cryptocoins-dice.com vanished | Bitcointalksearch.org

asuryan180

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Quote from: acquafredda on March 22, 2015, 02:49:26 AM

Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 04:44:54 PM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 06:32:09 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 02:49:40 AM

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

There are many legit sites out there you just need to look for the ones that have a track record of doing good and who has been in control of many bitcoin but who stuck around and never did a runner when they could quite easily have with 100's maybe 1000' of bitcoin there are good sites out there but you have to do your own research i will not tell you somewhere for you to go play and end up losing to a scam lol

Go and tell it to Mt.Gox customers for example, or Mintpal's.

In this world, I'm sorry, but you'd better watch out.

Why are you bringing exchanges into it we are talking about gambling sites Huh

Yes maybe they did hold a lot of bitcoin but they was untrustworthy. For an example Just dice when it accepted btc held a lot, you have PD you have Bitdice.me these 'gambling site' owners are as trusted as they come, Dadice however new are looking like they are here for the long term and have an awesome site.

Just because there are bad cookies does not mean a lot or most of them are, the old saying still rings true only deposit on the site that you can afford to lose from either the owner doing a runner or just hard on your luck, either way is obviously a risk but that is a risk you should be willing to take or don't play..

You can never be safe and should only hold on any site what you do not control what you are willing to lose

I think those sites are even worse compared to exchanges. They do the same.
So please let's not talk about legit sites in here when we don't know mostly anything about them.
Wink

Don't you dare tell me or others what we can and can't say is a legit 'gambling site' i live in a land where i can say what i want when i want and i will continue to do so.

Btw i regularly play and have never had a problem, clearly you have not played any sites with your head stuck so far up there.

The sites i mentioned have proved their self over and over again for well over a year, who are you exactly to say any different, have they ever taken money from you?

If you carry on speaking off topic with no thought in your posts i will report you because it is clearly 2 rules you do not pay attention to..

andulolika

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Quote

I think those sites are even worse compared to exchanges. They do the same.
So please let's not talk about legit sites in here when we don't know mostly anything about them.
Wink

What sites? I think the sites he mentioned specially JD has proven enough times that they are legit.

acquafredda

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Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 04:44:54 PM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 06:32:09 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 02:49:40 AM

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

There are many legit sites out there you just need to look for the ones that have a track record of doing good and who has been in control of many bitcoin but who stuck around and never did a runner when they could quite easily have with 100's maybe 1000' of bitcoin there are good sites out there but you have to do your own research i will not tell you somewhere for you to go play and end up losing to a scam lol

Go and tell it to Mt.Gox customers for example, or Mintpal's.

In this world, I'm sorry, but you'd better watch out.

Why are you bringing exchanges into it we are talking about gambling sites Huh

Yes maybe they did hold a lot of bitcoin but they was untrustworthy. For an example Just dice when it accepted btc held a lot, you have PD you have Bitdice.me these 'gambling site' owners are as trusted as they come, Dadice however new are looking like they are here for the long term and have an awesome site.

Just because there are bad cookies does not mean a lot or most of them are, the old saying still rings true only deposit on the site that you can afford to lose from either the owner doing a runner or just hard on your luck, either way is obviously a risk but that is a risk you should be willing to take or don't play..

You can never be safe and should only hold on any site what you do not control what you are willing to lose

I think those sites are even worse compared to exchanges. They do the same.
So please let's not talk about legit sites in here when we don't know mostly anything about them.
Wink

leesin

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

#feelthebern

seems a bit dumb for the owner to leave lol.

So the owner leaves $4k in btc value. I never leave btc overnight for any untrusted site, unlessI know they been around for a long time, but even then im risking it a bit.

asuryan180

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Activity: 868

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Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 04:32:52 PM

Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 06:32:09 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 02:49:40 AM

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

There are many legit sites out there you just need to look for the ones that have a track record of doing good and who has been in control of many bitcoin but who stuck around and never did a runner when they could quite easily have with 100's maybe 1000' of bitcoin there are good sites out there but you have to do your own research i will not tell you somewhere for you to go play and end up losing to a scam lol

Go and tell it to Mt.Gox customers for example, or Mintpal's.

In this world, I'm sorry, but you'd better watch out.

Why are you bringing exchanges into it we are talking about gambling sites Huh

Yes maybe they did hold a lot of bitcoin but they was untrustworthy. For an example Just dice when it accepted btc held a lot, you have PD you have Bitdice.me these 'gambling site' owners are as trusted as they come, Dadice however new are looking like they are here for the long term and have an awesome site.

