create new wallet on airgapped electrum with ledger seed

dkbit98

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:55:12 AM

Is it possible to create a new wallet on electrum with a ledger seed? Electrum runs on tails on an air gapped ubuntu box. Is this a good guide? https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/ Things to watch out for?

I would never do that if I was in your position
You never know how ledger generated seed phrase or if they have some hidden code, since they are closed source black box device.
It's much safer to generate your own seed words, and you can do it fully offline, and even with dices if you want to do it manually.
After generating new seed phrase you can send all coins from old ledger to newly generated addresses.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: 22bits on June 14, 2023, 02:38:41 AM

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since the recovery service does not pose a danger

I think there was speculation that even those not using the recovery service would be subject to some security concerns, https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2023/05/17/ledger-nano-x-possible-security-issues/

I hope you were able to solve your problem and send your coins safely.
I read the article quickly, and they did not mention any points related to some security concerns, but rather they are all doubts that the service may not be safe in the future, and therefore the recommendation to think about an alternative, starting from now.

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While most likely the vast majority of those doubts in the current state of affairs are not true, they will continue to remain forever if the code continues to be non-transparent.

These articles come with the wording that Ledger Recovery is a hot topic and will bring more traffic, so do not rely on them as sources of information and always do your own research.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: 22bits on June 14, 2023, 02:38:41 AM

I will try electrum with the existing ledger with old firmware, the firmware is not all that old.

You should haven no problems accessing your Ledger wallet via Electrum without updating the firmware provided it is fairly recent.

Download and verify Electrum, connect and unlock your Ledger, navigate to the bitcoin app, open Electrum, create a new wallet, choose standard wallet, then hardware device, and it should scan and pick up your Ledger no problem. Once you are in to your Ledger wallet via Electrum, you can send all the coins out to your new airgapped Electrum wallet.

If that fails, then follow nc50lc's advice above to import your seed phrase to an airgapped Electrum wallet and then send all the coins to a newly created airgapped Electrum wallet.

nc50lc

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:47:42 PM

So as I explain above part of the difficulty is in doing the transfer. AFAIK to transfer from ledger I must upgrade firmware, which I prefer not to do.

This is how to achieve that:
Create a new wallet with your Ledger's seed phrase on the same Air-Gap machine, then create a watching-only copy on an online PC.
Create a new wallet with a new seed phrase on your Air-Gap machine, create an online watching-only copy of this as well.
Transfer the bitcoins from the restored (Ledger) Electrum wallet to the new cold-storage Electrum wallet.

If you don't know how to spend using the air-gap/watching-only pair, follow this guide: https://bitcoinelectrum.com/creating-a-cold-storage-wallet-in-electrum/

22bits

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Quote

since the recovery service does not pose a danger

I think there was speculation that even those not using the recovery service would be subject to some security concerns, https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2023/05/17/ledger-nano-x-possible-security-issues/

I will try electrum with the existing ledger with old firmware, the firmware is not all that old.

The reason to update the firmware was that ledger prevented doing any transfers with old firmware, forcing the upgrade.

Yamane_Keto

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:46:06 PM

As far as the as what I might do:
1.) Try to see if I can use the ledger with the old firmware on electrum.
or 2.) go to the air gapped computer and create a new wallet from the ledger seed.

your problem is about front-end software, even if the firmware is old, don't worry.

I do not know how old your firmware is, but this post is for Firmware 1.0.0 https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/m4pk7q/successful_recovery_of_btc_from_a_hw1_ledger/, and I do not know why you do not want to update the firmware, since the recovery service does not pose a danger to you if your goal is to move to a new wallet, but nevertheless, using old firmware on electrum is enough to solve your problem.
For ETH I think MyCrypto (NEW) will work fine.

Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:47:42 PM

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Create your airgap wallet and create a new wallet and transfer your Bitcoin there, because importing a wallet alone doesn't increase the security of your wallet. Leave your Ledger device including the seed phrase.

So as I explain above part of the difficulty is in doing the transfer. AFAIK to transfer from ledger I must upgrade firmware, which I prefer not to do.

No, you don't need that.at least for now.

22bits

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Create your airgap wallet and create a new wallet and transfer your Bitcoin there, because importing a wallet alone doesn't increase the security of your wallet. Leave your Ledger device including the seed phrase.

So as I explain above part of the difficulty is in doing the transfer. AFAIK to transfer from ledger I must upgrade firmware, which I prefer not to do.

22bits

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I don't know what exactly do you want to achieve if the seed is generated from the ledger and you are going to import it to Electrum you already compromise your wallet unless you are planning something.

The guide you provided above doesn't have an air-gapped Ubuntu box or do you mean you are planning to use the seed phrase from the ledger and restore it into the Electrum wallet on Ubuntu OS?

So I should explain a bit more. I have an existing ledger device and all is working OK. What is really annoying is that if and when I go to access the device to like send something off it the ledger system will force me to upgrade the firmware. I really don't want to upgrade firmware any more. So that is the motivation.

As far as the as what I might do:
1.) Try to see if I can use the ledger with the old firmware on electrum.
or 2.) go to the air gapped computer and create a new wallet from the ledger seed.

sheenshane

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:55:12 AM

Is it possible to create a new wallet on electrum with a ledger seed? Electrum runs on tails on an air gapped ubuntu box.
Is this a good guide? https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/ Things to watch out for?

Yes, I think there's nothing wrong with that guide and upon reading it, it's a well-said and a good guide.
We know the issue about Ledger if this is your purpose of importing seed to Electrum. But why?
Instead of generating a new seed and creating a new wallet in a fully air-gapped wallet because I worried about the comment above. Yes, it could be your seed phrase is on Ledger's eyes or it has on their database.

Create your airgap wallet and create a new wallet and transfer your Bitcoin there, because importing a wallet alone doesn't increase the security of your wallet. Leave your Ledger device including the seed phrase.

BitMaxz

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:55:12 AM

Is it possible to create a new wallet on electrum with a ledger seed?

Yes, you can create a new wallet using the seed phrase generated from the ledger wallet plus the passphrase but it's a BIP39 seed type.

Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:55:12 AM

Electrum runs on tails on an air-gapped Ubuntu box. Is this a good guide? https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/ Things to watch out for?

I don't know what exactly do you want to achieve if the seed is generated from the ledger and you are going to import it to Electrum you already compromise your wallet unless you are planning something.

The guide you provided above doesn't have an air-gapped Ubuntu box or do you mean you are planning to use the seed phrase from the ledger and restore it into the Electrum wallet on Ubuntu OS?

For me it's not safe it would be better to generate a new wallet and write them down on a piece of paper and do it offline or better burn Tails OS you can follow this guide below

- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tutorial-how-to-make-a-cold-storage-bitcoin-wallet-with-tailsos-and-usb-flash-5354489

Just make sure to install the latest Electrum and don't forget to verify it and then send all your funds to your new wallet.

nc50lc

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Quote from: 22bits on June 13, 2023, 08:55:12 AM

Is this a good guide?
-snip-
Things to watch out for?

The guide has the necessary steps on how to import a BIP39 seed to Electrum (it's good given that you'll do it in an air-gap machine),
but the "Detect Existing Accounts" option wont work in offline Electrum so you'll have to manually set the script type and derivation path.
If you have multiple accounts with different address type in your Ledger, you'll have to restore those as new separate wallets in Electrum.

One issue I can find here is since you'll use your seed phrase that's generated by Ledger, you won't be sure that it's now out of Ledger's eyes.
You should instead create a new seed in the same air-gap setup and send all of your Bitcoin there.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/

Connecting hardware wallet to Electrum does not compromise any security. Even if the computer which you connect your device is infected with malware your keys will remain secure in the hardware wallet.

Hardware wallets are secure, but do not believe that they are completely safe. Learn more about clipboard malware. Clipboard malware can change receivers address to a hackers address. That is why you need to check and recheck the receiver address before broadcasting any transaction.

Be it cold or hot wallet, be careful of malware and hack.

Quote from: https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/

If you want to use your funds immediately then for the time being you can use software wallet. But do so at your own risk.

If you have high amount of money there, you can setup a wallet airgapped device instead. Like this one: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

22bits

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Is it possible to create a new wallet on electrum with a ledger seed? Electrum runs on tails on an air gapped ubuntu box. Is this a good guide? https://coinguides.org/import-ledger-trezor-seed-electrum/ Things to watch out for?

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