Topic: Communism vs capitalism: another divide & conquer strategy? (Read 96 times)

I didn't mean to make anyone feel inferior. I just want you to understand that the forces you & the community are experiencing lately have less to do with 'good & evil' & more to do with historical process & the psychological strain of superimposing upon money the value of material necessities as part of a long-term development project. These are historical & political forces roused in the cypher of Bitcoin. There is no metaphysical duality at play. Religion is a ponzi scheme

Alright. You are already sounding defeated with unnecessary emotions and vulgar. If I continue with you that will make me come down to this low level and make me feel inferior

Well Ucy both of those things seem like that to me. And the topic is not good vs evil, as I said I consider that stupid. I don't care about fairy stories & horror movies, I care about history lessons & relentless false narratives & the dualistic deception of communism vs capitalism as destroying the authentic socio-political tendencies of real human beings. It doesn't have to become an oversimplified theological debate. It is a serious issue.

The belief in evil & the existence of an almighty creator who created everything presumably including evil but who now wants to destroy evil is wrong headed to me. It is the kind of bullshit that kept medieval peasants in the dark & now neoconservative reactionary forces are trying to put the masses on the same footing using another, similar dualism. Breed communists to think of themselves as good and their capitalist enemies as evil & vice versa. It is almost so simple a formula as to be demeaning & commonly overlooked. But it occupies the educational space, it is doctrine, it pervades the daily life of dominant culture through the media & so while I respect your stance in terms of basically staying out of it & sticking to what works for you personally, eventually it will interfere with your life too.

What exactly is Jewish, childish and half baked? The belief in evil or the existence of a CREATOR?
I hope you stick to the topic.

All sounds a wee bit jewish to me Ucy I think it's childish & half baked. You see it states explicitly in the Abrahamic holy books time & again that the supreme deity is 'the truth' & that is about the only statement of fact around it I can identify. The almighty supreme agency is 'the truth' because anything opposed to the truth has to be by definition a falsehood, fabrication, delusion or lie. And however enjoyable that opposition to the truth may be, that lie, it will always get found out & discarded for something more useful, i.e. the truth. Truth is not a judge or a creator, though, these are merely the subjective experiences of those who have entertained lies with an unconscious awareness meanwhile of the overpowering presence of the truth, which is everywhere and cannot be contained or explained.

The difficulty with wanting to serve good & destroy evil is of course that you are probably going to be required to hurt & oppress others that you perceive to act on the behalf of this superstitious force. At which point their innocent loved ones may understandably declare you to be evil, & the vicious cycle continues

For the record I would only ever identify religiously as a Taoist, as to me that is the only form of religion which always bears in mind the ungraspable nature of the infinite.

There is nothing superstitious about the belief in the existence of evil (or bad). It's existence is a fact which is recognized by most people & can be seen in nature as a force that create problems and lowers the quality of existence. You remind me of my former life as an atheist trying to rationalize evil to make meaning out of things that are difficult to understand. I later realized my mistakes and things have been wonderful for me ever since.

There is a CREATOR whose purpose is to bring things into existence and keep them free of errors. The purpose in summary is to keep things very good and to destroy evil

What so you think that the world goes through stages of being good & evil? Sounds a bit superstitious to me Ucy. What if the idea of evil was only invented to give evil people an excuse for imposing themselves on those they had singled out as evil? What if they are scapegoating, creating fall-guys, abusing & undermining the force of law & order & carrying out unjust persecution against people they secretly hate on a prejudicial partisan basis so seek to stigmatise?

For my part I would argue that the false dichotomy of communism vs capitalism is evil, because (not without irony) of the falsification of the dualism. They are interdependent aspects of one complex whole & to convince the uninitiated that their apparent differences are down to separateness & conflict goes against the constructive scheme of things. I think most people think & act as individuals to transcend the irrational apathetic parts of themselves to try & keep up with the organic world around them. Not the decisions of other people, but the motions of the solar system & phenomena in the universe etc..

Lack of understanding of ideas could be part of the problem. Rigid people may mean no harm but are just being careful of what can cause them problems... They could try to resist what they do not understand as a defensive mechanism.
It's important to allow people find faults or issues with something you are offering them as solutions to their problems. Good solutions will be faultless or without issues and No good person will reject good/faultless solutions. if someone rejects good solution or calls it evil & the evil good, then you consider him/her as corrupt mind who should be avoided to prevent a situation where evil spreads and corrupt a healthy population.  People will likely surrender if they find no fault in an idea. If after finding no fault in the solution you are offering them and it's still rejected then you and others know who the problem is.