Just because there are bad cookies does not mean a lot or most of them are, the old saying still rings true only deposit on the site that you can afford to lose from either the owner doing a runner or just hard on your luck, either way is obviously a risk but that is a risk you should be willing to take or don't play..

You can never be safe and should only hold on any site what you do not control what you are willing to lose

acquafredda

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Activity: 1316

Merit: 1481

Quote from: asuryan180 on March 21, 2015, 06:32:09 AM

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 02:49:40 AM

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

There are many legit sites out there you just need to look for the ones that have a track record of doing good and who has been in control of many bitcoin but who stuck around and never did a runner when they could quite easily have with 100's maybe 1000' of bitcoin there are good sites out there but you have to do your own research i will not tell you somewhere for you to go play and end up losing to a scam lol

Go and tell it to Mt.Gox customers for example, or Mintpal's.

In this world, I'm sorry, but you'd better watch out.

Hfleer

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Activity: 448

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Changing avatars is currently not possible.

Quote from: andulolika on March 21, 2015, 11:44:02 AM

Quote from: Hfleer on March 21, 2015, 11:39:39 AM

Quote from: andulolika on March 20, 2015, 10:08:10 PM

Quote from: Hfleer on March 20, 2015, 08:51:56 PM

So sad that JD stopped the BTC currency. There is a big void now and those shady suckers exploit that and apparently people trust everyone :/

JD has CLAM now, indeed is not the same as with btc yet, but give it time CLAM is still pretty new. I think JD with clams is not that bad i like it.

Sure, but my point was that you can't invest your BTC there. And most people want to invest BTC, not sell BTC and invest then.

Thats not a problem, thats why you have offsite, if you have 10 btc, buy with one offsite 10x and you have the same.

That is completely false logic. You are still not investing in BTC and have swings that are not related to the investment or BTC itself.

andulolika

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Quote from: Hfleer on March 21, 2015, 11:39:39 AM

Quote from: andulolika on March 20, 2015, 10:08:10 PM

Quote from: Hfleer on March 20, 2015, 08:51:56 PM

So sad that JD stopped the BTC currency. There is a big void now and those shady suckers exploit that and apparently people trust everyone :/

JD has CLAM now, indeed is not the same as with btc yet, but give it time CLAM is still pretty new. I think JD with clams is not that bad i like it.

Sure, but my point was that you can't invest your BTC there. And most people want to invest BTC, not sell BTC and invest then.

Thats not a problem, thats why you have offsite, if you have 10 btc, buy with one offsite 10x and you have the same.

Hfleer

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Quote from: andulolika on March 20, 2015, 10:08:10 PM

Quote from: Hfleer on March 20, 2015, 08:51:56 PM

So sad that JD stopped the BTC currency. There is a big void now and those shady suckers exploit that and apparently people trust everyone :/

JD has CLAM now, indeed is not the same as with btc yet, but give it time CLAM is still pretty new. I think JD with clams is not that bad i like it.

Sure, but my point was that you can't invest your BTC there. And most people want to invest BTC, not sell BTC and invest then.

casinobitcoin

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So this site went scam? Too bad as it supported many alts by our knowledge.
Best to use a trustworthy site.

asuryan180

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Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: acquafredda on March 21, 2015, 02:49:40 AM

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

There are many legit sites out there you just need to look for the ones that have a track record of doing good and who has been in control of many bitcoin but who stuck around and never did a runner when they could quite easily have with 100's maybe 1000' of bitcoin there are good sites out there but you have to do your own research i will not tell you somewhere for you to go play and end up losing to a scam lol

Vezalke

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Luckily I withdraw all couple of days ago Roll Eyes

acquafredda

legendary

Activity: 1316

Merit: 1481

Quote from: JaredStein on March 21, 2015, 02:44:45 AM

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

We are like a little fish in an ocean full of sharks!
There scams, ponzi etc. everywhere.

Watch out

JaredStein

sr. member

Activity: 379

Merit: 251

Where are all the legit sites at Huh

Tongkar

hero member

Activity: 511

Merit: 500

Quote from: yogg on March 20, 2015, 10:25:33 PM

Quote from: Tongkar on March 20, 2015, 10:21:03 PM

There should be software that acts as a escrow run by a trusted 3rd party which the gambling site most have the bankroll to match all deposits and be held in escrow. This should me mandatory for all gambling sites.

I hear you. It would be a good way to do it.
But to be able to offer some bet size, gambling websites must have the according stake.
However, how would you prove that you need some more funds from escrow to fulfill the site's wallet ?

What we need are gambling websites people can trust, with owners wanting to play by the rules instead of running away with people's money.

