Crypto friendly countries, where and how to exchange your crypto with 0 taxes

charlscook

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Quote from: Mbitr on March 16, 2021, 10:44:37 AM

hi,
there is some country where tax-free. you can exchange there--

Portugal. Portugal is a 'tax-free' country for cryptocurrency investors. ...
Malta. The Block-chain island of Malta is also tax free for bitcoin and cryptocurrency investors. ...
Germany. ...
Spain. ...
Estonia. ...
Singapore. ...
Malaysia. ...
Switzerland.

Spain is most certainly NOT ‘tax free’ in regards to crypto - you will generally need to pay Capital Gains Tax
https://news.bitcoin.com/spain-tax-cryptoccurrency/

sorry for these information it is my mistake. really i am very sorry

Mbitr

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on March 19, 2021, 02:26:19 PM

Quote from: Mbitr on March 16, 2021, 10:44:37 AM

<…>

Hear, Hear.

It’s pretty messy in Spain right now, and though the general situation points to paying somewhere between 19% and 23% on the gains made upon selling (depending on the quantity of the gains), many people are rather fearsome of having an inspection from Hacienda (the IRS over there), having to justify exactly how and when they made every single satoshi that is sold, and that is not something everybody keeps a proper record of.
Theoretically, one should even declare the gains or loses made when purchasing one crypto with another, regardless of whether they were later converted to fiat.

There seems to be a new set of rules and regulations brewing now, which may turn out to be just some minor adjustments, whilst a common EU background in drafted and deployed.

I often wonder what percentage of hodlers there are really hodlers due to principal, and not to fear of Hacienda …

Too true mate !
I honestly think the more bitcoin/ crypto is becoming mass adopted the more the tax people are becoming interested. Any country which thinks they can tax a ‘ new ‘industry - they will . They are not going to let people earn money without having their share . It’s a double edged sword. We as bitcoiners want mass adoption , BUT we will unfortunately come into the radar of the tax authorities and they WILL eventually take their share . It’s a question I’ve been asking myself over the last few months - whether to get out now ?

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Quote from: Mbitr on March 16, 2021, 10:44:37 AM

<…>

Hear, Hear.

It’s pretty messy in Spain right now, and though the general situation points to paying somewhere between 19% and 23% on the gains made upon selling (depending on the quantity of the gains), many people are rather fearsome of having an inspection from Hacienda (the IRS over there), having to justify exactly how and when they made every single satoshi that is sold, and that is not something everybody keeps a proper record of.
Theoretically, one should even declare the gains or loses made when purchasing one crypto with another, regardless of whether they were later converted to fiat.

There seems to be a new set of rules and regulations brewing now, which may turn out to be just some minor adjustments, whilst a common EU background in drafted and deployed.

I often wonder what percentage of hodlers there are really hodlers due to principal, and not to fear of Hacienda …

Mahanton

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Quote from: Poker Player on January 12, 2021, 04:11:23 PM

How much are we talking about? It's not the same to want to change $10,000 as it is to change $1,000,000.

Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

To make things legal if you want to exchange large amouts you would need to move to the country you are exchanging the bitcoins in. You should get the tax residence there. Wanting to go to another country, exchange your bitcons for fiat and transfer them by bank transfer to your country doesn't seem very smart at first sight. If you live in a developed country the most likely scenario is that your bank will inform your IRS or equivalent about all the transfers that surpass $3,000.

Which basically means that there's no way that for you to hide up yourself on trying not to pay up those taxes because once you do touch out with those typical centralized transactions specially on bank
transfers then you would really be traced up and would really be sued up that you do need to pay up your responsibility or else then you would really be facing up some problems.
With just my own opinion and basic understanding about taxes then its really hard to make out conversions specially with big amounts involved.Its impossible when
making in between crypto to fiat.

Mbitr

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Quote from: ?? on ??

hi,
there is some country where tax-free. you can exchange there--

Portugal. Portugal is a 'tax-free' country for cryptocurrency investors. ...
Malta. The Block-chain island of Malta is also tax free for bitcoin and cryptocurrency investors. ...
Germany. ...
Spain. ...
Estonia. ...
Singapore. ...
Malaysia. ...
Switzerland.

Spain is most certainly NOT ‘tax free’ in regards to crypto - you will generally need to pay Capital Gains Tax
https://news.bitcoin.com/spain-tax-cryptoccurrency/

Streets 2.0

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If you take a close look at the global trends in the field of cryptocurrency and investments, you can see the second wave of growth. Now it is due to the infusion of large capital, including state capital. Now there will be more players in the market with large shares, which means it will change. The only thing that will not change is the desire for legal cashing, so such countries will benefit where the legislation is ready to accept cryptocurrency and not tax its holders or keep its rate very low.

marcbitcoins

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Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

If you are a US taxpayer, you can’t. You can stash your funds in bitcoin, hold them, but when you convert into fiat, there will be a trace (including the transfer transactions). All exchangers should report to the IRS (KYC/AML & BSA compliances). If you have friends in these crypto-friendly countries then maybe they can help you to evade taxes but I think the chances are small.

aoluain

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Quote from: Lucius on January 26, 2021, 07:15:00 AM

Quote from: aoluain on January 26, 2021, 04:15:52 AM

I dont follow you Lucius, I'm looking at your post and I'm thinking, thats what I posted anyway.
The OP isnt going to be earning Bitcoin, he has it for a number of years and wants it in FIAT

You are referring to VAT in your post, and what does that have to do with the fact that the OP wants to sell its BTC for fiat and not pay (or pay the minimum tax)? https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/what-is-vat_en

VAT is something that is paid for goods and services, for example if you buy a TV you have to pay a certain price consisting of the basic price + VAT, which means that the basic amount is given to the seller, while VAT goes to the state treasury.

The OP definitely has the option to cash out without any tax, but there must forget about any bank transactions or any evidence that can later serve his tax office to ask him the question of the origin of that BTC.

yes of course, apologies for any confusion caused, There are different types of TAX

VAT - Value added TAX - payable as a percentage on top of goods and services value

Capital Gains TAX - Percentage of TAX payable profits earned on investments for example.

ethereumhunter

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I suggest you not withdraw all of your bitcoin at once because that can make your bank suspicious and investigate your account. It is better to withdraw for less than $1,000 in a week or $5,000 in a month not to trigger the alarm to sound. Related to the tax, if you withdraw in a small or medium amount, your tax will not be bigger, and you can enjoy your money.

But paying tax is necessary for the country because that can be the country's income and help the economy. So it is normal if you should pay the tax to send the money.

Lucius

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Quote from: aoluain on January 26, 2021, 04:15:52 AM

I dont follow you Lucius, I'm looking at your post and I'm thinking, thats what I posted anyway.
The OP isnt going to be earning Bitcoin, he has it for a number of years and wants it in FIAT

You are referring to VAT in your post, and what does that have to do with the fact that the OP wants to sell its BTC for fiat and not pay (or pay the minimum tax)? https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/what-is-vat_en

VAT is something that is paid for goods and services, for example if you buy a TV you have to pay a certain price consisting of the basic price + VAT, which means that the basic amount is given to the seller, while VAT goes to the state treasury.

The OP definitely has the option to cash out without any tax, but there must forget about any bank transactions or any evidence that can later serve his tax office to ask him the question of the origin of that BTC.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: aoluain on January 26, 2021, 04:15:52 AM

Someone pointed this out to me recently too, I'm amazed by that. Does that mean as a U.S
citizen living abroad if you are liable to pay tax locally and to the U.S?

I'm not a tax expert, but my understanding is that if the other country has an agreement with the U.S., then you can deduct the taxes paid to the other country from the U.S. taxes you owe.

For example: https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tips/how-are-taxes-assessed-for-u-s-citizens-working-in-canada-347

aoluain

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Quote from: Lucius on January 24, 2021, 07:18:36 AM

Quote from: aoluain on January 17, 2021, 08:45:53 PM

Are you an EU citizen? if yes then there are a few options where Crypto is TAX FREE.

You mix two things that have nothing to do with each other - VAT (value added tax) is something that is paid throughout the EU for all products and services, and the percentage depends on each country. When it comes to Germany, they only passed a law according to which no additional tax (VAT + extra tax) is paid on payments with BTC.

As for income tax, their law says that if you buy a crypto and keep it for at least 1 year, you can sell it without paying any tax - although someone mentioned that the crypto must be kept in a custodial wallet.

As for Portugal and their decision regarding the crypto tax :

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/09/19/portugal-tax-authorities-clarify-that-buying-or-selling-cryptocurrency-is-tax-free/

Portugal has taken the opposite tack: it made clear that buying or selling cryptocurrencies would not be subject to capital gain taxes or value-added tax (VAT). The PTA previously clarified in 2016 that buying or selling cryptocurrency in Portugal would not be considered a taxable event which means that it’s not subject to tax. There are exceptions: the receipt of cryptocurrency in exchange for goods or services doesn’t change the tax treatment of the original transaction, and taxpayers who deal in cryptocurrency as a professional or business activity are still subject to some taxes.

I dont follow you Lucius, I'm looking at your post and I'm thinking, thats what I posted anyway.
The OP isnt going to be earning Bitcoin, he has it for a number of years and wants it in FIAT

Quote from: odolvlobo on January 24, 2021, 05:54:30 PM

FYI, if you are a resident or citizen of U.S.A, then you are required to pay taxes on capital gains, regardless of where you spend or sell your bitcoins.

Someone pointed this out to me recently too, I'm amazed by that. Does that mean as a U.S
citizen living abroad if you are liable to pay tax locally and to the U.S?

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Kazadar on January 23, 2021, 10:28:45 PM

Spain should also have no tax on crypto iirc.

they don't have a specific tax framework for crypto. however, as with most countries, the spanish government says the current framework already applies: Spain's Tax Authority Sending Notices to 66,000 Cryptocurrency Owners

Quote

Sales of cryptocurrencies are subject to capital gains tax at a variable rate of between 19% and 23%, the publication detailed, noting that the higher rate applies to gains in excess of 50,000 euros ($54,594).

odolvlobo

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FYI, if you are a resident or citizen of U.S.A, then you are required to pay taxes on capital gains, regardless of where you spend or sell your bitcoins.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: Lucius on January 24, 2021, 07:18:36 AM

As for income tax, their law says that if you buy a crypto and keep it for at least 1 year, you can sell it without paying any tax - although someone mentioned that the crypto must be kept in a custodial wallet.

It might help to keep crypto in a custodial wallet for record purposes, but it's not a legal necessity. Thing is, if you hold crypto for more than a year and then sell it for profit, you don't need to report it at all since it's not taxable to begin with. You only need to proof that you held crypto for at least a year if the financial authorities come asking. For the moment it seems that the blockchain is proof is enough. (presumably you will also have to disclose the source of your coins, but thanks to AML5 this questioning already starts at the exchange level anyways)

Quote from: Lucius on January 24, 2021, 07:18:36 AM

As for Portugal and their decision regarding the crypto tax :

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/09/19/portugal-tax-authorities-clarify-that-buying-or-selling-cryptocurrency-is-tax-free/

Portugal has taken the opposite tack: it made clear that buying or selling cryptocurrencies would not be subject to capital gain taxes or value-added tax (VAT). The PTA previously clarified in 2016 that buying or selling cryptocurrency in Portugal would not be considered a taxable event which means that it’s not subject to tax. There are exceptions: the receipt of cryptocurrency in exchange for goods or services doesn’t change the tax treatment of the original transaction, and taxpayers who deal in cryptocurrency as a professional or business activity are still subject to some taxes.

That's again a different case from OP though. If you receive crypto as payment in exchange for goods or services (including mining!) it's taxable income based on the fiat exchange rate at the time, even in countries that don't tax trading profits.

buwaytress

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Actually, I have exchanged crypto to local currency in two of the countries listed. I'm actually not 100% sure of the legal requirements in one, but as far as I'm told (and I don't hide anything), you do pay taxes on income, or capital holdings, or savings, once converted.

In Malaysia I have enquired anyway, and it is the same (but if earned not locally, you don't owe taxes anyway since income earned abroad is not taxed).

Lucius

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Quote from: aoluain on January 17, 2021, 08:45:53 PM

Are you an EU citizen? if yes then there are a few options where Crypto is TAX FREE.

You mix two things that have nothing to do with each other - VAT (value added tax) is something that is paid throughout the EU for all products and services, and the percentage depends on each country. When it comes to Germany, they only passed a law according to which no additional tax (VAT + extra tax) is paid on payments with BTC.

As for income tax, their law says that if you buy a crypto and keep it for at least 1 year, you can sell it without paying any tax - although someone mentioned that the crypto must be kept in a custodial wallet.

As for Portugal and their decision regarding the crypto tax :

Quote from: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2019/09/19/portugal-tax-authorities-clarify-that-buying-or-selling-cryptocurrency-is-tax-free/

Portugal has taken the opposite tack: it made clear that buying or selling cryptocurrencies would not be subject to capital gain taxes or value-added tax (VAT). The PTA previously clarified in 2016 that buying or selling cryptocurrency in Portugal would not be considered a taxable event which means that it’s not subject to tax. There are exceptions: the receipt of cryptocurrency in exchange for goods or services doesn’t change the tax treatment of the original transaction, and taxpayers who deal in cryptocurrency as a professional or business activity are still subject to some taxes.

Kazadar

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Spain should also have no tax on crypto iirc.

YOSHIE

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As far as I know the laws set by the Singapore government against crypto taxation, especially Bitcoin, are not based on transactions carried out on trading exchanges.

The tax imposed by the Singapore government is based on the purchase of goods using bitcoin by consumers.

For example: you go to a mall, restaurant, etc., if you pay with Bitcoin it is taxed according to the law that has been set in Singapore, however, if you trade on a crypto exchange you do not pay taxes.

dansus021

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Quote from: Findingnemo on January 15, 2021, 02:30:29 PM

Crypto friendly =/= crypto tax free.

Every government is running on the tax collected from their citizens so if you are going to involve your bank account for the conversion then you are liable to pay the taxes as per your government rules, if not then its tax evading.

The smart way to avoid paying taxes even when you involve your bank account by means of p2p which is suitable for small amount not for huge amount but still its an evading ethically.

but maybe

i dont know about that country are but i do aggree with this

but here in indonesia i dont pay taxes for bitcoin and i usually withdraw it for my local bank and its fine Grin

aoluain

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Are you an EU citizen? if yes then there are a few options where Crypto is TAX FREE.

As an example:

1- Germany [Portugal is similar]

On February 27, 2018, the Federal Ministry of Finance (BMF) has clearly expressed its legal position on the VAT treatment of Bitcoins. Referring to the ECJ’s judgment, the tax offices will – from now on – have to treat transactions in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies as VAT exempt.

Source: https://www.winheller.com/en/banking-finance-and-insurance-law/bitcoin-trading/bitcoin-and-tax.html

If you are not an EU citizen you will have to apply for residency and be there for 12 months
before VAT exemption applies. As has already been mentioned transferring a substantial amount
of FIAT to your normal bank account could result in an investigation into possible money laundering.

Findingnemo

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Bitcoin = Financial freedom

Crypto friendly =/= crypto tax free.

Every government is running on the tax collected from their citizens so if you are going to involve your bank account for the conversion then you are liable to pay the taxes as per your government rules, if not then its tax evading.

The smart way to avoid paying taxes even when you involve your bank account by means of p2p which is suitable for small amount not for huge amount but still its an evading ethically.

Lucius

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Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

You don’t want to pay taxes, but at the same time you want to involve your bank in the whole thing? If it is a larger amount of money, each bank will ask you about the origin of the money or will automatically report it to the tax office if required by law. If you want 0% tax then you have to sell your BTC for cash in the form of a transaction in person or find an ATM that does not have KYC - or a physical store that deals with the sale/purchase of cryptocurrencies.

Of all these countries, you are missing one in which you can really sell significant amounts of crypto without paying any taxes, without being a resident of it or without using any documents Wink

jimmywh

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In my country we pay up to 53% in capital gains tax.

20%.... just pay your taxes man.

Lorence.xD

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If you do not want to pay for taxes, maybe tries a P2P trading where someone can buy your bitcoin at a given price point with cold hard cash, make sure that it will be a physical P2P trading so there will be no problem. I do not know much about crypto taxation because in my country there is hardly no tax even if we were to withdraw at banks.

Theb

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Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

Well you still won't get any kind of exemption even if you sold your cryptocurrencies to a tax exempted country, taxation simply doesn't work like that since the tax that will be applied to you is the one where you are currently residing in regardless whether you have sold your cryptocurrency internationally. The profit/capital gains you will have from that sale of crypto would still be taxed at 20%, actually you might just be risking yourself to a scam looking for a buyer online on a international country with you having little to no experience with dealing it. My advice is for you to just pay your tax as I don't see any way around it but try to look if you have some kind of tax exemption or lower rates for assets held over the year since several countries have lower rates on long-term held assets.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

you need to establish tax jurisdiction first---often a timely and difficult process, and one which usually requires that you establish residency. in malta for instance, that takes physical presence on the island for more than 183 days/year and also the general intent to reside there. they don't want people renting an empty house while living abroad and using malta solely as a tax shelter.

establishing residency in a second country for tax purposes also does not automatically remove your tax liability in your home country. that depends on the tax laws where you currently live and/or do business.

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Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

countries that are crypto friendly when it comes to paying income tax.
~ The Netherlands

Lol

Maybe you should explain what you call "crypto friendly". If you mean it's legal to earn money in crypto, and then sell it, then yes, it's a great country for crypto! But if you mean the income tax percentage, it's not that great: you pay either 37.1% or 49.5%. That's not just on crypto, it's on all income.

Quote from: Poker Player on January 12, 2021, 04:11:23 PM

Wanting to go to another country, exchange your bitcons for fiat and transfer them by bank transfer to your country doesn't seem very smart at first sight.

That screams "money laundering" indeed!

Poker Player

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How much are we talking about? It's not the same to want to change $10,000 as it is to change $1,000,000.

Quote from: Florin_BTC on January 12, 2021, 02:32:13 PM

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

To make things legal if you want to exchange large amouts you would need to move to the country you are exchanging the bitcoins in. You should get the tax residence there. Wanting to go to another country, exchange your bitcons for fiat and transfer them by bank transfer to your country doesn't seem very smart at first sight. If you live in a developed country the most likely scenario is that your bank will inform your IRS or equivalent about all the transfers that surpass $3,000.

Florin_BTC

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Hi there

I read that there are some countries that are crypto friendly when it comes to paying income tax.
These countries are: Germany, Singapore, Portugal, Malaysia, Malta, Belarus, Switzerland, The Netherlands, The Cayman Islands, Slovenia, Puerto Rico.

Is there someone from these countries that has exchanged crypto for a profit and has paid little or no taxes on it?

I have some bitcoins that I've kept for a couple of years and I'd like to sell them for a profit, without paying a big tax on it, and then to transfer the money through bank transfer to my country. Here in my country I'd have to pay 20%, which is not acceptable.

Topic: Crypto friendly countries, where and how to exchange your crypto with 0 taxes (Read 489 times)