Topic: Crypto and Family Separation (Read 2859 times)
the old saying is "remember to cover your assets"
Check your country status on bitcoin. Is it legal firstly if yes then there would be a share with the person depending upon the ratio agreed or as per your country norms. Since in few places its not legal then there cannot be any right on it. Agreeing mutually is the best option if it can work out in your case.
Bitcoin is not recognized by governments as a currency. Therefore it is not an asset and is not subject to division upon divorce. I think it's right. The opportunity to earn bitcoins is at all and so they should not be regarded as jointly acquired property. Everyone should be their own expense.
You should be clear which country you are referring to. In the USA, "Virtual Currency Is Treated as Property", and thus very much subject to division. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-virtual-currency-guidance
Bitcoin is not recognized by governments as a currency. Therefore it is not an asset and is not subject to division upon divorce. I think it's right. The opportunity to earn bitcoins is at all and so they should not be regarded as jointly acquired property. Everyone should be their own expense.
I don't understand what the problem is. Any division of property is made on the basis of the submitted documents. Who can provide information on the existence and balance of your account in bitcoins? These funds are not subject to division. Access to them is the only one who knows where they are. You must decide for yourself how much you are willing to give his wife and children. Can not give anything. This is not a violation of the law.
Presumably most people bought with a bank account and spouses talk to each other. The likelihood is that your beloved knows you bought some bitcoin and can point to when you bought it which can then be linked to a transaction.
You can of course claim that your coins were tragically lost in a hardware failure. Courts have heard every excuse in the book. You may well get away with it but expect to be put under some major pressure.
If submitting your financial records was optional then non one would get anything. If you lie during the process and it's discovered then expect plenty of legal unpleasantness.
Legally, that would be the right thing to do.
But since BTC isn't regulated, then no one can keep you accountable for that.
But since BTC isn't regulated, then no one can keep you accountable for that.
I don't understand what the problem is. Any division of property is made on the basis of the submitted documents. Who can provide information on the existence and balance of your account in bitcoins? These funds are not subject to division. Access to them is the only one who knows where they are. You must decide for yourself how much you are willing to give his wife and children. Can not give anything. This is not a violation of the law.
If the law dictates anyone should follow. There is no other way to go but to let go half of it. And if in better terms you can agree to put 25% for educational plan for your children that a good sign. You don't have to worry much as you posted it this few months backs bitcoin is so much cheaper and if you hold the other half, isn't this a sign that the fund that you think gone just back double because of increasing price.
I don't know what I would do if I was in your position but this law is utter rubbish. 50% of all your financial assets is theft. If females are truly 'independent' and 'strong' there shouldn't be this kind of law. Same goes for the kids. In the US men can be stripped off their children way too easy. If I lived in the US, I wouldn't even bother marrying which is sad because eventually I would like to get married.
You don't have to split the bitcoins 50-50. You have to split overall assets 50-50. If you can give her more non-bitcoin assets, you can keep more of your bitcoin assets.
Interesting one, that.
I suppose it depends on how much in the dark you've kept your beloved. If you were jumping up and down with excitement for years on end he or she is going to be rather more interested in getting their hands on it.
If you mainly keep your gob shut and have the occasional moan about these weird strings of numbers you can't figure out how to get rid of, your post split future will be all the brighter. They can keep the yacht and feel like they got a deal.
Well i guess this goes on how is your statues in life. Probably most single would have all of of there savings like me. But i guess it would be better to atleast share it with own family for them have some investing on there own. I know families can easily beg or ask for money but thats the risk in having a family but also risk in bitcoin. You can make another income resource once your family can at least manage there own in the crypto world.
You don't have to split the bitcoins 50-50. You have to split overall assets 50-50. If you can give her more non-bitcoin assets, you can keep more of your bitcoin assets.
Interesting one, that.
I suppose it depends on how much in the dark you've kept your beloved. If you were jumping up and down with excitement for years on end he or she is going to be rather more interested in getting their hands on it.
If you mainly keep your gob shut and have the occasional moan about these weird strings of numbers you can't figure out how to get rid of, your post split future will be all the brighter. They can keep the yacht and feel like they got a deal.
You don't have to split the bitcoins 50-50. You have to split overall assets 50-50. If you can give her more non-bitcoin assets, you can keep more of your bitcoin assets.
Giving 50% of my assets with btc is going to be hard for me. Just give her all your cash but don't give her the cryptocurrencies. You're going to regret it one day if you do that.
If you are right with law you are supposed to give her 50%, I agree that crypto is worth money, and therefore an asset. You are supposed to declare 100% of your assets in the divorce proceeding and i think it is not quite fair.
If you don't declare all of your assets during the settlement, and it well and truly doesn't matter what they are, then more than likely you'll be breaking the law where you are.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
Agreed. If you are in the U.S., the IRS can tax what you have as an asset. Therefore it is legally recognized. Therefore, tell your attorney and let him or her handle the rest.
The law on this case is really clear. Your wife must have 50% of your Bitcoin holdings. Of course, you can negotiate with her on the basis that you are the one who can manage that asset well and it is on the interest of all parties that it can remain on your hands. On my opinion, that would be the best option.
Now, I am sure that your wife will understand on the basis that what you are doing is actually benefiting the future of your children and that proceeds from this Bitcoin asset will be utilized for the children's needs. It is all a matter of talking well and both sides having a cool head.
Good luck on your new life, by the way. I am sure that a better life is planned for you ahead.
Now, I am sure that your wife will understand on the basis that what you are doing is actually benefiting the future of your children and that proceeds from this Bitcoin asset will be utilized for the children's needs. It is all a matter of talking well and both sides having a cool head.
Good luck on your new life, by the way. I am sure that a better life is planned for you ahead.
Thanks - yeah the taking the kids and dragging me through the dirt over the last 3 months hasn't been a lot of fun. Not to get in to the whole story, but no she doesn't have a very valid case. She's got some good lies. Though it takes 2 to fall out so I'm ok taking 50% of the blame.
I'd love for things to be done amicably but she's chosen a different path unfortunately...
Sorry to be cynical, but she sounds like a typical American woman. Watch out for false allegations of abuse, child neglect, etc. - these systems are heavily biased in women's favor. Often all it takes to get you screwed is her making an unsubstantiated claim. Unfortunately, if she goes that route, you will be "guilty until proven innocent". Remember to shoot video if there is ever any kind of confrontation, as she may try to claim that she "felt threatened".
You might be able to save yourself money and time with lawyers if you offer her a monetary settlement in exchange for dropping her case. Don't negotiate with her lawyer directly however.
I would advise you to worry less about the law and think about how your wife has treated you and the family. Often times wives will get greedy and just try to get as much of your assets as they can, and then spend it on their new man instead of the kids. If she is taking the kids away, you need to make sure you will get to spend time with them. After a year or two you will see the importance of your rights as a father. Since she has hired a lawyer it likely means she will try to get everything in her favor,
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids.
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids.
Hoepfully OPs separation will be amicable but if not you make some great points.
Maybe OP can say he lost it when exchange went down? Or say you lost it another way by getting scammed
You definitely want to protect yourself in the event the wife is vindictive.
A woman is taking your kids from you dude that's messed but maybe it was the right thing I don't know the specifics
Thanks - yeah the taking the kids and dragging me through the dirt over the last 3 months hasn't been a lot of fun. Not to get in to the whole story, but no she doesn't have a very valid case. She's got some good lies. Though it takes 2 to fall out so I'm ok taking 50% of the blame.
I'd love for things to be done amicably but she's chosen a different path unfortunately...
I would advise you to worry less about the law and think about how your wife has treated you and the family. Often times wives will get greedy and just try to get as much of your assets as they can, and then spend it on their new man instead of the kids. If she is taking the kids away, you need to make sure you will get to spend time with them. After a year or two you will see the importance of your rights as a father. Since she has hired a lawyer it likely means she will try to get everything in her favor,
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids.
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids.
Hoepfully OPs separation will be amicable but if not you make some great points.
Maybe OP can say he lost it when exchange went down? Or say you lost it another way by getting scammed
You definitely want to protect yourself in the event the wife is vindictive.
A woman is taking your kids from you dude that's messed but maybe it was the right thing I don't know the specifics
I would advise you to worry less about the law and think about how your wife has treated you and the family. Often times wives will get greedy and just try to get as much of your assets as they can, and then spend it on their new man instead of the kids. If she is taking the kids away, you need to make sure you will get to spend time with them. After a year or two you will see the importance of your rights as a father. Since she has hired a lawyer it likely means she will try to get everything in her favor,
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids. I know it doesn't sound fair, but it's just the way things happen.
Of course if she is a good person she deserves to have enough money to live comfortably and care for your children.
I don't think bitcoin is a long term asset for the next generation. It will likely be replaced with a better crypto in the next 20 years.
Often what happens is the man holds the money hostage and the woman holds the children hostage. So the coin might be your negotiating leverage to see your kids. I know it doesn't sound fair, but it's just the way things happen.
Of course if she is a good person she deserves to have enough money to live comfortably and care for your children.
I don't think bitcoin is a long term asset for the next generation. It will likely be replaced with a better crypto in the next 20 years.
Got the lawyer sorted 
But yes my number one concern is my daughters and if I can keep some of my coins I can hopefully put something aside for them that I know is going to them.
Thanks for all the advice / support
But yes my number one concern is my daughters and if I can keep some of my coins I can hopefully put something aside for them that I know is going to them.
Thanks for all the advice / support
I guess there is also another way to look at this.
Try setting a good example for your daughters. You will be able to look them in the eyes one day telling them the truth that you manned up and did the right thing.
Maybe, just maybe your example can help them set higher standards for whom they wish to spend their lives with in the future.
To you shes the ex, to your girls shes mommy...
Try setting a good example for your daughters. You will be able to look them in the eyes one day telling them the truth that you manned up and did the right thing.
Maybe, just maybe your example can help them set higher standards for whom they wish to spend their lives with in the future.
To you shes the ex, to your girls shes mommy...
If you don't declare all of your assets during the settlement, and it well and truly doesn't matter what they are, then more than likely you'll be breaking the law where you are.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
Right. First of all it depends on the circumstances, if his wife left him (to live with another guy for instance) and it wasn't his fault, he shouldn't share with her. That's common sense.The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
Now, if you have the coins and did not exchange to fiat, you're untouchable. There's no proof you own any and even if she says so, you can deny it. It's her word against yours.
If you want to share, you can give her any number you like, because they won't be able to prove you own more than you're declaring.
I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.
Find a lawyer. No one here knows anything.
The value at the time of separation is in the past. The value at the time of the financial settlement is what they're going to look at.
Thanks for the advice guys. Rationality hasn't been one of the words I'd have used so far 
I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.
Cheers
I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.
Cheers
That was a hard decision but anyway good luck on your new life man. And always take care of your kids.
Thanks for the advice guys. Rationality hasn't been one of the words I'd have used so far
I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.
Cheers
I get the 50 / 50 thing. I guess you just need to decide a value on those assets and I imagine that would be the value of what you had at time of separation. i.e. she can't take profits I've made since she left, least I think that's how it works here.
Cheers
Well, I'm not sure, you can be right, but I'm not convinced about it yet.
"It's worth money" is something that can generate some discussion about. Anything tradeable that people have interest can be worth money, physical or virtual. Using the example I have an online game account with many valuable items that people in real life would like to buy for fiat, should I declare my game account? And must I share my game items with the divorced woman?
And if I have Bitcoins (not declared), must I share it with the divorced woman?
"It's worth money" is something that can generate some discussion about. Anything tradeable that people have interest can be worth money, physical or virtual. Using the example I have an online game account with many valuable items that people in real life would like to buy for fiat, should I declare my game account? And must I share my game items with the divorced woman?
And if I have Bitcoins (not declared), must I share it with the divorced woman?
You should put a value to it and see if your wife can agree to it.
She will probably take the sofa and allow you to keep your game account. Divorces are messy, but I do suppose your partner will take rational decisions.
I agree that crypto is worth money, and therefore an asset. Technically, you are supposed to declare 100% of your assets in the divorce proceedings. This is one of the reasons I will probably never get married...
However, I'm not sure exactly how this would be enforceable. It would be pretty easy to "lose" your private key (encrypt it somewhere). Even that may be a little extreme, as it's not like they are going to come in and confiscate all your possessions and scrub your hard drives looking for cryptocurrencies.
Since she knows you own cryptocurrencies, you could give her a percentage smaller than 50%... say 10% to 25% so that it doesn't cost you more in legal fees, since she is surely to try and come after at least some crypto if she knows you have it. If she doesn't know too much about how successful you have been with crypto or didn't follow it too closely, then she might think 10% to 25% is actually 50% and not cause any trouble.
In summary, technically you are supposed to give her 50%, but you could probably get away with not giving her 50%. It is likely illegal, but the chances of getting caught and/or enforced are probably slim to none.
However, I'm not sure exactly how this would be enforceable. It would be pretty easy to "lose" your private key (encrypt it somewhere). Even that may be a little extreme, as it's not like they are going to come in and confiscate all your possessions and scrub your hard drives looking for cryptocurrencies.
Since she knows you own cryptocurrencies, you could give her a percentage smaller than 50%... say 10% to 25% so that it doesn't cost you more in legal fees, since she is surely to try and come after at least some crypto if she knows you have it. If she doesn't know too much about how successful you have been with crypto or didn't follow it too closely, then she might think 10% to 25% is actually 50% and not cause any trouble.
