Davos 2023: Saudi Arabia 'open' to discuss trading in non-dollar currencies

DrBeer

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You can speculate for a long time how dependent the prince's family is, or they are preparing a "conspiracy against America", but these are all theories. Practice is where it is.
Trading for other currencies than the dollar is not new, and there is nothing strange or scary here. But there are nuances:
1. International prices are fixed in dollars. So "acceptance of other currencies" will be a simple conversion of the DOLLAR, at a given RATE, into a new currency.
2. No one will accept currencies that are either artificially held or have no real backing of the real economy and technology. For example, such currencies include the ruble. But the Indian rupee is quite suitable for an alternative deal. The economy is large, the rupee is provided by the real sectors of the economy and not by the delirium of an elderly crazy under-furrer

3. In addition, such currencies must be highly liquid, must not only be accepted by the currency issuing country, not be subject to noticeable inflation, or be in an area of turbulence, such as the yuan.

coupable

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 27, 2023, 11:33:28 AM

Quote from: coupable on January 27, 2023, 09:58:48 AM

Despite all the official and media statements, it is not so easy for Saudi Arabia to abandon the US dollar in its foreign exchange, especially in the oil market. Even if it announced its willingness to accept other currencies, the buyers may not actually seek it, given the linkage of their economies to the dollar, in addition to the economic and political dependence as well.

I agree. The al-Saud family is too dependent on US to do anything against US regime's wish. In fact each time they try to disobey the orders and go "rogue" a bunch of issues are brought up that silences them from their leadership in 9/11 to various human rights violations.

Exactly. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in particular cannot deviate from the will of America. It is also not surprising that some Saudi officials may declare that they are seeking to disengage (dependence), but the decision-makers know that this is almost impossible, at least now.
Bin Laden, accused of the September 2001 bombings, is a Saudi. America did not pay attention to this point and went to destroy Afghanistan. To this day, the American administration refuses to acknowledge that Jamal Khashoggi was killed by Saudi Arabia. It can also be said that America protects the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the region.
And the Saudis are not stupid to forget that if they abandon the use of the dollar in their foreign exchange, then they will declare direct hostility. It is more likely that Saudi Arabia is only seeking to continue exchanges with China, and not that it really intends to abandon the dollar.

pooya87

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Quote from: coupable on January 27, 2023, 09:58:48 AM

Despite all the official and media statements, it is not so easy for Saudi Arabia to abandon the US dollar in its foreign exchange, especially in the oil market. Even if it announced its willingness to accept other currencies, the buyers may not actually seek it, given the linkage of their economies to the dollar, in addition to the economic and political dependence as well.

I agree. The al-Saud family is too dependent on US to do anything against US regime's wish. In fact each time they try to disobey the orders and go "rogue" a bunch of issues are brought up that silences them from their leadership in 9/11 to various human rights violations.

coupable

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 27, 2023, 05:37:22 AM

Quote from: el kaka22 on January 25, 2023, 12:18:51 PM

I agree that they will keep using dollars to settle all their financial matters, but if they move a bit towards Riyal, that would really help them out a lot, would make their money stronger, but having that much dollar in the nation helps them anyway.

Euro is another strong currency and they could accept it, and after all USA is not enemy with Europe, they are friends, specially considering how they have a dislike towards Russia together. Which means if SA ever decides to accept Ruble? Now that would be a trouble for USA. Russia is already in trouble with mild winter and not much need for gas by anyone, so if SA ever saves them by accepting Ruble, that would be trouble, but if not, then euro or dollar doesn't matter that much.

The challenge US faces is not what they are replacing US dollar with, but the fact that they are (or may) replace it. It makes very little difference whether they choose EUR or CNY or RUB, the US economy is alive because of Petrodollar.
Besides Saudi family is not respected in the global scene for any country to use their currency, so far any talks of replacing dollar was with CNY with their Chinese buyers.

Despite all the official and media statements, it is not so easy for Saudi Arabia to abandon the US dollar in its foreign exchange, especially in the oil market. Even if it announced its willingness to accept other currencies, the buyers may not actually seek it, given the linkage of their economies to the dollar, in addition to the economic and political dependence as well.
I support your idea that this announcement from Saudi Arabia is tantamount to an agreement to accept the Chinese yuan in its exchanges with China in particular, and this was expected after the recent rapprochement between the two countries.

pooya87

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Quote from: el kaka22 on January 25, 2023, 12:18:51 PM

I agree that they will keep using dollars to settle all their financial matters, but if they move a bit towards Riyal, that would really help them out a lot, would make their money stronger, but having that much dollar in the nation helps them anyway.

Euro is another strong currency and they could accept it, and after all USA is not enemy with Europe, they are friends, specially considering how they have a dislike towards Russia together. Which means if SA ever decides to accept Ruble? Now that would be a trouble for USA. Russia is already in trouble with mild winter and not much need for gas by anyone, so if SA ever saves them by accepting Ruble, that would be trouble, but if not, then euro or dollar doesn't matter that much.

The challenge US faces is not what they are replacing US dollar with, but the fact that they are (or may) replace it. It makes very little difference whether they choose EUR or CNY or RUB, the US economy is alive because of Petrodollar.
Besides Saudi family is not respected in the global scene for any country to use their currency, so far any talks of replacing dollar was with CNY with their Chinese buyers.

el kaka22

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I agree that they will keep using dollars to settle all their financial matters, but if they move a bit towards Riyal, that would really help them out a lot, would make their money stronger, but having that much dollar in the nation helps them anyway.

Euro is another strong currency and they could accept it, and after all USA is not enemy with Europe, they are friends, specially considering how they have a dislike towards Russia together. Which means if SA ever decides to accept Ruble? Now that would be a trouble for USA. Russia is already in trouble with mild winter and not much need for gas by anyone, so if SA ever saves them by accepting Ruble, that would be trouble, but if not, then euro or dollar doesn't matter that much.

Don Pedro Dinero

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That's what I thought, the last one I remember was Gadaffi, and we can see how he ended up. Although I would say that things are different, the balance of power has changed, and I don't see under what pretext the US could take military action against Saudi Arabia if they decide to dump the petrodollar standard. Although unthinkable things have been seen when there is a lot of money and power at stake.

pooya87

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I have been saying this for a long time that the world is dumping US dollar as trade currency. This is another piece in that ongoing trend. It won't kill Petrodollar entirely though since US still has many colonies that will continue using dollar including Saudi regime and even Europe. But it will definitely weaken US dollar over the coming years.

As for Saudi reasons, I believe it is just their way of getting some kicks in while seeing US is down on the ground because they won't get any other chance for doing it.
They are also putting this type of pressure on US regime because they are angry with their defeat in their invasion of their neighbor which was backed by US and the billions of dollars worth of weapons US sold them proved to be useless.
This is also why they are getting closer to US adversary China and are even selling some oil to China using CNY instead of USD.

The real question is what would US regime do? Historically they've always invaded and destroyed any country that has tried doing that.....

coupable

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Quote from: Hispo on January 23, 2023, 08:21:59 AM

There are powerful governments, people and companies that would push against the replacement of the Petro-dollar, that is for sure.
If was in charge of the economy of an oil producing country and I would actually like to diversify the currencies accepted in exchange for oil, I would continue to accept USD and EUR, but I would also accept Bitcoin and gold bars.

Quitting the USD would certainly negatively affect the diplomacy with USA.

Saudi Arabia was affected by what is happening as a result of the Ukrainian war, after Russia decided to accept the Russian ruble only in return for its energy exports.
This is related to the extent of the US administration's interaction with the matter. I do not expect much to happen and that these statements from officials may not, in fact, reflect the official position of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

AmoreJaz

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Quote from: bnbstorm on January 24, 2023, 02:11:12 PM

Quote from: Majestic-milf on January 23, 2023, 01:34:56 PM

I wouldn't blame the decision of the Saudi financial Minister to boycott the use of the dollar. I mean, countries would have to get tired of the numerous sanctions placed on trade sometime.
The actions of the US on placing sanctions on trade and also trying to profit hugely from deficits since basically oil is being priced in dollars will certainly have a cumulative effect and I guess this is it.

I somewhat agree with this. Countries are tired or sanctions when they have options to trade in gold and Bitcoin.

maybe its time to explore other trading options rather than sticking to the US dollar only. they will know if there's advantage of this move after this implementation. if they will see good results, definitely, they will continue but if not, they may go back to the dollar. either way, each government has their own prerogative when it comes to trading in my opinion. so long it is beneficial to their economy, why not?

Fortify

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Quote from: Husires on January 20, 2023, 01:06:55 PM

Quote

Saudi Finance Minister Mohammed Al-Jadaan said on Tuesday that the kingdom is open to trading in currencies aside from the US dollar in order to “improve trade.”

“There are no issues with discussing how we settle our trade arrangements, whether it is in the US dollar, whether it is the euro, whether it is the Saudi riyal,” Jadaan told Bloomberg at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

Why it matters: Jadaan’s comments are the latest indication some Middle Eastern states are moving away from the US dollar — albeit slightly. Last year, The Wall Street Journal reported that Saudi Arabia was considering pricing oil sales to China in the yuan.
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I believe that there will be no change in the issue of petrodollars without the occurrence of a world war, and from there we must ask what Saudi Arabia wants to make such a statement. I see that there is an attempt to pressure Saudi Arabia against the United States.

We also remember:
Relations have been strained after the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and many things that make the relationship between the two countries need a negotiation session.

Saudi Arabia is not blind to the power that China is slowly accruing around the world and it's almost always a good financial opportunity to diversify your income. America gets to wield a lot of economic and political leverage by being the dominant reserve currency of the world, but the Saudi Arabian leadership are trying to reduce the potential for outside pressure. They currently have a fairly good position because they are often backed as the counter to Iran in the region, however the Saudi government sometimes does some extremely reprehensible things like the killing of the journalist in the Turkish embassy. America will no doubt keep this in mind with who they choose to support in future but everyone is playing their own geopolitical game.

bnbstorm

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on January 23, 2023, 01:34:56 PM

I wouldn't blame the decision of the Saudi financial Minister to boycott the use of the dollar. I mean, countries would have to get tired of the numerous sanctions placed on trade sometime.
The actions of the US on placing sanctions on trade and also trying to profit hugely from deficits since basically oil is being priced in dollars will certainly have a cumulative effect and I guess this is it.

I somewhat agree with this. Countries are tired or sanctions when they have options to trade in gold and Bitcoin.

Majestic-milf

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I wouldn't blame the decision of the Saudi financial Minister to boycott the use of the dollar. I mean, countries would have to get tired of the numerous sanctions placed on trade sometime.
The actions of the US on placing sanctions on trade and also trying to profit hugely from deficits since basically oil is being priced in dollars will certainly have a cumulative effect and I guess this is it.

Hispo

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There are powerful governments, people and companies that would push against the replacement of the Petro-dollar, that is for sure.
If was in charge of the economy of an oil producing country and I would actually like to diversify the currencies accepted in exchange for oil, I would continue to accept USD and EUR, but I would also accept Bitcoin and gold bars.

Quitting the USD would certainly negatively affect the diplomacy with USA.

Wind_FURY

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If your country's leaders went to Davos, or ordered to send delegates to Davos, let that be a warning that they are selling/shilling something in exchange for something more advantageous, or more beneficial to the buyer. The needing party always makes the necessary sacrifices to the buying party.

Husires

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Quote

Saudi Finance Minister Mohammed Al-Jadaan said on Tuesday that the kingdom is open to trading in currencies aside from the US dollar in order to “improve trade.”

“There are no issues with discussing how we settle our trade arrangements, whether it is in the US dollar, whether it is the euro, whether it is the Saudi riyal,” Jadaan told Bloomberg at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

Why it matters: Jadaan’s comments are the latest indication some Middle Eastern states are moving away from the US dollar — albeit slightly. Last year, The Wall Street Journal reported that Saudi Arabia was considering pricing oil sales to China in the yuan.
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Source: https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2023/01/davos-2023-saudi-arabia-open-discuss-trading-non-dollar-currencies

I believe that there will be no change in the issue of petrodollars without the occurrence of a world war, and from there we must ask what Saudi Arabia wants to make such a statement. I see that there is an attempt to pressure Saudi Arabia against the United States.

We also remember:

Relations have been strained after the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi and many things that make the relationship between the two countries need a negotiation session.

Topic: Davos 2023: Saudi Arabia 'open' to discuss trading in non-dollar currencies (Read 167 times)