Competition between AMD and Nvidia | Bitcointalksearch.org

FP91G

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Quote from: JayDDee on March 25, 2023, 12:16:10 PM

Quote from: FP91G on March 25, 2023, 06:43:00 AM

Nvidia wanted to make more money selling GPUs for mining, so they came up with the LHR version.

Nvidia didn't make money from LHR. They made money but not from LHR. LHR was mostly a marketing gimmick
to please gamers by pissing off miners during a period of high demand and short supply. The side effect is it made
AMD GPUs more attractive to miners. AMD made money from LHR.

Nvidia used LHR restrictions to sell limited warranty versions of "mining edition" graphics cards to miners. There were no LHR restrictions also for the A0000 series. Mining edition video cards are very difficult to sell on the secondary market, so miners preferred to buy regular video cards with a 3-year warranty.

JayDDee

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Quote from: adaseb on March 25, 2023, 01:25:52 PM

So the only reason LHR was implemented was to please those gamers. However as you can see it did nothing because miners still bought out every single GPU inside the store. I understand why they did it but it didn't really help. The GPUs were still hard to acquire during those months where ETH had crazy probability.

It was intended to distract from Nvidia's supply problems. Everyone was pissed already but gamers blamed miners and Nvidia caved.

adaseb

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Quote from: JayDDee on March 25, 2023, 12:16:10 PM

Quote from: FP91G on March 25, 2023, 06:43:00 AM

Nvidia wanted to make more money selling GPUs for mining, so they came up with the LHR version.

Nvidia didn't make money from LHR. They made money but not from LHR. LHR was mostly a marketing gimmick
to please gamers by pissing off miners during a period of high demand and short supply. The side effect is it made
AMD GPUs more attractive to miners. AMD made money from LHR.

The reason why they made LHR was because if you went to any gaming forums you would see that people were extremely pissed off how Nvidia GPUs became unobtainable and were pissed at all the people who were trying to flip them. You basically were screwed if you were a hardcore gamer. PC Gamers HATED miners for this. And they complained to Nvidia that they will abandon their loyality for AMD if they don't do something soon.

So the only reason LHR was implemented was to please those gamers. However as you can see it did nothing because miners still bought out every single GPU inside the store. I understand why they did it but it didn't really help. The GPUs were still hard to acquire during those months where ETH had crazy probability.

JayDDee

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Quote from: FP91G on March 25, 2023, 06:43:00 AM

Nvidia wanted to make more money selling GPUs for mining, so they came up with the LHR version.

Nvidia didn't make money from LHR. They made money but not from LHR. LHR was mostly a marketing gimmick
to please gamers by pissing off miners during a period of high demand and short supply. The side effect is it made
AMD GPUs more attractive to miners. AMD made money from LHR.

FP91G

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Quote from: JayDDee on March 24, 2023, 03:48:22 PM

Quote from: Lafu on March 24, 2023, 07:57:23 AM

Quote from: mindrust on March 23, 2023, 01:03:27 PM

AMD is a great company. They are the best at what they do and It is making CPU's. The computer I am using right now and my laptop have both AMD CPU's and they perform great. It is just, when it comes to buying a GPU, I prefer Nvidia over an AMD any day. Even at the same price range, if the Nvidia one performs worse than the AMD one, I will still go with the Nvidia GPU and it is because it simply has better support for everything out there.

I totaly agree with you on that and i have the same setup for my computer like an AMD CPU and Geforce GPU.
I switched to Nvidia in 2014 around and it was the best choice i ever done for GPU.
They Nivida cards are more user friendly in my opinion.

A love hate relationship with me. AMD has open source drivers and didn't screw miners with LHR, but CUDA is a better architecture
and the GPUs are faster more stable and trouble free. I started using Nvidia when I started mining with 750ti's in 2014.

Nvidia wanted to make more money selling GPUs for mining, so they came up with the LHR version. After the end of Ethereum mining, all locks were lifted. With the advent of the 1000 series, AMD began to lose in mining. I don't see any competition from AMD for the RTX 4070 graphics card.

