Author

Topic: Database Error and slow forum (Read 943 times)

full member
Activity: 190
Merit: 505
October 27, 2019, 03:10:00 AM
#70
ctrl 5f didn't solve the problem for me, but to empty the caches did.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1118
October 22, 2019, 08:47:43 AM
#69
I can get around the main site fine but opening my messages just now was excessively slow. I'm not noticing any slowness anywhere else on the forum though, so it could easily be a hiccup and not really represent any real issues. Or perhaps we're just imagining it and this is completely normal nowadays :')
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 22, 2019, 08:46:01 AM
#68
Unlocked: the forum is quite slow, and I once again had an empty page instead of MY MESSAGES.
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 21, 2019, 04:13:28 AM
#67
The forum works fine again, theymos has fixed the problems and responded here, so I'm locking this.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1149
https://bitcoincleanup.com/
October 21, 2019, 12:13:49 AM
#66
Everything looks normal on my end now except the shortcut for bb codes and emojis aren't available. Is it just me?
have you tried click CTRL+F5 before? I have tried it and a few things have changed to normal such as a coin below your rank and else.
try it, it might help you.
keep spamming CTRL+F5, everything will be back to normal.

I tried once yesterday but it didn't work. I just tried the spamming and it worked Grin
hero member
Activity: 2128
Merit: 532
FREE passive income eBook @ tinyurl.com/PIA10
October 20, 2019, 10:53:54 PM
#65
Same, I was wondering why the forum was still "broken" until I used another browser and was puzzled it loaded fine.

legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
October 20, 2019, 09:00:06 PM
#64
Here is the guide to delete the cache on Safari.
Thanks! I did that and BitcoinTalk came back immediately. It was really a cache issue after all.

If anybody is having these issues, clean the cache and data of the browser and try again. It it doesn't work, it will come back soon.
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
October 20, 2019, 06:29:42 PM
#63
I had a similar error on firefox for mobile, but I made some pancakes and it seemed to go away after that Grin...

~snip~

Once it went faster again I kinda liked that style, the quotes didn't really work as well but everything else was great (very minimalistic).
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 2054
October 20, 2019, 06:29:29 PM
#62
These users have been always the most online users.
They always online without do anything post over a years.  Huh

Bitcointalk Seems fine and normal right now.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 3199
October 20, 2019, 05:36:49 PM
#61
There was nothing or an problem at my end or something else i have seen or noticed today or the last days !
Sometimes images after posting this dont load but refresh brings them up.
I am using Firefox Browser and got lately no issues with it when i use Bitcointalk .
hero member
Activity: 2338
Merit: 757
October 20, 2019, 04:47:41 PM
#60
I had the same loading issue with pictures and smileys. Am using my phone, i just cleaned the cash of my chrome browser and it works fine from my end.
Everything is normally loading.
legendary
Activity: 2744
Merit: 1708
First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold
October 20, 2019, 03:46:05 PM
#59
Still, from time to time when I try to load new page I see something like this:



Maybe this is important for the Admin to know that this is still happening occasionally.

But is enough to refresh using F5, CTRL+Shift+R or CTRL+F5 to got the website loaded properly.

Thanks for all the answers and info provided in this thread.

legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 5213
October 20, 2019, 03:08:14 PM
#58
And I don't know how to clean the browser's cache on Safari. Cheesy
Here is the guide to delete the cache on Safari.

Same to me. Last ≈2 hours I have used my Laptop. But did not face any problems. All are fine as like as normal. But now I am using my mobile phone with chrome browser. Facing some problem like this.
Click on more button at top right of the page.
Then click on setting.
Go to privacy and then Clear browsing data. You can clear data at any time range.
(I am not sure it is helpful. But hope it works)
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1189
Need Campaign Manager?PM on telegram @sujonali1819
October 20, 2019, 03:07:20 PM
#57
Snip~~
 I just got into my PC and the Watchlist page is working (first time I visited it today), but in my phone I still get the same error.

Same to me. Last ≈2 hours I have used my Laptop. But did not face any problems. All are fine as like as normal. But now I am using my mobile phone with chrome browser. Facing some problem like this.

legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
October 20, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
#56
I was having this problem for last 1 hour or so. Anyways i have found a solution to this.  
Press CTRL + F5 and the page will load normally.
What sorcery is this? Shocked I never expected a "maintenance error" to disappear after a hard refresh. Refresh your cache - When hitting F5 just isn't enough! explained it a bit, and theymos' post completed the explanation.
I never knew this is possible.
Can't it be that our browser was caching the "down for maintenance" page? I just got into my PC and the Watchlist page is working (first time I visited it today), but in my phone I still get the same error. So the problem is now in the client.

And I don't know how to clean the browser's cache on Safari. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 20, 2019, 01:17:11 PM
#55
I was having this problem for last 1 hour or so. Anyways i have found a solution to this.  
Press CTRL + F5 and the page will load normally.
What sorcery is this? Shocked I never expected a "maintenance error" to disappear after a hard refresh. Refresh your cache - When hitting F5 just isn't enough! explained it a bit, and theymos' post completed the explanation.
I never knew this is possible.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
October 20, 2019, 01:11:49 PM
#54
Why did the forum have a database error?

A hardware issue was degrading performance. The downtime ~6 hours ago may have been due to this alone, or a DDoS attack may have pushed it over the edge; I'm not sure. (I see some unusual traffic in the logs, but it doesn't look that extreme, and it may have been a side-effect of the slowness.) I think that I fixed the performance issue now, at least.
hero member
Activity: 2156
Merit: 711
Telegram @tokensfund
October 20, 2019, 01:05:02 PM
#53

This is how my menu looks.
Note that I did clean my browser history.


No need to clear browser data. just clear -

Cookies and other site data

Cached images & files


if this still not work Use this link for a hard refresh - https://www.getfilecloud.com/blog/2015/03/tech-tip-how-to-do-hard-refresh-in-browsers/
hero member
Activity: 1694
Merit: 541
October 20, 2019, 01:03:15 PM
#52
Why did the forum have a database error?
I am still having issues with the images as it is not loading,  the reason is quoted below from what theymos said.


A hardware issue was degrading performance. The downtime ~6 hours ago may have been due to this alone, or a DDoS attack may have pushed it over the edge; I'm not sure. (I see some unusual traffic in the logs, but it doesn't look that extreme, and it may have been a side-effect of the slowness.) I think that I fixed the performance issue now, at least.
hero member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 669
October 20, 2019, 12:54:02 PM
#51
Neither CTRL+Shift+R or CTRL+F5 fixes it for me, and I don't want to keep performing hard reloads and possibly increasing the strain (even if it's a negligible effect). It's not a huge deal, just looks pretty ugly.

CTRL+SHIFT+R worked well for me, Does anyone know what happened?

Why did the forum have a database error?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 5213
October 20, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
#50
Everything is fine on my android phone. But the forum on windows looks like this on both Chrome and also Firefox:


I deleted cache data on chrome. But it wasn't helpful.
Anyone knows what should I do?

Edit: Solved
I used CTRL+F5 several times. It finally worked.
hero member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 505
October 20, 2019, 12:49:11 PM
#49
Everything looks normal on my end now except the shortcut for bb codes and emojis aren't available. Is it just me?
There is a bit of a issue with the font size other than that everything is normal for me now and that includes bb codes and emojis.
sr. member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 263
October 20, 2019, 12:47:16 PM
#48
Everything looks normal on my end now except the shortcut for bb codes and emojis aren't available. Is it just me?




have you tried click CTRL+F5 before? I have tried it and a few things have changed to normal such as a coin below your rank and else.
try it, it might help you.
keep spamming CTRL+F5, everything will be back to normal.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1149
https://bitcoincleanup.com/
October 20, 2019, 12:32:43 PM
#47
Everything looks normal on my end now except the shortcut for bb codes and emojis aren't available. Is it just me?

legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 20, 2019, 12:30:47 PM
#46


This is how my menu looks.
Note that I did clean my browser history.

PS
I would appreciate some option for alternative dark skin, greyish or dark grey.

EDIT:
ctrl+f5 did the trick
thanks @DaMut
hero member
Activity: 2030
Merit: 578
No God or Kings, only BITCOIN.
October 20, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
#45
Your browsers are caching old 50x errors returned by site assets. You can fix it with a hard refresh, or by using a different browser temporarily, or by clearing your cache, or by waiting up to 4 hours. At this point there's nothing I can do on my end to fix it for you, since it's in your browser. (Errors shouldn't be marked cachable, though: something for me to look into.)
Seems the latter is the best option and to be honest when I wake up as I'm about to sleep I guess this will be over as I can't see my beautiful shiny coins under my username.

copper member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 737
✅ Need Campaign Manager? TG > @TalkStar675
October 20, 2019, 12:15:02 PM
#44
There is lot more issues i am seeing from my end. In some profile showing PM and Email option above trust area. I don't know that is any modification works going on or not. I think icon images also not loading in many section. Hopefully theymos will take a look to solve these things as soon as possible.
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1189
Need Campaign Manager?PM on telegram @sujonali1819
October 20, 2019, 12:09:38 PM
#43
Firstly, when I faced the error I thought that theymos trying to make people fool again like April fool. And I still hoping that theymos will make surprised again us.

Anyway, page loading time fixed well but imoji,photos loading did not fixed yet to me.
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
October 20, 2019, 12:07:04 PM
#42
Your browsers are caching old 50x errors returned by site assets. You can fix it with a hard refresh, or by using a different browser temporarily, or by clearing your cache, or by waiting up to 4 hours. At this point there's nothing I can do on my end to fix it for you, since it's in your browser. (Errors shouldn't be marked cachable, though: something for me to look into.)
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3014
Welt Am Draht
October 20, 2019, 11:45:06 AM
#41
My view is a cross between the wap2 one and the main one with most of the images and colouration dead but with normal ish formatting.

It's no longer slow for me. It is definitely a bit buggered.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1329
Stultorum infinitus est numerus
October 20, 2019, 11:43:17 AM
#40
I'm assuming this is theymos' attempt at art. In all seriousness, I'm guessing this current layout issues is due to editing some code, and temporarily breaking something?

Probably, the performance seems a lot better now. The site is snappy and I can easily change from page to page without any problems. Nevertheless, I think theymos changed a few settings to fix the database load problem which probably messed up some theme settings on the database so... it basically does not load most of the theme settings, as far as it seems.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 20, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
#39
Somebody has been playing to much or scary humanrishfoundation rage revenge strikes back  Shocked
Anyway it is not funny at all.
staff
Activity: 3290
Merit: 4114
October 20, 2019, 11:38:56 AM
#38
I'm assuming this is theymos' attempt at art. In all seriousness, I'm guessing this current layout issues is due to editing some code, and temporarily breaking something?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1727
Be A Hope
October 20, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
#37
I still look like this: http://prntscr.com/plui53
legendary
Activity: 3094
Merit: 1069
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
October 20, 2019, 11:36:27 AM
#36
I got this error (only once twice):
Quote
Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator.

But I've also seen MY MESSAGES totally empty until a reload, and loading most pages takes quite a while. Does the server need some TLC?

I'm not getting most of icons and images on the forum. Clearing cookies doesn't help. Though I'm not having any other significant issues for navigation.
Externally hosted images display correctly. Maybe the forum is going through some minor upgrades and we are to see some changes on the occasion of 10th Anniversary.
sr. member
Activity: 784
Merit: 251
October 20, 2019, 11:28:12 AM
#35
may have improved, and a few minutes ago I could not access at all.

it's just that the current appearance is a little more strange.

legendary
Activity: 1584
Merit: 1280
Heisenberg Design Services
October 20, 2019, 11:24:38 AM
#34
Probably should be a bad and stronger DDOS since the whole forum is acting too strangely for quite some time. I don't get either the online status and also the rank coins are totally empty and displaying it as '*****' for Legendary users. The new post icon at the left side of each board is not being displayed but on the other hand the forum doesn't take a very longer time to load each page. Mainly the icons and smileys are missing from all the pages and are being replaced with text.  Sad
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1118
October 20, 2019, 11:20:07 AM
#33
I was having this problem for last 1 hour or so. Anyways i have found a solution to this.  
Press CTRL + F5 and the page will load normally.
Neither CTRL+Shift+R or CTRL+F5 fixes it for me, and I don't want to keep performing hard reloads and possibly increasing the strain (even if it's a negligible effect). It's not a huge deal, just looks pretty ugly.
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 10802
There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain
October 20, 2019, 11:20:00 AM
#32
About an hour ago or so, I did capture an error message that I’ve not seen reported before: Error #2024859659 (it occurred when trying to follow a link to a given thread). Posting it just in case it’s any use.
hero member
Activity: 2926
Merit: 567
October 20, 2019, 11:15:41 AM
#31
Glad that's it's back I have to use Privazer to check if it is about my cookies and also check various downorjustme similar sites I found out that they are not accurate because Bitcointalk is really down but on their list, it's up all five of those server checkers
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
October 20, 2019, 11:13:20 AM
#30
I just got access to the forum again after some tries earlier, seems the distress and maintenance is over?

it seems the MT has over but there is still a few parts that not load properly like avatar, symbols, and others
example:
 
administrator
Activity: 5222
Merit: 13032
October 20, 2019, 11:12:58 AM
#29
A hardware issue was degrading performance. The downtime ~6 hours ago may have been due to this alone, or a DDoS attack may have pushed it over the edge; I'm not sure. (I see some unusual traffic in the logs, but it doesn't look that extreme, and it may have been a side-effect of the slowness.) I think that I fixed the performance issue now, at least.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
October 20, 2019, 11:09:27 AM
#28
the number and quality of art submissions were too much that bitcointalk's graphic card blew up trying to process them all.
legendary
Activity: 2758
Merit: 6830
October 20, 2019, 11:07:01 AM
#27
The watch list page shows this for me every time:

Quote
Down for maintenance, be back soon (503)
The forum is down for maintenance. Try again in a few minutes.

503 via master1

And I’m constantly getting a Gateway error from Cloud Flare. That’s the first first time I got into the forum in a while.
copper member
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1305
Limited in number. Limitless in potential.
October 20, 2019, 11:06:31 AM
#26
I just got access to the forum again after some tries earlier, seems the distress and maintenance is over?
legendary
Activity: 2436
Merit: 1189
Need Campaign Manager?PM on telegram @sujonali1819
October 20, 2019, 11:06:12 AM
#25
Why this error ? Is theymos making any update?
I have been faced this problem since 2 hours.


legendary
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6948
Top Crypto Casino
October 20, 2019, 11:02:00 AM
#24
theymos got a wicked hangover after partying all night with the mods from the Russian section
LOL. 

I've been getting the same message for the past couple of hours, though I was just able to post something a minute ago.  Ah well, this happens from time to time--no big deal.

I half expected that when the forum came back online the new forum software would have been rolled out and I'd be viewing a completely different version of bitcointalk.  Sadly, not to be.

I think it's a DDoS.
Maybe attackers are trying to make trouble for the forum on its 10th anniversary.
Hmm.  That could be and if not it certainly is quite a coincidence.

hero member
Activity: 2366
Merit: 866
October 20, 2019, 11:01:17 AM
#23
I was having this problem for last 1 hour or so. Anyways i have found a solution to this.  
Press CTRL + F5 and the page will load normally.


global moderator
Activity: 3766
Merit: 2610
In a world of peaches, don't ask for apple sauce
October 20, 2019, 10:59:52 AM
#22
Had the "Connection Problems" error page just now. No clue as to why the forum's acting up.





I've got the same thing going on also. I wonder if it's due to something failing or if it's intentional to reduce the load put on the server.
I assume failing. IIRC most static assets should be cached and served by Cloudflare, especially for the non-changing SMF forum UI elements. I assume that after the cache expired and Cloudflare failed to load the assets, it just dropped errors for those requests. You should be able to check the network tab on your browser (on Firefox: right mouse button, letter Q, select "Network", refresh page) to see if any of those requests are returning error codes.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1118
October 20, 2019, 10:59:18 AM
#21


I've got the same thing going on also. I wonder if it's due to something failing or if it's intentional to reduce the load put on the server.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1329
Stultorum infinitus est numerus
October 20, 2019, 10:58:03 AM
#20


Spooky.
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1329
Stultorum infinitus est numerus
October 20, 2019, 09:04:51 AM
#19
Started getting this about 15-30 minutes ago also. No clue what it is and I'm not going to speculate, I don't think it fuels constructive conversations to have everyone go "it's a DDoS/could be a DDoS" any time the server has issues. We'll find out soon enough anyway.

Is there an IRC chat or something similar for Bitcointalk discussion when the server goes down?

I believe there was a channel on Freenode like 6 years ago but it must be deprecated by now. Not many people use IRC anymore, it's all Discord and Telegram nowadays.
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 5213
October 20, 2019, 08:54:08 AM
#18
same here
Code:
Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.
who is :
btcnfan
froastie
randomnessie
bcfan
micey
liliam
Saw them on most time online : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats


It's not something new. These users have been always the most online users. I don't know what's the problem with the stats. They have been online more than age of the forum.

I think it's a DDoS.
Maybe attackers are trying to make trouble for the forum on its 10th anniversary.
Theymos will likely make a post regarding the issue soon.
legendary
Activity: 1134
Merit: 1118
October 20, 2019, 08:46:27 AM
#17
Started getting this about 15-30 minutes ago also. No clue what it is and I'm not going to speculate, I don't think it fuels constructive conversations to have everyone go "it's a DDoS/could be a DDoS" any time the server has issues. We'll find out soon enough anyway.

Is there an IRC chat or something similar for Bitcointalk discussion when the server goes down?
legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 3911
October 20, 2019, 08:40:06 AM
#16
But I've also seen MY MESSAGES totally empty until a reload, and loading most pages takes quite a while. Does the server need some TLC?
I have a problem with this error[1], it lasted for several months unresolved so I thought it was a normal problem.
Yesterday I got some mistakes related to 422 Errors.
This morning (GMT+4) I had a lot of problems surfing the site but now all the problems have disappeared & the site is running slowly. "There are no errors"
Perhaps it is DDos attacks or related to another thing which will be public on Tuesday[2].

[1] Session verification failed error | Brave shields
[2]
Quote
Another thing which I will make public on Tuesday, probably. It's a temporary forum feature similar to past april fools things in some ways, though not a prank.
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 2054
October 20, 2019, 08:36:07 AM
#15
same here
Code:
Connection Problems
Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.
who is :
btcnfan
froastie
randomnessie
bcfan
micey
liliam
Saw them on most time online : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
October 20, 2019, 08:35:16 AM
#14
Okay guys, I am taking off whatever I said before LOL
I join the party :-P
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1491
I forgot more than you will ever know.
October 20, 2019, 08:28:03 AM
#13
Considering the fact that the frontend is hosted on Cloudflare, is someone attacking the database server?

I'm not sure how the system is designed but the database server shouldn't be open to such an attack.

And regarding Ddos, I'm no specialist regarding Cloudflare but this shouldn't be happening during an actual attack. The DDos shouldn't hit the actual server, but Cloudflare's
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 7064
October 20, 2019, 08:13:17 AM
#12
Reporting the same thing.
Everything is super slow... opening topics, posting, sending merits...
I hope this can be fixed soon
legendary
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1329
Stultorum infinitus est numerus
October 20, 2019, 08:10:14 AM
#11
It's still going on. On top of that, it went down for me more than 15 times in the past half an hour now. The browsing and posting experience is fairly slow and I am constantly receiving the "Connection Problems" message. Considering the fact that the frontend is hosted on Cloudflare, is someone attacking the database server?
legendary
Activity: 2380
Merit: 5213
October 20, 2019, 07:58:08 AM
#10
The website is working very slow, but I don't get any error.

I remember there was a same problem in 2017 bull run. That time I got error every minute.

It's a DDoS, I'm working on it.

And that was why Theymos decided to use Cloudflare.

With regret, I am (for now) admitting defeat on the DDoS front, and we will soon be using using Cloudflare to protect against DDoS attacks. This change is in progress, and will take ~24 hours for everyone to see.

Edit:
Got this error few seconds ago.
"Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later."
legendary
Activity: 3276
Merit: 2442
October 20, 2019, 07:45:05 AM
#9
Somebody is DDOS'ing the shit out of the forum. It is not just today. Almost every day for a very long time, every time I click the "post" button either it takes long ass time to post or double posts. Today it became unbearable it lags so much even when browsing.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 596
October 20, 2019, 07:42:02 AM
#8
I haven't got any error so far but it is slow on posting & browsing from my location.
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1491
I forgot more than you will ever know.
October 20, 2019, 07:32:00 AM
#7
Came here looking for this.

Got about 10 of these when trying to access multiple pages at once.

Posting is slow af as well. Seems to be slowly improving over the last hour tho.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 2036
October 20, 2019, 07:28:53 AM
#6
For the last couple hours browsing, posting and what not have been super slow with the occasional return to normal speeds much like right now. I haven't had any error messages though
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 3878
Hire Bitcointalk Camp. Manager @ r7promotions.com
October 20, 2019, 06:33:51 AM
#5
If you guys are talking about right now then in my side I am having lightning speed :-P

Anyone know the hardware specs of the database server?
Are you going to buy some bandwidth and additional storage for us :-D
Vod
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 3010
Licking my boob since 1970
October 20, 2019, 06:31:16 AM
#4
It's slow to post for me.  Actually, browsing is slow as well.

This forum normally functions very well.   Anyone know the hardware specs of the database server?
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 4392
Be a bank
October 20, 2019, 06:26:45 AM
#3
theymos got a wicked hangover after partying all night with the mods from the Russian section
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1252
Heisenberg
October 20, 2019, 06:21:31 AM
#2
True, the speed has noticeably been slow this morning even when replying posts.

I just got this error message a few moments back.

legendary
Activity: 3290
Merit: 16489
Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
October 20, 2019, 06:12:04 AM
#1
I got this error (only once twice):
Quote
Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator.

But I've also seen MY MESSAGES totally empty until a reload, and loading most pages takes quite a while. Does the server need some TLC?
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