Topic: Decentralize Bitcointalk (Read 715 times)

WEF agrees with you:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/01/india-will-overtake-the-us-economy-by-2030/

Maybe that's part of the agenda... maybe.

Laughable why?

Who's going to laugh when China invades Taiwan?

Who's going to laugh when TSMC stops working, West will no longer be able to find high-end microchips and due to scarcity an iPhone suddenly costs $10000?

Don't you think there's a slight possibility that this will trigger hyperinflation that will absolutely melt every single fiat currency? (perfect opportunity to introduce CBDC as a "New Deal")

Before you dismiss this scenario, keep in mind nobody expected Russia to invade Ukraine. Nobody expected the EU to suffer 1.5 trillion € losses.

Scripta manent, feel free to screenshot me for future reference and I sincerely hope you're right and I'm wrong.

The dollar as we know if is already losing dominance at a significant rate, and it is already inflating. Will the dollar be gone in 2027? Maybe not completely...though nations may just use currencies built by their nation or nations that they support more than the US. The blockchain and subsequent technology allows nations to set themselves free from the USD, whether it be with a newly created currency (like what we see with BRICS and the Digital Yuan) or an existing one (like El Salvador adopting Bitcoin).

Will the dollar be gone by 2027? Unlikely.
Will the state of the dollar be better or worse between now and 2027?
In my opinion, the state of it will be near abysmal, and definitely better than where it is at the moment...the supply will be exponentially higher, the world will be or have found alternative currencies for trade, and the people will probably doing what they can to stay out of fiat outside of the absolute need to use it wherever applicable.


Decentralized websites can and will only be sanctioned if there is illegal activity happening on them, though that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be stopped if they are truly decentralized. Look into and take the case of TornadoCash as an example...and bear in mind that it is a crypto-based 'mixing' application, where addresses can be put on blacklists and there can be risks associated to blockchain labels when using it post-sanction...this isn't the same when we talk about a decentralized forum use-case.

People just say whatever they feel like without thinking things through. The "de-dollaration" talk is one very exaggerated talk,  but I guess that's what propaganda is. OP really believes the dollar would be dead in 2027, that's in 4 years. Laughable.
That's by the way, what makes OP so sure that a decentralized website cannot face restrictions from the government.
Bitcoin is decentralized but faces heavy restrictions in many countries.

They talk about Bitcoin ETF getting confirmed and now you talk about bitcoin getting banned, so funny and strange

You guys have no idea what you want. Do any of you think that fully decentralized forum will be the best option and attract many people? Let's be frank, create decentralized forum yourself and try to deal with things that include uploading of illegal material, increased number of scammers, spammers, increased number of threats and so on. I believe that many people talk about decentralized bitcointalk because they want mixer signature campaigns to come back but if bitcointalk gets decentralized and loses many customers or face other problems, there will be no high paying mixer signature campaigns too.

Let's be frank again, do you guys feel that you are censored and can't post whatever you want? Does anyone ban you for different opinion? Will you get banned if you promote Ripple over Bitcoin or something like that? This forum is as free as possible. At least I have never felt limited here, so, please explain to me, why do you feel limited?

It will take some time to write something up that is not just viable, but difficult to oppose or refute its viability as well. If I worked full or part time on the project, it'd may not take as long as it will, however my time barely permits me to do much outside of my commitments as is. I will do my best in any case as I know that it is possible.

I'm aware of freenet and other solutions however they are outdated solutions. We have web3 now, and with web3, there are endless technological advancements that came with it that can enable decentralization of some features and elements that previously would have been difficult to decentralize, or weren't viable to decentralize. I look forward to sharing the case study with you and others, thank you for prompting the idea....though do bear with me on time as like I said, this is not something that will take a few minures, it will take quite a few hours of focus (to say the least) to put something solid and actionable together.

Huh?

I'm pretty sure this has already been the topic of at least one thread before, and the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you say or I say or if the majority of members think this forum ought to be centralized--we don't own it, period.  Nor is it as if you've got so much invested in bitcointalk that it would affect you a great deal if it were somehow decentralized.  You're still a Jr. Member after registering in 2019.

Oh that new forum software....I've been hearing about that since I became a member (I think).  I would be interested to see how a decentralized discussion forum worked, having never seen one before, but that being said I don't think OP made anything close to a coherent argument as to why bitcointalk should head in that direction.

