Author

Topic: Democracy (Read 169 times)

member
Activity: 110
Merit: 19
September 03, 2021, 02:56:22 AM
#20
This always happens in Africa, the government deceives  the people and the world that they are running a democracy government why they aren't, there's no freedom of speech, they don't run a free and fair election, their force her  citizens to do what they like.

I assure you - this happens all around the world, not just in Africa. Politicians just pee to the people everywhere, but somewhere they try harder to persuade people it is a rain. But the smell is the same. That is the essence of government - there are just different tools to achieve the same.

newbie
Activity: 21
Merit: 4
September 03, 2021, 02:38:16 AM
#19
This always happens in Africa, the government deceives  the people and the world that they are running a democracy government why they aren't, there's no freedom of speech, they don't run a free and fair election, their force her  citizens to do what they like.
member
Activity: 110
Merit: 19
September 02, 2021, 06:30:27 AM
#18
This would resolve into a society where there are no laws, which is simply government by the richest/strongest/most powerful. Give capitalism free rein without the democratic element, and you end up with an entrenched elite running monopolies and cartels, and everyone else doing as they are told, and with no prospect of this ever changing.

Democracy isn't perfect at all, but it does provide at least an element of accountability for those at the top.

I think that generally I agree with you. BUT... We have capitalism with democratic elements, so everything should be fine... But it isn't. Our democratic governments are goverments of richest/strongest/most powerful. There are elites running monopolies and cartels. And no, there are not any element of accountability for those who rules. Well technically maybe there are, but it doesn't work. It cannot work, because same people who rules also decides about this element of accountability. We can say all this in simplier way - separation of government powers is one big failure... And then democracy as a whole is failure too.




Even the people who vote for the leaders has no right to ask about the leader's activity until their ruling period ends so democracy is just a form of temporary dictatorship but its better than compared to living in a non-democratic country.

I totally agrre with this. Problem is, how can we distinguish what is and what is not a democracy? Where democracy ends and totality begins?



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
legendary
Activity: 1932
Merit: 2354
The Alliance Of Bitcointalk Translators - ENG>SPA
September 01, 2021, 05:07:21 PM
#17
One of my favorite Bitcoin related quotes on the subject of Democracy is this...

Democracy: The original 51% attack.

The problem with democracy is that as a whole human beings aren't too bright when making decisions that effect everyone.  I think Agent K said it best in Men In Black.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
- Agent K

After all my childhood watching MiB, and not having seen it again in decades, last weekend I saw it by chance; this sentence, which didn't make much sense back then, ringed in my head this time. It reminds me of the theory underlying Ortega y Gasset's Revolt of the Masses, maybe because in the Spanish version I saw Agent K said literally "Masses" instead of "People".

Democracy as an ideal form of government is almost flawless. Aristocracy, as another ideal form, as a real rule of the best, is flawless too. The problem is that humans are imperfect, as you said.

We'll always have utopia.
donator
Activity: 4760
Merit: 4323
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
September 01, 2021, 04:30:42 PM
#16
One of my favorite Bitcoin related quotes on the subject of Democracy is this...

Democracy: The original 51% attack.

The problem with democracy is that as a whole human beings aren't too bright when making decisions that effect everyone.  I think Agent K said it best in Men In Black.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
- Agent K
legendary
Activity: 2828
Merit: 1515
September 01, 2021, 03:25:20 PM
#15
The way forward is self-governance which comes naturally for Bitcoiners anyway.
Be owns bank and politician at the same time. King of the castle and not the clerk or sweeper.

Okay, but how does this work in a society? An individual is not isolated, they exist in relation to other individuals, around and among other individuals. Each individual has their own ideas and their own desires.
You can't have a situation where everyone is in total control of everything that affects them, but where, simultaneously, people interact with one another.

This would resolve into a society where there are no laws, which is simply government by the richest/strongest/most powerful. Give capitalism free rein without the democratic element, and you end up with an entrenched elite running monopolies and cartels, and everyone else doing as they are told, and with no prospect of this ever changing.

Democracy isn't perfect at all, but it does provide at least an element of accountability for those at the top.
What is you argument that Bitcoin does not work and only large central Banks can function? I am well aware for none Bitcoiners it is hard to get the head around.
Self-governance is nothing else as decentralized individual governance with all sorts of contracts/partnerships/cooperations....
Govenment in its current form is nothing else as Mob rule.

You can still be pro-centralization for government and anti-centralization for the economy.

Think of it as laissez faire economics but to an extreme level.

Sure, many Bitcoiners are pro-decentralization, limited to an economic perspective.

While intertwined, there serves some purpose for government centralization. That is, when looking at traditional governments. Cronyism is what you might be referring to.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
September 01, 2021, 01:08:49 PM
#14
Self-governance is nothing else as decentralized individual governance with all sorts of contracts/partnerships/cooperations....

If it's truly fully decentralized, you don't need contracts since there is not going to be the judicial branch of the government to enforce them anyway. Just get the biggest weapon you can afford.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277
September 01, 2021, 01:03:15 PM
#13
What is you argument that Bitcoin does not work and only large central Banks can function? I am well aware for none Bitcoiners it is hard to get the head around.
A new level of absurdity, which is really saying something. You can't just make stuff up like that. Of course I've never argued that bitcoin doesn't work, why would I? Bitcoin is a great idea. Also, why would a member of this forum be a "none Bitcoiner"?

You miss the point of my post quite spectacularly; whether deliberately or not, who can say?
full member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 146
September 01, 2021, 11:08:36 AM
#12
why would anyone hand over guardenship of owns destiny to anyone and not steer it self in the right way.
Because people is afraid of responsibility and they are happy to let someone take it instead of them.

Democracy is also a myth in the real world because people who support the majority party will become the leaders while there are still people who vote against them which means they don't want them to be their leader but as per the laws whoever got most votes to become a leader there and literally they represent a presidential candidate.

Even the people who vote for the leaders has no right to ask about the leader's activity until their ruling period ends so democracy is just a form of temporary dictatorship but its better than compared to living in a non-democratic country.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
September 01, 2021, 11:01:48 AM
#11
The way forward is self-governance which comes naturally for Bitcoiners anyway.
Be owns bank and politician at the same time. King of the castle and not the clerk or sweeper.

Okay, but how does this work in a society? An individual is not isolated, they exist in relation to other individuals, around and among other individuals. Each individual has their own ideas and their own desires.
You can't have a situation where everyone is in total control of everything that affects them, but where, simultaneously, people interact with one another.

This would resolve into a society where there are no laws, which is simply government by the richest/strongest/most powerful. Give capitalism free rein without the democratic element, and you end up with an entrenched elite running monopolies and cartels, and everyone else doing as they are told, and with no prospect of this ever changing.

Democracy isn't perfect at all, but it does provide at least an element of accountability for those at the top.
What is you argument that Bitcoin does not work and only large central Banks can function? I am well aware for none Bitcoiners it is hard to get the head around.
Self-governance is nothing else as decentralized individual governance with all sorts of contracts/partnerships/cooperations....
Govenment in its current form is nothing else as Mob rule.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277
September 01, 2021, 10:31:00 AM
#10
The way forward is self-governance which comes naturally for Bitcoiners anyway.
Be owns bank and politician at the same time. King of the castle and not the clerk or sweeper.

Okay, but how does this work in a society? An individual is not isolated, they exist in relation to other individuals, around and among other individuals. Each individual has their own ideas and their own desires.
You can't have a situation where everyone is in total control of everything that affects them, but where, simultaneously, people interact with one another.

This would resolve into a society where there are no laws, which is simply government by the richest/strongest/most powerful. Give capitalism free rein without the democratic element, and you end up with an entrenched elite running monopolies and cartels, and everyone else doing as they are told, and with no prospect of this ever changing.

Democracy isn't perfect at all, but it does provide at least an element of accountability for those at the top.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
September 01, 2021, 08:12:25 AM
#9
Democracy ............
     choose whom they like and is capable of leading them.......
govenment of the corruptest, both within the own party and the opposition
   why would anyone hand over guardenship of owns destiny to anyone and not steer it self in the right way.

That's what philosophers are saying. Why would anyone vote for someone and get to be elected as officials to run a government?
These voters should've knowledge of which is the right thing to do. If they repeatedly voted someone as the president of their country yet completely mess it up every time, then this kind of democrazy is not good.

You can't vote for a cook to become the captain of the ship all because all the people in the ship likes the food he cooks. A captain has to have experience being a seafarer that can command the crew.

Exactly, but worse. 
In order to bribe enough people the cook emptied the galley. Now for the rest of the journey everyone starves. If they ever arrive in planed destination in friendly surroundings is another matter.

The way forward is self-governance which comes naturally for Bitcoiners anyway.
Be owns bank and politician at the same time. King of the castle and not the clerk or sweeper.
member
Activity: 798
Merit: 34
September 01, 2021, 05:56:37 AM
#8
Democracy is still the best form of government. Common citizens still have that boldness to speak up. I know sometimes government intimidate citizens with power. But due to democracy  citizens still fight for there right
hero member
Activity: 2800
Merit: 595
https://www.betcoin.ag
September 01, 2021, 01:33:54 AM
#7
Democracy ............
     choose whom they like and is capable of leading them.......
govenment of the corruptest, both within the own party and the opposition
   why would anyone hand over guardenship of owns destiny to anyone and not steer it self in the right way.

That's what philosophers are saying. Why would anyone vote for someone and get to be elected as officials to run a government?
These voters should've knowledge of which is the right thing to do. If they repeatedly voted someone as the president of their country yet completely mess it up every time, then this kind of democrazy is not good.

You can't vote for a cook to become the captain of the ship all because all the people in the ship likes the food he cooks. A captain has to have experience being a seafarer that can command the crew.
member
Activity: 110
Merit: 19
September 01, 2021, 01:09:22 AM
#6
why would anyone hand over guardenship of owns destiny to anyone and not steer it self in the right way.
Because people is afraid of responsibility and they are happy to let someone take it instead of them.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
September 01, 2021, 12:58:44 AM
#5
Democracy ............
     choose whom they like and is capable of leading them.......
govenment of the corruptest, both within the own party and the opposition
   why would anyone hand over guardenship of owns destiny to anyone and not steer it self in the right way.
sr. member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 379
August 31, 2021, 10:53:21 PM
#4
Democracy meaning government of the people,for the people and by the people,is a government that believes in voting in people that are trusted,that will represent the masses.Democracy seem to be very good at some point,while it seems bad at some point.

It is good in the sense that it gives people the opportunity to choose whom they like and is capable of leading them,and also criticise whom they dislike,it also gives one the room to participate in political affairs.While it is bad in the sense that,the moment people are voted in,they make use of that opportunity to fulfill their selfish desire.The manifestos they made before being voted in,they fail to fulfill them in all ramifications,and cannot be removed from the office unless their tenure elapses.
legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
August 31, 2021, 11:13:30 AM
#3
In Democracy, the majority wins and foists their ideals on the minority(ies). The minority(ies) become slaves of majority thinking.

Then, in a big government, the majority gives their winning over to a small group to carry out their ideals. But the small group never does this satisfactorily, but rather, becomes a dictatorial group over everybody.

The reason you don't see dictatorial strength over the people in the USA is, even though the USA uses Democracy, at its base it is a republic that overrides the Democracy Dictatorship through the use of the 12-person jury.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1277
August 31, 2021, 08:00:06 AM
#2
Democracy is only really democracy to the extent that everyone's opinion is their own, to the extent that everyone who votes has carefully and impartially weighed the pros and cons and thoroughly reasoned it all out.
Of course in the real world, there are several issues with this. Sometimes people are lazy, sometimes they are stupid or ill-informed. It is easy for those with influence and money to subvert democracy by misleading the public and playing to voters' prejudices.

Democracy is by no means perfect, but the alternatives are all worse.
sr. member
Activity: 1190
Merit: 305
Pro financial, medical liberty
August 31, 2021, 04:04:04 AM
#1
Demo-cracy or is it "example of crazy" (Doing something different from what people agree on)

Voting for a nobody who then becomes a somebody to vote against you.


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