In regards to the language barrier,  I believe that is beneficial when the whole is becoming evil as it can slow the evil down & prevent the whole from getting quickly corrupted and destroy itself. So, preventing easy communication can be one of the ways to slow down the full corruption of the whole.

That makes a lot of sense to me. But I think it would have to be global in scope, like Bitcoin. It would also be something that is only now practical because of things like Bitcoin & the technology behind it, basically the internet & computers. The party is pooped when states impose on citizens & internet to curb the spread of information & communication, the sharing of ideas across the broadest spectrum of topics & communities, & this is usually done with some implicit or explicit reference to a polar opposite extremism, like defending against the capitalist opportunists or the rising threat of communism etc.. Really though, it is the same story everywhere. Authoritarian control of individual thought & expression, the containment of democracy. So if we could develop & somehow trickle down a narrative about how communism vs capitalism is a form of self harm & the electorate reject the antagonism as a false dichotomy, accepting only both or neither, might we diffuse some of this nasty cold-war stuff resurfacing of late?

What about a combination of both???

I'm not rigid when it comes to unproven ideologies or economic systems. My approach is to adopt or create solutions that is peculiar to my situation without bothering too much what others believe is true. My solution tends include parts of the different ideologies that are fair and reasonable that even the communist, capitalist or socialist, etc will hardly find fault in. I think holding strongly to a particular ideology without considering the good part of others is kind of extremism. I prefer to be open minded & only adopt what works for me without issues. Thanks too

That's I think where our difficulties begin & we can become confused about the situation we are in. Because as you say, on one level everyone inhabits one unified reality & at some point maybe in some quantum hyperspace everything is connected. At the same time though this could mean that, in a world where anything is possible, which is the kind of world we might be forgiven for looking for, one source of error might immediately become a general error that all experience & suffer for. So complete chaos or the whole 'lawless situation' might be paradoxically prevented by individualism or distinction. So there seem to be apparently inconsistent elements in play at the same time, so to speak. You could say that while every thing (two words) is different, everything (one word) is the same. And there are lots of mystic & theological schools of thought which deal with this sort of thing at length which I won't try go into here. But might we be making a grave mistake, or even being lead to make a grave mistake, in viewing that communism (collective belonging & identity) & that capitalism (personal distinction & individuality) as being irrevocably incompatible? Might they be like new names for old games?

Some people seem to take these things so seriously & give them such violent passion that it strikes me that something deeper is going on behind the rhetorical theory. To be at once a sovereign individual & a part of a shared identity is the basic situation human beings have always been in & the 'communism vs capitalism' mythic tragedy can be confusing & detrimental to that, especially for the young.

Glad to have connected with a Sr. member here though, thanks Ucy

In an ideal World where evil is non-existent, no one owns Anything but Everything is owned by all. You can live wherever you want, take whatever you need or eat whatever you find without wronging anyone... This can only be possible in a world where nothing good is scare, where our imagined needs (or our good wishes) are met in sub seconds, everything is good, no one can cross boundaries to wrong anyone/anything, understanding is abundant, everyone is happy, joy is constant and we exist as One

In such World, it will likely be impossible to feel separate from everyone else because they are Single Consciousness, have thesame mind and feelings.  Individualism could be more of a vice than a virtue. One of its few benefits could be to prevent the extinction of the whole in lawless situation.

Is the narrative of antagonism between historical political forces being honest?

It seems to me, that with the individualist & collectivist impulses understandably operating within us all, that the mythology of communism & capitalism being political ideologies battling it out on the world stage for the soul of humanity is actually a deception.

We all sometimes want to be part of a powerful tribe that distributes its resources fairly, don't we? And at others we all want to retain our private interests & the ability to 'change our mind' if we so choose. Spontaneity & autonomy, loyalty & belonging are all evocative ideals. Because there is a generality to our nature as humans, as well as a specificity to our personality as individuals.

We are all born with an impulse to respond to the needs of the collective, maybe because we understand ourselves to be a part of it. And we all strive to maintain our individualism even to the point of idiosyncrasy or 'going mad'.

So does the story we are told about the forces of communism & capitalism toppling nations & causing wars simply set out to divide us internally? Is it just an update of the old divide & conquer tactics of the ancient imperial mode?