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Quote from: Lafu on March 24, 2023, 07:57:23 AM

Quote from: mindrust on March 23, 2023, 01:03:27 PM

AMD is a great company. They are the best at what they do and It is making CPU's. The computer I am using right now and my laptop have both AMD CPU's and they perform great. It is just, when it comes to buying a GPU, I prefer Nvidia over an AMD any day. Even at the same price range, if the Nvidia one performs worse than the AMD one, I will still go with the Nvidia GPU and it is because it simply has better support for everything out there.

I totaly agree with you on that and i have the same setup for my computer like an AMD CPU and Geforce GPU.
I switched to Nvidia in 2014 around and it was the best choice i ever done for GPU.
They Nivida cards are more user friendly in my opinion.

A love hate relationship with me. AMD has open source drivers and didn't screw miners with LHR, but CUDA is a better architecture
and the GPUs are faster more stable and trouble free. I started using Nvidia when I started mining with 750ti's in 2014.

Lafu

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Quote from: mindrust on March 23, 2023, 01:03:27 PM

AMD is a great company. They are the best at what they do and It is making CPU's. The computer I am using right now and my laptop have both AMD CPU's and they perform great. It is just, when it comes to buying a GPU, I prefer Nvidia over an AMD any day. Even at the same price range, if the Nvidia one performs worse than the AMD one, I will still go with the Nvidia GPU and it is because it simply has better support for everything out there.

I totaly agree with you on that and i have the same setup for my computer like an AMD CPU and Geforce GPU.
I switched to Nvidia in 2014 around and it was the best choice i ever done for GPU.
They Nivida cards are more user friendly in my opinion.

Quote from: mindrust on March 23, 2023, 01:03:27 PM

Some damn video editing programs like davinci's resolve used to not work with the AMD brand GPU's. (they only fixed it recently a few months ago and it is still not complete) This was just one example and there are many like it.
When it comes to picking a GPU, the winner is clear: Nvidia.

Thanks for the Information about the AMD brand and davincis resolve problem as i am using it many times.
But i guess i will not pick up any AMD card in the next years.

FP91G

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Quote from: dansus021 on March 23, 2023, 07:32:45 AM

Quote from: FP91G on March 22, 2023, 05:06:33 AM

Most of the buyers of video cards are miners. If the payback of this video card decreases to 1 year, then it will be in good demand in the market. And if we see a payback of 6 months in mining, then gamers will not be able to buy this video card in stores and will again scold the miners.

Correct me if I am wrong

But after ETH switched to Proof Of Stake we see GPU demand for miners is decreasing. Last Time I checked on https://whattomine.com/gpus NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Only Gives you a profit of around $0.6 per day with an electricity bill of 0.1 per KwH.

With the price of Gpu is $1,649.99 to BreakEven needs 2843 days

At a cost of 6 cents, the payback is already 1200 days. With an increase in the price of cryptocurrency by 6 times, the payback is again 200 days, which will cause an increase in the prices of video cards and massive purchases. The situation in mining is changing very quickly, so miners do not get rid of all video cards, they only sell old video cards.

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AMD is a great company. They are the best at what they do and It is making CPU's. The computer I am using right now and my laptop have both AMD CPU's and they perform great. It is just, when it comes to buying a GPU, I prefer Nvidia over an AMD any day. Even at the same price range, if the Nvidia one performs worse than the AMD one, I will still go with the Nvidia GPU and it is because it simply has better support for everything out there. Some damn video editing programs like davinci's resolve used to not work with the AMD brand GPU's. (they only fixed it recently a few months ago and it is still not complete) This was just one example and there are many like it.

When it comes to picking a GPU, the winner is clear: Nvidia.

Dowper_

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Quote from: dansus021 on March 23, 2023, 07:32:45 AM

Quote from: FP91G on March 22, 2023, 05:06:33 AM

Most of the buyers of video cards are miners. If the payback of this video card decreases to 1 year, then it will be in good demand in the market. And if we see a payback of 6 months in mining, then gamers will not be able to buy this video card in stores and will again scold the miners.

Correct me if I am wrong

But after ETH switched to Proof Of Stake we see GPU demand for miners is decreasing. Last Time I checked on https://whattomine.com/gpus NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Only Gives you a profit of around $0.6 per day with an electricity bill of 0.1 per KwH.

