First of all solar works in some spots not others.
Same with wind. the 24/7 concept is simply wrong as a grid tie in with the local power company makes solar 24/7.
I agree with the grid tie-in argument. However, the local power generated is more than likely not renewable, since it would have to account for the off-peak times of wind and solar.
Five year plans are worthless.
Please see my previous argument about why a 5-year plan is not worthless. In a nutshell, liquidity from a security token design will work well to mitigate any concerns about infrastructure development timelines.
When Buysolar and I deployed a 100kwatt array then a 300 kwatt array we were mining in under 6 months.
I congratulate you on deploying solar renewable energy infrastructure. I am all for it. It is going to be increasingly difficult however to have a 100% renewable energy infrastructure to meet the hopefully growing mining energy demands, and I believe now is the time to begin thinking critically about how this is going to look like in the future, and how we can integrate crypto energy demands as a net positive in the fight against climate change.
We are now working on a 500kwatt to 1 megawatt setup that if we start it will will be using it earlier then Nov 1st 2019
Please keep me posted on your progress!
Going geothermal sounds nice but to be real it needs to be up and running quickly.
Thanks, and please do not forget about scalability. In the "5-year plan" that is continuously mentioned, a geothermal plant of this nature would be 10 MW + with a lifetime of over 30 years. This is an invest into renewable energy infrastructue for the future, supported by crypto, but has scalability larger than mining
Topic: Decentralized Power Plants (Read 209 times)
1. This just seems like another pipe dream ICO selling garbage tokens that wont ever be worth anything. (it makes it that much funnier that you quote gigawatts failures, as they failed after having an ICO like you are trying). Sorry if you dont like it but the facts are ICOs are a scam and they just don't work. We have years of data to prove this now.
I actually thank you for this comment, as I am sure other people have similar concerns.
a.) When did I ever mention having an ICO? We do not plan on issuing an ICO. You mention that they are scams. I am not far from agreeing with you. What I am proposing is much more similar to a "Security Token Offering". There is a vast difference. Security tokens are based off selling equity in a project, meaning that participants in such offerings have direct asset based liquidity in their holdings.
b.) You are correct. We have years of data proving that this does not appear to work well. However, what it did prove is that vast amounts of capital can be transferred easily to fund the development of novel projects. If done correctly, the 'token offerings' could be a great benefit to build renewable energy infrastructure for cryptocurrency mining, which could have many societal benefits (we cite hydrogen production for clean fuel) down the line.
2. I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of how this industry works. No one in their right mind would give you money on the promise of a power station when you wont even have a prototype operational for another 5 years. This industry moves WAY TOO FAST for something like this to have any value. In 5 years the whole landscape could change rendering this obsolete.
a.) The 5-year timeline would be more or less valid for a project completed from start to finish. 4-years would be the average for such a project, and it is more like 2 years if the geothermal reservoir is already identified (if the site is already operational).
b.) I understand that the industry moves fast. I think there is a miscommunication in what you believe we are proposing, as referenced to your statement about the 'ICO'. This is an ASSET based project. You are not simply buying power for cryptocurrency mining, but rather owning the powerplant asset. What is beautiful about this, is that even if we take your example about the 5-year use case (let's assume this is correct), and cryptocurrency completely crashes, you OWN a fraction of the power plant as a security. Power can be used in various different ways (data servers, material refinement, clean fuel production ...) and is a market that will continue to grow with time.
3. 4 cent power is easily obtainable in bulk if you understand the US energy market. There really isn't much value to your proposition when the result is already available.
a.) Again, the argument is owning vs. renting. When you get 4 cents power, I assume you purchase it correct? What if you owned the infrastructure that produced the 4 cents power?
b.) I think your missing the infrastructure development piece of the proposal. I have no doubt that you can simply go to a location that perhaps sells renewable power cheaply, but this doesn't necessarily stimulate the growth for large scale adoption of renewable energy.