In summary, technically you are supposed to give her 50%, but you could probably get away with not giving her 50%. It is likely illegal, but the chances of getting caught and/or enforced are probably slim to none.
Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
Wrong. It's worth money, therefore it must be declared.
It doesn't matter what you have. If you had 1 million dollars' worth of WWE memorabilia that's a saleable asset. It's not a currency either.
Well, I'm not sure, you can be right, but I'm not convinced about it yet.
"It's worth money" is something that can generate some discussion about. Anything tradeable that people have interest can be worth money, physical or virtual. Using the example I have an online game account with many valuable items that people in real life would like to buy for fiat, should I declare my game account? And must I share my game items with the divorced woman?
And if I have Bitcoins (not declared), must I share it with the divorced woman?
Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
Wrong. It's worth money, therefore it must be declared.
It doesn't matter what you have. If you had 1 million dollars' worth of WWE memorabilia that's a saleable asset. It's not a currency either.
I'll just toss a thought out here:
If you have most of your bitcoin in cold storage and you lose your passphrase, then technically you no longer have it. I suppose you could provide the address where that bitcoin is located so it can be monitored by your wife or her lawyer. Say 5 or 10 years down the road when the value is much higher you suddenly remember or find the passphrase then you can give her 50%.
If you have most of your bitcoin in cold storage and you lose your passphrase, then technically you no longer have it. I suppose you could provide the address where that bitcoin is located so it can be monitored by your wife or her lawyer. Say 5 or 10 years down the road when the value is much higher you suddenly remember or find the passphrase then you can give her 50%.
Reading from what others have commented, I still feel since divorce is a legal proceeding, then everything that needs to be shared by the splitting couple must have legal back otherwise its does not hold. And there are several court cases even in the USA that does not recognise bitcoin as a form of money and relying on that precedence if the law of a particular country does not accepts bitcoin then OP does not owe her any shit.
It is very simple that if you wife knows about cryptocurrency and its functions then you can just give her share which is 50% but it includes your children share also so you can give 25% out of 50% of that share to her and keep balance 25% of share on a secure wallet for future of your child, so like this you can secure your children future and clear your wife offer also.
Probably Bitcoin isn't regulamented there, I believe Bitcoin or any other Crypto-Currency doesn't really exist for the laws of the country.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
It could be considered a non real currency, like the money people have in online game accounts and when people get divorced they don't share 50% of game's money... I think you don't need to give any satoshi to your wife if you don't want, but you need to confirm it with your attorney.
If you don't declare all of your assets during the settlement, and it well and truly doesn't matter what they are, then more than likely you'll be breaking the law where you are.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances.
Utter rubbish. Bitcoiners need to let go of the idea that they're immune from conventional legalities or it'll bite them badly eventually.
Wondered if anyone might be able to offer some advice here.
I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.
The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.
Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.
Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received
The issue of giving your ex certain percentage of your assets is if those assets are recognizable by law because I am sure if you are trading in cocaine and your ex knew about it, she won't ask for some powder as a form of settlement the same thing with bitcoin. If the law does not recognise it in your place of abode, then it does not exist in the legal sense and what does not exist, cannot be shared under any circumstances. I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.
The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.
Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.
Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received
The legally correct thing to do (based on the law in most countries) would be to give your ex 50% of all assets, including your crypto stash.
If it was some other asset, you could have (with your wife's concurrence) transferred them to a trust in the name of your children. With crypto, I am not so sure.
If it was some other asset, you could have (with your wife's concurrence) transferred them to a trust in the name of your children. With crypto, I am not so sure.
Wondered if anyone might be able to offer some advice here.
I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.
The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.
Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.
Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received
I have some coins in a couple of formats / BTC + some alts. I'm currently separating with my wife, who has also taken our 2 young girls. That's all getting worked out through an annoyingly messy (unnecessary, IMO) dialogue between lawyers.
The question I have is; I worked for BTC back in 2103, when it started to drop I stopped getting paid via BTC but continued to trade. I managed to make, mostly, good decisions and have increased what I had. I spent some taking my family on holiday etc, made those back so that aspect has been pretty good. I'm wondering now the best way of protecting those assets as I'd prefer to spend what I have on securing my future a bit and making it possible to support my kids, whether that's now or in the future.
Basically - it'd be my preference not to give my ex 50% now when I think I could use them more wisely to benefit myself and my children.
Sorry I don't know if that's a bit vague but any advice as to the best procedure would be greatly received
Jump to: