Topic: Declaring over $10k worth of cryptocurrency when flying (Read 3468 times)

I don’t have any idea what does airport regulation is referring to,, if worth 10000$ is it hard paper money?? or even a digital or virtual??.. The same way does a atm holder person will declare its money on security purposes or those only physical one.. Maybe I need to learn more about this.. It really needs some time to study much about our law that defines cryptocurrency prohibition and restrictions.. But I don’t know how or where to start,, if the law about bitcoin is still not even been pass or drafted..

You are not right. To Deposit cash in the customs Declaration you need. I can't say in all countries there is such a rule or not but I know many countries where this rule is. If you don't then you've confiscate currency. But this only applies to cash. On the credit card you can take out any amount. So I don't see the point to use for customs clearance of bitcoins

There are no such laws yet

Most likely, that's the way it is. Crypto currency at the border crossing is not necessary. In any case, your duties should be stipulated clearly in the customs regulations. Without this, there can be no additional duties.

don't bother:bitcoin is,in most cases,grey area in the country you are travelling to
even in the US there are no unified rules and the laws vary from state to state
so trying to declare your coins would be akin to sending a letter to IRS if you find a 100$ bill on the street-more headache than you bargained for
they would not know what to do with that
besides,technically,you do not "own" bitcoins,you have rights to transfer them around
so just relax and fly and try not to think about a possible full cavity search 

LOL look at all those blatant multiple account posts right there, totally not the same person

Think about it this way: you have $10k in cryptocurrency, but you also have debit cards and credit cards. Thos all have limits, but the government isn't going to make you declare those.

Nope! No need to declare something that you're not carrying. Digital assets FTW 

I agree. It's not on me, so I'm not going to declare it.

I don't think the airports/countries consider crypto as some you'd have to declare because it's a digital asset. Bu tone day they might

Even if they tried doing it, they can't. Can you imagine trying to explain crypto to a TSA agent? lol 

One day the machines TSA has will be able to scan for hard wallets lol.

Yea, I agree. virtual assets you don't have to declare. Unless you're cashing out $10k.

What a good question. How would you declare it? Unless you're carrying a cold wallet, right? But then, that means the government would have to know what one of those looks like in luggage...

As far as I am concerned I do not have any bitcoin "on" me while flying. I will not be declaring it.

I do not really see any reason in this..it is my sincere hope that government regulation does not stifle innovation.

Ok, I'm not sure which country you are flying into or out of, so I'm going to use US and Canada because I know this one. You need to look at the legal definitions of what you need to declare when they ask for currency and monetary instruments.

I have included definitions and links below, but neither the US or Canada under the current legal definitions would require the claim.

Even if they did, the worst they can do is seize your physical wallet, and since you should have a backup and you won't need to provide them the password you can just restore.

United States : https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/fin105_cmir.pdf

Currency:  The coin and paper money of the United States or any other country that is (1) designated as legal tender and that  (2) circulates and (3) is customarily accepted as a medium of exchange in the country of issuance.

Monetary Instruments— (1) Coin or currency of the United States or of any other country, (2) traveler’s checks in any form, (3) negotiable instruments (including checks, promissory notes, and money orders) in bearer form, endorsed without restriction, made out to a fictitious payee, or otherwise in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery, (4) incomplete instruments (including checks, promissory notes, and money orders) that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted, and (5) securities or stock in bearer form or otherwise in such form that title thereto passes upon delivery. Monetary instruments do not include (i) checks or money orders made payable to the order of a named person which have not been endorsed or which bear restrictive endorsemenst, (ii) warehouse receipts, or (iii) bills of lading.


Canada :  http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/forms-formulaires/e677-eng.html

Definitions
"Currency"
means current coins and bank notes issued by the Bank of Canada and coins and banks notes in the currency of countries other than Canada.

"Monetary Instruments"
means (a) securities, including stocks, bonds, debentures and treasury bills, in bearer form or in such other form as title to them passes upon delivery; and (b) negotiable instruments in bearer form, including banker's drafts, cheques, traveller's cheques and money orders, other than
(i) warehouse receipts or bills of lading, and
(ii) negotiable instruments that bear restrictive endorsements or a stamp for the purposes of clearing or are made payable to a named person and have not been endorsed.

I got an idea. Why not carry a coin purse with some symbolic bitcoins? They can say bitcoin on them. See what they say when you show them to them. 

I cant really see the sense in this...but some laws too are meaningless

Like when the tsa claim to have seen some bitcoins in a mans bag? XD Technically it's not on me, it's everywhere, so why would I claim anything?

I wouldn't, I pay enough taxes to the authorities as it is, why should I declare assets that the authorities don't even know exist? As it is, many airport authorities have know idea what bitcoin is anyway, how would they calculate the tax?

And would you declare your youtube account that's making a couple thousand $ a month, or a brand name that you own, or royalties?

To answer your question, yes, I would declare it in my yearly tax report, had it brought me any profits in that year.
No, I wouldn't declare it before boarding the plane. They don't want to know about all your assets, just valuables you're carrying with you like cash, jewelry, expensive art pieces. If it was otherwise we'd be forced to report all the cash we got on our bank account and how much our internet business has made recently.

Excellent analogy.

To my own understanding, I don’t really think anyone should be declaring anything about crypto currency. It says if you’re entering any country with $10k worth of fiat/cash, you should declare it. Let’s assume I have over $10k worth of crypto, and I decide to be making withdrawal with crypto debit card, do you think it has anything to do with anyone ?

No it doesn’t. It’s the same as having over $10k worth of money in MasterCard, and traveling with just my card.It has nothing to do with anyone, so you shouldn’t be declaring it.

Government can get so paranoid that they can sometimes forget to take up some common sense. Digital currencies can not be seen, touched nor smelled so what is the purpose of that to be declared? Having to declare when one is carrying a certain amount of fiat money is understandable but cryptocurrencies?

That is absolute non-sense. And yes, how would they know that you are involved with Bitcoin and that you have 1,000 Bitcoin hidden somewhere in your online wallet or even a physical wallet? People can be so freaking freak...and it is getting to be more common place these days...sadly!

This. On the one hand if you leave it completely alone, its a non issue as they have absolutely no idea that you even have bitcoin. But if you have a paper or hardware wallet in your stuff, you would be liable in the few places where bitcoin is actually illegal (NK, right?) or at least possibly subject yourself to a lot of bullshit. Look at the US for example, and the heightened travel vetting requirements. As difficult as is is now for some nationalities/locales to travel here, imagine the misery of having to explain whats on your paper/hardware wallet. It would be lax of them not to inquire about it once the are aware; you could be trying to launder money.

They are checking phones at the borders now here, so an app wallet might get you equally detained

I agree. The customs officer to whom you are declaring stuff might only get confused if you talk about cryptocurrencies. Moreover, there is no way they can prevent you from entering a country with your private keys.

No, you are not moving assets.

What might happen is that you have to report bitcoin transactions above a threshold. Like all foreign bank transfers over certain thresholds get auto-reported by banks.

Would you declare a $50,000 domain name if you had the password for for registrar account? That's a virtual asset as well.

Don't declare anything. At the same time, don't have any paper wallets, hardware wallets, or bitcoins on your computer in your checked bag.

Well not unless you want to declare btc as your source of income and you are a minor or unemployed. Others kinds of visas i think is ok but being a minor or unemployed and your are making big profits in btc and you want to go to other country, it is likely questionable by the police on where you are getting your money. So i guess just show your wallet and talk somethings about btc may decrease time of delays.

Yes. They dont have value until you spend/convert them, so you dont have to declare something you don't actually have. This would be akin to declaring your stock portfolio; its just as liquidable in certain markets as crypto. I often wonder about the inverse of this; I am considering relocating and maintaining dual citizenship, but the majority of my worth is in crypto holdings. How do I declare my virtual worth to countries that require a minimum asset threshold (say you need a job and x capital to repatriate to certain countries)? I dont think they would be so understanding if I declared my "virtual" holdings, and I'll be damned if I have to convert all this to fiat (and suffer conversion fees) just to make my wealth evident.

Essentially, it seems the best course of action concerning this is to just shut up. Causes more headache than it prevents.

Yes, I don't believe that you need to do so at all as it is all virtual.

Perhaps, in the future- when more start to use BTC.

Your bitcoins don't travel with you. They only exist in cyberspace.
You can access your coins from both countries (departed and arrived). Ultimately what matters is how they touch the fiat value chain.

With more than 10k in cash.
Nobody is checking your debit cards or credit cards.
Nobody is checking your banking account.

Furthermore every country advises you to have your money in a bank account not cash on your person.
Bitcoin acts like virtual money.

Besides, technically speaking bitcoins aren't in your wallet.

There's no way I'd bother. In this day and age if I were flying into America I would probably delete any wallet and bury the seed in an obscure file just in case. There's lots of potential for misunderstandings and ball ache if they do get a sniff. Those TSA people aren't the brightest.

I can imagine they will come out with a firm policy some day. It'll also be laughable and a breeze to route around.

Yes, it is indicated. Not in all airports, though. Cash, jewellery, and the like. I could have taken a picture, but I didn't want to get noticed, and waste time.

I agree.

If you declare it's actually worse for you, because you never know whose eyes will be upon you. They may search your luggage to check if you're not a terrorist heading off to finance a sleeper cell It sounds funny, but authorities have their own procedures and like to follow the scent of money, because if you're taking it with you it implies you're planning to pay for an item or service. If you wanted to pay for something legal you would have used cash or wired the money instead of taking it in the form of cryptocurrency. That's their stupid way of thinking!

Don't declare. They have no right to check your phone or computer, so they will never know what you're carrying.

Similar to the password to your bank account with a zillion dollars, you are crossing borders with a key that gives you access to fiat currency,  but no currency or currency instrument is on your person. But good question.

Also I think the IRS doesn't treat bitcoin like a currency?

I'm sure at airports I see signs saying "currencies" but it doesn't mention about anything it having to be physical.

Then again, thinking about it in more detail you are not taking Bitcoin across the border, Bitcoin is stored on the blockchain forever and doesn't move anywhere. It's only the private key you have stored that you are taking with you when you cross borders.

Don't.

If you don't have to declare your bank balance, you don't have to declare Bitcoin. They are not on your person anymore than your bank account that you might have your number to. I'm not saying if you get caught with a private address that's just written down that someone might get their panties in a bind but... It makes zero sense. There is no reason to comply so long as you don't have a blatant private key written down.

Cryptocurrencies are another matter. What you must declare are banknotes, traveler's checks, gold coins... Anything physical. The future will probably assimilate cryptos to money in the bank, but so far there isn't a single word about BTC in customs regulations.

In the past it would not be necessary because to my understanding, it would mean because the law does not acknowledge it, it does not exist but in about some weeks ago, there was a proposed law by the US law makers to make it mandatory to disclose. If it pass, then there is a mandatory obligation to disclose such information and even at the embassy. A quick check on the law makes it so which has been interpreted to make the environment more hostile to the users of crypto-currency.

At any airport around the world it's quite normal that if you are departing or entering a country with more than $10k currency, you have to declare it.

Do peeps declare their cryptocurrency when they are travelling? All these peeps walking around with over $10k in cryptocurrency on a physical hard wallet or a soft wallet on their computers are leaving/entering the country with currency. Wonder what would happen if they didn't declare it and were found out...