4. The reason mines center around places like the pacific northwest is because that is where the renewable energy already is. I run a 20mw facility powered fully by hydroelectric power. People in industrial nations outside of China are VERY RARELY running on fossil fuels, so touting this as a cleaner alternative when the vast majority is already powered by renewable sources doesn't really give you many advantages.
a.) I am a huge fan of hydroelectric, or any other base load renewable generation technology. Understood about the argument for most mining coming from renewable energy. Question for you, how much new renewable energy infrastructure is being built for cryptocurrency mining? My argument is to use cryptocurrency mining to stimulate renewable energy creation, not renewable energy adoption. There is a difference here.
5. 2.5 million per megawatt to install instantly makes this a no go for miners. With the depressed market prices, people are in survival mode. Nobody is going to spend millions and wait 5 years as most will be out of business by then.
This is one of the biggest hurdles we had when designing the model. Of course high capital costs, plus a long project development plan, makes this look unnattractive. Here is our solution for how to get around it:
1.) Re-define the miner. To be frank sir, this is not a traditional mining project. We are not trying to say "Here everybody, we have cheap power, come buy from us and mine!" What we are talking about is a truly decentralized mining operation. No targeted mining group, just a power plant producing power and generating revenue. The power plant is the money maker, not the individual, and while we highly suggesting mining, the power can in theory be used for any energy consumer.
2.) Security Token. Let's pretend that it will take the power plant 5-years to be developed. We are currently on year 1, and trying to convince people why they would ever participate in something that "takes 5-years". The solution is to not have it make the token liquid. Exchanges like t-zero now allow you to freely trade security tokens like stock. We will:
a.) Issue the security token (ownership of power plant) at a discounted rate (lower than powerplant net worth)
b.) Have the token be freely tradable on the open market (you don't have to wait 5-years to trade it)
c.) Benefit from renewable energy incentives (carbon offsets, tax reductions for capital installation), which will greatly increase the economics of the project.
Feel free to continue to raise any concerns you might have, and I will try my best to mitigate them.
-P
I actually thank you for this comment, as I am sure other people have similar concerns.
a.) When did I ever mention having an ICO? We do not plan on issuing an ICO. You mention that they are scams. I am not far from agreeing with you. What I am proposing is much more similar to a "Security Token Offering". There is a vast difference. Security tokens are based off selling equity in a project, meaning that participants in such offerings have direct asset based liquidity in their holdings.
b.) You are correct. We have years of data proving that this does not appear to work well. However, what it did prove is that vast amounts of capital can be transferred easily to fund the development of novel projects. If done correctly, the 'token offerings' could be a great benefit to build renewable energy infrastructure for cryptocurrency mining, which could have many societal benefits (we cite hydrogen production for clean fuel) down the line.
2. I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of how this industry works. No one in their right mind would give you money on the promise of a power station when you wont even have a prototype operational for another 5 years. This industry moves WAY TOO FAST for something like this to have any value. In 5 years the whole landscape could change rendering this obsolete.
a.) The 5-year timeline would be more or less valid for a project completed from start to finish. 4-years would be the average for such a project, and it is more like 2 years if the geothermal reservoir is already identified (if the site is already operational).
b.) I understand that the industry moves fast. I think there is a miscommunication in what you believe we are proposing, as referenced to your statement about the 'ICO'. This is an ASSET based project. You are not simply buying power for cryptocurrency mining, but rather owning the powerplant asset. What is beautiful about this, is that even if we take your example about the 5-year use case (let's assume this is correct), and cryptocurrency completely crashes, you OWN a fraction of the power plant as a security. Power can be used in various different ways (data servers, material refinement, clean fuel production ...) and is a market that will continue to grow with time.
3. 4 cent power is easily obtainable in bulk if you understand the US energy market. There really isn't much value to your proposition when the result is already available.
a.) Again, the argument is owning vs. renting. When you get 4 cents power, I assume you purchase it correct? What if you owned the infrastructure that produced the 4 cents power?
b.) I think your missing the infrastructure development piece of the proposal. I have no doubt that you can simply go to a location that perhaps sells renewable power cheaply, but this doesn't necessarily stimulate the growth for large scale adoption of renewable energy.
