Topic: Debunking a few crypto myths - governments that allegedly own Bitcoin. (Read 288 times)

If a government has already sold the bitcoins that they confiscated in the process of trying to stop citizens from making use of Bitcoin, then it shouldn’t be counted that they have or are in possession of any Bitcoin at all, because they have already sold it and it doesn’t belong to them anymore. But, I do wonder where all these governments are selling the coins they size from citizens who insist on make use of cryptocurrency after it has been banned in the country. Do they sell it to exchanges that are in other countries or they auction it to just any of the rich guys in their country?

I am not surprised by the amount of hypocrisy among governments, unfortunately there is corruption everywhere, whether in the governments of rich or poor countries, on the one hand they ban Bitcoin and mining and on the other hand they seize Bitcoin and sell it at auction (maybe they invest large amounts of it in secret) or They confiscate the mining hardware and secretly operate them as well, this is a big hypocrisy that revolves around filling their pockets with dirty money, after all this they go out to talk in front of the cameras about the high risk of investing bitcoin or polluting the atmosphere and electricity consumption due to mining.

Minor quibble, it's everything that had has the court cases completed has been auctioned.
There are still a lot in the hands of the US government sitting there waiting for the trials / appeals / etc. to be finished.
Some of it will probably be in their hands for years with the speed that some of these cases are moving.

-Dave

So what's the point of even mentioning them as they will seize those funds and sell them ASAP
For example, even in the link about Australia, the plan is clear:


https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/85873/china-seize-billion-cryptos-from-plustoken-crackdown

At a quick glance, maybe 80% in BTC? Or a bit more?

I mentioned the case of Bulgaria and China, which are most often referred to as the governments that allegedly have the most BTC in their possession. As for the links you mentioned, it is generally about the seizure of cryptocurrencies that include altcoins, not Bitcoin exclusively. If a government has 1 million Faketoshi coins or 2 million Roger Judas coins, who should care for that.


Seizure and investment are different things, especially if there is no intention to keep the seized coin - and as you say, they all sell it sooner or later, otherwise, they would give legitimacy to something they are fundamentally opposed to.

So okay, we know what was seized. But do we know if anyone verified on blockchain is any or all of these seizures (I'm thinking especially the one from China) were actual Bitcoins, and not just some account on exchanges or some Bitcoin derivatives etc.

The UK I do remember had auctions for seized BTC and other crypto (I actually signed up and I remember the winning bids were actually priced higher than market rates haha) but can't say much for the others.

#OP, I see you are not mentioning the bitcoins that has been confiscated by governments?

Examples :

U.S. government $1.2 billion - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/04/irs-has-seized-1point2-billion-worth-of-cryptocurrency-this-year-.html

UK government  $158 million - https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/06/25/uk-police-seize-160-million-in-cryptocurrency-in-money-laundering-investigation/

Australia - $1.2 million - https://news.bitcoin.com/australian-police-confiscate-cryptocurrency-worth-1-million-with-help-from-fbi/

So these governments do not have to buy these coins with tax payers money, because they can simply confiscate it from people that used it in crime (including tax evasion)

I have my doubts that they are hoarding all these coins as an investment, because the Silkroad coins were sold on auction as soon as the court case was done. 

So, how have poeple managed to get those details, and if I could understand the 4.5 cents that 198.1 is too precise to not be either an official statement or just a random number is thrown away! Besides, that would not be such big deal at all for a dictator, even if he doesn't pay a cent for electricity or for the miner itself and bets efficiency miners (doubt bitfurry has the chips) and we only think for the profit it will take him about 2 centuries to double his public known wealth.

Besides, when I hear about Bitfury I tend to ignore the number hype, they have two recent major screw-ups with hut8, hard to understand why a company like that would purchase miners from microbt one year in advance while still being partially owned by bitfury..

But that aside, as Lucius pointed out, it's not government money, just how those 50k in Bitcoin Sen Lummis has aren't owned by the US.


Depending on what kind of map we use, probably Estonia is one exception, although with the latest news...
I think that sometimes perception is misleading, tot really sure about those rankings in corruption, I mean I don't see Slovenia as an example compared to both the Czech Republic and Slovakia, nor can I picture Botswana ranking where it does.

And which Eastern European country is not full of nepotism and corruption, regardless of whether that country is ruled by a dictator or a party? There are huge differences between East and West when it comes to Europe, and Georgia is geographically located where Europe ends and Asia begins. Yet this is completely OT given what the topic is here.

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It is then still a private venture, regardless of whether the authorities use their official position to put profits in their pockets - which is again a problem of the undemocratic system in that country.

Okay, Georgia is a very small country and you know, in small countries everyone knows everyone and it's full of rumors but overall, nothing hides in a small country. Officially, the government of Georgia doesn't hold any bitcoins but at the same time, don't look at Georgia like a normal European country, it's full of nepotism and corruption. Also, don't judge any country from the standards and the quality of life of your country, just my advice!

Georgia is literally owned by one oligarch - Bidzina Ivanishvili. Prime Minister, President, etc, are just his puppies who will do whatever BI will tell them. They opened Bitfury Mining Datacenter in Tbilisi, years ago. Officially, BI isn't connected with Bitfury but the government made an exclusive law for them - Free Zone, i.e. Bitfury can import mining equipments without paying any tax, they can operate, profit without paying any tax and the electricity cost for them is enormously low - 0.045 cent and they consume 198.1 million kWh in year. Unofficially, BI takes the profit from that mining datacenter and people call it BI's mining center instead of Bitfury.

Meanwhile, unlike rumors, some things happen for real in Albania:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/albania-declares-state-of-energy-emergency-amid-energy-crisis/
So, with the dams being empty how is he mining in this "secret" tunnel?  
Besides, if in November there are 24°C near the largest dam and 25°C near the second lake I wouldn't call it a very cold place!

But, about the SR coins, I'm currently unaware of the second batch being auctioned, the ~70k from "individual X" that was basically gifted to the DoJ last year.
The U.S. Marshals Service previously stated they will no longer auction coins since their partnership with a crypto custodian but I don't have any detailed info other than one paragraph news article about this.

But it is still a private investment, not an official project of their government. This does not mean that the country invests in cryptocurrency, but that as in most countries where electricity is cheap, there are individuals who have seen crypto mining as a profit opportunity.

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Strange that you are not familiar with the fate of Bitcoins that were seized when Silk Road was shut down and its owner Ross Ulbricht was arrested and sentenced to life imprisonment (x2). The seized Bitcoins were sold at auctions in 2014 and 2015, and one part that was the subject of a dispute with Ross Ulbricht was eventually sold in 2017.


Did you see the warning at the beginning of the article?

I remember news about Bulgaria seizing huge amount of BTC. But also news that government sold all BTC also spread wide back then. But seems this myth is still alive. Well, unfortunately, fake news tend to spread quickly and widely and later it turns into such myths.
BTW, how about Bitcoin seized from Silk Roard marketplace? From what I read, it's still in control of US.

They say here in Albania the brother of the Prime Minister has a big tunnel somewhere in the north,a real big one that is near big hydro centrals in very cold places and that is mining with a huge number of ASICS and GPU rigs since early 2021.Most probably the government should have made quite some Bitcoins now as they are planning to pass a law for people to pay taxes over Bitcoin and crypto probably in 2023 or 2024.

Like in Ukraine even here in Albania everyone is trying to launder their dirty money made by big corruption going on in the government.They even arrest occasionally people that own mining devices but that are stealing energy and then they threaten everyone to remove such devices because it burden the electric network as the reason of such claims,it is becoming difficult to mine here.

The problem with this claim, and I will use the direct words of the mentioned service provider, is that when these declarations were made, Ukraine didn't have any regulations for crypto, so the officials could declare any amounts and they weren't required to show signature or even addresses. It is suspected that this is an attempt to legalize their dirty money.

Ukraine already made some important steps towards legal recognition of crypto, so maybe soon it will be clear exactly how many coins they own.

In an attempt to dispel some myths that are still solid facts for some members, or are in the realm of mere conjecture - using publicly available data we can conclude the following:

The Bulgarian government owns 200 000+ BTC

- Although the exact amount of BTCs seized has never been officially announced, we can say with certainty that according to the Bulgarian Finance Minister, their government has sold all Bitcoin, and the last transactions were made in April 2018.


China owns 200 000 BTC

- In the process of investigation against PlusToken scam, China seized about 190 000 BTC and about 830 000 ETH, but as in the case of Bulgaria, they sold all the coins and the money ended up in the state treasury.


Source


China will suffer great financial damage due to the ban on crypto mining

- China's GDP should reach about $15.6 trillion at the end of this year, and with simple mathematics, we can calculate that banning BTC mining in that country does not cause almost any financial damage. Even if 100% of mining were in China, with 900 BTC a day we get 328 500 BTC per year, so if we calculated their value today we only get $19.71 billion + mining fees which might average about $1-2 million a day. All this together is an amount that will not upset even the most sensitive member of the CP of China.


Ukraine and Georgia own Bitcoin

- Completely incorrect, because although there are various rumors that politicians in the two countries have privately invested in some cryptocurrencies, it has nothing to do with the official position of their governments.

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