News update.
The world is beginning to enter the stages of a dystopian economy the higher in value bitcoin becomes, according to Jaime Dimon. Listen to his words hehehe.
Also, the United States' stock market might fall because of Trump's ongoing tradewar against China, a tradewar that Jaime Dimon is defending.
Topic: Cryptos would only have value in a dystopian economy said JP Morgan (Read 658 times)
March 20, 2019, 09:47:24 PM
Good find. We are near on the way to this dystopian economy. Especially since JPM wants to create their own stable coin crypto.
March 20, 2019, 09:17:04 PM
This appears to show the hypocrisy of the banking industry when it comes to the developments and accomplishments of bitcoin, not only in the cryptospace, but the whole world. I shake my head.
They want to accomplish what bitcoin has accomplished for their coin. They will fail however, or they might create dystopia with jpcoin which would be good for bitcoin hehehehe.
It’s no secret that the executives sitting at the top of JPMorgan Chase – one of the largest banks in the world – are not the biggest fans of Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies.
Although the bank’s distain towards the nascent technology initially appeared to be genuine – and possibly rooted in fear – it now appears that they are, in fact, bullish on the tech – as long as they are the ones controlling it.
In a recent interview with CNBC’s Squawk Box, Ron Karpovich, the Global Head of eCommerce Solutions at JPMorgan Chase, explained that the traditional banking system is so intertwined with the world presently that there is no true way around avoiding it.
The recent news regarding the bank’s foray into the crypto industry with the introduction of their JPM Coin was quite surprising to the crypto community, as Jamie Dimon, the CEO of the bank, is notoriously anti-crypto.
One of the show’s hosts asked Karpovich about his bosses’ anti- crypto sentiment, to which he responded claiming that there is a difference between utilizing blockchain and speculating on cryptocurrencies.
“There’s a difference between trading a cryptocurrency that’s in the market that’s ubiquitous, versus using the technology to enhance your payment infrastructure,” he explained, avoiding directly confronting Dimon’s previous comments about crypto.
Read in full https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/03/20/jpmorgan-executives-flip-bullish-on-crypto-after-jpm-coin-release/
They want to accomplish what bitcoin has accomplished for their coin. They will fail however, or they might create dystopia with jpcoin which would be good for bitcoin hehehehe.
It’s no secret that the executives sitting at the top of JPMorgan Chase – one of the largest banks in the world – are not the biggest fans of Bitcoin and other similar cryptocurrencies.
Although the bank’s distain towards the nascent technology initially appeared to be genuine – and possibly rooted in fear – it now appears that they are, in fact, bullish on the tech – as long as they are the ones controlling it.
In a recent interview with CNBC’s Squawk Box, Ron Karpovich, the Global Head of eCommerce Solutions at JPMorgan Chase, explained that the traditional banking system is so intertwined with the world presently that there is no true way around avoiding it.
The recent news regarding the bank’s foray into the crypto industry with the introduction of their JPM Coin was quite surprising to the crypto community, as Jamie Dimon, the CEO of the bank, is notoriously anti-crypto.
One of the show’s hosts asked Karpovich about his bosses’ anti- crypto sentiment, to which he responded claiming that there is a difference between utilizing blockchain and speculating on cryptocurrencies.
“There’s a difference between trading a cryptocurrency that’s in the market that’s ubiquitous, versus using the technology to enhance your payment infrastructure,” he explained, avoiding directly confronting Dimon’s previous comments about crypto.
Read in full https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/03/20/jpmorgan-executives-flip-bullish-on-crypto-after-jpm-coin-release/
March 04, 2019, 12:19:55 AM
This is an article about Andreas Antonopoulos' video commentary on government issued cryptocoins and the last era of paper money.
Another clear reason to hold bitcoins while the world celebrates the development of government issued coins, I reckon hehehe.
What they [governments] are trying to create is a currency panopticon a situation a virtual digital prison of money in which everything you do is controlled everything you do can be seen can be monitored and at that point your freedom is one binary switch free not free free not free and one day someone’s gonna go through that virtual control room ago click-click click-click click-click I won the election of course
Source https://ambcrypto.com/bitcoin-btc-proponent-there-are-going-to-be-more-state-sponsored-cryptocurrencies-because-cash-is-going-to-be-eradicated/
Another clear reason to hold bitcoins while the world celebrates the development of government issued coins, I reckon hehehe.