4. The reason mines center around places like the pacific northwest is because that is where the renewable energy already is. I run a 20mw facility powered fully by hydroelectric power. People in industrial nations outside of China are VERY RARELY running on fossil fuels, so touting this as a cleaner alternative when the vast majority is already powered by renewable sources doesn't really give you many advantages.
a.) I am a huge fan of hydroelectric, or any other base load renewable generation technology. Understood about the argument for most mining coming from renewable energy. Question for you, how much new renewable energy infrastructure is being built for cryptocurrency mining? My argument is to use cryptocurrency mining to stimulate renewable energy creation, not renewable energy adoption. There is a difference here.
5. 2.5 million per megawatt to install instantly makes this a no go for miners. With the depressed market prices, people are in survival mode. Nobody is going to spend millions and wait 5 years as most will be out of business by then.
This is one of the biggest hurdles we had when designing the model. Of course high capital costs, plus a long project development plan, makes this look unnattractive. Here is our solution for how to get around it:
1.) Re-define the miner. To be frank sir, this is not a traditional mining project. We are not trying to say "Here everybody, we have cheap power, come buy from us and mine!" What we are talking about is a truly decentralized mining operation. No targeted mining group, just a power plant producing power and generating revenue. The power plant is the money maker, not the individual, and while we highly suggesting mining, the power can in theory be used for any energy consumer.
2.) Security Token. Let's pretend that it will take the power plant 5-years to be developed. We are currently on year 1, and trying to convince people why they would ever participate in something that "takes 5-years". The solution is to not have it make the token liquid. Exchanges like t-zero now allow you to freely trade security tokens like stock. We will:
a.) Issue the security token (ownership of power plant) at a discounted rate (lower than powerplant net worth)
b.) Have the token be freely tradable on the open market (you don't have to wait 5-years to trade it)
c.) Benefit from renewable energy incentives (carbon offsets, tax reductions for capital installation), which will greatly increase the economics of the project.
Feel free to continue to raise any concerns you might have, and I will try my best to mitigate them.
-P
First of all solar works in some spots not others.
Same with wind. the 24/7 concept is simply wrong as a grid tie in with the local power company makes solar 24/7.
Five year plans are worthless.
When Buysolar and I deployed a 100kwatt array then a 300 kwatt array we were mining in under 6 months.
We are now working on a 500kwatt to 1 megawatt setup that if we start it will will be using it earlier then Nov 1st 2019
Going geothermal sounds nice but to be real it needs to be up and running quickly.
Same with wind. the 24/7 concept is simply wrong as a grid tie in with the local power company makes solar 24/7.
Five year plans are worthless.
When Buysolar and I deployed a 100kwatt array then a 300 kwatt array we were mining in under 6 months.
We are now working on a 500kwatt to 1 megawatt setup that if we start it will will be using it earlier then Nov 1st 2019
Going geothermal sounds nice but to be real it needs to be up and running quickly.
1. This just seems like another pipe dream ICO selling garbage tokens that wont ever be worth anything. (it makes it that much funnier that you quote gigawatts failures, as they failed after having an ICO like you are trying). Sorry if you dont like it but the facts are ICOs are a scam and they just dont work. We have years of data to prove this now.
2. I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of how this industry works. No one in their right mind would give you money on the promise of a power station when you wont even have a prototype operational for another 5 years. This industry moves WAY TOO FAST for something like this to have any value. In 5 years the whole landscape could change rendering this obsolete.
3. 4 cent power is easily obtainable in bulk if you understand the US energy market. There really isnt much value to your proposition when the result is already available.
4. The reason mines center around places like the pacific northwest is because that is where the renewable energy already is. I run a 20mw facility powered fully by hydroelectric power. People in industrial nations outside of China are VERY RARELY running on fossil fuels, so touting this as a cleaner alternative when the vast majority is already powered by renewable sources doesnt really give you many advantages.
