Topic: Covid Vaccine and animal testing (Read 308 times)

Testing is meaningless when you are testing on things that you don't know. Let's actually separate one of the viruses out of the mess from the swab, so that we can really look at what it is. This hasn't been done, yet, even though franky1 constantly rampages that it has been done all over the place. Here's a guy who is putting his money where his mouth is. franky1 would never do that.


Millionaire offers $1.2 M reward to anyone providing an isolated sample of the COVID-19 virus

Indeed. It is like what lesser evil you want to choose from, if you consider the life of animal's in the testing grounds.

Will you choose to have human to be tested first, or animals?

This is a very large humanity of you to feel all this bitterness and pain towards the experiments that scientists are carrying out on animals. Yes, mercy on animals is required, but what is the solution? Are you suggesting that we do these painful experiments on humans? This cannot be allowed by anyone. If you felt so much pain towards animals, how would you feel if scientists conducted similar experiments on humans?
Of course I understand your feelings and I have full appreciation and admiration for this great human feeling, but what can be done? There is a sacrifice that someone has to make and this one cannot be a human but rather an animal.

Base on theory aspect of it, any vaccine introduce is supposed to be admitted to animal or use  to test animal in order to know the enzymes and biochemical aspect of it before consumption, and the practical have to start with animals before using it to humans to avoid massive death occurrence in the society and nation entirely.

My reasons for what I do and say are mine. But the basic idea is to find truth. Often truth comes easy. Often we have to go through all kinds of experiences to find truth.

This is a forum. Even if something that I think is the truth, really isn't the truth, we have people like you to point it out... if you know and tell the truth.

Then why did you even consider answering these questions? why do you even consider having an argument about this? what will your considerations do with the truth.

What does a person's consideration have to do with truth? Many people consider all kinds of things in life, and then do things that don't work, because they found the wrong answer in their considerations.

Thank you to everyone for your input.

If you consider yourself an animal, you have the wrong answer.     

I guess the right question is, do you consider yourself an animal?

After answering that, then you have your very own answer to your own philosophical question.

At the same time, did you ever notice how many animals died from safety testing of various vaccines, but people - at worst - only got autism? There's a difference... like the difference that human thinking is way above that of any "other" animal.

Humans might seem to act like animals in some of the ways that they behave at times. But they have loads of debate-filled thoughts within themselves about what they are doing, even in bad behavior. If this is instinct, it's instinct of an astounding, untrackable degree. Are humans animals?

It is not uncommon for different people to draw distinctions within a species, and sometimes they even convince themselves that the classic scientific definition of 'species' (e.g., being able to mate and produce viable offspring) should be abandoned when it comes to H. Sapian for spiritual reasons among others.  While Judaism in particular is prone to these sorts of ethnic supremacist classification systems and it is well represented in the teachings of certain sects of Judaism, all the way up to considering Jews to be a different species than non-Jews, it is not alone.

Probably the biggest 'threat' to Joe Sixpack is a non-denominational general idea that the single species can/should be subdivided into a predator and prey categories.  Naturally those who entertain this notion consider themselves to be or the predator class typically, and they use this idea as a crutch to justify exploiting others.  Bankers, 'captains of industry', politicians, etc, are prone to understand 'the human animal' from this perspective.

I'd certainly not roll up my sleeve to be injected by people of either of the above reprehensible philosophies, and both are highly represented as the drivers behind the 'covid-19' scamdemic and the gene therapy injections which are to fall out of it.  And drivers behind frequent injection of the pleb/goyim classes more generally before that.  Both types of supremacists are unlikely to have any compunction about 'animal testing' on the appropriate population of humans.

Did anybody ever notice that people are called animals? They might be called the human animal. So, we are getting the animal testing right now with the Covid vaccines being tested on human animals.

The whole testing thing is a sham anyway. They aren't using the real covid virus for the testing, and they are only checking for antibody creation and immediate side effects.

Wouldn't it be great if they used natural immunity as a comparison in some of the tests?

Harming them is never the goal or objective of researches so we can just pity them if they get harmed in the process. But it is better than it being a human.

I pity those innocent animals who are being used for vaccine or other drug testing, they can't even speak for themselves, even though sometimes they rights are being violated, how can they test something without using animals?  I hope there would be another way of testing without harming them.

the whole concept of 'animal testing' is about the pre-released pre-approved experiments where the formula has had no testing and is exposed to animals to find out for the first time if its dangerous. whereby dangerous formula's can cause harm to animals

covid vaccine has passed all the danger/safety tests..
and no kid was used as guineapigs for that.
..
its 2021 not 2020.. we have moved passed the clinical trials..
..
kids are now given covid vaccine just like adults. as a released and accepted treatment.
the kids are not being tested on for danger/safety.
its more statistical analysis of does it actually help help reduce infections in the young. is it worth even giving to kids.

so if you think that 2021 covid vaccine usage is the same as the phase 1 clinical trials on mice.
then you are mission about a year of progress inbetween

That's only if, and if all the animals from the testing died, then there's no way it will be tested to treat people.

This is the reason why they do animal testing, to avoid unexpected results and to see if the labrats die from the medication they get.

This is also the reason why there are many steps to begin with before you can be cleared for clinical trials for human testing.

Rats are the mostly used animal for testing against any kind if research related to humans because bith have sane parental species millions of years ago. But do you consider it as cruelty so you recommend to test the fellow humans as test species over animals? Which will be more cruel than usual animals.

Here ya go dummy  

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/meet-volunteers-taking-part-vaccine-trial-children-115737320.html

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participants-dosed-phase-23-study-0

Hehe I am not just any troll..I am a super troll.Tsk tsk assumptions V presumptions re your other enflamed waffle above but you profiling skills have much room for improvement like some other characteristics you have....but I don't judge  My skills are much better 



~Supertroll

if you want to quote scripture and show how you believe in god.
well god in your books used his own son as a guineapig. and let his own kid be sacrificed
seems god cares more about a cow than his own son.

if you think a mouses life is more important than 100million lives. then ofcourse you will also be foolish to then suggest that man should use his own kind as guinea pigs.

seems you dont care about human life. i bet you wish to suicide yourself due to the atrocities of civilisation and hope to be reincarnated as a animal. i can pretty much guarantee thats your mindset. as thats the typical indoctrinated script people like you believe in. wasting time in this life. hoping the next life is better than a dream

funny part is that you say animals were created for the needs of man.. but then you go on your indocrinated warped rhetoric that man should not use animals and instead man should kill other men and children

sounds a lil psycho to me
"dont eat a chicken kill your kids instead".. hmm.. do you even hear yourself.

are you soo indocrinated into your scripture that your not even hearing your rhetoric of 'leave the mouse alone and kill your kids'

if you cannot hear how psychotic and how soulless your words are. then maybe you will not end up in the happy place when judged. because you have completely misinterpreted the scriptures of your own judge and jury

..
try to realise that if there were 8billion humans and 8 billion mice
if there was risk of death of 100mill humans.. that 100m mice dont have to die
infact only 20,000 mice have to suffer to save 100m humans

when you can finally understand the math and logic that only 0.00025% of mice can save 1.25% of humans
you will see that the benefits outweigh the cost
..
heck if you just want to think about human guinea pigs.. where 20000 have to risk dying so 100m can live
math and logic and nature and balance would still say 20000mice suffering can save 19999 human guineapigs

.. then if we drill down more. and say about them 20000 mice at risk of death.
if 10 mice at first trial can save 19999 mice. its worth it.

so then you soon find out..
10 mice did not die. which allowed trial to progress to 20000mice
19999 survived which allowed trial to progress to 10humans
no humans died which meant it could progress to 2000 humans
no humans died which meant it could progress to 20000 humans
1 human died.

but now with that 99.995% success rate. where only one human and 1 mouse died
not dozens not thousands. but just a couple
those 100m humans at risk of death will can be reduced to 5000 deaths
1human 1 mouse sacrificed for saving 99,995,000

i call that worth it.
oh and by the way the human trials of vaccines was 18+ volunteers.. no kids were used as guineapigs
so please edit your mind and realise your:
'they are using children as their guinea pigs.Wait...they already are and that is one transgression that will certainly earn punishment along with the wicked parents that volunteer them"
is untrue
ill say it again.. no kids were volunteered into covid vaccine trials.

so please repeat that in your mind "no kids were volunteered into vaccine trials" repeat it 5 times
and then realise how ludicrous your rhetoric is where you say
"Let he who invents test upon himself and leave the guinea pig be"


... as for your other rhetoric. saying woman led men astray. well im guessing your just covering up your reason to be a single virgin. i wont judge. but seems you are judging too much without understanding facts and numbers
screw it ill judge... you are a psychotic virgin, sexist brainwashed person that has no concept of understanding facts logic numbers. you are so indocrinated in scripture that you would prefer to genocide humans for the sake of a couple mice.

please take your time to wait up to how your auto-piloted scripture rhetoric is not helping you look like a peaceful man.

oh and heres a scripture for you
judge the before thy neighbour
(judge yourself before others)... try it. read your own rhetoric and judge what you have said from an outsiders point of view. i hope it wakes you up

You must be a pet lover @OP and its good, I'm even hoping to get a dog of a good breed for a pet soon.
Using animals to test vaccines isn't the best of practice but its the only choice we've got or perhaps you know a better way, you could as well suggest it. Science needs these test to be on point about the results. I'm very much okay with testing out these drugs and chemicals on animals. They aren't pet animals until you adopt and make them one.

Science is doing a lot and these scientists go  through a lot in having to endure the reaction from the crew act as you call it that is being done to these animals. Besides, they fed them  and watched them grow, they are definitely attached to some but, for the greater purpose, they have to conduct these tests.

If we fail to apply what we learn from animal testing - they all died - and then we treat people, what good is the animal testing? It's then people it's being tested on.

If we fail to use animals for our numerous experiments what how then are we going to test our medications to be sure its safe to be induced on humans. Are u suggesting we experiment with humans other than. the regular animals avaulable to us. Despite the numerous research been embarked on before some vacinnes are produced it is still eminent that we carry out our experiments on animals so as to satisfy our hypothesis before we dime it fit to be induced on humans which are delicate and creative creatures

All the rodents and monkeys died in short order. The sheeple and cattle (chattel) are simply lasting a little longer.

The covid vaccine was first tested in animals, especially rodents. It is like the most common scientific approach for scientific testing. Then we get into different stages of trial before the vaccine can be deployed in the mass, which is what happening right now.

(2) Great work mr. captain obvious. JK, of course it is, thats why there are clinical trials in different stages where the subjects fill up forms as they receive money for being a subject for the research.

Aren't we too late on this testing because the vaccine is already in the market and is being applied to mostly elderly persons.

Secondly, all vaccines can't be tested 100% on animals as it may have different results as compared to when the same vaccine is applied to humans.

Yes, for something like the Covid vaccine where vastly more humans are save than the number of mice tested then it's an easy decision. But sometimes, for other things, it's difficult to determine a threshold of acceptability using numbers. As a thought experiment to determine what is acceptable (because obviously in practice the numbers wouldn't be so high) is it right to kill 1 million mice to save 1 human? Or all mice in existence for 1 human? Then we move away from life-saving drugs to everyday medicines that are useful but not life-savers. Is it okay to kill 1,000 mice to test a new headache pill that is perhaps a  slight improvement on what's already available on the market? Then eventually we move onto animal testing for cosmetics... and presumably we passed the threshold somewhere, because many people would argue you shouldn't kill say 10,000 mice to test a new lipstick. It can be a grey area.

Thanks for the heads up ya creepy little nonce kind sUr   Now stop stalking me bumping the thread for me or I will tell the Queen mod

That long paragraph only meant this, so I saved your time for anyone that would read that senseless sentences.


*Proper use of punctuation
*Spacing
*Too many words per paragraph
*Too many pauses (period)
*No stands/ground

---

Back to the topic:

Animal testing is a much ethical approach than a human testing as rats can reproduce so much faster than human. Also, hypocrisy aside, we all know that they doesnt have that kind of intelligence as much as we have to question the testing that is happening to them.

I don't think animal testing is really a problem, as long as it's for the good of billions of people I think it's the right thing to do. After all, animals used as experiments is a better thing than making humans as experiments.

All creatures great and small.All men short and tall.For every thing a reason and for everything a season.Mankind was created above the beasts of the field and good husbandry is expected.Cattle,sheep,fowl and fish and many other creatures provided for their needs but is not for their "progress".Let he who invents test upon himself and leave the guinea pig be.It will only be a matter of time before they are using children as their guinea pigs.Wait...they already are and that is one transgression that will certainly earn punishment along with the wicked parents that volunteer them and boast about it to their virtue signalling mob of friends.Animals being bred for such purposes is unnatural and unethical.Let the lab technican catch wild rats and squirt ammonia into his own eyes.The creatures you are meant to be masters of are not there for such purposes.Mankind will reap what he has sown.His attempts to fix what has been assaulted by him are in vain.Mankind is the cause of all the evil on this earth and it was a woman who led him astray while it was her easy seduction that ensnared both.Mankind is lost but it will be his sin that will find him.I am glad readers look at my comments as delusionary babble because I intend to sound even more foolish and crazy as time passes.It is no skin off my nose as the opinion of no man concerns me.The rabble are unworthy of understanding even the next step they take and for the rabble who tweet and text meaningless trivial garble among themselves all day no quarter will be given.They deserve their lot and will get their full share.It is the innocent ones among them I pity.


...meanwhile as millions face poverty,destitution and starvation all over the globe.Priorities for humanity being set by the most degenerate and depraved humans.What they will endure after their lifeforce is removed from their vessels they are not prepared for.Their conscious individual will still remain intact throughout an eternity of damnation.They should make the most of what they have here and stop masquerading as saviours who care about anything while setting up trusts to virtue signal all the while paying theselves handsome dividends while the smuck pays his taxes from his labour too tired out to think and corrupted with every manner of distraction all the while kept in line through non sequiteurs churned out through the thrash he reads and watches.Mankind is lost but his sin will surely find him as is the lot of the noveau rich bitcoiner frauds who spout about freedom while dreaming of a house on the hill near the celebrity frauds next to the "lets put it to the man" rebel rockstar muppets.They work in vain and all they achieve is for show.Their hypocrisy and vanity stinks to the ethers and their days will not last lang but their suffering will be endless.Selah





.....Ps: I don't dislike you sir.There is hope for those capable of objective and rational thought once it is steered in the right direction by a good conscience.Men of goodwill usually confess and convert before they expire due to their very nature as it is right and just to allow them.I simply play the underdogs advocate as it helps me practice my written english.

Even I like to read.Might I suggest another favourite author of mine?



...and if you say it backwards

and how many lightbulbs can a mouse replace
how many cars can a guineapig manufacture
how many rats can farm a field and create more produce than it consumes

so i guess you are talking about rodents squandering their life on worthless exploits and will draw their last mortal breath not succeeding at anything meaningful

by the way, rats kill more rats then lab techs do

You waste your time here sir.This forum draws in the unbelievers and the wicked.The most vile forms of life inhabit this place and your efforts are in vain.Sit with scoffers and you will be devoured.
They are correct in assuming their place as beasts but I assure you they are not at the top of the food chain and they will only understand this once they have drawn their last breath on this mortal plain.They squander their lives which only lasts the blinking of others eyes on worthless exploits which in the end are but vanity.Their efforts are in vain and their achievements will perish with them or overwritten at a later stage.They destroy their own habitat,poison their very existence while squabbling among themselves while wicked men are seen as saviours lining their pockets with all manner of solutions to their problems.
They will fail.They will not fix the culmination of their obscenities with their profitable solutions.Wicked men will merely prolong their suffering as the judgement of their errors come to fruition and those wicked men are merely used as a means to an end.

I met one of these men once in a hospice who had lived a long life in human years and claimed to be a follower of the one from Nazareth.I listened to him boast of his worldly acheivements and about his pride in his offspring and their worldly progress all the while explaining how lonely it was without having had any visit him in months.

I was about to politely disengage our conversation when I detected an element of humility in his demeanour through his genuine regret about how he had lived a selfish life full of self fulfillment and sat a while longer as he spoke of a dream he had about being in a yard witnessing the most cruel acts of depravity being carried out upon a dog by a gang of hooligans who continuously beat the poor creature all the while he was simply unable to speak,or move to intervene which caused him the most miserable sadness and heartbreak until the end of the dream when the poor tormented creature howling in the most distressed manner covered in blood and in a wretched state staggered over to him and clung to him for protection.Only then was he able to speak and move and in a loud voice with great authority dispersed the depraved crowd and picked up the dog and carried it away.

It clearly imprinted itself into this gentleman's being and he was at great odds to understand the meaning of the dream he had which woke him up at 3am causing a terrible sadness to remain with him until daylight so I explained to him that the dog in this case was him and who he thought he was in the dream was the one from Nazareth and he had been feeling the same sadness he was causing to the one from Nazareth should he not humble himself to confess his transgressions and accept the fact that no matter what men do they cannot buy themselves out of gehenna through their deeds or worldly accomplishments without freely accepting him as the lamb slaughtered for their transgressions.This is his and all men's only last hope no matter what they do,say or think.In hell nobody will hear you scream no matter how loud.When your soul is carried away you have no control over its direction no matter how powerful you were.

I told him a dog always returns to its own vomit and it was this continuous relapse to sin which caused the dog to find itself in this yard surrounded without any protection but it was merciful that the dog managed to crawl to safety in the end but for many unfortunate souls there will be no place of safety to crawl to and they did not place their fate in the one who saves freely once he is called upon with a contrite heart.This once powerful man was humbled immeadiately and thanked me sincerely for our conversation.

On another note..Do you brew beer? Perhaps I may pass through your way one day on my travels for a pow wow.The more beer I drink the more stories I spew but I cannot tell you anything about the shamir.I know nothing of these things but I do know there are worms in a place where they never die

Don't animals have long been human test-tubes and vaccines in circulation now whether they were in the wild or in the wild of the vaccine? There's been a lot of rumors that this vaccine is less effective or in any religion We and my hope that everything we do is for the greater good in order to free myself from the pandemic of the corona virus that grows ever more willingly and soon ends all of the horrors we experience today

and 100 mice will not be tested unless it passed the 10 mice trial
and 10 mice will not be tested unless it passed the 1 mouse trial

so in short. only 1 mouse has to suffer to deem the product a failure.

they wont just try it on 100 mice right from the start.
1 mouse can prevent 100 mice suffering if the product has major faults from the start

I agree, it will be hard dir people to stop these laboratory testing because too many companies are relying on it. The argument that it is for the safety and advancement of human nature will always prevail. I don't think a drug will be allowed on the market if it hadn't been tested before. And probably no human will volunteer for testing if it wasn't tested on animals before. It's a cruel world.

In the society, there is an order of things, there are predators and there are the preys. It is good for us all to be reminded that we are all animals, yes! it is just that we humans are higher animals and the most advanced predators. From this deduction, you can point out that as far as we are at the top of the food chain, humans will continue to prey on the less for food or research. Not like i am in full support of the killing of lower animals, but that laboratory practice is for the advancement of humanity.

the issue i have with vegans/vegetarians is when they get soo wrapped up in the concept of animal consciousness and wanting to imagine them as humans that deserve human rights.. that they forget that their anger at animal testing makes them want to kill humans 'for the sake of the animals'

i am sorry to say this but we are top of the food chain.. in nature we are predators. in a fight for survival its either us or them. thats nature.

i get it you want utopia, peace amungst species. all living together in harmony..
i get it you dont want to eat animals and dont think of yourself as a predator.
but. if there was a choice between testing 1-1000* mice to save 100million humans. sorry but the mice have to suffer to save 100m from suffering

if one deer can feed a family for a week. to avoid starvation. sorry but that deer has to go

..
one thing you may want to learn outside of your 1980's vegan rhetoric.. is that labs do actually have some regulation. some limitations. some processes.
institutional labs cant just grab some animals and torture them out of curiosity
they actually only get funding and a schedule for a trial if that trial has a purpose that will benefit people

yes animal cruelty is bad. when its done for no purpose but some insane persons entertainment.
but lab trials have regulation/policies/limitations to not harm unless the social/health benefits are there

labs want to create products that do not harm. so they are not exactly there to poison animals on purpose.

*they instead try it on one animal. and if thats not harmful then they expand to multiple animals
they dont just poison 1000 animals in one go without pre-testing on less.
and if they see it does poison them.. they stop..
yep if something is really harmful and will cause suffering.. they know with just the first or first dozen

so the suffering rate is like 1-12.. not 1000-1million

I'm okay with animal testing because you need to look at the alternative and the greater good. For every one animal that a life saving drug could be tested on, how many human lives could be saved? And for the COVID vaccine, could you not humanely use animals to test it? Does it require vivisection?

What are your views on animal testing with regards the covid vaccine?

Vivisection is perhaps the wickedest form of animal cruelty. An animal dies in a British lab every eight seconds, often in horrifying circumstances. Rabbits have chemicals poured into their eyes and are then left to endure weeks of agony. Animals are injected in their brains and faces, dipped in hot water and subjected to electric shocks. Pregnant sheep and their unborn lambs get surgically mutilated, partially suffocated and then killed.

Ahead of the Iraq war, scientists sought to find out what happens to a wounded creature who receives further wounds. To do this, they attacked pigs. One of the medics explained: “My pig? They shot him in the face with a 9mm pistol, and then six times with an AK-47 and then twice with a 12-gauge shotgun. And then he was set on fire.” Finally, after a 15-hour ordeal, the pig died.

It is supreme human arrogance to think that we can inflict this torture on animals in labs and slaughterhouses without it coming back to bite us. This year, we saw again that it does.

Factory farms, slaughterhouses, vivisection laboratories and all these other sites need to be closed for good. We should only keep a few standing as monuments for future generations to visit and shake their heads at how cruel and stupid we were before we woke up.

You might argue that the coronavirus pandemic is so serious that in just this exceptional case it is okay to exploit animals, for the greater good. And after all, those experiments are done now.

But the “just this once” argument never ends. Countless meat-eaters say they know it’s wrong to eat meat and they have even started to eat a bit less — but what comfort is that to the animals they do eat? More than 70 billion land animals are still slaughtered each year.

I won’t be accepting the vaccine. After what has been done to so many defenceless animals, it feels wrong to me. When I say it’s time to stop exploiting animals, I really mean it.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivisection

     
    -The act or practice of cutting into or otherwise injuring living animals for the purpose of scientific research.
   
    -Dissection of a living body; the practice of anatomizing alive, or of experimenting upon living animals, for the purpose of investigating some physiological function or pathological process which cannot well be otherwise determined
   
    -The dissection of an animal while alive, for the purpose of making physiological investigations.