What they [governments] are trying to create is a currency panopticon a situation a virtual digital prison of money in which everything you do is controlled everything you do can be seen can be monitored and at that point your freedom is one binary switch free not free free not free and one day someone’s gonna go through that virtual control room ago click-click click-click click-click I won the election of course
Source https://ambcrypto.com/bitcoin-btc-proponent-there-are-going-to-be-more-state-sponsored-cryptocurrencies-because-cash-is-going-to-be-eradicated/
Shower thought.
What if J.P. Morgan is already holding a large stash of Bitcoin, while planning on issuing its dystopian JPMcoin at the same time to give birth to a scenario of a "dystopian setting", wherein Bitcoin will have high value. Logical?
HODL.
March 01, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
I don't particularly care for that article, because it doesn't give you the whole quote from JPM, and I don't really trust any media source to interpret quotes correctly.
Also, I'm not sure there's any clear definition of what constitutes a "dystopian" society. Some might call present-day Venezuela pretty dystopian, while others might be thinking along the lines of The Walking Dead. The further you go into dystopia, the less likely bitcoin is going to be viable as a currency--or even an asset. If we're talking about a situation where the internet or the power grid is down, nobody is going to have any use for crypto.
But hey, this is JP Morgan here. Take all of this with an enormous shaker of NaCl.
Also, I'm not sure there's any clear definition of what constitutes a "dystopian" society. Some might call present-day Venezuela pretty dystopian, while others might be thinking along the lines of The Walking Dead. The further you go into dystopia, the less likely bitcoin is going to be viable as a currency--or even an asset. If we're talking about a situation where the internet or the power grid is down, nobody is going to have any use for crypto.
But hey, this is JP Morgan here. Take all of this with an enormous shaker of NaCl.
March 01, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
What JP Morgan fails to understand is that we do want that "dystopian" economy they are talking about. We do not want their traditional economy, their own version of the economy makes rich people richer and poor people poorer because they are bound to make more money, rich people and big corporations are forced to make more and more profits for shareholders otherwise their shareholders will leave which will make their stocks go down and cause them to be gobbled by another company.
So, unless JP Morgan keeps making profits they will be destroyed and in our "dystopian" economy no one can keep on making profits more and more and more above inflation unless someone gives them their money, which means there are no governments to continue supporting their ways to screw the system and taxpayers to continue making profits.
So, unless JP Morgan keeps making profits they will be destroyed and in our "dystopian" economy no one can keep on making profits more and more and more above inflation unless someone gives them their money, which means there are no governments to continue supporting their ways to screw the system and taxpayers to continue making profits.
February 28, 2019, 08:23:11 PM
This is an article about Andreas Antonopoulos' video commentary on government issued cryptocoins and the last era of paper money.
Another clear reason to hold bitcoins while the world celebrates the development of government issued coins, I reckon hehehe.
What they [governments] are trying to create is a currency panopticon a situation a virtual digital prison of money in which everything you do is controlled everything you do can be seen can be monitored and at that point your freedom is one binary switch free not free free not free and one day someone’s gonna go through that virtual control room ago click-click click-click click-click I won the election of course
Source https://ambcrypto.com/bitcoin-btc-proponent-there-are-going-to-be-more-state-sponsored-cryptocurrencies-because-cash-is-going-to-be-eradicated/
Another clear reason to hold bitcoins while the world celebrates the development of government issued coins, I reckon hehehe.
What they [governments] are trying to create is a currency panopticon a situation a virtual digital prison of money in which everything you do is controlled everything you do can be seen can be monitored and at that point your freedom is one binary switch free not free free not free and one day someone’s gonna go through that virtual control room ago click-click click-click click-click I won the election of course
Source https://ambcrypto.com/bitcoin-btc-proponent-there-are-going-to-be-more-state-sponsored-cryptocurrencies-because-cash-is-going-to-be-eradicated/
February 05, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
We are already in a dystopian economy.
If you lend money to the bank, the interest paid is minimal.
If the bank lend money to you, the interest paid is monstrous.
That is not really the problem, banks are a business and like any business they need to get profits, if you eat at a restaurant it is clear they are charging you for your food more money than all the costs associated with it and banks follow the same logic, the problem I have with banks is their ability to create all the money they want and to basically own the economy and do as they wish with it to the detriment of the rest of the population. If you lend money to the bank, the interest paid is minimal.
If the bank lend money to you, the interest paid is monstrous.
February 05, 2019, 04:11:24 AM
I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.
They're wrong. A booming crypto is a luxury afforded by booming conventional markets. The money going into it doesn't appear from a vacuum. It's from people earning in fiat and cashing out other assets. In several decades it could conceivably be something you could move into and never look back. Until then it's dependent on the health of everything else out there
But the same can be said with respect to any asset out there
I assume some people are going to come up with the idea that gold doesn't belong to this category, i.e. when everything falls gold rises. But it is not so. Gold just happens to fall slower in value under such circumstances even if its price denominated in fiat money (say, the dollar) may in fact be rising. The bottom line is that you can't actually take Bitcoin (or crypto in general) and say it is a luxury as everything else would be a luxury in this context (apart from bare necessities like water, food, shelter)
February 05, 2019, 03:57:14 AM
There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.
I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.
Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?
Given a choice between the two they'll prefer Bitcoin, sure. If Venezuelans had to choose between Bolivars and sacks of sugar, I'm sure they'd choose the sugar too. That doesn't mean BTC (or sacks of sugar) is what they really want. This is what they actually want:
Quote
Increasingly, the line between survival and starvation is determined not by having a job or an education, but something else.
Access to U.S. dollars.
Access to U.S. dollars.
There needs to be more than just access to Bitcoin exchanges. There needs to be actual demand for BTC among merchants, producers, etc. otherwise nobody can spend them. Venezuelans can spend USD anywhere (because people are willing to accept it, because it holds its value). So USD is king.
Yes exactly, the point was not because Bitcoin is "the best", which it really is. But if you make it very accessible, more accessible than the dollar, then volumes would surely rise.
"USD is king" because it might be easier to convert, more accessible, more people use it, easier to spend no internet required.
February 04, 2019, 05:48:57 PM
No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?
it reminds me of depression era stories i used to hear about people eating "dirt soup" and things like that. indeed, it seems silly to think that this is a strong basis for bitcoin adoption.
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
for the same reason traders short bull markets. they think they can outsmart the market, and for a time they might be right. eventually, they'll be run over and lose all their coins when people stampede for the exits.
February 04, 2019, 12:22:54 PM
We are already in a dystopian economy.
If you lend money to the bank, the interest paid is minimal.
If the bank lend money to you, the interest paid is monstrous.
If you lend money to the bank, the interest paid is minimal.
If the bank lend money to you, the interest paid is monstrous.
February 04, 2019, 10:28:27 AM
No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?
I remember reading an interview with a Venezuelan who made the point that even if you had money, the supply of most things is basically no longer there. It's a double whammy of the local currency and the local distribution of everything failing at once.
February 04, 2019, 10:24:50 AM
I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.
Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?
No, it is not about access, its about them not having anything. I talked about this somewhere else as well I think but those people in Venezuela do not have food or clothes or anything they own and have hard time living, I have seen people boiling a SHOE in a water to make it taste something and drink like soup. Now, you expect if we install 1000 bitcoin ATM all over Venezuela you can change that persons life somehow ? They do not have a bread to eat and we assume bitcoin could change their lives ?Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?
I mean of course there were some rich people or above average people who took their money out to bitcoin to save from inflation and made money purely on inflation reasons even while bitcoin was going down but bitcoin would have helped 20%-30% of the population at best, there are about 50% of them dying right now and bitcoin is the last thing they need.
February 04, 2019, 09:36:55 AM
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
I often wonder that but the most obvious answer is everyday expenses.
You can't spend BTC for most of life's necessities. Keep most of your money in BTC and drip feed out of it when you have to buy something vital and it's a pretty neat arrangement provided you can keep doing it.
February 04, 2019, 09:12:34 AM
Quote from: https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan
In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,”
Says by the investment bank who only helps rich people become richer, these greedy bastards really have nothing good to say on things they are scared the most or at least see as a threat on their business. They know that these kind of assets (cryptocurrency) can upset the balance in terms of social hierarchy, they know that cryptocurrencies can create new breeds of millionaires within weeks from their personal investment and they are afraid that they will run out of business because of them. February 04, 2019, 08:19:08 AM
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
Aside from the profiteering aspect, people are stupid enough to believe that the next time will be different, and that's how they continue to have faith in something that will eventually implode completely.
I'm pretty certain that when people finally realize how toxic the Bolivar is, no one will be stupid enough to convert Bitcoin to Bolivars. One doesn't convert utter garbage to Gold, but it still happens. Ignorance is a crucial aspect within basically any dictatorial regime. It's an effective weapon. The less people know, the lower the odds are that they will figure out how to work around that system.
February 04, 2019, 05:29:28 AM
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
Arbitrage trading is reasonable.Surely still, somewhere down the line, someone ends up with a hyper-inflating currency?
Also, would arbitrage handle the volume?
February 04, 2019, 05:10:11 AM
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
Arbitrage trading is reasonable. February 04, 2019, 05:03:55 AM
Something that bothers me about hyper inflating currencies being exchanged for bitcoin... well yes, great for the person buying bitcoin, but who the hell's on the other side of that exchange? Who's going to sell bitcoin for Bolivar!?
February 04, 2019, 04:45:54 AM
There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.
I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.
Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?
Given a choice between the two they'll prefer Bitcoin, sure. If Venezuelans had to choose between Bolivars and sacks of sugar, I'm sure they'd choose the sugar too. That doesn't mean BTC (or sacks of sugar) is what they really want. This is what they actually want:
Quote
Increasingly, the line between survival and starvation is determined not by having a job or an education, but something else.
Access to U.S. dollars.
Access to U.S. dollars.
There needs to be more than just access to Bitcoin exchanges. There needs to be actual demand for BTC among merchants, producers, etc. otherwise nobody can spend them. Venezuelans can spend USD anywhere (because people are willing to accept it, because it holds its value). So USD is king.
February 04, 2019, 04:11:53 AM
As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.
There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.I wonder if there are actual examples of usage as currency within any of the shaky countries we keep reading about. If we had to believe news outlets countries as Venezuela became crypto hotspots, but that's not the case at all.
I'm sure that most of the alternative currency use within these shaky countries is related to the US Dollar rather than whatever crypto currency. It makes a way better currency than anything else for them.
I believe it's because less people have access to Bitcoin and Bitcoin exchanges.
Make it more accessible, would you still believe that more Venezuelans would prefer to hold the Bolivar than Bitcoin?
February 04, 2019, 01:52:36 AM
WTF?JP Morgan Chase said?A bank can't "say" anyhting. 
Some JP Morgan Chase banker or clerk said this,but he remains anonymous.Is he the new Jamie Dimon?
Bitcoin doesn't have to replace reserve currencies,in order to have and maintain it's value.
Some JP Morgan Chase banker or clerk said this,but he remains anonymous.Is he the new Jamie Dimon?
Bitcoin doesn't have to replace reserve currencies,in order to have and maintain it's value.
February 02, 2019, 05:38:13 PM
As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.
There has been a spike in BTC volume in Venezuela, but it's still too insignificant to take seriously. It could also be caused by local market makers exploiting the premiums, so it would then be speculative volume.I wonder if there are actual examples of usage as currency within any of the shaky countries we keep reading about. If we had to believe news outlets countries as Venezuela became crypto hotspots, but that's not the case at all.
I'm sure that most of the alternative currency use within these shaky countries is related to the US Dollar rather than whatever crypto currency. It makes a way better currency than anything else for them.
February 02, 2019, 02:53:59 AM
It's nothing but another FUD campaign by the banksters, who are most probably running out of narrative to make Bitcoin look worthless, useless, and evil.
Hodl Bitcoin, short banksters.
Hodl Bitcoin, short banksters.
February 01, 2019, 04:56:08 PM
Thank Satoshi that bitcoin was invented because JP Morgan and friends are making the dystopian economy real hehehe.
However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?
Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.
In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.
The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”
JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.
Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan
As you say, they make a completely invalid point, because bitcoin already has value that is brought by supply and demand. Them suggesting bitcoin would only have value in crises is blatant BS, as essentially they are ignoring bitcoin's current price/value completely.However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?
Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.
In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.
The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”
JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.
Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan
The thing is that bitcoin, given its independent status and decentralized nature will probably perform quite well in "dystopian economies". As people lose faith in fiat, like in countries like Venezuela where people's trust in the Bolivar has been completely shattered, bitcoin's demand should theoretically increase as people look for alternative means of transacting, that also comes with the long term store of value aspect.
But that doesn't mean bitcoin can't be useful as a hedge, a currency, and as a store of value in periods of "normal economic activity". People use bitcoin to transact globally every single day. Bitcoin is also used as an investment hedge against the fiat economy, for example, just to name a few uses.
February 01, 2019, 10:13:45 AM
@pooyah87. It is also quite ironic that an institution like JP Morgan brought up the thought of a dystopian economy when their kind are the kind of parasites that feed on the people and bring dystopia.
Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?
It is interesting that the more they express their opinion about bitcoin they also reveal their fear and why bitcoin exist at all, if governments around the world managed their economies in a responsible way and did not print money as if they wanted to crash their economies then there will not be any kind of need for bitcoin and I will not see any point for decentralization when a government has conducted itself in such a responsible way, but since opposite is what it's happening then I see the need for something like bitcoin, it seems to me that it really bothers them that they are the reason bitcoin exists. Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?
January 31, 2019, 06:00:26 AM
No, in anti-utopia environment power outages would be frequent, internet almost non exist and shops without laptops and other electronic equipment closed.
Bartering would thrive and be king, a roll of toiled paper has a lot of value.
Bartering would thrive and be king, a roll of toiled paper has a lot of value.
January 31, 2019, 02:13:55 AM
The position of JP Morgan had been known since the beginning of things especially when crypto started gaining the right amount of momentum and they begin to notice the continued popularity. However, their assumptions is correct in the mean time because its really going to be difficult to have the kind of economy that would give crypto the maximum support but there is a shocker to them which is that, if there is consistency in the push of adoption, it won't be for long that there will be an area of convergence that crypto would feature and won't create any form of disruption.
January 30, 2019, 11:45:12 PM
When physical cash is removed in the name of protection against terrorists and drug dealers, it will be the final nail in the coffin for arguments like this to be defended by JP Morgan and co, and it will be the start of the ultimate bullrun to end all bullruns. I can see Bitcoin being worth $1,000,000 overnight when these anti-financial-freedom policies start going up exponentially.
from transitioning away from cash, really? that seems a bit overdramatic. i don't think average people care that much.
where i live, the "cashless society" fearmongering couldn't be any further from reality. most merchants here prefer cash, with many offering discounts to those who use it. gas stations and mechanics in particular always offer cash prices. i frequent a couple cash-only restaurants too. i just don't see it happening.
It's going to be great as well when Orwellian laws against owning gold start passing and they start stopping everyone trying to cross borders carrying any gold. Perhaps by then r0ach understands how gold is objectively inferior to Bitcoin.
stopping people at the border and confiscating gold, really? why do you expect this to happen?
January 30, 2019, 11:12:29 PM
When physical cash is removed in the name of protection against terrorists and drug dealers, it will be the final nail in the coffin for arguments like this to be defended by JP Morgan and co, and it will be the start of the ultimate bullrun to end all bullruns. I can see Bitcoin being worth $1,000,000 overnight when these anti-financial-freedom policies start going up exponentially.
It's going to be great as well when Orwellian laws against owning gold start passing and they start stopping everyone trying to cross borders carrying any gold. Perhaps by then r0ach understands how gold is objectively inferior to Bitcoin.
It's going to be great as well when Orwellian laws against owning gold start passing and they start stopping everyone trying to cross borders carrying any gold. Perhaps by then r0ach understands how gold is objectively inferior to Bitcoin.
January 30, 2019, 08:15:54 PM
What I wonder is, what would that mean for Bitcoin? If money were to flow out of fiat currencies and into gold, would Bitcoin capture any of that market share as a decentalized, scarce asset?
I'm sure it would capture a chunk, the chunk would increase the more entrenched it gets. However goldbug and Zerohedge assholes have been predicting this for decade after decade with absolutely no sign of it on the horizon. Who knows what creativity they'll throw at the problem. Either way a peaceful wider economy is better than chaos for crypto's progress. Uncool but true.
January 30, 2019, 06:58:38 PM
I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.
They're wrong. A booming crypto is a luxury afforded by booming conventional markets. The money going into it doesn't appear from a vacuum. It's from people earning in fiat and cashing out other assets. In several decades it could conceivably be something you could move into and never look back. Until then it's dependent on the health of everything else out there.
In virtually all cases, I agree with you. Any major economic contraction should cause money to flow out from financial markets, particularly speculative ones.
There is one situation I wonder about, which takes things beyond traditional economic recessions or depressions. What would happen if, as one example, the USD collapsed into hyperinflation and this led to a contagion of fiat currency collapses? If faith in fiat currencies becomes shattered, I definitely expect states to return to gold-backed currency. It worked for many hundreds of years and it would be a simple reversion to the previous system. What I wonder is, what would that mean for Bitcoin? If money were to flow out of fiat currencies and into gold, would Bitcoin capture any of that market share as a decentalized, scarce asset?