I was thinking only for deposits not the entire sites bank roll. So maybe like 10 btc set aside to match deposits.

andulolika

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Activity: 2338

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Quote from: yogg on March 20, 2015, 10:25:33 PM

Quote from: Tongkar on March 20, 2015, 10:21:03 PM

There should be software that acts as a escrow run by a trusted 3rd party which the gambling site most have the bankroll to match all deposits and be held in escrow. This should me mandatory for all gambling sites.

I hear you. It would be a good way to do it.
But to be able to offer some bet size, gambling websites must have the according stake.
However, how would you prove that you need some more funds from escrow to fulfill the site's wallet ?

What we need are gambling websites people can trust, with owners wanting to play by the rules instead of running away with people's money.

Both of you i think Just-Dice has proven that enough times, by paying 10.000 btc to a winner without any delay and many more. Its with clams now not with btc anymore but it still has value , as long it has value is good. Also the max profit its high as fuck.

yogg

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Quote from: Tongkar on March 20, 2015, 10:21:03 PM

There should be software that acts as a escrow run by a trusted 3rd party which the gambling site most have the bankroll to match all deposits and be held in escrow. This should me mandatory for all gambling sites.

I hear you. It would be a good way to do it.
But to be able to offer some bet size, gambling websites must have the according stake.
However, how would you prove that you need some more funds from escrow to fulfill the site's wallet ?

What we need are gambling websites people can trust, with owners wanting to play by the rules instead of running away with people's money.

Tongkar

hero member

Activity: 511

Merit: 500

There should be software that acts as a escrow run by a trusted 3rd party which the gambling site most have the bankroll to match all deposits and be held in escrow. This should me mandatory for all gambling sites.

andulolika

legendary

Activity: 2338

Merit: 1047

Quote from: Hfleer on March 20, 2015, 08:51:56 PM

So sad that JD stopped the BTC currency. There is a big void now and those shady suckers exploit that and apparently people trust everyone :/

JD has CLAM now, indeed is not the same as with btc yet, but give it time CLAM is still pretty new. I think JD with clams is not that bad i like it.

Hfleer

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Changing avatars is currently not possible.

So sad that JD stopped the BTC currency. There is a big void now and those shady suckers exploit that and apparently people trust everyone :/

joymax

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Merit: 0

Quote from: LiQuidx on March 17, 2015, 04:51:59 AM

Where there any signs that would end up like that or was this sudden?

sudden

LiQuidx

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Activity: 546

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Where there any signs that would end up like that or was this sudden?

oldmate

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Activity: 107

Merit: 10

#1 Diggit.io Investor

Another scam. Shocker.

birdcat90

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

really? this site is gone?

well because not too many player gambling there,right? maybe no good features to attract people or at first it created to scam too..

who knows?

Shogen

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Activity: 966

Merit: 1001

Quote from: GrandmaJean on March 14, 2015, 12:05:43 PM

Quote from: waterpile on March 14, 2015, 07:06:25 AM

Quote from: LuckyBtc on March 14, 2015, 06:35:46 AM

Quote from: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:11:44 AM

i'm still have my 2 XMR on there....

They are gone along with 50k XMR. I read on the XMR discusion thread the site had investment of 50k XMR plus users balance all of them have dumped or are being dumped on the market.
I feel sorry for you and other users / investors. Undecided

I guess they ran away with lots of cash then.. I thought the equivalent of all investment is around 15-10btc

you assume that 10 coins a lot novadays? Its 3 thousand dollars only if they worked more they could have made huge money in my opinion it was a dumb decision in my opinion

It is much more than 10-15 btc.
Monero/Bitcoin is trading at 0.00228 now, so 50k XMR = 114 btc.
And there are investment for 4 other coins (Bitcoin, Ripple, Doge, Magi), so the total amount would probably be a few hundreds bitcoin.

anshar

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Activity: 350

Merit: 250

It was the type of dice site to vanish just like that. Be careful with shitty new sites.

arallmuus

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Quote from: GrandmaJean on March 14, 2015, 12:05:43 PM

I guess they ran away with lots of cash then.. I thought the equivalent of all investment is around 15-10btc

you assume that 10 coins a lot novadays? Its 3 thousand dollars only if they worked more they could have made huge money in my opinion it was a dumb decision in my opinion
[/quote]

not really, running a dice site got its own consequence, although almost all the house actually made money, there is never a guarantee that all house gonna make money, you risk on wasting your time to run it, wasting resources to maintain it, perhaps they shut down because they thought their house wont make anything since there is a lot sites that compete in the gambling world

GrandmaJean

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Activity: 280

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Quote from: waterpile on March 14, 2015, 07:06:25 AM

Quote from: LuckyBtc on March 14, 2015, 06:35:46 AM

Quote from: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:11:44 AM

i'm still have my 2 XMR on there....

They are gone along with 50k XMR. I read on the XMR discusion thread the site had investment of 50k XMR plus users balance all of them have dumped or are being dumped on the market.
I feel sorry for you and other users / investors. Undecided

I guess they ran away with lots of cash then.. I thought the equivalent of all investment is around 15-10btc

you assume that 10 coins a lot novadays? Its 3 thousand dollars only if they worked more they could have made huge money in my opinion it was a dumb decision in my opinion

arallmuus

legendary

Activity: 2562

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Quote from: waterpile on March 14, 2015, 07:29:07 AM

Quote from: boopy265420 on March 14, 2015, 07:22:26 AM

Another sad news for players of this site . Some people still were lucky enough to withdraw their balances. Everything related to this site is closed or not available so this is a clear indicator of loosing money. Cry

The sad part is the major bankroll providers are the one got scammed. Very glad that i was able to withdraw my 300k doges before this happened. Last time i saw the doge bankroll was around 11m.. Sad

just woke up and i saw this thread, quite surprising that this site is gone and turn outs to be a scammer, I suffer a bit lost here which is like 100k doge, give or take, Im just relieved that i didnt put up a big amount in the site.

waterpile

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Activity: 602

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Quote from: boopy265420 on March 14, 2015, 07:22:26 AM

Another sad news for players of this site . Some people still were lucky enough to withdraw their balances. Everything related to this site is closed or not available so this is a clear indicator of loosing money. Cry

The sad part is the major bankroll providers are the one got scammed. Very glad that i was able to withdraw my 300k doges before this happened. Last time i saw the doge bankroll was around 11m.. Sad

boopy265420

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Activity: 1876

Merit: 1005

Another sad news for players of this site . Some people still were lucky enough to withdraw their balances. Everything related to this site is closed or not available so this is a clear indicator of loosing money. Cry

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: LuckyBtc on March 14, 2015, 06:35:46 AM

Quote from: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:11:44 AM

i'm still have my 2 XMR on there....

They are gone along with 50k XMR. I read on the XMR discusion thread the site had investment of 50k XMR plus users balance all of them have dumped or are being dumped on the market.
I feel sorry for you and other users / investors. Undecided

I guess they ran away with lots of cash then.. I thought the equivalent of all investment is around 15-10btc

justinetime

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

Oh. Just want to deposit some magi, and the site is down.
Don't know where to play dice with Monero and Magi anymore.

LuckyBtc

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1012

Quote from: janggernaut on March 14, 2015, 04:11:44 AM

i'm still have my 2 XMR on there....

They are gone along with 50k XMR. I read on the XMR discusion thread the site had investment of 50k XMR plus users balance all of them have dumped or are being dumped on the market.
I feel sorry for you and other users / investors. Undecided

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: syamster on March 14, 2015, 06:31:07 AM

This is too harsh.... dice sites already have house edges and they are making money, then why these sites are trying to scam everyone...

Not all dice sites are having profit take note that they have some expenses to run a site

syamster

hero member

Activity: 1078

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This is too harsh.... dice sites already have house edges and they are making money, then why these sites are trying to scam everyone...

wpalczynski

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

I have another thread going trying to uncover this Bobbax theifs identity. Hopefully he can be made to answer for what he did. If you have any info please post it in that thread.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocoins-dicecom-looks-like-another-crypto-rip-off-scam-988226

janggernaut

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i'm still have my 2 XMR on there....

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: fox19891989 on March 13, 2015, 11:55:32 PM

Too many unreliable dice sites, I recommend you a legit and popular site -- dadice

New design and good user experience, 250 sat faucet lowest.

Click my signature to register, guys. TY

Popular and legit? Please can you show proof of its legitimacy..

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: bitbaby on March 13, 2015, 11:48:55 PM

This is shocking news, I saw the site although I never played there and it looked like a nicely built site and seemed as if it was here for a long run. I wonder why owner decided to close it.

The site profit is kinda low, I guess he is losing money while running the site.

fox19891989

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Too many unreliable dice sites, I recommend you a legit and popular site -- dadice

New design and good user experience, 250 sat faucet lowest.

Click my signature to register, guys. TY

bitbaby

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

This is shocking news, I saw the site although I never played there and it looked like a nicely built site and seemed as if it was here for a long run. I wonder why owner decided to close it.

rayhan

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

be your self

and maybe they / he will create a new gambling site
better not save any money in your account, and make a withdrawal if wins

twister

hero member

Activity: 672

Merit: 502

Quote from: panjul07 on March 13, 2015, 07:08:55 PM

Site is down, disappear official twitter account, locked official thread.
Those three indicators shows that they are gone/run away with some user's money.

Yeah, seems like that which is why it is advised to stick with the gambling sites which have been running over a long period and have proven their trust over time. And don't go invest/play with big amounts on new sites. How long was this site running for?

panjul07

legendary

Activity: 3500

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Site is down, disappear official twitter account, locked official thread.
Those three indicators shows that they are gone/run away with some user's money.

asuryan180

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Snorek on March 13, 2015, 06:12:51 PM

Another scammy site is gone? That is actually good news for the community. I hope that people do not lose much in deposits.
I wonder now if that site was rigged from the start and not 'provably fair" tho. I will remember to never keep any deposits anymore.

That would be a good idea on most sites not to keep deposits on there longer than you need to, it is to tempting for a lot of people to just take off although there are exceptions to this of course just look at how long they have been going who active the owner is what sort of person do they come across as etc etc. Agreed good news when the scams are over with and people can move on hope no one lost to much :/

Snorek

legendary

Activity: 1400

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Another scammy site is gone? That is actually good news for the community. I hope that people do not lose much in deposits.
I wonder now if that site was rigged from the start and not 'provably fair" tho. I will remember to never keep any deposits anymore.

omahapoker

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

i was level 33 major player . VIP

omahapoker

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

i used to have 0.1 or so in there all the time. for some reason this i withdrew everytime i left

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

woah, i just withdrew my doge investments weeks ago.. Good call for me Cheesy

Lorenzo

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Merit: 250

Quote from: Snipe85 on March 13, 2015, 05:10:38 PM

If he took down the site without warning and locked the thread, what's going on is obvious. He's running with the money, probably the site was getting less and less income and he decided to snatch the deposits.
Omahapoker's withdrawal probably was one of a few done in the recent days and the owner did his math Wink

Virtually all dice sites have a house edge. While a dice site may be unprofitable in the short term due to lucky whales and simple variance, they should definitely make a profit in the long term. It's perplexing why someone would do this although I understand another dice site called dice.ninja also did the same thing.

A cottager and his wife had a Hen that laid a golden egg every day. They supposed that the Hen must contain a great lump of gold in its inside, and in order to get the gold they killed [her]. Having done so, they found to their surprise that the Hen differed in no respect from their other hens. The foolish pair, thus hoping to become rich all at once, deprived themselves of the gain of which they were assured day by day. - George Fyler Townsend

Mist

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

:)

Yeah, either the profit was down or the amount invested/amount in players accounts was too enticing and he ran off.

Snipe85

sr. member

Activity: 756

Merit: 250

Infleum

Quote from: Outlander on March 13, 2015, 04:39:30 PM

What happens ?
He locked his thread too , https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocoins-dicecom-btc-xrp-xmr-xmg-doge-play-invest-leverage-faucet-929949
Last visit on ripple forum about 3 hours ago.

If he took down the site without warning and locked the thread, what's going on is obvious. He's running with the money, probably the site was getting less and less income and he decided to snatch the deposits.
Omahapoker's withdrawal probably was one of a few done in the recent days and the owner did his math Wink

asuryan180

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: omahapoker on March 13, 2015, 02:08:24 PM

wow i had 0.6 in there i withdrew last night

thius means i have good luck. gonna go bet now

Wow if that is true that is some seriously good luck lol surprised you got it though if the owner planned on doing a runner all withdrawals should have been canceled but at least it wasn't for you and you have some coin to go make a bet and i am sure win

Outlander

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1000

What happens ?
He locked his thread too , https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/cryptocoins-dicecom-btc-xrp-xmr-xmg-doge-play-invest-leverage-faucet-929949
Last visit on ripple forum about 3 hours ago.

BTC_Tycoon

newbie

Activity: 3

Merit: 0

While I have no explanation for the vanishing of the ccd and the twitter account missing....I highly doubt bobbax has run off....as I got a request yesterday to accept additional administration tasks of the site and my new position would be active a week from now.

omahapoker

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

wow i had 0.6 in there i withdrew last night

thius means i have good luck. gonna go bet now

joymax

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

https://www.cryptocoins-dice.com/

https://twitter.com/CryptocoinsDice

site is down.. and Bobbax's twitter also does not exist now

Topic: cryptocoins-dice.com vanished (Read 3077 times)