With the price of Gpu is $1,649.99 to BreakEven needs 2843 days

We are in bear market, so it is normal to have small or no profit. But when the profits are high again, you will not be able to buy this gpu for $1650 for sure.

dansus021

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Quote from: FP91G on March 22, 2023, 05:06:33 AM

Most of the buyers of video cards are miners. If the payback of this video card decreases to 1 year, then it will be in good demand in the market. And if we see a payback of 6 months in mining, then gamers will not be able to buy this video card in stores and will again scold the miners.

Correct me if I am wrong

But after ETH switched to Proof Of Stake we see GPU demand for miners is decreasing. Last Time I checked on https://whattomine.com/gpus NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 Only Gives you a profit of around $0.6 per day with an electricity bill of 0.1 per KwH.

With the price of Gpu is $1,649.99 to BreakEven needs 2843 days

FP91G

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Quote from: VRExpress on March 22, 2023, 12:45:21 PM

I am not going to ever run an RTX 4090 for gaming, that's insane, the GPU takes too much power and your electricity bill will run dry faster gaming every month, right now I am still having some difficulty running my gaming desktop with RTX 3070Ti because with the CPU i7 11th gen it takes up to 350watt, running warzone 2.0 and CyberPunk 2077.

I am sure that if a person buys an expensive computer with the most powerful gaming graphics card in the world, then he will not worry about high electricity bills. When a product has no competitors, people will buy it. Enthusiasts learn to use this graphics card for various complex tasks that require professional Nvidia graphics cards, which are very expensive.

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I am not going to ever run an RTX 4090 for gaming, that's insane, the GPU takes too much power and your electricity bill will run dry faster gaming every month, right now I am still having some difficulty running my gaming desktop with RTX 3070Ti because with the CPU i7 11th gen it takes up to 350watt, running warzone 2.0 and CyberPunk 2077.

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Quote from: sxemini on March 22, 2023, 09:21:45 AM

Quote from: Nighthog on March 22, 2023, 09:13:10 AM

AMD should make a 2000$ GPU's for the consumer market like NVIDIA.

500-600W is tolerable for the absolute performance at the top tier they would need to have.
Those who can't afford them buy the lower tier 1000$ GPU @ 200-300W instead.

There is absolutely a market for these expensive GPU's no matter what people say that can't afford them.

There are enough people that can afford them to make them viable.

The problem is that 600W is too much, the RTX4090 was designed for 600 W. According to problems with the manufacturer, the cards were produced in a smaller manufacturing process and therefore the RTX4090 only need 450 W. and the AMD RDNA3 cards were not as good as AMD predicted, not bad, but also not at the point they wanted. An AMD 600W monster could beat the RTX4090, but it can also happen that this is not enough and that would be so bad for AMD.

Multi-chip GPU design will allow performance to scale to unimaginable levels as cooling will be less and less of a issue for the chip as they can break it up into smaller dies.
Power consumption can reach 1kw area if they really want to push the limits with a 2-4x chip design for GPU's depending on how powerful they want to push each chip in the multi chip solution.

2x GPU's gonna be the most likely solution and reaching 600W with those would not be that hard to do if they went with dual 7900 series core design as a first solution.
The professional tier cards could see 4x or more design to come quite quick.

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Quote from: Nighthog on March 22, 2023, 09:13:10 AM

AMD should make a 2000$ GPU's for the consumer market like NVIDIA.

500-600W is tolerable for the absolute performance at the top tier they would need to have.
Those who can't afford them buy the lower tier 1000$ GPU @ 200-300W instead.

There is absolutely a market for these expensive GPU's no matter what people say that can't afford them.

There are enough people that can afford them to make them viable.

The problem is that 600W is too much, the RTX4090 was designed for 600 W. According to problems with the manufacturer, the cards were produced in a smaller manufacturing process and therefore the RTX4090 only need 450 W. and the AMD RDNA3 cards were not as good as AMD predicted, not bad, but also not at the point they wanted. An AMD 600W monster could beat the RTX4090, but it can also happen that this is not enough and that would be so bad for AMD.

Nighthog

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AMD should make a 2000$ GPU's for the consumer market like NVIDIA.

500-600W is tolerable for the absolute performance at the top tier they would need to have.
Those who can't afford them buy the lower tier 1000$ GPU @ 200-300W instead.

There is absolutely a market for these expensive GPU's no matter what people say that can't afford them.

There are enough people that can afford them to make them viable.

Price to performance has to be near linear though. not 10% more performance with 100% more power.

80+ % more performance for the 600W GPU versus the 300W for example.

rdluffy

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I saw this news, and I understand AMD's position in dropping the attempt to have the strongest gpu in this generation.

It's a different series than the previous ones, after ETH switched to POS, it's undeniable the huge drop in GPU sales.
The cost to reach that level may not pay off for AMD. They certainly made that calculation and it would be irrelevant to have the top gpu of this generation.
Maybe next time it might be worth returning to the high-end market.

Besides mining, there is still the fact that the gamer market has no game pushing the generation, as it was last time with Cyberpunk 2077. It is very hard to convince someone to change a 3xxx generation card for a 4xxx one or a 7900xt from AMD.
Of course I also know that there are enthusiasts who always buy high end hardware and change every year, but the majority, where company makes more money is in the average user.

I hope the next generation of cards comes along with an improvement in mining and we can have another race for cards hehehe.

The only observation I make is that AMD can't stop in chip development in order not to be so far behind in the next generation.

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Quote from: dansus021 on March 19, 2023, 08:04:56 PM

I actually agree with the AMD I mean The latest consumer rtx 4090 is absolutely a beast power hunger and crazy expensive. But somehow people are still willing to pay a lot of money to buy Nvidia graphic card. Grin

most monitor nowadays is 4K and gaming requirement is not that high but I do still like people on youtube show their build with RTX 4090

I don't agree with AMD. Most of the buyers of video cards are miners. If the payback of this video card decreases to 1 year, then it will be in good demand in the market. And if we see a payback of 6 months in mining, then gamers will not be able to buy this video card in stores and will again scold the miners.

dansus021

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I actually agree with the AMD I mean The latest consumer rtx 4090 is absolutely a beast power hunger and crazy expensive. But somehow people are still willing to pay a lot of money to buy Nvidia graphic card. Grin

most monitor nowadays is 4K and gaming requirement is not that high but I do still like people on youtube show their build with RTX 4090

JayDDee

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Quote from: FP91G on March 18, 2023, 11:02:25 AM

AMD Chief: Nvidia's RTX 4090 Is a GPU 'Beyond Common Sense'
AMD seemed to think people wouldn't want an expensive, power-hungry GPU.
Mr. Bergman bluntly stated that the general PC gaming public would not accept an expensive, power-hungry GPU:
Technically, it is possible to develop a GPU with specifications that compete with them (Nvidia). However, if you put the GPU developed in this way on the market as a graphics card with a TDP (thermal design power) of 600W and a reference price of $1,600, to general PC gaming fans will you be accepted? After thinking about it, we made a choice not to take such a strategy."

Time will tell if AMD faltered with its decision, but it's given Nvidia an opening to claim it has the world's most powerful GPU. That can go a long way in building mindshare among gamers. It doesn't need it, as it holds the lion's share of the GPU market. Still, it certainly reinforces that notion in the minds of gamers.
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/amd-chief-nvidias-rtx-4090-is-a-gpu-beyond-common-sense

It seems AMD is waiting for demand for 8K gaming to force them. Nvidia isn't waiting, 8K now, power be damned.

FP91G

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AMD Chief: Nvidia's RTX 4090 Is a GPU 'Beyond Common Sense'
AMD seemed to think people wouldn't want an expensive, power-hungry GPU.
Mr. Bergman bluntly stated that the general PC gaming public would not accept an expensive, power-hungry GPU:
Technically, it is possible to develop a GPU with specifications that compete with them (Nvidia). However, if you put the GPU developed in this way on the market as a graphics card with a TDP (thermal design power) of 600W and a reference price of $1,600, to general PC gaming fans will you be accepted? After thinking about it, we made a choice not to take such a strategy."

Time will tell if AMD faltered with its decision, but it's given Nvidia an opening to claim it has the world's most powerful GPU. That can go a long way in building mindshare among gamers. It doesn't need it, as it holds the lion's share of the GPU market. Still, it certainly reinforces that notion in the minds of gamers.
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/amd-chief-nvidias-rtx-4090-is-a-gpu-beyond-common-sense

Topic: Competition between AMD and Nvidia (Read 282 times)