold storage wallet then transfer it back to your watch-only wallet and then broadcast. It's simple as that.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

is it good idea to store my bitcoin on laptop that not connected to the internet except Bitcoin Core ? and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

jackg and PrivacyG had given perfect replies. But make sure that if you want to setup an airgapped device, I will advice you to remove the wireless modules and install Linux OS like Ubuntu, making sure there is no means your hardware wallet can connect to the external environment.

You can use this guide to setup electrum cold storage but make sure the cold storage is perfectly airgapped.
https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

Quote from: jackg on May 26, 2022, 04:14:20 PM

Hardware wallets are different from cold wallets.

They interact with machines that themselves interact with the Internet so they're not airgapped - there is a chance a vulnerability could still affect the device.

If you're able to keep the laptop offline then that will be the most secure way to store your keys (ahead of hardware wallets).

Reputable hardware wallet's seed phrase and private key are offline, not online, that makes hardware wallet also to be cold wallet. The unamended known vulnerable that can affect hardware wallet is clipboard malware, but that is why it is good to check and recheck the address you paste before sending bitcoin to a recipient. Although, you are right that wallet on airgapped device can be more secure but user needs to also have experience in a way to avoid mistakes just like using other wallets. But I too will recommend wallet on airgapped device for bitcoin if properly setup.

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

is it good idea to store my bitcoin on laptop that not connected to the internet except Bitcoin Core ?

Sorry for nitpicking, but your Bitcoins aren't stored in your laptop, not even in your Bitcoin core wallet. They are stored in the blockchain (in form of UTXOs). You only need to properly store your private keys/seeds/wallet files to keep your coins safe.

Quote

and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

You can use any reliable device that's never been and will never be connected to the Internet with a trusted and secure wallet software which supports cold storage such as Electrum.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: nevrche on May 26, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

Yes. Airgapping. Airgapping is one step extra from your main question. A laptop or a Personal Computer with no wireless connection and no Internet connection. In other words, a computer with zero communication with the outside world. My airgapped laptops have all wireless modules such as Bluetooth removed as well.

For long term storage, this is more recommended by me than a laptop with just Bitcoin Core and Internet connection on it. Since with an airgapped computer there is no communication with the external world, the numbers of potential attacks decrease significantly.

In case you are going to choose airgapping, I personally suggest you use Electrum instead of Bitcoin Core. I find it easier to use and you do not need the full blockchain downloaded anyway as your computer stays offline.

Since the computer is offline, once you have incoming or outgoing transactions you will have to move transaction and signed data in and out of it. To further protect the computer from threats, I also recommend you use Electrum in combination with a webcam so that you use QR codes rather than plugging in external devices such as USB keys.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Hardware wallets are different from cold wallets.

They interact with machines that themselves interact with the Internet so they're not airgapped - there is a chance a vulnerability could still affect the device.

If you're able to keep the laptop offline then that will be the most secure way to store your keys (ahead of hardware wallets).

What did you mean by the "except bitcoin core" if you need to use the Internet for anything you could face vulnerabilities (eg another machine masquerades as your router and installs and runs malware in the background in your machine you assumed was safe).

nevrche

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is it good idea to store my bitcoin on laptop that not connected to the internet except Bitcoin Core ? and is their any better idea then laptop thing except cold storage hardware like Trezor and Ledger Nano

Topic: cold storage (Read 290 times)