I am genuinely interested to see how that case study turns out and find out more.  (Im not being sarcastic)

Just wanted to mention too that some truly decentralized forums already exist - Freenet's been around for over a decade or so, for example.  But it is still sucks big time to actually use.  and hardly anyone actually bothers with it anyway.  People just dont want taking responsibility for moderating stuff themselves.  And you need a ton more bandwidth and drive space compared to regular old client-server setups.  So Id definitely be curious to check out your ideas for a more user-friendly, lightweight version that doesnt dump so much on the end user.

There is a big difference between knowing the technical intricacies of a technology (thus knowing whether something is possible or not) and actually developing it. For example, one might know how a Bitcoin node works and what it is capable of down to each of its functions, but that doesn't mean that they can build each of these functions into an application if they were to try. However, you are right, once I do go ahead and build the case study then the next step may as well be to push for the development of the software itself. Unfortunately, unlike Bitcointalk, I do not have an ample amount of bitcoins to fund this. Nor do I have enough time at my disposal to allocate to the project part time.

Also, since the project is likely to be open source, I would doubt that there'd be "good money" involved, unless a business model was built in as well...though that is another element on top of the goal to build a more decentralized forum application. Nonetheless we'll see what happens when the case study is done down the line.

Then, set up the demo forum, decentralized and with access to the general public, via the .com/.org domain. And present it to the public.

I believe that, if Bitcointalk does not migrate to this service, you will be able to sell it with some ease and make good money.

What are we measuring when we talk about weight? When we say "light" I am speaking about the end-user's experience. It will take more resources to power a decentralized network, however that burden does not have to be on the end user, nor does it need to be on the codebase that powers the discussed decentralized forum. In addition to that, if we strictly stay on the topic of Bitcointalk, then there should technically be resources available to cater for costs and to build solutions around complexities, that's what the new forum fund was for. Though, this is another topic.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume my knowledge on decentralized networks Stalker22...as cryptosize said...


...which I had presumed before my last post. I will be back with viable solutions as of the current period, once I have enough time to make my own case study which I will post in the new forum software forum, and reference here for you both. What it will prove is that a forum software that is scalable, light in codebase and light for the end-user to use, is possible.

This will not be an overnight writeup, I also have little free time to allocate to new things generally, so allow the natural time it will take for me to complete this and bear in mind that I'm doing it for not much more than to prove a point, and because Stalker22 has just insulted my intelligence in a way that requires an effort like this to disprove.

If feedback was listened to in the forum by administration and there was a chance that it was heard, listened to and potentially used to build upon the new forum software idea, I'd be much more motivated, though I am sure we can all agree that would be ignorant to assume.

I'll be back when it's done.

Decentralized systems undoubtedly carry more "weight" than centralized ones.  Replicating data across nodes, running consensus algorithms, coordinating distributed components - it all adds complexity. Perhaps we could develop nimbler decentralized protocols but we should not expect a decentralized system to ever match centralized efficiency. 

Ultimately, it is misleading to claim that decentralized systems can be "lighter," or even as lightweight as centralized, and the two approaches feature fundamentally different trade-offs.  We choose between them according to the requirements of each application.  For some, decentralization provides indispensable security properties, despite the costs and complexities.  For others, centralization's simplicity and speed take priority.  Blanket comparisons seldom account for those nuances, and BenCodie clearly does not know much about the technical aspects of decentralized networks, or it is possible that he is simply misinformed.

I want a decentralized forum more than you, but I'm not going to claim that a decentralized solution (whether it's for a forum or payments) is going to be lighter compared to centralized solutions. I'm afraid you don't understand the technicalities involved.

The burden of proof lies on you...

This seems a very interesting idea but can you be more specific? How would the posting and decrypting to read part of the forum work?

Actually, I'm not misunderstanding anything, I am the only one who is trying to stay on-topic by relating the conversation back to what is meant to be discussed:
Should Bitcointalk be decentralized.

I did not introduce payment systems into the conversation, cryptosize did, and the relevance to building a decentralized forum application vs. a decentralized payment protocol are two completely different conversations.

If you actually look at the root of the conversation, I was not the first to draw comparisons to Bitcoin, and it was wrong to do so in the first place. Decentralizing Bitcointalk is not the same as building a decentralized payment protocol. Payment protocols have no relevance to forum software, period.

I maintain that it is possible to build a lightweight forum software that is decentralized. I maintain that decentralizing the forum's software and governance has not enough correlation to building a similar architecture to that of Bitcoin, due to both serving completely different purposes, and therefore is off-topic conversation.

I also disagree that a decentralized network can not be lighter than that of a centralized one for the end user. We are in a new world of new possibilities as of 2023 and onward, as we are every year, and stating that decentralized networks can definitely not be lighter than that of a centralized network is an outdated opinion. No one is saying it's an easy feet, however if we take into account the amount of resources that Bitcointalk (should) have to achieve this feet, then it is definitely a possibility rather than it definitely not being possible.

Yeah, a decentralized network has to have many working nodes that can be anywhere in the world in order to perform the functions that they are designed to perform but in a distributed network there's a central node that controls the rest of the nodes and that's why it's way energy efficient than a decentralized network.

The main benefit of decentralized network is that if one node somehow fails working then others will do the job without any issues but the problem with such system is the energy consumption as it mainly consumes way more energy than a distributed network. If I'm not wrong then in a distributed network if main node stops working then other notes may not be able to perform its job.

I think you may be misunderstanding the point. He mentioned Bitcoin as an example of a sufficiently decentralized network compared to other payment networks. He is correct, though. A decentralized network can never be "lighter" than a centralized infrastructure. Why else do you think the entire internet is built on a simple client-server basis? The concept of decentralized networks wasnt invented yesterday, you know?  And you are probably confusing the concepts of a decentralized network with a distributed network, which can be "lighter" with proper load balancing.


[https://blockchainengineer.com/centralized-vs-decentralized-vs-distributed-network/]

Feel free to add reason referring to modern technologies if you really want to add weight to your opinion and if you want to continue this discussion, I will then use my knowledge to elaborate on my opinion. Otherwise, all you have done with that post is provide a biased "final say".

A centralized forum will always be more lightweight, just like centralized payment systems (ECB, PayPal etc.)

I am not talking about BTC, which was a decentralized protocol that had its initial infrastructure built in 2008-2009. There's no point talking about Bitcoin as a modern decentralized application and at that, it is not even a decentralized application, it is an entire blockchain, built on an infrastructure that is not relevant to what we are talking about, being a forum application with more decentralization than what is current.

So to answer your question, no, I do not believe that BTC is lighter than other solutions because I am already aware that there are many more solutions that are much more efficient.

Payments was never a topic here. Using technology similar to that of Bitcoin to decentralize Bitcointalk was never a discussion here until you introduced it. Why people are thinking that we need to use technology similar to Bitcoin to power a decentralized version of this forum is beyond me, as the two are not even closely similar in their core use cases.

Here is a quick shower thought.  Maybe this has been asked before however.

Is there a possibility to build a simplistic Decentralized Forum on top of the Bitcoin Network?  Or something that can be included in Bitcoin Core / Electrum and work in conjunction with Bitcoin?

Do you honestly believe that BTC is lighter compared to ECB SEPA payments (Target2 ledger)?

BTC has to broadcast the transaction to every node, while ECB uses a single centralized computer to process the transaction.

We don't use BTC because it's lighter or cheaper. Revolut offers SEPA instant payments for €0, while BTC is way more expensive and slower: https://mempool.space/

As mentioned before, it is a question that keeps being thought of but has not yet (to my knowledge) been definitely answered: Will we ever see it get off the ground? The amount of funds that were donated for the forum and probably still sit unused/unspent should have funded one of the best innovative forums but for reasons not explained it was never completed.

Ya at this point, its more less dead may as well just call it vaporware, I did notice the donate button is gone but its likely been gone for an epoch and I just noticed haha, and the green coin members

Well there is a hidden page rofl Tradefortress and a few others saved in there for memories sake the forum has self sustaining money so it could have executed the upgrade.
https://bitcointalk.org/donate.html

I disbelieve in this. As I said in my post, moderation in line with rules that are governed in a decentralized way will enable a clean, compliant and censorship-free forum. There is a difference between following rules and censoring the right to freedom of speech. If there was no difference, then we are censoring all discussion not related to the boards that are within this forum. I believe mixing censorship, spam prevention and rule compliance is not the way to look at things if decentralizing bitcointalk becomes a goal.


The method you're talking about reminds me of zeronet, an outdated solution. Bittorrent also dated and not a viable way to run a forum in a decentralized way. There are modern solutions out there in web3, and while using those technologies might not be in line with Bitcoin, one could argue that a centralized forum isn't either (if anything, it's worse than employing non-bitcoin technologies).


Votes or governance being sold is unfortunately, a part of life. If people care about the forum, they will not sell their voting power. If people were incentivized to keep their power, they will. There are solutions to prevent power being sold. In addition, if forum governance is value (which it inevitably would be since we're talking about bitcointalk here, the biggest bitcoin forum there is) then the appreciation of that value is an incentive in itself to keep governance power.

I don't think many would sell all of their governance power, especially since it represents the forum which Satoshi himself resided on.


I think you're analyzing too hard. At least in my view, beating the current centralized SMF forum and adding decentralized components that removes liability from administration, enables accessibility for all, creates decentralized governance, while delivering content efficiently, are some of the goals that would prove more viable than "complete decentralization that is even better than Bitcoin". We don't need to beat Bitcoin's decentralization to do better than the current structure, in fact it's probably best not to look at it this way for the sake of keeping the forum as usable as it currently is.

I think it doesn't scale well. Spammers will be unlimited, and even if there's a system in place to vote out spammers, new users will never get through if spammers create millions of new accounts per day. If you accept users on invite-only basis, new users have the same problem.

A truely decentralized forum won't have any centralized hosting. There could be nodes, but each user would keep their own copy, and broadcast it to other users like bittorrent.

Bitcoin tried, by basing voting power on CPU power. That didn't last very long. And even if there would be a magical protocol that gives one human one vote, votes would simply get sold.

After the IFD (Initial Forum Download), all each user needs to do is download all new posts. That's currently only 4 posts per minute. And each user (on average) will have to upload each post to another user (in a decentralized way, like bittorrent). That's actually the beauty of a decentralized system: bandwidth scales very well. If one person shares 1 GB on a server, each download consumes 1 GB bandwidth. But if he shares the same file through bittorrent, he doesn't have to spend much bandwidth anymore because every downloader starts uploading too.

Look, we are in an internet forum and don't know each other personally. Our texts represent who we are. Someone could be a very good person in real life, but due to some misunderstanding, the community may think he is a terrible person. So, we should be careful with our screen and think about what we writing. Someone might have a different point of view. But, they should not insult others until their opinion is very unpopular or harms others.

I was surprised how he reacted to OP's post even though there was nothing offensive in the OP. He just called out OP as Joker, and then he also reacted to your post when you said "Shame on you". If you cannot take criticism, you are unlikely to learn. I would suggest he should recognize that he is a human being and he might make some mistakes, too.

The code itself determines how efficient content is delivered. For a user, the lightness and efficiency of the code determines how fast a site loads. In terms of traffic handling on the provider side, this also comes down to code

Generally, decentralized applications are lighter in weight...how well they handle their traffic depends on how well they are coded. I believe bitcointalk could be recoded into a platform that is decentralized, that can handle large amounts of traffic and is governed in a decentralized way (described in next part of this post)

This is an opinion anyway....


I was talking more about if the forum were to be decentralized. I wouldn't call any democracy decentralized, since there'd be so many powerful entities aiming at manipulating apparent democratic systems for their interests.

Decentralization isn't a 1/0, there are scales as to how decentralized something is. However, BitcoinTalk has a high potential for decentralization, if done correctly. For example, if a governance token was released that airdropped 1 token based on a variety of factors, like trust, posts, merits, etc, then you'd have a system where yes, not everyone will be equal, however there will be a lot of people governing and contributing, therefore a good level of decentralization will be achieved.

Equal voting power is not good governance. Good governance is where those who earned (not bought) their say have the reflected value of their say to begin with. If they sell that say to someone else, that's the free market, though that should come after distributing power to those who earned it.

That's my opinion anyway, good governance is still something that to this day, no one has perfected.

I'm afraid you don't understand the fact that a forum has WAY MORE traffic compared to a decentralized payment system exchanging a few numbers here and there.

So no, it's not going to be more lightweight, quite the contrary!

The situation with the new forum became untenable (notably the endless waiting) therefore I unwatched the thread and gave up reading about expect for very rare forays in that thread. Looking back, it really is strange that with all the donations that were given and what the value of those donations is today the new forum was never completed.

I have not checked but I have noted other members to my knowledge have not mentioned the beta website, it is probably safe to presume it is at a standstill.

Two things to comment.

- Governments strive to censor all sort of speeches all the time, and they are elected by the majority most of the time. So no. Not only it is technically censorship, but it is almost a common phenomenon that happens to minorities.
- There has never been a truly decentralized protocol where each user can have equal voting power.

It is extremely ironic. I find it surprising (and not) that no one came to put him in line, especially since so many other members have been quick to do that to others in sometimes unnecessary circumstances in the past.

Nature will teach him the lessons that he needs to learn anyway. At least the true colors have been shown by that user


Does bitcointalk really need to be a museum?

Yes, it hosts artifacts of the first steps and the evolution of Bitcoin and its community...though is it really necessary for us to fall behind the bleeding edge just because innovation is lacking throughout administration and the community?

That would be a sad crack for this forum to slip in. Its history should motivate us, in my opinion anyway.


I believe that a decentralized forum wouldn't necessarily be determined by bandwidth or internet speed. A good solution should be more lightweight, if anything.


Decentralized means to not be controlled by a single party or group, as BitcoinTalk is.

There is a viable way to achieve decentralized hosting of the front end, back end and databases. The most efficient and viable way for the forum is what will take research, though it is possible with great minds doing the research and work required to achieve the goal.

An official goal will bring solutions. Attitudes like what we see vastly in this thread will not.


Rules govern what is allowed and what is not...if members agree to those rules and have a form of governance power over these rules through voting, then moderation should only be to enforce those rules that the majority of the community already agrees on, posts removed in line with that technically wouldn't be censorship, posts removed for other purposes would be.


It's also a little childish to tell an individual to take their idea and do go and do it themselves. BitcoinTalk and its administration have the resources, they did raise a lot of Bitcoin to build new forum software after all....

Censorship is not a huge problem now, though it could be later...if nations decide to take a leaf out of China's book and build a firewall around websites, that would be the next stage for censorship...if nations started regulating what communities people could join, prosecuted them based on what they say, forced tracking and reporting, or anything of the likes (all possible) then a centralized forum like BitcoinTalk would have to adapt (for better or for worse).

Decentralizing is taking liability away from administration and distributing it across very user. It's not an unreasonable idea.

Cough, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=167.0
One day maybe we will get new forum software

To quote a classic joke
When Epochtalk?

Cough

It's Ironic how he called out OP just because he wanted Decentralized Bitcointalk (which is not a bad idea) and then how he reacted just because you said shame on you. LOL. People always think from their side but do not try to think what if I were him? He can call someone Joker which he considers as his opinion, but when you say shame on you, it's not an opinion but it shows who you are. LOL.

You should stop replying to such a person who gets offended too much by such words and are unable to understand what could be their mistake. Some people always think they are right. They don't want to accept their mistakes and this is one of the reasons Ratimov fucked up himself.

I'm pretty sure you can still collect your pension(s) if you move to another country... If you become an "outlaw", that may change, of course.


This is true.

As I like to mention, at its base, the forum is now a historical museum for those who want to learn more about the beginnings of Bitcoin. It is also a repository for information on older altcoins. For example, this is the birthplace of Ethereum. Then on top of all that we have a huge layer of spam -- a positive byproduct of this is it has solidified Bitcointalk as an SEO powerhouse... years upon years of posts with specific terms frequently puts this site at the top of Google search results. Probably how it gets most of its non-user traffic.

I reckon we can have a decent decentralized forum protocol if FTTH (100 Mbps upload) becomes the baseline.

With ADSL (1 Mbps upload) it's not really possible... ADSL is fine for BTC, that's why Satoshi released it in 2009 (when ADSL was already becoming the norm).

This is a very apt question.
Very thoughtful indeed.
Let's assume that bitcoin is banned and declared dead all over the world. What do you think will happen to bitcointalk? Maybe, theymos will lose interest and hand over the admin to another person and that person might likely rename the domain and allow the forum to continue existing because of the people therein.
It could also be that, if bitcoin is banned, that will be the end of this forum.

Meanwhile, bitcoin cannot be banned but bitcointalk can. That is why theymos is being careful. Talking about decentralization of the forum. If this eventually happens, how will the moderation of the forum look like. Just thinking

Hey I am married and depend on 3 US fed gov pensions.

So moving to El Salvador to run a mirror image of this forum is not in the cards for me.

We would need a single person to do it.

I am not sure what country you would want the mirror backup to be in.

What would it cost in time and money to do.

Also a mirror image means two point of attack to hack.

So yeah it is not that practical.


Lastly bitcointalk was the startup forum for btc. It did a good job. It is no longer the influencer that it once was.

I think it's funny when they talk about forum decentralization. 
The point here is: what do you mean by decentralized? Without an administration? "Decentralized" hosting?

If it comes to hosting, whoever comes, there is still no minimally viable way to achieve this dream of decentralized hosting.

Start with the domain. Where can you get the decentralized .com or .org domain?
Are they going to say it’s the ENS service (.eth pseudodomains)!?

This continues to have a centralized service behind it. And in turn, it is not practical to access the forum this way. The forum was created to be a point of information about Bitcoin, accessible to the entire world. Not with the hurdles of additional configurations that people have to do.

And I'm not even going to talk about hosting... because in the end there always has to be someone behind the scenes managing the server.

People need to realize that it is pointless to have freedom of speech without moderation to some degree. Moderation != censorship. Freedom of speech endorses the controversial, but not the violating. You cannot fill the board with giant links to scam sites and expect to be protected. It is not hate speech to "censor" this kind of behavior, it is simply a necessary measure one must take to allow the speech of everyone else.

Go ahead and make your own decentralized forum, there is nothing preventing you to do that, and see how it goes for you.
You cant just expect that magical decentralization would fix all the problem in the world like censorship, it is childish to think like that.
I am not even sure most of the people would enjoy non-censored bitcointalk forum, and they wouldn't like to live in world without any censorship, it's just a pipe dream.

I've never ever seen someone on this forum pick out the first 10 words of a post and respond to nothing else.

I am completely fine with being on your ignore list simply because you are uneducated - you clearly have no idea what decentralizing the forum means on a technical level, and yet you are so confident in judging others, like calling the OP a joker and then making such a large post just because I said, "shame on you" for calling the OP a joker.

Good luck to you and your forum journey. Keep up that attitude and you're bound to make a lot of friends

It's also worth to mention creating spam post become far easier since there's no risk account ban and IP blacklist.

I don't think it's possible but the only way a forum can be decentralized is if it is a darknet on the dark web. And Theymos' has said that Bitcointalk is not a darknet so how can it be on the dark web?

Every web hosting company is owned by somebody or a company, and every decision of that web company is made by that person or company instead of a peer-to-peer system, so it's no longer decentralized

I think Theymos did that as a precaution to be safe from all those centralized organizations. The mixers could be hit by the governmental organizations anytime and someone like Theymos who always thinks about the betterment of this forum would never want the users to face any problems that may arise because of the mixers or advertising of the mixers.

I believe no governmental organization directly contacted Theymos to remove mixer's campaigns from this forum, it was just a precautionary decision to protect the forum and its users from all those things that can happen in future. Two of the mixers that were advertising on this forum got seized by the governmental authorities and who knows which mixer is next in the list.

I'm not saying that the rest of the mixers are doing anything shady but I believe the decision was taken as precautionary action to stop from the damages that can happen in future. The other forum and its admin is aware of this thing but still those mixers aren't the ones who did wrong and that's why he's willing allowing those mixers to advertise on that forum.

Banning bitcointalk is not affecting the Bitcoin network in any way. Sure, it's the digital museum of Bitcoin, but enthusiasts can already migrate elsewhere.

Decentralizing a forum is not proved sustainable. Scaling is a nightmare, works more complexly, moderation is minimum if not zero (which is pretty much the same as here), and will probably incentivize users to use a third party. I have used nostr, which is a decentralized social network like Twitter, and it's even worse than Twitter.

And BTW, bitcointalk is not scheduled to be banned.

Sometimes you only get told what they want you to hear - I'm not saying theymos is lying, but when you have no way of checking facts, you believe whatever they tell you at your own risk.

Some information is labelled "classified," and you don't dare to reveal the source.

Decentralization still lack adoption

Theymos did not ask it, government did not ask theymos to do it.

Theymos only asked forum staffs to stop advertising mixers through signature campaigns after the CM break down.

Given that this forum is located on a server in the US, do you believe that one day when China becomes a "dominant superpower" (whatever that means) that same China will conquer the US and ban this forum?

China has already had internet censorship for a long time, as has Russia, where this forum is banned - but that in itself speaks volumes about them as countries that are actually regressing in terms of human rights, regardless of the theory about some kind of superpowers. At the moment, decentralization would only be possible if the forum were moved to a server located in a country like North Korea, but let's ask what would happen only then, not only in the sense that the forum would come under general surveillance, but that the privacy and security of all forum members would be threatened, unless you think you can be completely anonymous online?

When did this happen?



Yeah, they are so afraid of it they are pissing their pants...of joy!
They are going to ban a forum in which payments are going to be made soon in USDT because of the fees and campaign are already paying in in $ denominated value not Bitcoin. This forum is the complete opposite of what you're envision, if it does one thing is spreading the dollar as everything discuss here is in $ value!

There is no need to decentralize the forum, everything is fine the way it is, after all, we need someone to manage all of this, or what do you think it would be like? It would be a total mess, right?

You just never know! When you're under the government's thumb, each decision has an impact on you. You, of all people, should be aware of this. Whoever feeds you has authority over you.

It's nearly 2024, brother- How do you feel about becoming a troll bot? Isn't it past time for a change?

This is an odd and bold statement from a traitor, after all you above all should know this is not true, no government agency asked this forum to stop facilitating the advertisement of mixers, as a moderator of altcoinhack forum you should know this.
Unless your garbage forum and it's KYC verified admin is not hosted in US and the admin is not actually KYC verified as stated on his profile, which makes him a liar. And one has to wonder as to why they hired you as a moderator without doing any background checks on you. I guess they were too desperate and as soon as they saw you are a DT here, they thought it's the best move to make. While they have no idea that you have zero influence here, at least they didn't count on me to be active around these woods. Only if I manage to figure out who the admin is over there. None of you traitors will be safe here then.

I don't think its a terrible idea necessarily but it would likely result in a slower, more cumbersome experience, with the potential for bad actors to ruin its historical legacy. I prefer the idea of leaving the forum exactly as the way it was during the time of satoshi. When visitors come here to read satoshi's old posts, I can't help but think they'd want to read them in an environment/layout that was exactly the same way as it was when he wrote them.

We are living inside a historical museum; we should treat it and regard it as such.

You started off on the wrong foot with no awareness of Decentralization, and someone pointed it out to you, only for you to drop the bomb and add him to your ignored list?

Decentralized forums allow individuals authority over their own data. The forum is presently hosted on a centralized server, which gives theymos less control over the data. The government decides what they want to see. (already asked the forum not to advertise mixers).

Decentralized hosting entails hosting our webfile on multiple nodes, which is too costly, this is another reason why web owners prefer to keep it on a centralised server.

I agree that a decentralized forum may work for the ones who prefer privacy and want to do whatever they want to do but I'm more than sure it's not going to be possible. Even many websites that tried to do that were known to be as fail experiments and that's why the web system may not go decentralized if you want to maintain a good balance of things.

Bitcoin is decentralized because it's not control by a single person or a group of people but a forum or a website in general is controlled by a person or a group of people and we can't change that thing. Ah, maybe we can change that when we have someone like Satoshi who create Robots and implement decentralization theory in them and then make them work as humans but that would be a more controversial and out of topic, and Science fiction thing than a part of reality.

Censorship like banning mixers would not happen under decentralize bitcointalk.org. Bitcointalk.org is not truly free until it is decentralize.  We are at the mercy of big nations. We are like a naked girl bending waiting to be ######.

Bitcoin has been accepted in the world. There is no sign that bitcoin would be banned. I can only see more adoption. See United States SEC now that wants to approve bitcoin spot ETF. Nobody will also ban this forum, but what I do not like about this forum recently is the censorship that will start in January 1, 2024, but it is still for the good and progress of the forum.

@OP, the reason as to why Bitcoin will never be banned worldwide is because us Bitcoiners are more dangerous without Bitcoin, while as long as we are happy and friendly with having Bitcoin, which means by having it, we'd have a seat around the table of big guns in the world, and as soon as they take away our seat, we will destroy the table. So either they play along, or there will be no game for them to play either.

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So there is no need to decentralize this forum, now that they know who they are dealing with.

I have promised to maintain my cool on the forum henceforth, so I will let this annoying attitude of yours pass. Alts are not difficult to know.

For your information, I don't have any reason to read your lamentation anymore since your first statement has condemned you and shown who you are. I know your silly type, it is never worth my time.

Calling out shame in a strong term because someone expresses his opinion shows how trolling and immature you are. But I am not the type that you express your ignoble attitude towards you this immature brat. Nonetheless, I return your shame back to you and your generation in multiple folds.

Welcome to my ignore list...The very first since I joined this forum!

Shame on you for calling the OP for having a perfectly valid argument....If BitcoinTalk could be decentralized, it should be. It'd be good for theymos to take forum responsibility off his back, and it'd be in line with what Bitcoin is all about, no central control. In fact, this forum being centralized is contradictory, and ironic.

The forum is nearly at a state where it works perfectly. Merits, Default Trust, all of these functions are serving their purposes and are improving. While not perfect, governance by the community in a decentralized way is more than possible at this point and these functions can work if they were coded into a decentralized infrastructure. It might not be able to be decentralized today, but I would say that if this became a goal, it would potentially be a viable one that could be built rather quickly given all the groundwork that is making this forum work today.


Who is saying to make this forum more exclusive, or like a secret society? If anything, it being decentralized will make it more accessible, and more censorship resistant.

If the forum was decentralized, it'd be up to users to be lawful and rules could still be enforced via decentralized governance and built-in moderation powers. Moderators would be voted on by the community, and power levels would be too. Just because it would be decentralized, it doesn't mean there would be no governance.

If it is not available yet. We can create it. Don't tell me it is impossible.


I'm not talking about China now. But talking about China when it will become the most dominant Superpower. China is bound to overtake USA somewhere in 2027 -2030.

Instead of only mention the decentralized hosting and decentralized domain name system, you should recommend which the web hosting and the DNS you refer to, I don't think that's possible. Mirror site won't solve, you're only play hide and seek until they discovered all the websites related to Bitcoin. The only way is run the site in darknet instead of clearnet, if Bitcoin is completely got banned in anywhere.

China completely ban Bitcoin since 2021, why Bitcoin and this forum wasn't get banned since 2021?

I do not see a good reason why Bitcointalk should be decentralized. Wait a minute, is there anything like that when it comes to forums? Do you mean that there will not be a host or third party for the security of the forum? Even the admin will have to surrender their power and accesses?

Well, you are a joker, and in a situation like this, you see a lot of advice to the extent that those who don't fit to advise you will start advising you. Satoshi was not foolish to have made Bitcoin decentralized but the forum centralised with .org, so let it be.

This is a community, we share vital and clear information, not a secret society. What are we even running from? The forum is not lawless and I believe that the admin will continue to abide by the rule of law where applicable. So I don't see how we can be decentralised and why we should even be decentralised as it is of no use.

They try to ban bitcoin but they cannot ban bitcoin but they can ban bitcointalk.org. If they want to ban bitcoin they will also ban bitcointalk, exchanges and blogs that supports bitcoin.

It is for Bitcoin as its main use. When Bitcoin created by Satoshi Nakamoto, there were not many altcoins like now. There were some few altcoins before Bitcoin creation but Bitcoin success made developers think they can build up successful altcoin projects and they created many altcoins like we have now.

Do you know any decentralized server hosting service?

If Bitcoin is banned, dead, do we need Bitcointalk?

China failed to ban Bitcoin and they will not succeed.

Bitcointalk is a forum for a decentralize money bitcoin and other cryptos. I believe bitcointalk should be hosted on decentralize hosting and decentralize domain name or there should be a back up or mirror site for bitcointalk. We don't know the future they could ban bitcoin and also ban bitcointalk.org and other websites that supports bitcoin. USA getting desperate with de dollarization or  Somewhere in the future china (2027-2030) will be the most dominant superpower would ban / sanction bitcoin.

Jack Mazzoni Ph.D.