January 30, 2019, 06:44:32 PM
J P Morgan is contradicting himself here, first he says that bitcoin has a low correlation with traditional markets on one hand, then he went further to label bitcoin as a poor diversification tool.This is argument is counter-productive as you would not want to diversify your portfolio using an asset class that a strong correlation with your traditional classes of investments, a strong correlation means both asset classes will move in same direction, when one goes down, the other follows since they are strongly correlated.
Low correlation is a good thing when you are considering diversification.
Secondly, it is no longer news that the traditional assets are on the losing ends, we are in a dystopia, and it is going to get worse, bitcoin will therefore grow in value according to his own argument
Low correlation is a good thing when you are considering diversification.
Secondly, it is no longer news that the traditional assets are on the losing ends, we are in a dystopia, and it is going to get worse, bitcoin will therefore grow in value according to his own argument
January 30, 2019, 06:30:35 PM
The world already is a dystopia, but centralized, imaginary, valueless, digital shitcoins are still a garbage fugazi compared to physical metals.
January 30, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.
They're wrong. A booming crypto is a luxury afforded by booming conventional markets. The money going into it doesn't appear from a vacuum. It's from people earning in fiat and cashing out other assets. In several decades it could conceivably be something you could move into and never look back. Until then it's dependent on the health of everything else out there.
January 30, 2019, 06:12:52 PM
I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.
Very true. I've always been troubled by that argument, that economic/stock market or USD collapse will send BTC to the moon. It's something I see very often on this forum.
I'm more of the mindset that Bitcoin and the legacy financial system can co-exist, much like gold does today. Bitcoin is just one form of money. It doesn't need to destroy everything in its path (and it probably won't).
January 30, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
We are watching and see how event unfolding. The cryptocurrencies market has been a talk of these big guys and that means it is something that has good values. Jp Morgan is one of the bank that are going to investing in cryptocurrencies in future.
January 30, 2019, 02:08:04 PM
I feel like some people in Bitcoin community also hold a similar belief, that Bitcoin will go to the moon as soon as fiat, stocks and traditional economy will collapse. So, it seems like both them and JP Morgan think that crypto and fiat can't coexist, and one must fail in order for the other to succeed.
January 30, 2019, 01:37:22 PM
There are tons of cryptocurrencies that fits the description, though bitcoin surely and certainly isn't of those useless coins.
In case of Warren Buffett I would say that he considers every crypto currency to be the same, but in case of JPM, nope. This criminal bank is known to participate in market manipulation, and Bitcoin isn't an exception here; they want you coins for the lowest possible price, and they aren't shy of trashing it in a not so professional manner.
I'm glad that people start to wake up and consider most of what JPM comes up with an attempt to cause the price to tank.
As long as the fines these criminal banks end up paying for their manipulation aren't up there to what they make in profits every quarter or year, they will continue to laugh their way to.... you guessed it.... the bank.
January 30, 2019, 01:14:45 PM
Typical American/Western blindness.
Many parts of the world have dystopian economies right this very moment where you can't trust what's in your pocket or bank account. USD or gold may not be obtainable for people stuck in such places.
Many parts of the world have dystopian economies right this very moment where you can't trust what's in your pocket or bank account. USD or gold may not be obtainable for people stuck in such places.
January 30, 2019, 11:19:41 AM
So does that mean that we're already in a dystopian economy since bitcoin already has its value established on a lot of fronts, or they simply can't accept the fact that there are big names and a lot of people supporting bitcoin even if their projections tell them that it's not supposed to get any value at all. But yeah, knowing how JP Morgan had treated bitcoin for the past years, I can say that this is just another normal statement coming from their end. There are tons of cryptocurrencies that fits the description, though bitcoin surely and certainly isn't of those useless coins.
January 30, 2019, 10:29:36 AM
The strange thing about that note to me is that they must have been really ignorant of the findings in recent years at least from Western economists and government think tanks who are certainly reporting that public trust in these very instruments are at all-time lows. People don't trust the government, they certainly don't trust the financial tools of the state, whether it be the banks or the physical pieces of paper backing their promise to holders.
If that's a dystopia, then certainly, it's already here or at least dawning.
I do agree price and value are not equal, but can't agree that a willing buyer doesn't imply some kind of perceived value. People are willing to pay for something, they perceive a value in it.
Whether you or I see the same value in something as a willing buyer does? Or if you or I see the same value in Bitcoin as the thousands (hey, I'm conservative) of willing buyers at any given time do? Beside the point.
I don't see value in say... pieces of stone that supposedly come from magical beings. Would never pay anything for them. But clearly, people buy them all the time. Who am I to say there's no value in them?
If that's a dystopia, then certainly, it's already here or at least dawning.
"Value" and "Price" are different things. Bitcoin might have a price right now but it doesn't mean it has a "value", there are a billion things in life that doesn't have a "value" if you ask me.
Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.
Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.
Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.
Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.
I do agree price and value are not equal, but can't agree that a willing buyer doesn't imply some kind of perceived value. People are willing to pay for something, they perceive a value in it.
Whether you or I see the same value in something as a willing buyer does? Or if you or I see the same value in Bitcoin as the thousands (hey, I'm conservative) of willing buyers at any given time do? Beside the point.
I don't see value in say... pieces of stone that supposedly come from magical beings. Would never pay anything for them. But clearly, people buy them all the time. Who am I to say there's no value in them?
January 30, 2019, 10:10:35 AM
They'd run out of fud to day to the community. If they can't bring the price down to how much it is since the time Dimon started shitting, its going to backfire to them. The blockchain technology alone speaks for itself and they can't make people see how its going to be flawed if used wisely. Someone in their side should advise them to buy more BTC.
January 30, 2019, 09:49:46 AM
"Value" and "Price" are different things. Bitcoin might have a price right now but it doesn't mean it has a "value", there are a billion things in life that doesn't have a "value" if you ask me.
Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.
Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.
Anything you pay for doesn't have a "value" that suggests the price you pay, even a meal at a very expensive restaurant has a 100$ price tag doesn't really worth that much, it costs maaaybe 20 bucks to make it but they add the brand to it, look at iphones, there are countries where iphone is sold x10 the minimum monthly salary, do you really think it worth a 10 month salary ? Not at all however people still buy it because of the brand.
Value is long gone in our life, there are no more "value" for anything, there is just price and bitcoin has a price that JP Morgan is scared of because the higher it gets the less people will care about them.
January 30, 2019, 05:07:14 AM
Agree with JP Morgan only in realtion to coins which purpous is to transfer capital. Those cryptos value is based only on “dystopia" and .. speculations. Is there any other purpose ?
Cryptos which are not used only to transfer capital but are services based on blockchain that actually serve goods are above that.
Cryptos which are not used only to transfer capital but are services based on blockchain that actually serve goods are above that.
January 29, 2019, 09:48:12 PM
@pooyah87. It is also quite ironic that an institution like JP Morgan brought up the thought of a dystopian economy when their kind are the kind of parasites that feed on the people and bring dystopia.
Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?
Do we thank them for giving bitcoin its value hehehe?
January 28, 2019, 11:07:00 PM
it is just another new negative name that they came up with to attack bitcoin since they can't repeat the same thing like bitcoin is fraud every time. in reality they really are showing their fear of bitcoin. and the more they try the more they show their true panic faces and as bitcoin continues to grow their panic hence their attacks will only increase.
January 28, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
Thank Satoshi that bitcoin was invented because JP Morgan and friends are making the dystopian economy real hehehe.
However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?
Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.
In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.
The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”
JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.
Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan
However, bitcoin already has value, does that imply that we are already in a dystopian economy? Will a higher value also imply that we are deeper into dystopia? Have they run out of fud ideas?
Investment bank JPMorgan Chase has said that cryptocurrencies would only have value in a dystopian economy.
In a recent note to its clients, the firm said that it was skeptical of the value of cryptocurrencies apart from in a “dystopia” where investors have lost confidence in “all major reserve assets (dollar, euro, yen, gold) and in the payments system,” according to a report from Business Insider on Monday.
The banking giant further said that, though cryptocurrencies have a low correlation to traditional asset classes such as shares and bonds, they are not the best bet for diversification. “Low correlations have little value if the hedge asset itself is in a bear market.”
JPMorgan also reportedly said earlier this week that, with prices so low, bitcoin is worth less than the cost to mine it.
Source https://www.coindesk.com/cryptocurrencies-would-only-have-value-in-dystopian-economy-jpmorgan
Jump to: