Crypto marketcap is now more than 13% of cash in circulation

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Maybe I just didn't get your point but it seems like you are trying co combine the market cap with the amount of existed fiat money.
Market cap is calculated as the price of the last coin sold on the market multiplied by the number of coins. So for example if you are buying a coin for 2$ that was 1$ before then you doubled its market cap (for example from million to 2 million dollars if it has 1 mln supply). You can hardly get the same amount of fiat money if you try to sell all crypto.
That logic is not working with fiat mainly because it is not traded / used the same way as crypto.

digaran

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Why are you counting only the two fiat currencies, dollar and euro? do you know how much money exist in the entire world? if you try to estimate the amount in dollar, It'd be more than $10 trillion dollars, and Bitcoin would take less than 1.3% of the total money circulation. still a bubble?

GreatOrchid

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This is exactly what i have been looking for, all those people are just HOLDING, or "hodling" like they use to say, only to become rich only by holding a few sats, it is full of those people.

Quote from: phreakk on December 02, 2017, 06:44:57 AM

Kind of. Currently, there are A LOT of people investing in cryptocurrencies, purely because they think they'll become rich if they do so.

Exactly, this is so clear. A lot of people are saying that we are not in a bubble, but that is false, this bubble is enourmous, but we dont even know if it will crash at some time, but we are still making profit from this one, right? So i dont see anything wrong about holding as much as you can afford to lose.

Quote from: phreakk on December 02, 2017, 06:44:57 AM

In short: Yes, we're in a bubble. It's going to collapse, but no one knows when. It could just as well go on for a couple more years, growing to unimaginable heights, if people are patient enough to hold their Bitcoins. One thing is certain: It will fall!

gentlemand

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Market cap means nothing. You wouldn't be able to get 5% of the market cap out before it went to nil, possibly 1-2% now if it was short term. O how I wish there was another measure.

And what's the point in comparing it to cash anyway?

Here's an interesting link - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-02/jpmorgan-has-some-bad-news-bitcoin-bears

The supposition is that $6 billion of real money went into making that $300 billion figure.

Stooked

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Huge increasing happen because Bitcoin (more than 11,700$) and BCH (1,300$) so it is normal to have this numbers

magneto

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Dollar cash in circulation was 1154 Bn USD in 2016:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currcircvalue.htm

Euro cash circulation was 1143 Bn EUR in September 2017:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/banknotes+coins/circulation/html/index.en.html

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

As pooya said, you have around half of the entire market cap being made up of mostly shitcoins. Of course there are gems of projects out there but there is pretty much nothing that can compete with bitcoin when it comes to actual merchant acceptance.

Is it a bubble? Short term i'd say yes but in the lnog term you'll realise that these figures are actually quite cheap.

Just because people aren't using BTC now as much, doesn't mean they won't in future. The fact that the price has been pumped means that people realise the potential of this.

pooya87

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.... and what you are missing out is that you can use every single unit of the cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (which you said it is around 2500 Bn USD). but you can not use 44% of the total crypto market cap (56% is bitcoin and 44% are the rest of them). there is no usage for them! they are virtual tokens that only serve one purpose: be pumped and dumped!

you might as well count the grains of sand on earth and say the sand market cap is bigger than cash in circulation!

eyesopen

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on December 02, 2017, 06:05:18 AM

Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

I'm not so sure about that.

I don’t see it on the Fed link but the ECB one clearly states that it is about notes and coins in circulation. Cash usage has been constantly decreasing for the past decade compared to electronic payments. Bear in mind that virtually no big payments are made using cash in most countries, like when you buy a house. It would be interesting to know the exact data (cash usage vs electronic cash usage).

What is also clear from that data is that both the FED and the ECB keep printing a lot because physical cash in circulation is increasing while decreasing vs electronic payments.

I was also of the understanding that cash transactions was in decline while electronic transactions are rising.

We actually dont need to have cash to pay for eceryday essentials.

MickeyT2008

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Probably it is a bubble, we dont know that, by the same way that we dont know if it is really "going" to explode at some point. We all are still making money from this, why would you like to see it crashing again?

And do you really think that 13% is nothing? We are very near to replace the real fiat, a lot of people are investing in cryptos, and that is a huge step for everybody who is really interested in the blockchain.

Once that it really replaces it, bitcoin will explode for sure, but we dont know if it is going to happen.

Bitcoin is like an old box, we dont know what is going to happen (just by the same way that you do not know what is going to be inside of an old box)

Pursuer

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

no. it is a clear sign that yet another person was misled by coinmarketcap.com while reading market capitalization values and comparing it with market capitalization of other meaningful things such as currencies and companies.

in reality, these millions and billions are meaningless numbers. it is as if you start printing your own version of US dollar! imagine you buy a printer and print 100,000 dollar bills. print 10,000 of them with your HP printer! that doesn't increase the total "cash" in circulation unless someone starts using your bills. which people never will!

dothebeats

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Quote from: davis196 on December 02, 2017, 07:31:56 AM

Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Dollar cash in circulation was 1154 Bn USD in 2016:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currcircvalue.htm

Euro cash circulation was 1143 Bn EUR in September 2017:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/banknotes+coins/circulation/html/index.en.html

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

How come you make a conclusion that we are in a bubble,only using this comparison?
I don`t understand your theory.Bitcoin can`t be compared with cash in circulation,because most of the bitcoins aren`t in circulation.Most of the btc are owned by HODLers ,who refuse to use them and only wait for the price increase ,when they sell them for USD to take the profit.You have to compare BTC in circulation with USD in circulation.

I don't think you fully understand what OP is trying to say. If you call the rise from $600-$10000 natural growth then I don't even know what to say. We clearly are in a bubble, sans the comparison of cash circulation with BTC. Astronomical growth within a short period very well defines a bubble with only a few million people utilizing it. Current number of bitcoins in circulation won't affect the total marketcap in any way since all mined coins are still taken into account even if they're lost forever.

davis196

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Dollar cash in circulation was 1154 Bn USD in 2016:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currcircvalue.htm

Euro cash circulation was 1143 Bn EUR in September 2017:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/banknotes+coins/circulation/html/index.en.html

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

How come you make a conclusion that we are in a bubble,only using this comparison?
I don`t understand your theory.Bitcoin can`t be compared with cash in circulation,because most of the bitcoins aren`t in circulation.Most of the btc are owned by HODLers ,who refuse to use them and only wait for the price increase ,when they sell them for USD to take the profit.You have to compare BTC in circulation with USD in circulation.

phreakk

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Dollar cash in circulation was 1154 Bn USD in 2016:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currcircvalue.htm

Euro cash circulation was 1143 Bn EUR in September 2017:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/banknotes+coins/circulation/html/index.en.html

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

Kind of. Currently, there are A LOT of people investing in cryptocurrencies, purely because they think they'll become rich if they do so. Therefore, they aren't using the Cryptocurrencies for what they were made for.
Of course, there are a lot of people that do actually use Cryptocurrencies for what they were made for, but the vast majority doesn't. And with a good reason: They're so volatile that they're not yet very useful for that.

Even on Bitcointalk, a Bitcoin/Cryptocurrency-based forum, there is a significant percentage of people who doesn't even know the actual concept of Cryptocurrencies.
When I look around the forum, I see that most only understand the concept of "Less supply, higher price, so let's invest in cryptocurrencies". Some a bit more, but Bitcoin got its popularity through that.

In short: Yes, we're in a bubble. It's going to collapse, but no one knows when. It could just as well go on for a couple more years, growing to unimaginable heights, if people are patient enough to hold their Bitcoins. One thing is certain: It will fall!

Don Pedro Dinero

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Quote from: btcinsight on December 02, 2017, 05:41:17 AM

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

I'm not so sure about that.

I don’t see it on the Fed link but the ECB one clearly states that it is about notes and coins in circulation. Cash usage has been constantly decreasing for the past decade compared to electronic payments. Bear in mind that virtually no big payments are made using cash in most countries, like when you buy a house. It would be interesting to know the exact data (cash usage vs electronic cash usage).

What is also clear from that data is that both the FED and the ECB keep printing a lot because physical cash in circulation is increasing while decreasing vs electronic payments.

btcinsight

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Cryptocurrencies marketcaps combined are now around 330 Billion USD, which is roughly 7.5% of cash in circulation in Euro and Dollars combined (around 2500 Bn USD)

Dollar cash in circulation was 1154 Bn USD in 2016:
https://www.federalreserve.gov/paymentsystems/coin_currcircvalue.htm

Euro cash circulation was 1143 Bn EUR in September 2017:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/banknotes+coins/circulation/html/index.en.html

Clearly, cryptocurrencies usage, apart from pure speculation, is way less than 13% of cash. Isn't it the sign that we are in a giant bubble?

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