5. 2.5 million per megawatt to install instantly makes this a no go for miners. With the depressed market prices, people are in survival mode. Nobody is going to spend millions and wait 5 years as most will be out of business by then.
2. I think you might be missing a fundamental understanding of how this industry works. No one in their right mind would give you money on the promise of a power station when you wont even have a prototype operational for another 5 years. This industry moves WAY TOO FAST for something like this to have any value. In 5 years the whole landscape could change rendering this obsolete.
3. 4 cent power is easily obtainable in bulk if you understand the US energy market. There really isnt much value to your proposition when the result is already available.
4. The reason mines center around places like the pacific northwest is because that is where the renewable energy already is. I run a 20mw facility powered fully by hydroelectric power. People in industrial nations outside of China are VERY RARELY running on fossil fuels, so touting this as a cleaner alternative when the vast majority is already powered by renewable sources doesnt really give you many advantages.
5. 2.5 million per megawatt to install instantly makes this a no go for miners. With the depressed market prices, people are in survival mode. Nobody is going to spend millions and wait 5 years as most will be out of business by then.
Here is a response we recently gave on the concept:
Hello Derrick,
Thank you for your question. The U.S. Department of Energy has a good source here showing the land use of geothermal compared to other power plants:
https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/geothermal-power-plants-minimizing-land-use-and-impact
To summarize land use by acre:
a.) Geothermal: 1-8 acres per megawatt (MW)
b.) Nuclear: 5-10 acres per MW
c.) Coal: 19 acres per MW
Geothermal is not only renewable, but it also has one of the smallest surface footprints of all power generation technologies.
To give you an estimate on the installed cost of a power plant, the DOE traditionally uses approximately $2500 per installed kW in the U.S.
Therefore, a 1 MW Geothermal Power Plant will cost approximately $2.5 Million to install.
However, geothermal can produce electricity 24/7, at a high capacity factor (>90%), and has one of the lowest LCOE of all power generation technologies.
This means that so much power can be generated from a geothermal power plant, that it justifies the high upfront capital costs. However, these high upfront capital costs are why development of geothermal infrastructure has stalled, and why we are trying to get many investors in developing a “decentralized” model for geothermal power plant installation.
We will use this opportunity to clarify the offering. Right now, we are simply raising money by selling equity in our company. Your shares will increase in value as the company evaluation increases.
If you invest in the power plant development (the future security token offering), then yes, you will receive part of the Bitcoin mined. We plan on fully decentralizing ownership of the power plant by utilizing an asset-based token model. Here is an example:
If you invest and own 10% of the power plant, you will receive 10% of the profit (bitcoin mined) from the power plant.
You will also own 10% of the power plant, which you can trade to other investors on alternative token exchanges. Thus, you get back what you paid for the token, plus the additional profit from the mining operation.
It is the same argument as Renting vs. Buying a home.
Currently Bitcoin miners try to find the cheapest electricity possible for their mining operations but have no ownership of the mining infrastructure.
The model we have developed will allow individuals to own the mining infrastructure (power plants), make money from the cryptocurrency mining process, and sell their ownership at any time. Our company will generate revenue by taking a small percentage ownership (< 5%) of each power plant developed. We will also be involved with the operation and maintenance of each facility.
We believe this is the first time this decentralized power plant ownership model has been proposed.
Hello Derrick,
Thank you for your question. The U.S. Department of Energy has a good source here showing the land use of geothermal compared to other power plants:
https://www.energy.gov/eere/geothermal/geothermal-power-plants-minimizing-land-use-and-impact
To summarize land use by acre:
a.) Geothermal: 1-8 acres per megawatt (MW)
b.) Nuclear: 5-10 acres per MW
c.) Coal: 19 acres per MW
Geothermal is not only renewable, but it also has one of the smallest surface footprints of all power generation technologies.
To give you an estimate on the installed cost of a power plant, the DOE traditionally uses approximately $2500 per installed kW in the U.S.
Therefore, a 1 MW Geothermal Power Plant will cost approximately $2.5 Million to install.
However, geothermal can produce electricity 24/7, at a high capacity factor (>90%), and has one of the lowest LCOE of all power generation technologies.
This means that so much power can be generated from a geothermal power plant, that it justifies the high upfront capital costs. However, these high upfront capital costs are why development of geothermal infrastructure has stalled, and why we are trying to get many investors in developing a “decentralized” model for geothermal power plant installation.
We will use this opportunity to clarify the offering. Right now, we are simply raising money by selling equity in our company. Your shares will increase in value as the company evaluation increases.
If you invest in the power plant development (the future security token offering), then yes, you will receive part of the Bitcoin mined. We plan on fully decentralizing ownership of the power plant by utilizing an asset-based token model. Here is an example:
If you invest and own 10% of the power plant, you will receive 10% of the profit (bitcoin mined) from the power plant.
You will also own 10% of the power plant, which you can trade to other investors on alternative token exchanges. Thus, you get back what you paid for the token, plus the additional profit from the mining operation.
It is the same argument as Renting vs. Buying a home.
Currently Bitcoin miners try to find the cheapest electricity possible for their mining operations but have no ownership of the mining infrastructure.
The model we have developed will allow individuals to own the mining infrastructure (power plants), make money from the cryptocurrency mining process, and sell their ownership at any time. Our company will generate revenue by taking a small percentage ownership (< 5%) of each power plant developed. We will also be involved with the operation and maintenance of each facility.
We believe this is the first time this decentralized power plant ownership model has been proposed.
Yes,
What I am talking about is using "proof-of-work" energy demands to develop renewable energy infrastructure for cryptocurrency mining.
The concept isn't very new, and companies like GigaWatt and now CryptoSolarTech have tried, but failed.
The reason these companies failed, is because they failed to realize that the "intermittent" renewable energy resources of wind and solar can not provide the energy needed to economically mine bitcoin.
For Example:
If you have a S9 running for 24 hours of the day, you would need electricity for 24 hours, every day.
Wind can not do this.
Solar can not do this.
At least not without energy storage (large-scale batteries)... however battery technologies are sill very expensive, and makes those projects un-economical once you account for storage.
I am suggesting we build BASELOAD Renewable Energy infrastructure for these projects.
It will make the mining more economical/ actually make sense.
-P
What I am talking about is using "proof-of-work" energy demands to develop renewable energy infrastructure for cryptocurrency mining.
The concept isn't very new, and companies like GigaWatt and now CryptoSolarTech have tried, but failed.
The reason these companies failed, is because they failed to realize that the "intermittent" renewable energy resources of wind and solar can not provide the energy needed to economically mine bitcoin.
For Example:
If you have a S9 running for 24 hours of the day, you would need electricity for 24 hours, every day.
Wind can not do this.
Solar can not do this.
At least not without energy storage (large-scale batteries)... however battery technologies are sill very expensive, and makes those projects un-economical once you account for storage.
I am suggesting we build BASELOAD Renewable Energy infrastructure for these projects.
It will make the mining more economical/ actually make sense.
-P
Hi there,
I am curious about how the community feels about the decentralization of power infrastructure for Bitcoin mining?
I am currently developing a concept to develop renewable energy infrastructure, in particular geothermal due to the 24/7 power supply, for cryptocurrency mining.
The concept page is here:
https://www.edengeopower.com/
Please provide any feedback, and let me know if you are having trouble loading the video... it's pretty large.
-P
I am curious about how the community feels about the decentralization of power infrastructure for Bitcoin mining?
I am currently developing a concept to develop renewable energy infrastructure, in particular geothermal due to the 24/7 power supply, for cryptocurrency mining.
The concept page is here:
https://www.edengeopower.com/
Please provide any feedback, and let me know if you are having trouble loading the video... it's pretty large.
-P
Jump to: