Copper - the forgotten hedge against inflation

timerland

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Quote from: nc50lc on March 27, 2018, 01:13:01 AM

Quote from: timerland on March 25, 2018, 06:19:19 PM

-snip-
I guess if you can get your hands on some copper pennies, that would work as well.

Pure Copper coins are rare.
There are some "collectible" copper coins out there but you will probably get more value out of its rarity (from collectors) than it's weight.
If you ever find any pure copper coin in circulation, stashing them might be illegal (In some Countries, keeping an unreasonable number of coins is illegal, like the Philippines).

I don't think that it's rare. Copper bullion/bars/rounds can always be found on precious metal selling sites such as Apmex or Provident Metals. But upon doing some quick research, the best value bullion I could find was around $0.89 per ounce, while the spot price of copper was just over $0.1 per ounce.

Yes, there may be legal issues with hoarding copper. But as long as you don't melt them, it should be alright. But if you're saving up for a SHTF situation I don't think by that stage anyone would care if you melted them anyways.

I just want to get a head start in investing in copper, but I definitely need an efficient means to do so. Paying 800% over spot for the pure stuff is too much, while the legal concerns with copper coinage is deterring for sure.

STT

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Quote from: CoinCube on March 15, 2018, 01:21:04 AM

One way to invest in copper is to put a copper roof on your home. It lasts forever and is functional.

Is that in the same usage as Lead on a roof for weather proofing lining, resistance to wind, rain, rust ? It would be an expensive use for copper but it would be useful and also an asset that much is true, problem is the effort to install it on the roof. Thats no small deal for most people.

Also lead is sometimes stolen from roofs, there is some security risk especially if it were displayed prominently. Copper ages slightly green I believe, so not sure its attractive look or not. Good idea overall though

I wanted to create a cooling loop for a PC out of copper, about 18 months ago it was a bit cheaper. On any big crash these are decent ideas but also there is a spread cost to buy/sell of assets in this way, the local metals dealer wont give the greatest of prices so really it needs a long term genuine usage to justify 'investment'

nc50lc

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Quote from: timerland on March 25, 2018, 06:19:19 PM

-snip-
I guess if you can get your hands on some copper pennies, that would work as well.

Pure Copper coins are rare.
There are some "collectible" copper coins out there but you will probably get more value out of its rarity (from collectors) than it's weight.
If you ever find any pure copper coin in circulation, stashing them might be illegal (In some Countries, keeping an unreasonable number of coins is illegal, like the Philippines).

timerland

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 09, 2018, 09:34:56 AM

For several years I have been saying that copper is a good additional metal to hold as part of a diversified portfolio. It doesn't seem to have attracted much attention, although there have been a few instances of people selling copper ingots as investments.

The money GPS has just produced a video which raises the topic of copper as a wealth protection metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pI8XK-VZbs

I believe that with the new Belt and Road initiative, and various other projects, copper is likely to outpace gold ( but probably not Bitcoin

).

With the industrial uses of copper it's always going to have a demand. But copper is different from other industrial metals, because previously it was used as currency as well worldwide. It's like a more industrial and volatile version of silver.

I was thinking of investing in copper to diversify my precious metals investments. But I don't know what kindo f copper bullion to buy.

Should i buy scrap metals bit by bit, or should I just go for ingots minted by bullion companies? What kind of denominations/weights should I buy?

I guess if you can get your hands on some copper pennies, that would work as well. @Jet Cash any thoughts on this?

Febo

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Quote from: bitserve on March 16, 2018, 08:12:00 PM

Quote from: Dertcoin on March 16, 2018, 05:03:42 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 15, 2018, 11:23:22 PM

How many copper would it take to store $10 million dollars? Is it something I could carry easily to another country?

I have a few kg's of pure copper old server heatsinks. Am I rich now?

If you can separate out the copper, then it would be worth a lot. But the labor involved in separating out kgs of copper is probably going to make it not worth it.

Separate from what? It is pure copper heatsinks pulled from old servers: ONLY A BIG SOLID BLOCK OF COPPER. Each of those may weight like 250gr or more... and I have dozens.

But I was basically kidding about the idea of copper as something particularly valuable. Don't think the bunch of heatsinks are worth as copper more than its value as.... well.... premium heatsinks.

Think is that all new stuff is much lighter and they use less and less precious metals in them. So new computer you buy today have much less then old computer you bought 20 years ago. Same with TV or washing machine. I just installed new dishwashing machine, Old I could barely move, new was like a feather. 20 years from now things will just go further this way and I think 50 years from now old TVs and old stuff will actually be valuable and not just for its antics value but fro the precious metals holding inside.

Dertcoin

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Quote from: bitserve on March 16, 2018, 08:12:00 PM

Quote from: Dertcoin on March 16, 2018, 05:03:42 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 15, 2018, 11:23:22 PM

How many copper would it take to store $10 million dollars? Is it something I could carry easily to another country?

I have a few kg's of pure copper old server heatsinks. Am I rich now?

If you can separate out the copper, then it would be worth a lot. But the labor involved in separating out kgs of copper is probably going to make it not worth it.

Separate from what? It is pure copper heatsinks pulled from old servers: ONLY A BIG SOLID BLOCK OF COPPER. Each of those may weight like 250gr or more... and I have dozens.

But I was basically kidding about the idea of copper as something particularly valuable. Don't think the bunch of heatsinks are worth as copper more than its value as.... well.... premium heatsinks.

I dunno I would take a picture, show it to a junkyard and ask them how much they would buy it for. Rather than just assume it's not worth more than heatsinjs.

magneto

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 09, 2018, 09:34:56 AM

For several years I have been saying that copper is a good additional metal to hold as part of a diversified portfolio. It doesn't seem to have attracted much attention, although there have been a few instances of people selling copper ingots as investments.

The money GPS has just produced a video which raises the topic of copper as a wealth protection metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pI8XK-VZbs

I believe that with the new Belt and Road initiative, and various other projects, copper is likely to outpace gold ( but probably not Bitcoin

).

Well, I've got my fair share of invesments in metals.

I haven't diversified into copper simply because it is extremely hard to store and move around. Plus the premiums you pay on these things make it sometimes unfeasible as an investment. Sure you can hoard it for SHTF situations, but unless you trade copper etfs online instead of dealing with physical copper, you're not getting a liquid investment.

I agree that copper seems to be a great investment at the moment, especially with metals generally stabilising, but we don't have many channels in which to go through to get to this opportunity. You need basically storage space(a ton), you need ways to cash out, there is a higher floor for efficient investing... If you want to invest in physical metals, stick to gold and silver. They will still perform well, especially silver as a hedge against inflation, regardless of whether it is outperformed by copper.

bitserve

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Quote from: Dertcoin on March 16, 2018, 05:03:42 PM

Quote from: bitserve on March 15, 2018, 11:23:22 PM

How many copper would it take to store $10 million dollars? Is it something I could carry easily to another country?

I have a few kg's of pure copper old server heatsinks. Am I rich now?

If you can separate out the copper, then it would be worth a lot. But the labor involved in separating out kgs of copper is probably going to make it not worth it.

Separate from what? It is pure copper heatsinks pulled from old servers: ONLY A BIG SOLID BLOCK OF COPPER. Each of those may weight like 250gr or more... and I have dozens.

But I was basically kidding about the idea of copper as something particularly valuable. Don't think the bunch of heatsinks are worth as copper more than its value as.... well.... premium heatsinks.

Dertcoin

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Quote from: bitserve on March 15, 2018, 11:23:22 PM

How many copper would it take to store $10 million dollars? Is it something I could carry easily to another country?

I have a few kg's of pure copper old server heatsinks. Am I rich now?

If you can separate out the copper, then it would be worth a lot. But the labor involved in separating out kgs of copper is probably going to make it not worth it.

bitserve

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How many copper would it take to store $10 million dollars? Is it something I could carry easily to another country?

I have a few kg's of pure copper old server heatsinks. Am I rich now?

Dertcoin

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Quote from: STT on March 15, 2018, 12:15:56 AM

Quote from: Dertcoin on March 10, 2018, 12:39:26 PM

I think OP is right. Copper is used in every industry. Plumbers still use copper piping. The governments still use copper coins. Copper is a popular semiconductor used in electronics.

It's all about demand, and copper has a really high demand on a reliable basis. That gives copper a fixed price that helps protect people from inflation

Its not a fixed demand, its related to industrial demand. Copper is a commodity reliant and related to GDP growth. It will retract in line with that, same reason Platnium cant really be used as a currency in the way gold does.

Gold silver and copper have been used as money in the past but copper has the lowest attribution to a solid standard of money. When dollar fails even copper will be greatly favoured but its only really used for loose transaction of small amounts where price varys greatly also. Food is a commodity also and price can vary alot there too so copper matched to simple deal is ideal perhaps as a common currency but not so much over great periods of time.
China in recent years outlawed copper being traded between construction firms in lieu of currency as it proved more reliable then their paper money. So yes copper is monitised in times of loose money but its not a strict standard imo. I can always use some copper, I like it personally but its not rare.

Wow, I can't believe copper is being used to trade like that. What other industries do this? That's kind of cool, except for the fact that you'd need to carry around a lot of copper to use it like money...

Febo

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Quote from: Dertcoin on March 13, 2018, 07:36:20 PM

Quote from: Jet Cash on March 10, 2018, 04:25:39 PM

I'm not suggesting that you invest in physical copper as a major long term asset. What I suggest is an additional minor store of wealth in case of future economic problems. It is difficult to anticipate all of the future problems. My policy is to buy plumbing off cuts, and to flatten the pipes to reduce the storage requirements. If we do have a major financial melt down, then I can either trade the copper, or I can sell it to a scrap yard. I've more than doubled my money, and if I need a bit of cash, it's easy to dispose of a bit of my stash for a few hundred pounds.

Hi Jet,

This sounds really intriguing. Can you clarify a few things;:

1. Are you saying you can buy trash copper from plumbing companies then turn around and sell them to scrap yards for profit?
2. Do you need to flatten them in order to increase their value in the eyes of junk yards?

You flatten them to save space at storing and at transport. It will not increase value. With such things as plumbing off cuts you increase value only when you have as pure copper as you can.

markj113

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Quote from: lumeire on March 14, 2018, 01:48:53 AM

Quote from: markj113 on March 10, 2018, 04:37:39 PM

Copper only costs about $6800 a tonne, good luck stacking a significant amount.

Silver is bad enough which is why I mainly hold gold.

I've read an article a few days ago that argue investing in small market metals is better as hedge versus large market metals like copper. One particular metal stated there was Cobalt, a metal needed in the production of Lithium ion batteries. They've said that over the past few years, the value of small market metals has risen much better compared to large market metals even gold.

Don't forget the importance of market liquidity when the time to sell comes.

Who are you going to sell your small market metal too and what % of market value do they pay?

TERA2

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No not Ceruloplasmin Coin, just Ceruloplasmin, like Ethereum.

CoinCube

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One way to invest in copper is to put a copper roof on your home. It lasts forever and is functional.

nc50lc

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Quote from: TERA2 on March 14, 2018, 11:36:55 PM

Let's make a copper backed coin called Ceruloplasmin.

~~Businesses that requires ICO funds~~ Scammers will actually buy that idea.
Ceruloplasmin Coin (CPC)
"Every CPC token you hodl is equivalent to 1 ton of copper, 10% will be donated to charity"

STT

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Quote from: Dertcoin on March 10, 2018, 12:39:26 PM

I think OP is right. Copper is used in every industry. Plumbers still use copper piping. The governments still use copper coins. Copper is a popular semiconductor used in electronics.

It's all about demand, and copper has a really high demand on a reliable basis. That gives copper a fixed price that helps protect people from inflation

Its not a fixed demand, its related to industrial demand. Copper is a commodity reliant and related to GDP growth. It will retract in line with that, same reason Platnium cant really be used as a currency in the way gold does.

Gold silver and copper have been used as money in the past but copper has the lowest attribution to a solid standard of money. When dollar fails even copper will be greatly favoured but its only really used for loose transaction of small amounts where price varys greatly also. Food is a commodity also and price can vary alot there too so copper matched to simple deal is ideal perhaps as a common currency but not so much over great periods of time.
China in recent years outlawed copper being traded between construction firms in lieu of currency as it proved more reliable then their paper money. So yes copper is monitised in times of loose money but its not a strict standard imo. I can always use some copper, I like it personally but its not rare.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Let's make a copper backed coin called Ceruloplasmin.

Dertcoin

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Quote from: lumeire on March 14, 2018, 01:48:53 AM

Quote from: markj113 on March 10, 2018, 04:37:39 PM

Copper only costs about $6800 a tonne, good luck stacking a significant amount.

Silver is bad enough which is why I mainly hold gold.

I've read an article a few days ago that argue investing in small market metals is better as hedge versus large market metals like copper. One particular metal stated there was Cobalt, a metal needed in the production of Lithium ion batteries. They've said that over the past few years, the value of small market metals has risen much better compared to large market metals even gold.

I guess that's one reason. But also, they're finding better uses for metals they never really used as much in tech.

New PCB boards are using a larger diversity of metals, for example

lumeire

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Quote from: markj113 on March 10, 2018, 04:37:39 PM

Copper only costs about $6800 a tonne, good luck stacking a significant amount.

Silver is bad enough which is why I mainly hold gold.

I've read an article a few days ago that argue investing in small market metals is better as hedge versus large market metals like copper. One particular metal stated there was Cobalt, a metal needed in the production of Lithium ion batteries. They've said that over the past few years, the value of small market metals has risen much better compared to large market metals even gold.

Dertcoin

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 10, 2018, 04:25:39 PM

I'm not suggesting that you invest in physical copper as a major long term asset. What I suggest is an additional minor store of wealth in case of future economic problems. It is difficult to anticipate all of the future problems. My policy is to buy plumbing off cuts, and to flatten the pipes to reduce the storage requirements. If we do have a major financial melt down, then I can either trade the copper, or I can sell it to a scrap yard. I've more than doubled my money, and if I need a bit of cash, it's easy to dispose of a bit of my stash for a few hundred pounds.

Hi Jet,

This sounds really intriguing. Can you clarify a few things;:

1. Are you saying you can buy trash copper from plumbing companies then turn around and sell them to scrap yards for profit?
2. Do you need to flatten them in order to increase their value in the eyes of junk yards?

markj113

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Copper only costs about $6800 a tonne, good luck stacking a significant amount.

Silver is bad enough which is why I mainly hold gold.

Jet Cash

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I'm not suggesting that you invest in physical copper as a major long term asset. What I suggest is an additional minor store of wealth in case of future economic problems. It is difficult to anticipate all of the future problems. My policy is to buy plumbing off cuts, and to flatten the pipes to reduce the storage requirements. If we do have a major financial melt down, then I can either trade the copper, or I can sell it to a scrap yard. I've more than doubled my money, and if I need a bit of cash, it's easy to dispose of a bit of my stash for a few hundred pounds.

Dertcoin

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I think OP is right. Copper is used in every industry. Plumbers still use copper piping. The governments still use copper coins. Copper is a popular semiconductor used in electronics.

It's all about demand, and copper has a really high demand on a reliable basis. That gives copper a fixed price that helps protect people from inflation

alyssa85

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Quote from: JanpriX on March 09, 2018, 01:27:37 PM

Honestly speaking, I really have no idea that you could invest into copper. Shocked

I'm very new when it comes to metal valuation and as you can clearly see, I don't have any investment that include those metals. If what the video's saying is true, it will be worth it to check copper and assess its value (whether it will be a good or bad investment) in the coming years. Diversification really help you get over in this kind of market that we have now (cryptosphere). Thanks for sharing this one. Wink

You just invest in copper mininhg companies. Most of which are in Chile (25%), USA (16%) and Australia (6%)

HabBear

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 09, 2018, 09:34:56 AM

For several years I have been saying that copper is a good additional metal to hold as part of a diversified portfolio.

I haven't heard this about copper. Copper sounds awfully heaving to hold as part of a diversified portfolio. How about a little Either to diversify your bitcoin? Wink

As far as precious metals go, I hear Cobalt is the new "thing". It's used in every mobile device to keep battery power stable and has now been targeted for use in electric and hybrid cars. Research it and let me know what you think!

Febo

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Quote from: Jet Cash on March 09, 2018, 09:34:56 AM

For several years I have been saying that copper is a good additional metal to hold as part of a diversified portfolio. It doesn't seem to have attracted much attention, although there have been a few instances of people selling copper ingots as investments.

The money GPS has just produced a video which raises the topic of copper as a wealth protection metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pI8XK-VZbs

I believe that with the new Belt and Road initiative, and various other projects, copper is likely to outpace gold ( but probably not Bitcoin

).

When you have largest amount of wealth to store you already have problems with storing silver. Copper is even cheaper so even bigger problems. Gold is perfect because of this. And I guess also more expensive compared to silver today if we look at rarity ratio.

realr0ach

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Copper is a joke of an investment compared to silver and gold. It's way too abundant. Even LEAD is scarcer than copper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth%27s_crust

I don't really consider copper a true noble metal either. Look at old Roman coins. A lot of the gold and silver roman coins still look brand new. The copper coins from those days look like someone took a shit on them. They just don't hold up:

There is no need to search any further than silver if you're looking for the best trade for leveraged gold on steroids (due to silver being much smaller market cap and being the most downwardly manipulated metal on earth with the largest naked short positions).

As you can see, there is no instrumenet on the planet artificially manipulated downwards more than silver and this manipulation will violently implode soon enough:

aso118

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Doesn't copper oxidize and form a rust like layer on its surface? Gold (and to a lesser extent silver) are kind of inert metals which make them easy to store and a form of value. That is why people used to hoard these 'precious' metals.
Copper might turn out to be a good investment, if industrial demand for copper increases and its price increases. But I do not think it is a good hedge against inflation.

JanpriX

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Buy The F*cking Dip

Honestly speaking, I really have no idea that you could invest into copper. Shocked

I'm very new when it comes to metal valuation and as you can clearly see, I don't have any investment that include those metals. If what the video's saying is true, it will be worth it to check copper and assess its value (whether it will be a good or bad investment) in the coming years. Diversification really help you get over in this kind of market that we have now (cryptosphere). Thanks for sharing this one. Wink

Jet Cash

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Copper is cheaper to buy than gold, especially if you buy offcuts from plumbers. It's one way to build a small alternative investment.

In ancient Egypt, copper was more valuable than gold.

cellard

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I've never put much attention to copper or any other metals besides gold and silver to be honest. And during terms of inflation crisis, since im pretty much poor, I would rather take higher risk/reward moves and try to increase my purchasing power by being on more interesting things, obviously, bitcoin being the #1 pick right now.

If I had a lot of wealth I would focus more on keeping it rather than making a killing, but when you don't have much to lose, it's good to look at the more radical stuff and copper isn't definitely on that list. Just gotta keep holding bitcoin for 5 to 10 more years to discover if we were insane or geniuses that got super wealthy.

Jet Cash

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For several years I have been saying that copper is a good additional metal to hold as part of a diversified portfolio. It doesn't seem to have attracted much attention, although there have been a few instances of people selling copper ingots as investments.

The money GPS has just produced a video which raises the topic of copper as a wealth protection metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pI8XK-VZbs

I believe that with the new Belt and Road initiative, and various other projects, copper is likely to outpace gold ( but probably not Bitcoin

).

Topic: Copper - the forgotten hedge against inflation (Read 380 times)